Khannouchi Out, There Goes U.S. Gold....

(Globaldisc) said:

Read on AP: Despite vowing five months ago that not even a broken leg would keep him from running,
Khalid Khannouchi has withdrawn from the 2004 U.S. Olympic marathon trials because of chronic foot
and knee injuries. The timing of the decision and the handling of its announcement are likely to
cause further discomfort to Khannouchi, who twice has set world records at the distance and is the
only U.S. runner capable of challenging the world's elite.

He wears nikes.

(Globaldisc) said:

Read on AP: Despite vowing five months ago that not even a broken leg would keep him from running,
Khalid Khannouchi has withdrawn from the 2004 U.S. Olympic marathon trials because of chronic foot
and knee injuries. The timing of the decision and the handling of its announcement are likely to
cause further discomfort to Khannouchi, who twice has set world records at the distance and is the
only U.S. runner capable of challenging the world's elite.

Nikes are for losers.

Andrew said:

Read on AP: Despite vowing five months ago that not even a broken leg would keep him from running,
Khalid Khannouchi has withdrawn from the 2004 U.S. Olympic marathon trials because of chronic foot
and knee injuries. The timing of the decision and the handling of its announcement are likely to
cause further discomfort to Khannouchi, who twice has set world records at the distance and is the
only U.S. runner capable of challenging the world's elite.

What's interesting here is his type of injuries and their apparent causes. There's been some
discussed here by Donovan and others about injuries from speedwork or speedwork without proper
preparation. KK has runners knee and a torn tendon between the first and second metatarsal, so,
speed aside, he'd fit right in with the people posting here about running injuries. From KK's
statement to the OT race director:

"For the last 8 months I have being dealing with chronic injury on my foot and my knee. I tried to
be careful about it and had much physiotherapy treatment during these last 8 months. I went to
Ireland to see Gerard Hartman and got good results. As a professional, I was worried about how much
time I would have to train for the Olympic Trials. I began training too fast too soon and this
mistake was causing the injuries to return...

Coming to fast into training was not an option. Fast speed training should be done after 6 weeks of
regular running and strengthening exercises."

I can already see Doug nodding in agreement. I personally probably do as much hard speed as anyone
here, but I don't go near a track for 6-8 weeks after a break: Nothing faster than steady state runs
and a weekly session of hill repeats. Even guys like Maurice Greene start with 6 weeks of general
exercises (no track at all) and when they do start at the track, they start at 70% speed.

I don't care who you are or how much "talent" you have, jumping into fast speed training without the
proper preparation is a recipe for disaster.

Lyndon "Speed Kills...It kills those that don't have it!" --US Olympic Track Coach Brooks Johnson

I'm sure the American viewers are going to be disappointed. All 8 of them.

He wears nikes. Losers wear nikes.

(Lyndon) said:

Andrew said:

Read on AP: Despite vowing five months ago that not even a broken leg would keep him from running,
Khalid Khannouchi has withdrawn from the 2004 U.S. Olympic marathon trials because of chronic foot
and knee injuries. The timing of the decision and the handling of its announcement are likely to
cause further discomfort to Khannouchi, who twice has set world records at the distance and is the
only U.S. runner capable of challenging the world's elite.

What's interesting here is his type of injuries and their apparent causes. There's been some
discussed here by Donovan and others about injuries from speedwork or speedwork without proper
preparation. KK has runners knee and a torn tendon between the first and second metatarsal, so,
speed aside, he'd fit right in with the people posting here about running injuries. From KK's
statement to the OT race director:

"For the last 8 months I have being dealing with chronic injury on my foot and my knee. I tried to
be careful about it and had much physiotherapy treatment during these last 8 months. I went to
Ireland to see Gerard Hartman and got good results. As a professional, I was worried about how much
time I would have to train for the Olympic Trials. I began training too fast too soon and this
mistake was causing the injuries to return...

Coming to fast into training was not an option. Fast speed training should be done after 6 weeks of
regular running and strengthening exercises."

I can already see Doug nodding in agreement. I personally probably do as much hard speed as anyone
here, but I don't go near a track for 6-8 weeks after a break: Nothing faster than steady state
runs and a weekly session of hill repeats. Even guys like Maurice Greene start with 6 weeks of
general exercises (no track at all) and when they do start at the track, they start at 70% speed.

I don't care who you are or how much "talent" you have, jumping into fast speed training without
the proper preparation is a recipe for disaster.

Lyndon "Speed Kills...It kills those that don't have it!" --US Olympic Track Coach Brooks Johnson

He wears nikes. Losers wear nikes.

