Re: narrow hub racing coker

Jim said:

Maybe if Koxx, Torker, Suzue, Qu-Ax, Sun, Profile Bedford and the all
the other unicycle manufacturers start calling their hubs narrow-flange
then UDC will stop confusing you by calling the UDC hub wide-flange.

jim

Heh, no one's talking flanges here. It's the bearing to bearing
distance. The extra wide hub has a wider distance, most hubs are the
same distance as the UDC "wide"

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Its confusing in the first place since most UDC hubs are "wide" hubs
(for all size unicycles) and then there's the "super wide" hub for the
36er which some people just call the wide hub when talking about a 36"
wheel. Luckily, most everyone I know with a 36" has the same hub. So
theres:

"normal" hub (original coker stock)
wide hub (stock for most UDC models)
super wide (stock UDC 36" wheelsets)

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This is a complex subject, but basically

a) there is no difference in the spoke length
b) there is no difference in the areodynamics (the tire/rim/frame are
probably 3 orders of magnitude greater effect)
c) there is significantly more energy lost in wheel flex with a
narrower hub
d) if you are racing in mixed terrain, the narrower hub will eliminate
or drastically reduce the effectiveness of a brake
e) there is tire/leg interference that will limit the hub's narrowness
anyway.

If you are trying to put your feet closer together, then mess with your
cranks and crank Q, not your hub width.

My two cents!

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+1 Dave. Why put offset cranks on a narrow hub, when you can use
straight cranks on a wide(r) hub?

And it's too bad folks keep using undefined terminology. If a "wide"
hub meant to all a bearing width of 60 to 99mm, and a "superwide" as
anything over 100mm, then we'd know what we're talking about. But as it
is, who knows what "wide" means? Why don't we say a "100 hub" instead
of "superwide"?

It's just like the maddening terms "commuter", "cruiser" and "touring"
as used on UDC, when they should just group unicycles by clearly stated
wheel size.

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And having said that, +1 to GizmoDuck too. It's just that hub flange
width is always a tradeoff, and seems to be a very personal preference
regardless of pros & cons!

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I love my smaller hub, I don't know which one is it, but its not the
super wide thats on the Nimbuses! I also use cranks with as little q as
I can find. I like it alot, the less my feet stick out, the more I like
it. I only ride my 36er on the road, and other smooth surfaces, so its
perfect for me. I also don't have any problem with super tight turns. I
do/used to do, alot of stupid stuff on my coker and no problems.

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And as for bending the Nimbus frame to accept a narrower bearing
spacing, yes you can do it, just be sure to adjust the bearing holders
themselves to be vertical (a padded vice works well), after bending in
the downtubes from the top.

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unisk8r said:

And having said that, +1 to GizmoDuck too. It's just that hub flange
width is always a tradeoff, and seems to be a very personal preference
regardless of pros & cons!

Hey, I'm all for flanges that are as wide as possible, just not as long
as it doesn't affect the actual Q-factor. I know the KH and Nimbus
ISIS hubs have very little clearance between the flange and the
bearings in order to maximise the flange width. I think the KOXX ISIS
hubs which have the same bearing spacing have flanges that are closer
together.

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GizmoDuck said:

Hey, I'm all for flanges that are as wide as possible, just not as long
as it doesn't affect the actual Q-factor. I know the KH and Nimbus
ISIS hubs have very little clearance between the flange and the
bearings in order to maximise the flange width. I think the KOXX ISIS
hubs which have the same bearing spacing have flanges that are closer
together.

Remember that flange width is actually flange diameter, and flange
spacing is the distance between the flanges. unisk8r was using them
distinctly, but I think the following discussion didn't really.
Unicycle flanges tend to be all the same diameter, which is huge
compared to many bicycle flanges. Unicycle flanges correctly tend to
be larger, like track bike flanges, because a unicycle generates a lot
more axial torque than the typical road bike with gears and rim
brakes.

Flange diameter is a only minor player in the wheel stiffness/strength
geometry of flange spacing and ERD.

Flange spacing is roughly equivalent to hub width.

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U-Turn said:

Flange spacing is roughly equivalent to hub width.

