Bike ban in Victoria

flyingdutch said:

cfsmtb said:

There's rumours/noises that BV didn't oppose the ban

Bollox. Ain't fourth hand info grand? 🙄
So unusual for the PTUA to swallow V-Line's, err, line 😉

We knew nothing of the V-Line ban.

Yes, but then it seems you rolled over pretty smartly, even swallowing
V-line's lie that not all trains have luggage space! Utter bollocks!

Quoted message said:

Holland, Germany and many other Euro countries have had similar rules
in place for a few years (some many years...) and provide good parking
at stations.

And they provide excellent long distance trains with plenty of bike
carriage space. German ICE trains half the whole half of the font carriage
for bikes, seperated by a glass/perspex partition from passenger seats. It
can be done, if their is a political will. Or doesn't BV care?

Not happy Jan.

--
Cheers
Peter

~~~ ~ _@
~~ ~ _- \,
~~ (*)/ (*)

PeteSig said:

flyingdutch said:

cfsmtb said:

There's rumours/noises that BV didn't oppose the ban

Bollox. Ain't fourth hand info grand? 🙄
So unusual for the PTUA to swallow V-Line's, err, line 😉

We knew nothing of the V-Line ban.

Yes, but then it seems you rolled over pretty smartly, even swallowing
V-line's lie that not all trains have luggage space! Utter bollocks!

Quoted message said:

Holland, Germany and many other Euro countries have had similar rules
in place for a few years (some many years...) and provide good parking
at stations.

And they provide excellent long distance trains with plenty of bike
carriage space. German ICE trains half the whole half of the font carriage
for bikes, seperated by a glass/perspex partition from passenger seats. It
can be done, if their is a political will. Or doesn't BV care?

Not happy Jan.

I am not happy either but I am not sure it fair to blame BV. It seems a
whole mind set in Australia that no politician wants to provide any real
infrastructure, after all it takes more than 3 years and does not get
one a seat on the MacQuarie W**nk board. I am a NSW resident but am a
member of BV just because I believe they have been the leading light in
getting some bicycle infrastructure in Australia.

Jack Russell

--
Remove norubbish to reply

flyingdutch said:

Bollox. Ain't fourth hand info grand? 🙄
So unusual for the PTUA to swallow V-Line's, err, line 😉

All right then, I'll follow this up with the PTUA again & duly inform them of your professional opinion of them. 🙂

cfsmtb said:

All right then, I'll follow this up with the PTUA again & duly inform them of your professional opinion of them. 🙂

The PTUA are taking comments re VLine's 'lines' ???

PS it's spelt 'MISinform'

The crazy thing is I've now called Vline Customer service twice (on
12th and today) and they still don't know anything about bikes being
banned on the Vline peak trains. Vline CS haven't even responded to my
first request for info over a week ago now, and I was assured I'd get
a reply within 7 days.

BV's response a week ago was that they had heard the rumour but
couldn't do anything about it - they suggested to CC them in on any
correspondence to VLine and they could then follow this up.

I've spoke to some of Conductors, and a number say they won't enforce
it, but some might. The bike/luggage bays on the new trains will be
empty for most of the day!

I have a 25min bike ride to work from the station (no public
transport) and I don't even have the option of keeping a bike at the
Station (St Albans) as there are only 6 lockers and they were snapped
up when built (people paid $75 and its permanently theirs until they
don't want it anymore).

And there are no early non peak trains in the morning - earliest I
could get to work is about 10:40am!

Time to write some objectionable letters/emails - Too bad Lynne Kosky
doesn't like being bothered unless it's important!

[email hidden said:

"]The crazy thing is I've now called Vline Customer service twice (on
12th and today) and they still don't know anything about bikes being
banned on the Vline peak trains. Vline CS haven't even responded to my
first request for info over a week ago now, and I was assured I'd get
a reply within 7 days.

BV's response a week ago was that they had heard the rumour but
couldn't do anything about it - they suggested to CC them in on any
correspondence to VLine and they could then follow this up.

It's getting decidedly more unclear what exactly is occurring, the PTUA oppose the banning of bicycles on peak hour services, then BV alter some of the web pages, which incidentally don't clarify really what should/could be done.

Metropolitan trains - http://www.bv.com.au/bikes-and-riding/41038/
V/Line - http://www.bv.com.au/bikes-and-riding/41039/

