Night Light: Utility Bike/Short Haul?

In article <[email hidden]>,

(PeteCresswell) said:

I ride my utility (i.e. POS-Who'd-Want-To-Steal-It) bike to the
gym a few nights per week.

Total riding-in-the-dark time 20-40 minutes, depending on how
early I get home from work.

The only time I have to ride on a street is through a housing
development where I ride on the left at a walking pace. The
ambient light there, and in the parking lots I cut through
is pretty good.

But the rest of the route, I'd like a little light - especially
on cloudy and/or moon-less nights.

Rode right into an evergreen branch the other night.

Seems like this situation might be different from most in that:
--------------------------------------------------------------
- The lighting time required isn't all that long

- I need light spread out - not just spotted on the trail ahead,
but diffused to reveal objects at face/head height too.

- POS bike to the contrary, I've been secretly lusting after a
drum-brake front wheel.

- I'd prefer something where I don't need remove/replace/charge
a battery. "Set it and forget it".
--------------------------------------------------------------

I'm wondering:
--------------------------------------------------------------
- What the logical lighting arrangement is (i.e. number, type,
and placement of the illumination parts)

- If it makes any sense to mix in the drum brake thing here and
get one of Sturmey's DynoHub/Brake hubs as per
http://tinyurl.com/2uujok

I think drum brakes are generally considered marginal on large-wheeled
bikes, but on the other hand, you're riding slowly.

--
Ryan Cousineau [email hidden] http://www.wiredcola.com/
"My scenarios may give the impression I could be an excellent crook.
Not true - I am a talented lawyer." - Sandy in rec.bicycles.racing

Per Ryan Cousineau:

Quoted message said:

I think drum brakes are generally considered marginal on large-wheeled
bikes, but on the other hand, you're riding slowly.

Yeah... I think I've been through that discussion some months
ago... but another heavyweight's (Chalo's?) account made me think
that it wouldn't be a problem given my scenario.
--
PeteCresswell

Per (PeteCresswell):

Quoted message said:

heavyweight's (Chalo's?) account made me think
that it wouldn't be a problem given my scenario.

But the hub thing isn't a religious issue.... I've lived this
long without a hub brake or generator and I'll get along just
fine with neither....

Maybe I shouldn't have mentioned it. My main focus is on the
type/number of light sources and what power I'd need to run same.
--
PeteCresswell

(PeteCresswell) said:

I ride my utility (i.e. POS-Who'd-Want-To-Steal-It) bike to the
gym a few nights per week.

Total riding-in-the-dark time 20-40 minutes, depending on how
early I get home from work.

The only time I have to ride on a street is through a housing
development where I ride on the left at a walking pace. The
ambient light there, and in the parking lots I cut through
is pretty good.

Hmm. I wonder why you're doing those odd things? Riding on the left
is almost always a bad idea, as discussed here ad infinitum. And
parking lots, while sometimes handy, are often chaotic, thus scary.
But anyway...

Quoted message said:

But the rest of the route, I'd like a little light - especially
on cloudy and/or moon-less nights.

Rode right into an evergreen branch the other night.

Seems like this situation might be different from most in that:
--------------------------------------------------------------
- The lighting time required isn't all that long

- I need light spread out - not just spotted on the trail ahead,
but diffused to reveal objects at face/head height too.

- POS bike to the contrary, I've been secretly lusting after a
drum-brake front wheel.

- I'd prefer something where I don't need remove/replace/charge
a battery. "Set it and forget it".

OK, if you don't want to fuss with a battery, you know what to use for
a power source. Once you install a generator, it works pretty much
forever.

Quoted message said:

--------------------------------------------------------------

I'm wondering:
--------------------------------------------------------------
- What the logical lighting arrangement is (i.e. number, type,
and placement of the illumination parts)

If you're really worried about head-height obstacles, I'd mount the
generator headlight at handlebar height and point it slightly up.
Even "good optics" headlights cast enough lights upward to show such
obstacles, even though they very properly send most of the light onto
the road, where it's most needed. If you found an unusual headlamp
that didn't give enough upward illumination, post here and we'll
discuss simple fixes.

