Re: Letter to BMJ- child obesity and cycle lanes.

Dave said:

<[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...
SNIP

Quoted message said:

Parents are scared of paedos (8 children a year murdered >be abductors)
and so drive their kids to school (ten children a day killed or
seriously injured on the roads).

Is that ALL as a result of being in a vehicle or are some/many/most of these
because they are on foot/bike and get hit by them.

In a vehicle. In general mummy and daddy are crappy drivers and expose
Tarquin and Josella to more danger short term by driving them then
having them walk.

Dave said:

<[email hidden]> wrote in message

news:[email hidden]...
SNIP

Quoted message said:

Parents are scared of paedos (8 children a year murdered >be abductors)
and so drive their kids to school (ten children a day killed or
seriously injured on the roads).

Is that ALL as a result of being in a vehicle or are some/many/most of these
because they are on foot/bike and get hit by them.

I can see where you are coming from but the figures mean nothing if they are
not clear what they represent.

Dave

Yep, you're right , it's all road users.

Since we know cyclists exert a civilising influence on the roads and
higher cycling rates increase road safety the parent's actions seem
daft.

marc said:

Dave said:

<[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...
SNIP

Quoted message said:

Parents are scared of paedos (8 children a year murdered >be abductors)
and so drive their kids to school (ten children a day killed or
seriously injured on the roads).

Is that ALL as a result of being in a vehicle or are some/many/most of
these because they are on foot/bike and get hit by them.

In a vehicle.

May I ask the source of your data, because my reading of RCGB 2006
suggests that they are wildly inaccurate.

According to RCGB 2006, the numbers of children killed or seriously
injured on journeys to or from school, by road user type for the _whole_
of 2006 were as follows:

As pedestrians: 457
As pedal cyclists: 42
As car occupants: 22
As bus/tram occupants: 15

Quoted message said:

In general mummy and daddy are crappy drivers and expose
Tarquin and Josella to more danger short term by driving them then
having them walk.

Twenty times more children are killed or seriously injured walking
to/from school as are travelling by car.

--
Matt B

spindrift said:

Dave said:

<[email hidden]> wrote in message

news:[email hidden]...
SNIP

Quoted message said:

Parents are scared of paedos (8 children a year murdered >be abductors)
and so drive their kids to school (ten children a day killed or
seriously injured on the roads).

Is that ALL as a result of being in a vehicle or are some/many/most of these
because they are on foot/bike and get hit by them.

I can see where you are coming from but the figures mean nothing if they are
not clear what they represent.

Yep, you're right , it's all road users.

No, there were about 87 road users killed or seriously injured daily in
2006.

Quoted message said:

Since we know cyclists exert a civilising influence on the roads

Can you cite /how/ we know this?

Quoted message said:

and
higher cycling rates increase road safety

Can you cite evidence that more cycling increases road safety, rather
than that more cycling reduces the risk to a particular cyclist?

Quoted message said:

the parent's actions seem
daft.

Given that 457 child pedestrians were killed or seriously injured in
2006 travelling to/from school, and 22 were killed or seriously injured
making the same journey by car, the car choice would seem quite rational.

--
Matt B

Matt B said:

spindrift wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

the parent's actions seem
daft.

Given that 457 child pedestrians were killed or seriously injured in
2006 travelling to/from school, and 22 were killed or seriously injured
making the same journey by car, the car choice would seem quite rational.

What proportion of children travel to school by car and what proportion
on foot?

Where I teach, the vast majority walk or take the bus. The driven have a
huge effect on the roads at the end of the day but are actually
relatively small in number.

Cheers,
Luke

--
Red Rose Ramblings, the diary of an Essex boy in
exile in Lancashire <http://www.shrimper.org.uk>

Ekul Namsob said:

Matt B said:

spindrift wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

the parent's actions seem
daft.

Given that 457 child pedestrians were killed or seriously injured in
2006 travelling to/from school, and 22 were killed or seriously injured
making the same journey by car, the car choice would seem quite rational.

What proportion of children travel to school by car and what proportion
on foot?