Ditto childish diatribes being posted by a known BV staffer, when all people are asking for is clarification and advocacy from a organisation who apparently represent bicycle riders in Victoria. Go figure?

John Tserkezis said:

Just goes to show, they appear to hate cyclists more than the morons
who are happy to cart around their 40Kg luggage from the airport.

John, beg to differ. They are not morons. They are socially and
environmentally aware travellers. I'm sure we would all prefer them to
catch a train than use a car (or even a taxi).

And nobody carries 40Kg of luggage for a plane flight unless they really
have to (and can afford it). That would cost almost as much as an extra
air fare.

Patrick Keogh said:

John Tserkezis said:

Just goes to show, they appear to hate cyclists more than the morons
who are happy to cart around their 40Kg luggage from the airport.

John, beg to differ. They are not morons. They are socially and
environmentally aware travellers. I'm sure we would all prefer them to
catch a train than use a car (or even a taxi).

And nobody carries 40Kg of luggage for a plane flight unless they really
have to (and can afford it). That would cost almost as much as an extra
air fare.

True... but why on earth 20kg of clothes in a large suitcase?!?!

I flew to QLD from Vic on work this week and my suitcase was small
enough to go on as carry on luggage and weighed about 3kg. On that
basis I could carry almost 2 months worth of clothes in 20kg... and yes
I changed each day, and no I didn't wash clothes up there.

G-S

G-S said:

True... but why on earth 20kg of clothes in a large suitcase?!?!

Quoted message said:

I flew to QLD from Vic on work this week and my suitcase was small
enough to go on as carry on luggage and weighed about 3kg. On that
basis I could carry almost 2 months worth of clothes in 20kg... and yes
I changed each day, and no I didn't wash clothes up there.

I felt I should explain my figures since they appear to be in dispute.

While I *did* pluck that number out of the air, I really don't know how
heavy any particular person wants to travel. Personally, I do it light, but
after hearing about how a family friend did it overseas, I changed my mind on
what heavy could be.

Staying overseas for about three months, she had lots of... hair.
Hairspray was big in that era. Had to carry three months worth of clothes
(couldn't have herself wearing the same outfit twice!), along with three
months worth of hairspray too. Not travelling to a third world country- far
from it, but couldn't risk running out just in case. ...Just too important...

Paid hundreds of dollars in weight charges.

This is of no consequence because daddy was paying for it.
--
Linux Registered User # 302622
<http://counter.li.org>

In aus.bicycle on Fri, 21 Dec 2007 07:38:32 +1100

G-S said:

True... but why on earth 20kg of clothes in a large suitcase?!?!

May not be all they have.

I have flown with easy 30kg of stuff. A few clothes and a bunch of
camping and fighting gear.

ObBicycle: Apparently you can fit a stick type bent into a bike box, you just
have to get creative... Alternatively there are people who are
cutting their frames and joining them with S&S couplers. I dunno I'd
ever be travelling *that* much.

Zebee

PeteSig said:

For those in Victoria, who use the country trains to commute longer
distances, or just travel to the country occasionally, some bad news fro
V-line:

http://www.vline.com.au/home/news/en/20/1123/article.aspx
Bikes

Bicycles can be carried on V/Line train services in off peak periods.

Understanding that there is limited space on peak hour trains, bicycles will
not be permitted on peak hour train services.

We advise that even on off peak train services there is limited space for
bicycles.

Bicycles are generally not permitted on V/Line coach services.

Apparently it is being introduced on the Connex metropolitan services also,
for Zone 1.

In this era of climate change action, how emminently stupid!!

Queensland used to ban bicycles completely from urban services so we
held a protest at a railway station. About 100 cyclists turned up, 10
with full-sized cardboard cut outs of bicycles.

While buskers played "Ticket to Ride" we lined up and asked alternately
for tickets for our bikes then our full sized cardboard cut outs of
bikes. Of course the railway workers had been warned in advance not to
let the bikes on the railway platform. Police milled around as the
cyclists were turned away at the gate, while the full sized cardboard
cut out carrying cyclists were allowed through. The successful
protesters did a full sized cardboard cutout of bicycle lift, a la
Critical Mass, displaying their protest slogans to the media while the
dejected real cyclists looked on forlornly.

Everyone felt the protest was a success, the police were amused, the TV
had plenty of visuals and the cyclists had a moral victory.