And the number you need is one.

Quoted message said:

- If it makes any sense to mix in the drum brake thing here and
get one of Sturmey's DynoHub/Brake hubs as per
http://tinyurl.com/2uujok

I'd say no. It's inconsistent with your "POS who'd want to steal it"
approach. And why would you want a drum brake anyway? If you get it,
I think it would be just for the novelty. Not that there's anything
wrong with that.

Quoted message said:

- If something like Sheldon's setup with a NiCad
battery constantly being charged by the DynoHub through
a rectifier could be implemented in such a way as to
require no rider intervention - ever.

You don't need that complication. I believe Sheldon wired that up
because the original, old S. A. Dynohubs put out only about 2 watts
power. That's adequate for a "be seen" light, but not for much else.
By battery-storing that power during his day rides, he was able to get
bright lights at night. It's the same concept as catching a constant
trickle of water in a big tank, so you could get lots of flow when you
needed lots of flow.

Again, you don't need that. Just use a standard generator.

Quoted message said:

- Considering the lower power consumption of LEDs, would a
couple of alkaline "C" batteries and carrying spares be
the simplest and lowest-cost power-side solution?

Well, that does away with your "set it and forget it" criterion.
Also, those sorts of lights are easier targets for theft.

FWIW, I set up a super-cheap sidewall generator for a person who I
knew would never keep after batteries. Her application was almost
exactly the same as yours. The generator cost about $15 at a
department store. I double-wired it (that is, did not rely on the
frame ground) and used a halogen bulb in place of the ordinary vacuum
bulb. It's worked perfectly for years and years.

Admittedly, it stopped working earlier this year, but I doubt the
problem is anything serious. However, since the bike's owner recently
married an electrical engineer, I'm just going to let him diagnose the
problem!

- Frank Krygowski

In article <[email hidden]>,

(PeteCresswell) said:

Per (PeteCresswell):

Quoted message said:

heavyweight's (Chalo's?) account made me think
that it wouldn't be a problem given my scenario.

But the hub thing isn't a religious issue.... I've lived this
long without a hub brake or generator and I'll get along just
fine with neither....

Maybe I shouldn't have mentioned it. My main focus is on the
type/number of light sources and what power I'd need to run same.

Your riding time is so short that almost anything would work. These
days, the hot setup is a 3W Cree flashlight with something to strap it
to the bars and a few NiMH AA batteries in the body.

--
Ryan Cousineau [email hidden] http://www.wiredcola.com/
"My scenarios may give the impression I could be an excellent crook.
Not true - I am a talented lawyer." - Sandy in rec.bicycles.racing

(PeteCresswell) wrote:

<snip>

Quoted message said:

I'm wondering:
--------------------------------------------------------------
- What the logical lighting arrangement is (i.e. number, type,
and placement of the illumination parts)

- If it makes any sense to mix in the drum brake thing here and
get one of Sturmey's DynoHub/Brake hubs as per
http://tinyurl.com/2uujok

- If something like Sheldon's setup with a NiCad
battery constantly being charged by the DynoHub through
a rectifier could be implemented in such a way as to
require no rider intervention - ever.

- Considering the lower power consumption of LEDs, would a
couple of alkaline "C" batteries and carrying spares be
the simplest and lowest-cost power-side solution?

The decent front LED lights use a high power LED, and battery life is
not in hundreds of hours like it is for LED flashers.

The best setup for a battery-free system would be a rear drum brake, a
front dynamo hub, and a SolidLights 1203D
("http://www.solidlights.co.uk/products/1203d.php"😉.

You'd be spending about $700 on wheels and lights before you're through.

Your statement "I need light spread out - not just spotted on the trail
ahead, but diffused to reveal objects at face/head height too" makes
most lights for dynamo systems unacceptable, because they focus the
limited light output such that it will not provide the type of
illumination you want (the SolidLight is an exception).

