An opportunity for Fattie Masters

"TritonRider" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Who can we get to go, and give us a blow by blow report?

Only the true Fattie Master will blow Lemond w/ the virtual 4 Tour wins.

"TritonRider" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

With too much money to put some of it to use in a good cause.

From: dailypeloton.comdisplayarticle.aspOpen ↗ It's about 2/3 of the way down
the page.

Greg LeMond Fantasy Camp-A Once in a Lifetime Event

Purpose: All proceeds go to benefit the Eddie B. Relief Fund.

Designed for: Cyclists and triathletes of all abilities.

Sounds like a very interesting camp with that staff. It'd be cool

to go but

Quoted message said:

I've got more pressing needs for that kind of money, if I had it,

and I'm not

Quoted message said:

good enough to get enough out of the camp to make it worth it.
Who can we get to go, and give us a blow by blow report?

Who the hell can afford that type of money and can get anything out of a camp with all of those
stars there? You pay the money as a donation to Eddy B and you go to the camp to hang out with a lot
of hasbeen pros. If you train really hard before you go to the camp you'll be able to ride with them
while they're warming up.

It's the best sort of scam because it pays for the people who put it on, it gives you a chance to be
around really good bicyclists and Eddy B might even get a few bucks out of it.

But I'd probably just send the bucks directly to Eddy B if I had that sort of money available.

Tom Kunich said:

"TritonRider" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:20031209195257.09506.00000444@mb-
m17.aol.com...

Quoted message said:

With too much money to put some of it to use in a good cause.

From: dailypeloton.comdisplayarticle.aspOpen ↗ It's about 2/3 of the way down
the page.

Greg LeMond Fantasy Camp-A Once in a Lifetime Event

Purpose: All proceeds go to benefit the Eddie B. Relief Fund.

Designed for: Cyclists and triathletes of all abilities.

Sounds like a very interesting camp with that staff. It'd be cool

to go but

Quoted message said:

I've got more pressing needs for that kind of money, if I had it,

and I'm not

Quoted message said:

good enough to get enough out of the camp to make it worth it.
Who can we get to go, and give us a blow by blow report?

Who the hell can afford that type of money and can get anything out of a camp with all of those
stars there? You pay the money as a donation to Eddy B and you go to the camp to hang out with a
lot of hasbeen pros. If you train really hard before you go to the camp you'll be able to ride
with them while they're warming up.

It's the best sort of scam because it pays for the people who put it on, it gives you a chance to
be around really good bicyclists and Eddy B might even get a few bucks out of it.

But I'd probably just send the bucks directly to Eddy B if I had that sort of money available.

Hey! Why don't you and Henry orgranize a Fatty Masters Camp, procedes to Eddy B? Hmmm????

--Complete Performance Testing - by Dr. Brent Kay - including: VO2 Max, Lactate Threshold heart
rate, Watts at Lactate Threshold & Maximum, blood testing and body fat percentage. ($1000 Value)

$1000 value!!! BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

"TritonRider" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:20031209195257.09506.00000444@mb-
m17.aol.com...

Quoted message said:

With too much money to put some of it to use in a good cause.

From: dailypeloton.comdisplayarticle.aspOpen ↗ It's about 2/3 of the way down
the page.

Greg LeMond Fantasy Camp-A Once in a Lifetime Event

Purpose: All proceeds go to benefit the Eddie B. Relief Fund.

Designed for: Cyclists and triathletes of all abilities.

Sounds like a very interesting camp with that staff. It'd be cool to go

but

Quoted message said:

I've got more pressing needs for that kind of money, if I had it, and I'm

not

Quoted message said:

good enough to get enough out of the camp to make it worth it. Who can we get to go, and give us a
blow by blow report? Bill C

"Jim Martin" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

--Complete Performance Testing - by Dr. Brent Kay - including: VO2 Max, Lactate Threshold heart
rate, Watts at Lactate Threshold & Maximum, blood testing and body fat percentage. ($1000 Value)

$1000 value!!! BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

No Kidding, everytime I have had this done is was about 100.00 to 125.00 for ALL of it

Dave

Quoted message said:

"TritonRider" <[email hidden]> wrote

Quoted message said:

From: dailypeloton.comdisplayarticle.aspOpen ↗

Jim Martin said:

--Complete Performance Testing - by Dr. Brent Kay - including: VO2 Max, Lactate Threshold heart
rate, Watts at Lactate Threshold & Maximum, blood testing and body fat percentage. ($1000 Value)

$1000 value!!! BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You're saying that Dr. Brent Kay is a Fattie Master?