Within weeks every political party in Qld except the Nationals had it as
part of their policy to allow bikes on trains. We got a face to face
meeting with the minister on the issue, but didn't convince him. Good
negotiators would have I think. The Nationals lost government at the
next election, no doubt because they were being so intransigent to
cyclists. Fitzgerald had nothing to do with it.

Six months later you could take your bike on an off peak train in
Brisbane as you could in other cities, free of charge too. I think the
service has been extended to peak periods in recent years, against the
peak flow. Brisbane has much smaller trains than Melbourne so I can't
see what the problem would be down there.

It worked that time. Something to keep in mind if they remain pig
headed.

Peter

I know I'm gonna be glad,
I know it's today, yeah.
This law that's driving me mad,
it's going away, yeah.

We've got a ticket to ride
We've got a ticket to ride
We've got a ticket to ride
But VR don't care

Peter said:

Queensland used to ban bicycles completely from urban services so we
held a protest at a railway station. About 100 cyclists turned up, 10
with full-sized cardboard cut outs of bicycles.

Sounds like something Senator George Georges could of had a hand in, i.e.: protest with humour! Thanks for the jaunty tune, no doubt it will be swiftly paraphrased for later use in Victoria. 😉

flyingdutch said:

Bollox. Ain't fourth hand info grand? 🙄
So unusual for the PTUA to swallow V-Line's, err, line 😉

We knew nothing of the V-Line ban.

There had been discussions that bikes may be banned in Zone 1, peak direction during peak-hour on metro trains, Although timings were not given for this introduction it was a mute point as trying to get oneself and a cut lunch on said trains is near impossible, let alone with bike/pram/shrubbery/etc

Holland, Germany and many other Euro countries have had similar rules in place for a few years (some many years...) and provide good parking at stations.
Longer term that is a more practical solution. refer Eltham and Sth Geelong Bike parking cage trials on BV website.
bv.com.au12251Open ↗

So.........because some peak hour(s) trains are crowded, then BV is perhaps justified in not opposing the ban? Sometimes, I want / need to catch train home after riding into work (or catch train to work and ride home). I don't want to leave bike at a station and this is certainly not an alternative to catching a train with the bike. Plenty of peak hour trains have space for bikes, and if rear or forward carriages were designated bike carriages, then most, if not all trains could cope with the few bikes that need to be on the train. There is always plenty of standing room on trains if only passengers were 'encouraged' to use it. BV.....bloody vacuous

Pat

from newspaper article....

Spokesman John Rees said performance should improve once the problems
were resolved and drivers became more familiar with the route.

What a great excuse for trains being late !!!!!.. Which other route can
they take ?

But what to do when back at work on the 8th Jan? - just turn up to the
station and risk not being allowed on the train and stuff up my whole
day, or maybe get to work (with a kind conductor) and then get
stranded at St Albans Station for over an hour trying to get home that
afternoon?

And VLine still have not replied to my query about the ban!

Did anyone see the bad press VLine got on the ABC news last night when
the trains to Geelong were overcrowded on Xmas day and the cyclist who
recorded it and put it on UTube!

Quoted message said:

But what to do when back at work on the 8th Jan? - just turn up to the
station and risk not being allowed on the train and stuff up my whole
day, or maybe get to work (with a kind conductor) and then get
stranded at St Albans Station for over an hour trying to get home that
afternoon?

And VLine still have not replied to my query about the ban!

Did anyone see the bad press VLine got on the ABC news last night when
the trains to Geelong were overcrowded on Xmas day and the cyclist who
recorded it and put it on UTube!

FYI the link to the YouTube video

And ABC
http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2007/12/26/2127439.htm?section=business
"... V-Line's Ursuala McGuinness says the services were more popular
than expected, particularly on the Geelong line. "We apologise that
maybe we weren't running enough services for the people who wanted to
travel and that's why we're going to review that for next year," she said."

and the local rag
http://www.geelongadvertiser.com.au/article/2007/12/27/9986_news.html
V/LINE has apologised to commuters who missed Christmas Day celebrations
with family because of overcrowding on Geelong-bound trains.