(Lyndon) said:

Andrew said:

Read on AP: Despite vowing five months ago that not even a broken leg would keep him from running,
Khalid Khannouchi has withdrawn from the 2004 U.S. Olympic marathon trials because of chronic foot
and knee injuries. The timing of the decision and the handling of its announcement are likely to
cause further discomfort to Khannouchi, who twice has set world records at the distance and is the
only U.S. runner capable of challenging the world's elite.

What's interesting here is his type of injuries and their apparent causes. There's been some
discussed here by Donovan and others about injuries from speedwork or speedwork without proper
preparation. KK has runners knee and a torn tendon between the first and second metatarsal, so,
speed aside, he'd fit right in with the people posting here about running injuries. From KK's
statement to the OT race director:

"For the last 8 months I have being dealing with chronic injury on my foot and my knee. I tried to
be careful about it and had much physiotherapy treatment during these last 8 months. I went to
Ireland to see Gerard Hartman and got good results. As a professional, I was worried about how much
time I would have to train for the Olympic Trials. I began training too fast too soon and this
mistake was causing the injuries to return...

Coming to fast into training was not an option. Fast speed training should be done after 6 weeks of
regular running and strengthening exercises."

I can already see Doug nodding in agreement. I personally probably do as much hard speed as anyone
here, but I don't go near a track for 6-8 weeks after a break: Nothing faster than steady state
runs and a weekly session of hill repeats. Even guys like Maurice Greene start with 6 weeks of
general exercises (no track at all) and when they do start at the track, they start at 70% speed.

I don't care who you are or how much "talent" you have, jumping into fast speed training without
the proper preparation is a recipe for disaster.

Lyndon "Speed Kills...It kills those that don't have it!" --US Olympic Track Coach Brooks Johnson

i thought khannouchi wore new balance. "Tony Tornado" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

He wears nikes. Losers wear nikes.

(Lyndon) said:

Andrew said:

Read on AP: Despite vowing five months ago that not even a broken leg would keep him

from

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

running, Khalid Khannouchi has withdrawn from the 2004 U.S. Olympic

marathon

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

trials because of chronic foot and knee injuries. The timing of the

decision

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

and the handling of its announcement are likely to cause further

discomfort

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

to Khannouchi, who twice has set world records at the distance and is the

only

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

U.S. runner capable of challenging the world's elite.

What's interesting here is his type of injuries and their apparent

causes.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

There's been some discussed here by Donovan and others about injuries

from

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

speedwork or speedwork without proper preparation. KK has runners knee

and a

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

torn tendon between the first and second metatarsal, so, speed aside,

he'd fit

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

right in with the people posting here about running injuries. From KK's statement to the OT race
director:

"For the last 8 months I have being dealing with chronic injury on my

foot and

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

my knee. I tried to be careful about it and had much physiotherapy

treatment

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

during these last 8 months. I went to Ireland to see Gerard Hartman and

got

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

good results. As a professional, I was worried about how much time I

would have

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

to train for the Olympic Trials. I began training too fast too soon and

this

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

mistake was causing the injuries to return...

Coming to fast into training was not an option. Fast speed training

should be

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

done after 6 weeks of regular running and strengthening exercises."

I can already see Doug nodding in agreement. I personally probably do as

much

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

hard speed as anyone here, but I don't go near a track for 6-8 weeks

after a

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

break: Nothing faster than steady state runs and a weekly session of hill repeats. Even guys like
Maurice Greene start with 6 weeks of general

exercises

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

(no track at all) and when they do start at the track, they start at 70%

speed.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I don't care who you are or how much "talent" you have, jumping into fast

speed

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

training without the proper preparation is a recipe for disaster.

Lyndon "Speed Kills...It kills those that don't have it!" --US Olympic Track

Coach

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Brooks Johnson

i thought khannouchi wore new balance. "Tony Tornado" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

He wears nikes. Losers wear nikes.

(Lyndon) said:

Andrew said:

Read on AP: Despite vowing five months ago that not even a broken leg would keep him

from

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

running, Khalid Khannouchi has withdrawn from the 2004 U.S. Olympic

marathon

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

trials because of chronic foot and knee injuries. The timing of the

decision

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

and the handling of its announcement are likely to cause further

discomfort

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

to Khannouchi, who twice has set world records at the distance and is the

only

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

U.S. runner capable of challenging the world's elite.

What's interesting here is his type of injuries and their apparent

causes.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

There's been some discussed here by Donovan and others about injuries

from

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

speedwork or speedwork without proper preparation. KK has runners knee

and a

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

torn tendon between the first and second metatarsal, so, speed aside,

he'd fit

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

right in with the people posting here about running injuries. From KK's statement to the OT race
director:

"For the last 8 months I have being dealing with chronic injury on my

foot and

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

my knee. I tried to be careful about it and had much physiotherapy

treatment

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

during these last 8 months. I went to Ireland to see Gerard Hartman and

got

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

good results. As a professional, I was worried about how much time I

would have

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

to train for the Olympic Trials. I began training too fast too soon and

this

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

mistake was causing the injuries to return...