"Jim Martin" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

--Complete Performance Testing - by Dr. Brent Kay - including: VO2 Max, Lactate Threshold heart
rate, Watts at Lactate Threshold & Maximum, blood testing and body fat percentage. ($1000 Value)

$1000 value!!! BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I'd agree with you that the information to be gained isn't worth nearly that much. OTOH, you're
talking about 2-3 h of a professional's time, plus the costs of supplies, equipment, liability
insurance, etc., etc., etc. It's no wonder, then, that most universities don't like to provide such
testing on a fee-for-services basis, as it simply isn't cost-effective at the price that the market
will typically bear.

Andy Coggan

"Robert Chung" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

You're saying that Dr. Brent Kay is a Fattie Master?

I'm saying that claiming that a set of tests, including VO2max, LT, and body comp, is a $1000
value is funny.

In article <[email hidden]>, Andy

Coggan said:

"Jim Martin" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

--Complete Performance Testing - by Dr. Brent Kay - including: VO2 Max, Lactate Threshold heart
rate, Watts at Lactate Threshold & Maximum, blood testing and body fat percentage. ($1000 Value)

$1000 value!!! BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I'd agree with you that the information to be gained isn't worth nearly that much. OTOH, you're
talking about 2-3 h of a professional's time, plus the costs of supplies, equipment, liability
insurance, etc., etc., etc. It's no wonder, then, that most universities don't like to provide
such testing on a fee-for-services basis, as it simply isn't cost-effective at the price that the
market will typically bear.

Andy Coggan

UC Davis Sports Performance Group does more than a dozen such tests every week and they're happy to
do it at prices that the market will bear.

-WG

Andy Coggan said:

"Jim Martin" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

--Complete Performance Testing - by Dr. Brent Kay - including: VO2 Max, Lactate Threshold heart
rate, Watts at Lactate Threshold & Maximum, blood testing and body fat percentage. ($1000 Value)

$1000 value!!! BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I'd agree with you that the information to be gained isn't worth nearly that much. OTOH, you're
talking about 2-3 h of a professional's time, plus the costs of supplies, equipment, liability
insurance, etc., etc., etc. It's no wonder, then, that most universities don't like to provide
such testing on a fee-for-services basis, as it simply isn't cost-effective at the price that the
market will typically bear.

I got mine for free. Well, not totally free. I had to undergo a creatine protocol for a grad
student's project.

-Gerard

Jim Martin said:

"Robert Chung" <[email hidden]> wrote

Quoted message said:

You're saying that Dr. Brent Kay is a Fattie Master?

I'm saying that claiming that a set of tests, including VO2max, LT, and body comp, is a $1000
value is funny.

Then the subject heading is accurate. Or accurate, that is, if Dr. Brent Kay is a Fattie Master.

"warren" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

In article <[email hidden]>, Andy Coggan

Quoted message said:

"Jim Martin" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

--Complete Performance Testing - by Dr. Brent Kay - including: VO2

Max,

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Lactate Threshold heart rate, Watts at Lactate Threshold & Maximum,

blood

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

testing and body fat percentage. ($1000 Value)

$1000 value!!! BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I'd agree with you that the information to be gained isn't worth nearly

that

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

much. OTOH, you're talking about 2-3 h of a professional's time, plus

the

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

costs of supplies, equipment, liability insurance, etc., etc., etc. It's

no

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

wonder, then, that most universities don't like to provide such testing

on a

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

fee-for-services basis, as it simply isn't cost-effective at the price

that

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

the market will typically bear.