According to TSGB 2007, the following numbers of trips per person were
made for "Education/escort education" by main mode in 2006:
Walk: 44
Bicycle: 2
Car driver: 22
Car passenger: 23
Other private: 3
Local bus: 11
Train: 2
Other public: 1

And as miles per person:
Walk: 27
Bicycle: 3
Car driver: 87
Car passenger: 76
Other private: 27
Local bus: 56
Train: 25
Other public: 6

Quoted message said:

Where I teach, the vast majority walk or take the bus.

Same most places I think.

Quoted message said:

The driven have a
huge effect on the roads at the end of the day

Yes, schools and councils don't tend to accommodate too well the needs
of those who choose to bring their kids to school by car. In many
places they actively deter it, with lack of drop-off points, parking
prohibitions etc. Imagine the furore that would erupt if they chose to
deliberately make foot or bus access difficult.

Quoted message said:

but are actually
relatively small in number.

Luckily for those charged with planning for these things.

--
Matt B

Matt B said:

Ekul Namsob said:

Matt B said:

spindrift wrote:

Quoted message said:

> the parent's actions seem
> daft.
Given that 457 child pedestrians were killed or seriously injured in
2006 travelling to/from school, and 22 were killed or seriously injured
making the same journey by car, the car choice would seem quite rational.

What proportion of children travel to school by car and what proportion
on foot?

According to TSGB 2007, the following numbers of trips per person were
made for "Education/escort education" by main mode in 2006:
Walk: 44
Bicycle: 2
Car driver: 22
Car passenger: 23
Other private: 3
Local bus: 11
Train: 2
Other public: 1

Sadly, those figures aren't terribly helpful as they do not separate the
child pedestrians from their adult escorts.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Where I teach, the vast majority walk or take the bus.

Same most places I think.

Quoted message said:

The driven have a
huge effect on the roads at the end of the day

Yes, schools and councils don't tend to accommodate too well the needs
of those who choose to bring their kids to school by car. In many
places they actively deter it, with lack of drop-off points, parking
prohibitions etc. Imagine the furore that would erupt if they chose to
deliberately make foot or bus access difficult.

There is no good reason to encourage the driving of children to school
by car in preference to other methods. There is no need for the drop-off
points that too many parents expect, such as immediately outside a
secondary school.

cheers,
Luke

--
Red Rose Ramblings, the diary of an Essex boy in
exile in Lancashire <http://www.shrimper.org.uk>

Ekul Namsob said:

Matt B said:

Ekul Namsob said:

Matt B <[email hidden]> wrote:

> spindrift wrote:
>> the parent's actions seem
>> daft.
> Given that 457 child pedestrians were killed or seriously injured in
> 2006 travelling to/from school, and 22 were killed or seriously injured
> making the same journey by car, the car choice would seem quite rational.
What proportion of children travel to school by car and what proportion
on foot?

According to TSGB 2007, the following numbers of trips per person were
made for "Education/escort education" by main mode in 2006:
Walk: 44
Bicycle: 2
Car driver: 22
Car passenger: 23
Other private: 3
Local bus: 11
Train: 2
Other public: 1

Sadly, those figures aren't terribly helpful as they do not separate the
child pedestrians from their adult escorts.

No, but they're the best I could find. At least they give approximate
orders of magnitude.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Where I teach, the vast majority walk or take the bus.

Same most places I think.

Quoted message said:

The driven have a
huge effect on the roads at the end of the day

Yes, schools and councils don't tend to accommodate too well the needs
of those who choose to bring their kids to school by car. In many
places they actively deter it, with lack of drop-off points, parking
prohibitions etc. Imagine the furore that would erupt if they chose to
deliberately make foot or bus access difficult.

There is no good reason to encourage the driving of children to school
by car in preference to other methods.

No, but there are some people who want to, or even need to, so their
requirements should be actively accommodated, not obstructed.

Quoted message said:

There is no need for the drop-off
points that too many parents expect, such as immediately outside a
secondary school.

Even if their "customers" and paymasters want them? They tend to bend
over backwards to provide for buses, pedestrians and cyclists.

--
Matt B