If it were me I'd get a 3W Cree LED flashlight that runs on 2 C or 2 AA
cells. But this definitely requires rider intervention. You could
build something that allowed a dynohub to charge batteries, but the
circuits actually end up being quite complex. There were a commercial
product announced, but it never made to market
"http://www.copycatsolar.com/index_files/Page657.htm".

Ryan Cousineau said:

In article <[email hidden]>,

(PeteCresswell) said:

Per (PeteCresswell):

Quoted message said:

heavyweight's (Chalo's?) account made me think
that it wouldn't be a problem given my scenario.

But the hub thing isn't a religious issue.... I've lived this
long without a hub brake or generator and I'll get along just
fine with neither....

Maybe I shouldn't have mentioned it. My main focus is on the
type/number of light sources and what power I'd need to run same.

Your riding time is so short that almost anything would work. These
days, the hot setup is a 3W Cree flashlight with something to strap it
to the bars and a few NiMH AA batteries in the body.

This is correct. Especially given the light pattern that you want. See
"http://nordicgroup.us/s78/flashlights.html" for two good Cree choices
and a variety of attachment methods.

Per [email hidden]:

Quoted message said:

Riding on the left
is almost always a bad idea, as discussed here ad infinitum.

Yeah, I think I've read most of the threads.

But nobody seems to have spelled out the functional diff between
a person on foot jogging at 7 mph and a cyclist riding at 4mph.

Assuming there's a reason that a jogger is advised to run facing
traffic, nobody's illuminated me on the reasons why a person on a
bike moving at the same or slower speed with the same profile
should ride on the opposite side of the street - especially in
the context of people talking on cell phones, doing email, and
text messaging while trying to drive at the same time.

Maybe I'm missing something... but the variables seem tb closing
speed and profile.

And if they're virtually the same for both the runner and the
cyclist......
--
PeteCresswell

Planeybike makes a head or helmet mounted front and rear light

Ryan Cousineau said:

Your riding time is so short that almost anything would work. These
days, the hot setup is a 3W Cree flashlight with something to strap it
to the bars and a few NiMH AA batteries in the body.

What he said. Flashlights with a single 3W Cree XR-E or SSC P4 are
very cheaply available from places like dealextreme.com or
kaidomain.com. Strap one to a handlebar with a Twofish Lockblock or
some cheap homemade substitute, and you're done. Trivial to remove and
re-install. Flashlights with a "low" mode can last for tens of hours,
if that's all the light you need. And AA NiMH batteries and their
charger are very cheap at Harbor Freight Tools.

Stephen Greenwood

On Jan 1, 9:43 am, Stephen Greenwood <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Ryan Cousineau said:

Your riding time is so short that almost anything would work. These
days, the hot setup is a 3W Cree flashlight with something to strap it
to the bars and a few NiMH AA batteries in the body.

What he said. Flashlights with a single 3W Cree XR-E or SSC P4 are
very cheaply available from places like dealextreme.com or
kaidomain.com. Strap one to a handlebar with a Twofish Lockblock or
some cheap homemade substitute, and you're done. Trivial to remove and
re-install. Flashlights with a "low" mode can last for tens of hours,
if that's all the light you need. And AA NiMH batteries and their
charger are very cheap at Harbor Freight Tools.

Stephen Greenwood

Oh yes, and you can try candlepowerforums.com for much more detailed
discussion.

Stephen Greenwood said:

Ryan Cousineau said:

Your riding time is so short that almost anything would work. These
days, the hot setup is a 3W Cree flashlight with something to strap it
to the bars and a few NiMH AA batteries in the body.

What he said. Flashlights with a single 3W Cree XR-E or SSC P4 are
very cheaply available from places like dealextreme.com or
kaidomain.com. Strap one to a handlebar with a Twofish Lockblock or
some cheap homemade substitute, and you're done. Trivial to remove and
re-install. Flashlights with a "low" mode can last for tens of hours,
if that's all the light you need. And AA NiMH batteries and their
charger are very cheap at Harbor Freight Tools.