Andy Coggan

UC Davis Sports Performance Group does more than a dozen such tests every week and they're happy
to do it at prices that the market will bear.

And if you did the accounting, you'd find that they're losing money with each and every such test.
The only reason it might be worthwhile is if it pulls in other business (e.g., coachees, like
yourself), much like the practice of groceries to sell milk for less than it actually costs them,
just to get people in the store. True academic programs (which is what I meant when I said
"universities"😉 can't/don't try to generate income via such efforts, making "loss leader" VO2max
testing a waste of time and resources.

FWIW, I'm betting that the UC Davis effort folds, or at least changes form/direction significantly,
inside of 5 years. Numerous hospitals opened such sports med programs in the early 1990's,
attempting to supplement their bottom line with discretionary health care dollars at a time when
costs were spiraling upward and revenues from insurance providers for required medical care were not
keeping pace (forget about money coming directly from the patients...only the richest of the rich
can afford to pay their own way, and those who by mandate must serve poorer populations, e.g., inner
city hospitals, veterans hospitals, geriatrics programs, typically lose money by the boatload). Such
programs were generally unsuccessful (unlucrative) then, and I don't see how the situation has
really changed. That's especially true given California's current budget crisis...

Andy Coggan

Actually, I've talked with Max about this and they provide the service, but most (70%+) of their
patients are cardiac rehab type patients. Consider this a side service to occupy their real
interests. I think they make about $200 from an athlete vs. about $700 for a rehab patient. That's
how they stay in business.

Frankly, I don't see testing as a major marketing tool to entice people into anything. I make
very little money from testing and really offer it to my clients as part of the package because I
have all the equipment covered. Rider's here simply don't recognize the value of anything besides
$2000 wheels.

CH

BTW: $150 is still high compared to the $50 typically paid in Italy!

Quoted message said:

FWIW, I'm betting that the UC Davis effort folds, or at least changes form/direction
significantly, inside of 5 years. Numerous hospitals opened such sports med programs in the early
1990's, attempting to supplement their bottom line with discretionary health care dollars at a
time when costs were spiraling upward and revenues from insurance providers for required medical
care were not keeping pace (forget about money coming directly from the patients...only the
richest of the rich can afford to pay their own way, and those who by mandate must serve poorer
populations, e.g., inner city hospitals, veterans hospitals, geriatrics programs, typically lose
money by the boatload). Such programs were generally unsuccessful (unlucrative) then, and I don't
see how the situation has really changed. That's especially true given California's current budget
crisis...

Andy Coggan

"Andy Coggan" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<dt2Cb.7744

Quoted message said:

And if you did the accounting, you'd find that they're losing money with each and every such test.

What ? You mean to say a big chunk of the $3000 is going towards paying for those VO2max tests ?

-Amit

In article <[email hidden]>, chris

Quoted message said:

Actually, I've talked with Max about this and they provide the service, but most (70%+) of their
patients are cardiac rehab type patients. Consider this a side service to occupy their real
interests. I think they make about $200 from an athlete vs. about $700 for a rehab patient. That's
how they stay in business.

I've talked with Max about this too. They also generate (net) income when they do tests for a group
of athletes both on site and off site. Off site testing frequently involves 10-20 tests in one day.
They do in fact make money from the service-but not as much as they do from a cardiac rehab patient.
UC Davis is very happy with the Sports Performance Group.

Quoted message said:

BTW: $150 is still high compared to the $50 typically paid in Italy!

Over there you'll find almost any active person getting tested and every licensed bike racer needs
an annual EKG, etc. and other testing to get their license. And yes, they don't pay much for it.