Coming to fast into training was not an option. Fast speed training

should be

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

done after 6 weeks of regular running and strengthening exercises."

I can already see Doug nodding in agreement. I personally probably do as

much

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

hard speed as anyone here, but I don't go near a track for 6-8 weeks

after a

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

break: Nothing faster than steady state runs and a weekly session of hill repeats. Even guys like
Maurice Greene start with 6 weeks of general

exercises

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

(no track at all) and when they do start at the track, they start at 70%

speed.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I don't care who you are or how much "talent" you have, jumping into fast

speed

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

training without the proper preparation is a recipe for disaster.

Lyndon "Speed Kills...It kills those that don't have it!" --US Olympic Track

Coach

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Brooks Johnson

He uses New Balance.

[email hidden] wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

(Globaldisc) said:

Read on AP: Despite vowing five months ago that not even a broken leg would keep him from
running, Khalid Khannouchi has withdrawn from the 2004 U.S. Olympic marathon trials because of
chronic foot and knee injuries. The timing of the decision and the handling of its announcement
are likely to cause further discomfort to Khannouchi, who twice has set world records at the
distance and is the only U.S. runner capable of challenging the world's elite.

He wears nikes.

[email hidden] (Miss Anne Thrope) wrote in message
news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

I'm sure the American viewers are going to be disappointed. All 8 of them.

That's a totally unfair statement. There's going to be at least 12 for sure. We'll likely send
three marathoners in each event. Each has a Father and Mother, so that's 12 right there. I'm sure a
couple have sisters, brothers, in-laws or whatever to make up for the possible single parent homes
and orphans.

Now the demographics may be bad for the sellers of the inevitable stream of tampon ads brought on by
the gymnastics coverage. A half dozen are likely men, and the women are probably post-menopausal,
but they'll at least buy some underwear from Hanes so the network will be all over it

You should know better than to sell the potential market short by a third.

In article <[email hidden]>,

(M1ahearn) said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

That's a totally unfair statement. There's going to be at least 12 for

sure. We'll likely send three marathoners in each event. <<

Only if the trials winner has an Olympic-qualifying time. We only sent one male and one
female marathoner to the 2000 games.

Wasn't thank because they made the trials Marathon a particularly hard one? I seem to recall some
complaints about how tough a race they made it.

--Harold Buck

"I used to rock and roll all night, and party every day. Then it was every other day. . . ."

- Homer J. Simpson

In article <[email hidden]>,

M1ahearn said:

The weather was uncooperative in both races, I think. The women's trial was in Columbia, South
Carolina in February and it got up to 70 degrees, I think. The men's was in Pittsburgh in May
and it was at least as warm. The South Carolina weather was a little unusual, I think, but the
Pittsburgh weather was not that atypical. Holding the race there was just a bad idea, in my
opinion.

If you going to have trials you arguably should do it under similar conditions to those expected at
the Olympics - and Sydney was about the same temparture for the marathons. The problem seems to me
more the US's selection rules resulting in people with A-qualifiers not being selected.

Andrew Taylor

In article <[email hidden]>,

(Andrew Taylor) said:

In article said:

The weather was uncooperative in both races, I think. The women's trial was in Columbia,
South Carolina in February and it got up to 70 degrees, I think. The men's was in Pittsburgh
in May and it was at least as warm. The South Carolina weather was a little unusual, I
think, but the Pittsburgh weather was not that atypical. Holding the race there was just a
bad idea, in my opinion.

If you going to have trials you arguably should do it under similar conditions to those expected
at the Olympics - and Sydney was about the same temparture for the marathons.

Well, it seems like the decision to only allow people to compete if they reach a certain qualifying
time seems to suggest that they run it in conditions favorable to fast times. Realistically, whoever
wins when it's hot will probably be in the top 3 in cooler conditions, and having 3 people on your
team gives you a better chance at having someone have a good day and earning a medal.

Quoted message said:

The problem seems to me more the US's selection rules resulting in people with A-qualifiers not
being selected.

Could you please explain what you mean by this? I'm not familiar with the selection rules.

--Harold Buck

"I used to rock and roll all night, and party every day. Then it was every other day. . . ."

- Homer J. Simpson

In article <[email hidden]>,

Harold Buck said:

Could you please explain what you mean by this? I'm not familiar with the selection rules.

A nation can send up to 3 athletes to the Olympic Marathon if they've all met the Olympic A standard
during the qualifying period or one athlete who has met the B standard.

The US automatically selects the winner of the trials marathon. If this winner has only met B
standard this precludes the US sending other athletes.