Argh, stick to Sanyo NiMH batteries, preferably Eneloops. While I like
some stuff at Harbor Freight, their batteries and chargers are junk.

I'd get the Sanyo Eneloop multipack which comes with AA to C and AA to D
adapters, then use the Lowe's Task Force 3W Cree LED flashlight and a
homemade bracket.

cmcanulty said:

Planeybike makes a head or helmet mounted front and rear light

A little shopping around locally one can find those head/helmet mount
lights a LOT cheaper. Granted, they may not have the run time but, as
they are usually designed for hunters, they can be a bit more durable.

http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/common/search/search-results2.jsp?Ne=46&noImage=0&Ntt=head+light&Ntk=Products&QueryText=head+light&Ntx=matchall&N=47&nyr=1

http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.do?product_id=8111444

http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.do?product_id=6043630

(PeteCresswell) said:

Per [email hidden]:

Quoted message said:

Riding on the left
is almost always a bad idea, as discussed here ad infinitum.

Yeah, I think I've read most of the threads.

But nobody seems to have spelled out the functional diff between
a person on foot jogging at 7 mph and a cyclist riding at 4mph.

Assuming there's a reason that a jogger is advised to run facing
traffic, nobody's illuminated me on the reasons why a person on a
bike moving at the same or slower speed with the same profile
should ride on the opposite side of the street - especially in
the context of people talking on cell phones, doing email, and
text messaging while trying to drive at the same time.

Maybe I'm missing something... but the variables seem tb closing
speed and profile.

And if they're virtually the same for both the runner and the
cyclist......

Admittedly, if you're really riding at walking speed, the differences
aren't as great. But one that remains is the difference in evasive
capability between a cyclist and a walker/jogger.

IOW, a walker or jogger can stop almost instantaneously, and can even
jump the curb or roadside swale if he chooses to. A cyclist typically
can't. He can stop, but not as quickly, and then he's got himself
astride an obstacle that hinders his agility.

And if you really are riding no faster than you walk or jog, you're in
a _very_ extreme minority. For almost all cyclists, speed is higher,
so closing speeds add rather than subtract when you're facing
traffic. Reaction times are worse, and resulting impact speeds are
higher. And of course, there's the surprise factor. You're throwing
an unusual problem at the motorist, and giving him less time to figure
out how to solve it.

Let's turn the question around: What benefits do you imagine for
riding facing traffic, compared to cycling legally with a rear view
mirror?

- Frank Krygowski

Per [email hidden]:

Quoted message said:

Let's turn the question around: What benefits do you imagine for
riding facing traffic, compared to cycling legally with a rear view
mirror?

Being able to see it coming.

Been there, done that once already. Dunno what the guy was
doing - email, notepad, or what.... but I zigged and he
did *not* zag - in fact, he never even looked up.

The mirror thing calls out to me. My neighbor has one that
slides into the handle bar when not in use and I'll
probably buy one eventually - not for road use, since I ride so
few miles on streets/roads - but for bike path use when riding
abreast with people so we can single-file before closing riders
have to slow down.

Maybe there's some magic in mirrors, but I personally would not
hope for a mirror to function as a talisman against somebody in a
Ford Excursion with mirrors fully extended closing on me at 25
mph over the speed limit - especially since I'm not all that
competent to begin with and I've got other things vying for my
limited cognitive capacity besides that little square of glass.

It only takes one...

I've been through this discussion a few times.

My conclusions are:
------------------------------------------------------------
- Conditions (road size/layout, traffic, driving habits,
adherence to rules by drivers....) vary from area-to-area
so drastically that some well-intentioned people in location
"A" may not be able to imagine the hazards present in
location "B".

- The cyclist's exposure to risk has changed significantly
since people started talking on cell phones, doing email,
and text messaging while trying to drive - but conventional
cycling wisdom has not.

