Frozen aluminum nipples

RS said:

I acquired a wheel with a mavic open pro rim, DA7700 front hub, wheelsmith14/17/14 spokes and
aluminum nipples.  Some of the nipples were cracked, I replaced them butseveral nipples are frozen
solid.  You can turn them and see the spoke winding up - not good.   Itried spraying in tri-flow and
similiar materials but nothing.   Do I have to cut the frozen spokes outand replace or is there
something I can put on the nipples to loosen them?  thanks to all and I'm not an ace wheel builder or
repair person.

Dear RS,

If the threads on your aluminum nipple have oxidized, then the oxide
layer has expanded with impressive force--you'll have a hell of a time
getting them off with any tricks short of slitting them.

Even if there's a way to get your corroded aluminum nipples off
cleanly, your time is worth something, and you still have to get brass
nipples to replace them.

Sapim 14-17 double butted spokes in various lengths, $12.95 for a bag
of 20:
http://biketoolsetc.com/index.cgi?id=24393435553&nr=21&b=&c=Components&sc=Wheel-and-Rim&tc=Spokes/14/17/Double-Butted&q=&s=
or http://tinyurl.com/2n6a4m

Brass nipples, $1.60 for a bag of 20:
http://biketoolsetc.com/index.cgi?id=24393435553&c=Components&sc=Wheel-and-Rim&tc=Nipples/Brass
or http://tinyurl.com/2w2u3u

You can probably get a couple of spokes more quickly and maybe even
cheaper, given shipping charges, at a local bike shop.

Cheers,

Carl Fogel

Quoted message said:

RS said:

I acquired a wheel with a mavic open pro rim, DA7700 front hub, wheelsmith 14/17/14 spokes and
aluminum nipples. Some of the nipples were cracked, I replaced them but several nipples are frozen
solid. You can turn them and see the spoke winding up - not good. I tried spraying in tri-flow and
similiar materials but nothing. Do I have to cut the frozen spokes out and replace or is there
something I can put on the nipples to loosen them? thanks to all and I'm not an ace wheel builder or
repair person.

Dear RS,

If the threads on your aluminum nipple have oxidized, then the oxide
layer has expanded with impressive force--you'll have a hell of a time
getting them off with any tricks short of slitting them.

Try heat (ie a propane torch), the different expansion ratio works in
your favor

--
/Marten

info(apestaartje)m-gineering(punt)nl

RS said:

I acquired a wheel with a mavic open pro rim, DA7700 front hub, wheelsmith 14/17/14 spokes and
aluminum nipples. Some of the nipples were cracked, I replaced them but several nipples are frozen
solid. You can turn them and see the spoke winding up - not good. I tried spraying in tri-flow and
similiar materials but nothing. Do I have to cut the frozen spokes out and replace or is there
something I can put on the nipples to loosen them? thanks to all and I'm not an ace wheel builder or
repair person.

try gentle heat. if they've been thread-locked, it may work. using a
3-sided key rather than 2-sided like park helps too.

M-gineering said:

Quoted message said:

RS said:

I acquired a wheel with a mavic open pro rim, DA7700 front hub,
wheelsmith 14/17/14 spokes and
aluminum nipples. Some of the nipples were cracked, I replaced them
but several nipples are frozen
solid. You can turn them and see the spoke winding up - not good.
I tried spraying in tri-flow and
similiar materials but nothing. Do I have to cut the frozen spokes
out and replace or is there
something I can put on the nipples to loosen them? thanks to all and
I'm not an ace wheel builder or
repair person.

Dear RS,

If the threads on your aluminum nipple have oxidized, then the oxide
layer has expanded with impressive force--you'll have a hell of a time
getting them off with any tricks short of slitting them.

Try heat (ie a propane torch), the different expansion ratio works in
your favor

that too.

Quoted message said:

RS said:

I acquired a wheel with a mavic open pro rim, DA7700 front hub, wheelsmith 14/17/14 spokes and
aluminum nipples. Some of the nipples were cracked, I replaced them but several nipples are frozen
solid. You can turn them and see the spoke winding up - not good. I tried spraying in tri-flow and
similiar materials but nothing. Do I have to cut the frozen spokes out and replace or is there
something I can put on the nipples to loosen them? thanks to all and I'm not an ace wheel builder or
repair person.

Dear RS,

If the threads on your aluminum nipple have oxidized, then the oxide
layer has expanded with impressive force--you'll have a hell of a time
getting them off with any tricks short of slitting them.

Even if there's a way to get your corroded aluminum nipples off
cleanly, your time is worth something, and you still have to get brass
nipples to replace them.

Agreed. If the nips are chemically welded, trying to remove them is an
exercise in futility. Cut 'em out and start fresh.

Quoted message said:

Sapim 14-17 double butted spokes in various lengths, $12.95 for a bag
of 20:

Good spokes, great price.

jim beam said:

Quoted message said:

Try heat (ie a propane torch), the different expansion ratio works in
your favor

that too.

I don't know if you can pull it off with a spoke nipple, but if you
can heat the nipple as opposed to the spoke, you have a better chance
of heat working. You could work from the rim side. Go light, heat is
probably not good for a rim.

The only penetrating oil that I've ever been able to document the
effect of is PB Blast. Not sure how well it works on aluminum.

still just me said:

I don't know if you can pull it off with a spoke nipple, but if you
can heat the nipple as opposed to the spoke, you have a better chance
of heat working.

Howdy,

The coefficient of thermal expansion of aluminum is about
40% greater than that of steel. Finding a way to heat just
the nipple would probably not matter much.

All the best,
--
Kenneth

If you email... Please remove the "SPAMLESS."