Yes I know that, but there are hubs which have the flanges very close
to the bearings. I know this because I had to make sure there was
enough clearance for the Ti frame I'm getting from Triton. There is
not much room for error.

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So in terms of this thread, it sounds like "narrow" means a standard
small-wheel unicycle hub. That's what my Coker has (that's what they
all had for the first few years). I've ridden it thousands of miles,
and on plenty of dirt though not in an abusive way. No problems. As
long as you don't beat it up with side forces you should be in pretty
good shape to just use a "regular" unicycle axle.

And I'm glad to not feel the need for a splined axle & cranks. I'm not
aware of any splined system (for unicycles) that's built with speed and
lightness in mind. In fact, the only problem I've had with my Coker's
hub (not to mention the *cottered* hub on my 45" big wheel from 1982)
is the worry of wear & tear if I change the cranks a lot. What, are
people breaking axles and/or cranks on their Cokers?

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johnfoss said:

And I'm glad to not feel the need for a splined axle & cranks. I'm not
aware of any splined system (for unicycles) that's built with speed and
lightness in mind. In fact, the only problem I've had with my Coker's
hub (not to mention the *cottered* hub on my 45" big wheel from 1982)
is the worry of wear & tear if I change the cranks a lot. What, are
people breaking axles and/or cranks on their Cokers?

There is no reason why we can't have a lightweight splined hub except
that the powers that be only seem interested in catering for the Trials
and Freestyle market. Most of the top lightweight bike cranks and
bottom brackets are splined.

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Ken, if I came across as insulting, I'm sorry; that was not my
intention. It just seemed that the terms were being confused
throughout the thread.

One reason for uni.com's term "wide hub" is that the standard old-style
Coker Big One hub is narrower (flange-to-flange) than both the Suzue
unicycle hub and the uni.com hub. This is one reason that wheel is so
weak.

If you are properly cleaning and lubing the tapers and threads when you
change cranks, and using a torque wrench, there should be very little
wear and tear when changing cranks.

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It's ok Dave, I wasn't offended. I think we both know what we're
meaning when talking about flange widths. As you know I'm not a big
fan of the superwide hubs but we've gone through this before on many
other threads.

The current 'wide' hub is a pretty standard size in terms of bearing
spacing, regardless of the flange width. Not many frames need to be
bent in order clip onto the bearings. It's only the 'superwide' hubs
that need special frames to accomodate the wider hubs. So that's why I
think they should end the confusion and just call the 'wide' hub a std
hub because you can use a pretty standard frame with it.

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Ken:

How vas it to "Crank" up in the alps on a narrow hub?

I only got 2 Coker's, both with wide hub. One width 135mm and another
with 125mm bearing to bearing width. I do a lot of "Crank"-ing here in
Norway in the mountains. One of my friends have a unicycle width narrow
hub. I think it is a 100mm bearing to bearing width hub. He manages to
go some quicker easier than me (on tarmac, flat and 125mm cranks). But
when going uphill he seems to lose the speed very fast, compared to me
with the wider hub and the same crank length 125mm. He must also
tension the spokes very often. I have never tensioned a spoke on my
wheels. And have done nearly 10.000km on gravel rods with a lot of
cranking.

I maybe build a wheel with narrow hub just to use at flat tarmac. When
I do Coker Muni and use 150mm cranks and do climbs 10-15% the wheel do
a lot of flex. I don't think a narrow hub can tackle that. My weight is
82kg.

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I don't think you can compare your speed and climbing ability with your
friend. Maybe you're just a better climber than him!

I had no trouble with the Std UDC hub on the Alps Unitour. It climbed
and descended pretty well. I've probably had the wheel trued twice
since I had it built 4yrs ago. I weight 58kg.

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GizmoDuck said:

I don't think you can compare your speed and climbing ability with your
friend. Maybe you're just a better climber than him!

I had no trouble with the Std UDC hub on the Alps Unitour. It climbed
and descended pretty well. I've probably had the wheel trued twice
since I had it built 4yrs ago. I weight 58kg.

had it trued? at a LBS or a uni expert?

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scotthue said:

had it trued? at a LBS or a uni expert?

LBS. Best wheelbuilder in town

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GizmoDuck said:

LBS. Best wheelbuilder in town

Did he use some sort of custom stand or just by eyeball

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