- Which side of the road to ride on at any given time is
a judgment call depending on the road, type of traffic,
speed of traffic, speed of cyclist, speed of cyclist
relative to traffic, type of bike (fat or skinny tire),
shoulder width, condition of the shoulder, condition of
the road, type of fencing/barriers along the road,
frequency of intersecting roads/streets, type of
intersecting roads/streets, number of "exit lane" type
intersections on one side of the road vs the other, and
ambient conditions.

- Strict adherence to conventional wisdom and strict compliance
with traffic laws can enhance one's safety in one locale
yet get them killed or injured in another locale.
------------------------------------------------------------

--
PeteCresswell

In article <[email hidden]>,

SMS éz‰⁄ï∂• ⃠said:

Stephen Greenwood said:

Ryan Cousineau said:

Your riding time is so short that almost anything would work. These
days, the hot setup is a 3W Cree flashlight with something to strap it
to the bars and a few NiMH AA batteries in the body.

What he said. Flashlights with a single 3W Cree XR-E or SSC P4 are
very cheaply available from places like dealextreme.com or
kaidomain.com. Strap one to a handlebar with a Twofish Lockblock or
some cheap homemade substitute, and you're done. Trivial to remove and
re-install. Flashlights with a "low" mode can last for tens of hours,
if that's all the light you need. And AA NiMH batteries and their
charger are very cheap at Harbor Freight Tools.

Argh, stick to Sanyo NiMH batteries, preferably Eneloops. While I like
some stuff at Harbor Freight, their batteries and chargers are junk.

I'd get the Sanyo Eneloop multipack which comes with AA to C and AA to D
adapters, then use the Lowe's Task Force 3W Cree LED flashlight and a
homemade bracket.

Eneloops have a specific advantage: low self-discharge. Standard NiMH
batteries lose their charge fairly quickly while not doing anything
(they'll typically go near-flat within a few weeks). That means typical
NiMH batteries are a poor choice for stuff like remotes or emergency
flashlights which don't go near a charger.

In this application, using one over the other is pretty marginal, but if
you're using the light every day, you'll probably need to charge often
enough that the difference will not matter. Eneloop-type batteries
sacrifice a bit of capacity for their really neat trick; this may or may
not matter.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eneloop

If you buy any brand of low self-discharge batteries (that article has a
helpful list of brands) they're all about the same. the 2000 mAh
capacity is not that bad, though 2700 mAh batteries do exist (and
flatten themselves after a month or so).

--
Ryan Cousineau [email hidden] http://www.wiredcola.com/
"My scenarios may give the impression I could be an excellent crook.
Not true - I am a talented lawyer." - Sandy in rec.bicycles.racing

Ryan Cousineau said:

In this application, using one over the other is pretty marginal, but if
you're using the light every day, you'll probably need to charge often
enough that the difference will not matter.

Ryan, you are far more diplomatic than I am. After using numerous
rechargeable batteries and seeing the pluses and minuses of each, I
wanted to answer the know-it-all SMS, but knew that I couldn't be
polite, so I passed.
Thanks.

Harry (Lincoln said:

cmcanulty said:

Planeybike makes a head or helmet mounted front and rear light

A little shopping around locally one can find those head/helmet mount
lights a LOT cheaper. Granted, they may not have the run time but, as
they are usually designed for hunters, they can be a bit more durable.

http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/common/search/search-results2.jsp?Ne=46&noImage=0&Ntt=head+light&Ntk=Products&QueryText=head+light&Ntx=matchall&N=47&nyr=1

http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.do?product_id=8111444

http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.do?product_id=6043630

Last year I got a 3W Luxeon head strap light from Harbor Freight for
$15, last month I got a 3W Cree from Kaidomain for $10. I like
Microbattery for chargers/NiMh's.

Ryan Cousineau said:

In this application, using one over the other is pretty marginal, but if
you're using the light every day, you'll probably need to charge often
enough that the difference will not matter.

Of course, any such battery violates the OP's criterion:

"- I'd prefer something where I don't need remove/replace/charge
a battery. 'Set it and forget it'. "

- Frank Krygowski