-WG

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

FWIW, I'm betting that the UC Davis effort folds, or at least changes form/direction
significantly, inside of 5 years. Numerous hospitals opened such sports med programs in the
early 1990's, attempting to supplement their bottom line with discretionary health care dollars
at a time when costs were spiraling upward and revenues from insurance providers for required
medical care were not keeping pace (forget about money coming directly from the patients...only
the richest of the rich can afford to pay their own way, and those who by mandate must serve
poorer populations, e.g., inner city hospitals, veterans hospitals, geriatrics programs,
typically lose money by the boatload). Such programs were generally unsuccessful (unlucrative)
then, and I don't see how the situation has really changed. That's especially true given
California's current budget crisis...

Andy Coggan

"chris" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Actually, I've talked with Max about this and they provide the service, but most (70%+) of their
patients are cardiac rehab type patients.

Interesting - how did they wrest control of the cardiac rehab program away from the department of
cardiology? The latter are usually heavy-hitters in a med school setting, due to their clinical
income (money = power). I'm therefore surprised to hear that the cardiac rehab is run through the
sports med program (which is usually the domain of orthopedists - like Heiden) instead of by
cardiology.

Another question: how do they *make* $200 per test when assessing athletes, when Warren implied that
they were *charging* less than this amount? Perhaps you meant that the fee was $200 and $700 for a
stress/VO2max test for healthy athletes and patients, respectively? That makes a lot more sense.

Andy Coggan

"Amit" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Andy Coggan" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<dt2Cb.7744

Quoted message said:

And if you did the accounting, you'd find that they're losing money with each and every
such test.

What ? You mean to say a big chunk of the $3000 is going towards paying for those VO2max tests ?

I was referring to the $100-300 usually charged for a VO2max test.

Andy Coggan

As usual, Kunich is commenting on things he has absolutely NO knowledge of. Firstly, ALL of people
who will be at this camp...including Lemond, the ex-Olympians etc, and the support people who are
helping to put this on are donating ALL of there time. No one is getting a dime, AND they are paying
ALL of ther own expenses, including lodging, airfare, meals, etc. They are coming out becuase of
their love and respect for Eddie.

Vic Copeland (US Postal Masters)is the one doing all of the coordination for this thing and has
secured some sweet schwag for all of the campers, including wind tunnel testing for the first 20
campers to sign up.

Also, if you were really informed, you would know that the name is EDDIE "B" Borysewicz,
not Eddy....

Additionally, I did not see your name ANYWHERE on the donor list of people who had given something
to the Eddie B Relief fund. I know of quite a few people who sent in just a few bucks, all that they
had, along with some other BIG BUCK donors also.

As USUAL, YOU are the biggest whining loser on this newgroup.

To quote another poster:

"DUMBASS!!!!!!"

"Tom Kunich" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

"TritonRider" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:20031209195257.09506.00000444@mb-
m17.aol.com...

Quoted message said:

With too much money to put some of it to use in a good cause.

From: dailypeloton.comdisplayarticle.aspOpen ↗ It's about 2/3 of the way down
the page.

Greg LeMond Fantasy Camp-A Once in a Lifetime Event

Purpose: All proceeds go to benefit the Eddie B. Relief Fund.

Designed for: Cyclists and triathletes of all abilities.

Sounds like a very interesting camp with that staff. It'd be cool

to go but

Quoted message said:

I've got more pressing needs for that kind of money, if I had it,

and I'm not

Quoted message said:

good enough to get enough out of the camp to make it worth it.
Who can we get to go, and give us a blow by blow report?

Who the hell can afford that type of money and can get anything out of a camp with all of those
stars there? You pay the money as a donation to Eddy B and you go to the camp to hang out with a
lot of hasbeen pros. If you train really hard before you go to the camp you'll be able to ride
with them while they're warming up.

It's the best sort of scam because it pays for the people who put it on, it gives you a chance to
be around really good bicyclists and Eddy B might even get a few bucks out of it.

But I'd probably just send the bucks directly to Eddy B if I had that sort of money available.

"warren" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

UC Davis Sports Performance Group does more than a dozen such tests every week and they're happy
to do it at prices that the market will bear.

Fattie -

Why the hell would someone with 15% bodyfat bother to get tested?

The way to get faster for a 30lbs.-of-fat-carrying specimen is quite obvious.