Andrew Taylor

Andrew Taylor said:

In article <[email hidden]>, Harold Buck

Quoted message said:

Could you please explain what you mean by this? I'm not familiar with the selection rules.

A nation can send up to 3 athletes to the Olympic Marathon if they've all met the Olympic A
standard during the qualifying period or one athlete who has met the B standard.

The US automatically selects the winner of the trials marathon. If this winner has only met B
standard this precludes the US sending other athletes.

Apparently there was a change in procedure a couple months before trials for this to be the final
way (and what caused a lot of unhappiness for the women):

"She [Johnston] complained that initially U.S. officials said all she would need was a qualifying
time, but then, only a couple of months ago, the final procedure was announced: Only the trials
winner would go to the Games if the winning time did not meet the standard." from
runnersworld.com2 26 00trials.htmlOpen ↗

I think I saw where the qualifying times have been changed for this year, but not sure and don't
remember where I read it - just something I bumped into while looking for something else.

Dot

--
"Success is different things to different people" -Bernd Heinrich in Racing the Antelope

Harold Buck said:

Quoted message said:

In article said:

The weather was uncooperative in both races, I think. The women's trial was in Columbia,
South Carolina in February and it got up to 70 degrees, I think. The men's was in
Pittsburgh in May and it was at least as warm. The South Carolina weather was a little
unusual, I think, but the Pittsburgh weather was not that atypical. Holding the race there
was just a bad idea, in my opinion.

---It was nearly 80F in Pittsburgh, which is a tough course to begin with. THis caused many of the
favorites to either drop out or run SLOW (ie 2:30ish) times.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

If you going to have trials you arguably should do it under similar conditions to those expected
at the Olympics - and Sydney was about the same temparture for the marathons.

---Well, it depends. Do you want one person going or 3? Selecting a hot qualifying race doesn'
necessarily mean you will select the person best able to handle those conditions, only that you
select the one best able to handle it on THAT DAY.

Quoted message said:

Well, it seems like the decision to only allow people to compete if they reach a certain
qualifying time seems to suggest that they run it in conditions favorable to fast times.
Realistically, whoever wins when it's hot will probably be in the top 3 in cooler conditions, and
having 3 people on your team gives you a better chance at having someone have a good day and
earning a medal.

---Ah, but this is the marathon and not the 10k. Someone who wins when it's hot will not necessarily
be top 3 when it's cool; a good number of top-3 caliber people bit the dust at Pittsbrugh in 2000.
We have one guy at 2:09 and about 5 more under or around 2:13...Any of these six could make up the
top 3, or someone with a PR of 2:14-2:15 (of which there are a dozen!) could step up in rough
conditions.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

The problem seems to me more the US's selection rules resulting in people with A-qualifiers not
being selected.

Quoted message said:

Could you please explain what you mean by this? I'm not familiar with the selection rules.

---The US uses a "reward the winner" system. This means that if you win the Trials, you
automatically go to the Olympics. If you are over the Olympic A standard at the Trials however (like
DeHaven in 2000), you are the ONLY person who gets to go. If the winner makes the Olympic "A"
standard, then the next two finishers who have the A standard (if even before the Trials) get to go
too. Andy Hass

Dot <dot.h@#att.net> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

I think I saw where the qualifying times have been changed for this year, but not sure and don't
remember where I read it - just something I bumped into while looking for something else.

Yes, the IAAF convened at the end of last month and changed the qualifying limits. In marathon the
bar was lowered quite a bit:

Men: A 2:12:00 - 2:15:00 B 2:14:30 - 2:18:00

Women: A 2:32:00 - 2:37:00 B 2:36:00 - 2:42:00

Anders

In article <[email hidden]>,

(Anders Lustig) said:

Yes, the IAAF convened at the end of last month and changed the qualifying limits. In marathon the
bar was lowered quite a bit:

Men: A 2:12:00 - 2:15:00 B 2:14:30 - 2:18:00

Women: A 2:32:00 - 2:37:00 B 2:36:00 - 2:42:00

What happens if you run less than 2:12?

[JK--I assume that the cutoff for A will be set at some sepcific point in that range.]

--Harold Buck

"I used to rock and roll all night, and party every day. Then it was every other day. . . ."

- Homer J. Simpson

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Men: A 2:12:00 - 2:15:00
B 2:14:30 - 2:18:00

Women: A 2:32:00 - 2:37:00 B 2:36:00 - 2:42:00

What happens if you run less than 2:12?

It appears to be confusingly presented, but here's what I think it means: The men's A standard was
changed to 2:15 from 2:12 and the B standard to 2:18 from 2:14:30. Similarly for the women.

--
Brian P. Baresch Fort Worth, Texas, USA Professional editing and proofreading

If you're going through hell, keep going. --Winston Churchill