"Kenneth" wrote: The coefficient of thermal expansion of aluminum is about

Quoted message said:

40% greater than that of steel. Finding a way to heat just
the nipple would probably not matter much.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
The part of the nipple that is frozen to the spoke is in intimate contact
with it, and the contact area is large, due to the thread profile. So
trying to keep the spoke cooler than the nipple is probably futile. Besides
the 40% edge the aluminum has on expansion, is this: the corrosion that is
working against you is weakened by heat.

Spokes are not so expensive that you can justify a lot of effort to save
them. If you have a hard time bringing yourself to cut the spokes, do this:
Snap a pair of Vise-grips on the spoke, and then REALLY turn the nipple.
The
spoke will slip in the jaws and be damaged. It's a lot easier to snip a
damaged spoke. Or it will break off where it enters the nipple, and you
won't have to snip it. <G>

Heat worked on virtually all of them, thank you. I also used a SpokeKey which
grabs on three sides.

Rick

In article <[email hidden]>,
[email hidden] says...

Quoted message said:

RS said:

I acquired a wheel with a mavic open pro rim, DA7700 front hub,

wheelsmith 14/17/14 spokes and

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

aluminum nipples. Some of the nipples were cracked, I replaced them but

several nipples are frozen

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

solid. You can turn them and see the spoke winding up - not good. I tried

spraying in tri-flow and

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

similiar materials but nothing. Do I have to cut the frozen spokes out and

replace or is there

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

something I can put on the nipples to loosen them? thanks to all and I'm

not an ace wheel builder or

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

repair person.

try gentle heat. if they've been thread-locked, it may work. using a
3-sided key rather than 2-sided like park helps too.

RS said:

Heat worked on virtually all of them, thank you. I also used a SpokeKey which
grabs on three sides.

Rick

you're welcome.

Quoted message said:

In article <[email hidden]>,
[email hidden] says...

Quoted message said:

RS said:

I acquired a wheel with a mavic open pro rim, DA7700 front hub,

wheelsmith 14/17/14 spokes and

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

aluminum nipples. Some of the nipples were cracked, I replaced them but

several nipples are frozen

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

solid. You can turn them and see the spoke winding up - not good. I tried

spraying in tri-flow and

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

similiar materials but nothing. Do I have to cut the frozen spokes out and

replace or is there

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

something I can put on the nipples to loosen them? thanks to all and I'm

not an ace wheel builder or

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

repair person.

try gentle heat. if they've been thread-locked, it may work. using a
3-sided key rather than 2-sided like park helps too.

"still just me" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

jim beam said:

Quoted message said:

Try heat (ie a propane torch), the different expansion ratio works in
your favor

that too.

I don't know if you can pull it off with a spoke nipple, but if you
can heat the nipple as opposed to the spoke, you have a better chance
of heat working. You could work from the rim side. Go light, heat is
probably not good for a rim.

The only penetrating oil that I've ever been able to document the
effect of is PB Blast. Not sure how well it works on aluminum.

The heat treating temperature for most aluminum alloys is around 400° F.
It's easy to exceed that temperature in a localized area of the rim with a
propane torch.

Cut them out, it's cheaper and easier.

Chas.

* * Chas said:

"still just me" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

jim beam said:

> Try heat (ie a propane torch), the different expansion ratio works in
> your favor
>
that too.

I don't know if you can pull it off with a spoke nipple, but if you
can heat the nipple as opposed to the spoke, you have a better chance
of heat working. You could work from the rim side. Go light, heat is
probably not good for a rim.

The only penetrating oil that I've ever been able to document the
effect of is PB Blast. Not sure how well it works on aluminum.

The heat treating temperature for most aluminum alloys is around 400� F.

yes, but for hours, not seconds. and the low temp stuff is for
precipitation, not solution. the minor local heating that will free a
spoke nipple will have no negative impact on a much larger, cold,
conductive rim. and if there were anything, it might even be positive.

Quoted message said:

It's easy to exceed that temperature in a localized area of the rim with a
propane torch.

one that burns 10lbs/hr?

Quoted message said:

Cut them out, it's cheaper and easier.

it's certainly quicker, but for the pedants that /want/ to re-use, use a
small torch or cigarette lighter. or a soldering iron.

* * Chas said:

The heat treating temperature for most aluminum alloys is around 400° F.
It's easy to exceed that temperature in a localized area of the rim with a
propane torch.

If you have difficulty when pointing the flame at distinguising between
nipple and rim, you should consider another hobby

--
/Marten (can't be @rsed to even take the tyre off) Gerritsen

info(apestaartje)m-gineering(punt)nl

"RS" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I acquired a wheel with a mavic open pro rim, DA7700 front hub, wheelsmith
14/17/14 spokes and
aluminum nipples. Some of the nipples were cracked, I replaced them but
several nipples are frozen
solid. You can turn them and see the spoke winding up - not good. I
tried spraying in tri-flow and
similiar materials but nothing. Do I have to cut the frozen spokes out
and replace or is there
something I can put on the nipples to loosen them? thanks to all and I'm
not an ace wheel builder or
repair person.

I had this problem once myself, I left her and found a hot blooded woman,
now all is right with the world.

RS said:

I acquired a wheel with a mavic open pro rim, DA7700 front hub, wheelsmith14/17/14 spokes and
aluminum nipples.  Some of the nipples were cracked, I replaced them butseveral nipples are frozen
solid.  You can turn them and see the spoke winding up - not good.   Itried spraying in tri-flow and
similiar materials but nothing.   Do I have to cut the frozen spokes outand replace or is there
something I can put on the nipples to loosen them?  thanks to all and I'm not an ace wheel builder or
repair person.

have you tried T-9 ? this chain lubricant work like magic.