The rail operator yesterday said ``unanticipated demand'' on the Geelong
line had caused disruptions that prevented some people from reaching
their Christmas Day destinations.

Article in todays HS:

Peak-hour bike ban plan for trains sparks outcry
http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/story/0,21985,22988641-661,00.html

Vote here* - Poll in left hand column below article headlines:
http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/opinion

Overall a good pro-bicycle article, although the typical HS readers have lost none of their talent for inventing strawman arguments and disappearing off at convoluted tangents.

(*Vote early, vote often)

Compliments of V/Line and the State Govt. - I've had a stressful
Christmas break wondering how I'll get to work in the new year -
Thanks a million Guys🙁

Apart from the usual pollies and media to voice your opposition to the
ban, anyone opposed to the bicycle ban should contact Adrian Webb
(Victorian Fare Policy Manager, Dept of Infrastructure). He's dealing
with the objections to the ban.

Ph 9095 4626 & email [email hidden].

He seemed like a nice enough fellow and seemed genuinely sorry about
the cyclists who are caught up in the ban and don't have a public
transport option at one or both ends of the train.

He said that Bicycle Victoria was told on the 3rd of August of the
proposed bike bans, and the idea was to bring in the policy softly
softly in the New Year with a grace period for cyclists. But because
people started complaining about the ban when they found out in Dec 07
and the PTUA also objected, the govt had no choice but to say the ban
would be enforced immediately. So basically it's our fault for
objecting to the ban!!!

I can't believe how short sighted the govt was to think that no one
would object to the ban if they didn't tell anyone about it in the
first place (apart from Bicycle Victoria - No wonder they have been
very quiet on the matter - and when I rang them on the 12th Dec 07
they said that they had only heard the rumour and they hadn't received
anything official)!!

Adrian suggested that there would be a grace period for bikes (at
least on V/Line) but couldn't say for how long or if at all. Appears
to be up to V/Line to decide.

Anyway, please ph and email Adrian to voice your opposition and make
sure you also contact your local MP and local papers to protest/
letters to the editor, oh and V/Line for what its worth! Adrian
confirmed that V/Line is still govt owned and run by a separate govt
business unit.

Adrian agreed that it was unacceptable that I still haven't received a
reply from V/Line from the 12 Dec 07 regarding the bike ban and that
the customer service staff knew nothing about the ban right up until
after Christmas (and probably still don't know much about it - I was
told on the 28 Dec 07 to check the website for information on the ban
and that they didn't have any other information).

Russell

Sent this email today, please forward on to anyone you know who would be interested.

***

Quoted post said:

Hi all,

I'm contacting you as we need to get organised action happening on these bicycle bans.

Otherwise I envisage a lot of time, energy and potential being lost and the State Government getting away with more PR spin.

Here's a discussion on Melbourne Cyclist with more background, updates, media links etc.

A couple of points:

- Should the public campaign remain as is, i.e.: concerned people writing separately to the State Government, Connex & V/Line

- Or should a timeline/campaign be organised so we can maximise our effectiveness and outcomes?

- Should a proposed campaign keep the focus on bicycle access, or should we broaden the focus to include making note of improving PT access for all?

- Should a proposed campaign also include a call out to other groups who also share similar goals for improving PT provision?

Further action:

- Call a informal meeting so we can meet face to face and discuss our opinions

- For people with restrictions (ie: family, work, study, live metro, rural etc) , possibly a meeting via a conference call or on Skype?

Mailing list:

A public transport discussion list has been created so people can keep in touch. To subscribe, simply follow the 'subscribing to publictransport form'

Ok all the stuff mentioned above is a pretty broad brush, your thoughts please?

In aus.bicycle on Fri, 4 Jan 2008 20:12:28 +1100

cfsmtb said:

Quoted message said:

- Should the public campaign remain as is, i.e.: concerned people
writing separately to the State Government, Connex & V/Line

- Or should a timeline/campaign be organised so we can maximise our
effectiveness and outcomes?

THe Brisbane campaign of people with cardboard bicycles able to board
and people with real ones not able to would be a good photo op.

Zebee