Road Cycling · Public discussion

Bike Lanes

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Road Cycling
Published
13 February 2008
Last activity
18 February 2008
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Harry Brogan
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  1. Here is the city of Lincoln, Nebraskas' solution to bike lanes.
    Please take note when you look at the photo that the bike lanes are
    located in the MIDDLE of the street. That's right....THE MIDDLE!!!!
    And the other problem with these is that they are located on very busy
    downtown streets that are also a BUS ROUTE. It's ALWAYS fun to get a
    blast of exhaust fumes from the buses when that start off from the
    bust stop or light. And they are terrible for getting cut off by
    vehicles turning in front of you.

    http://www.lincoln.ne.gov/city/pworks/business/park/news/2007/feb07/index.htm

  2. Harry Brogan said:

    Here is the city of Lincoln, Nebraskas' solution to bike lanes.
    Please take note when you look at the photo that the bike lanes are
    located in the MIDDLE of the street. That's right....THE MIDDLE!!!!
    And the other problem with these is that they are located on very busy
    downtown streets that are also a BUS ROUTE. It's ALWAYS fun to get a
    blast of exhaust fumes from the buses when that start off from the
    bust stop or light. And they are terrible for getting cut off by
    vehicles turning in front of you.

    http://www.lincoln.ne.gov/city/pworks/business/park/news/2007/feb07/index.htm

    Being in New York City I can certainly understand the bus fume
    comment. I'd rather ride in the country of course, but my commute
    takes me to downtown so that's where I need the bike lanes.

    The center of the street is an interesting concept and might work out
    in areas of fairly low traffic. At least you're away from the #1
    threat, being doored. You also won't get hit by turning cars. I don't
    think it would work out well in NYC though. I really don't like the
    idea of being out in the middle of an avenue with cars, trucks, and
    cabs zipping by on both sides and crossing over the bike lane.

  3. Harry Brogan said:

    Please take note when you look at the photo that the bike lanes are
    located in the MIDDLE of the street. That's right....THE MIDDLE!!!!

    This actually works better than you think. We have a very busy avenue
    with the bike corridor in the middle. You get used to it. It helps to
    wear one of those fluorescent vests, like the work crews do... And it
    really helps if your city overdoes the signage, paints the lane
    perimeters BOLDLY, and paints LOTS of cyclist icons on the pavement.

    It's not very good at night.

  4. "Harry Brogan" wrote: (clip) That's right....THE MIDDLE!!!! (clip)
    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
    Sausalito, CA has a raised median barrier approximately one lane wide down
    the middle of their main street. Many cyclists ride there by choice, even
    though it is not legal. It looks safe to me--the cyclists are in plain
    sight, and they don't share the space with cars. As long as they use good
    judgement getting out there and getting off, I don't see a problem.


  5. Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    Please take note when you look at the photo that the bike lanes are
    located in the MIDDLE of the street. That's right....THE MIDDLE!!!!

    This actually works better than you think. We have a very busy avenue
    with the bike corridor in the middle. You get used to it. It helps to
    wear one of those fluorescent vests, like the work crews do... And it
    really helps if your city overdoes the signage, paints the lane
    perimeters BOLDLY, and paints LOTS of cyclist icons on the pavement.

    And I'll bet you don't find any dog-walkers or baby-stroller joggers in the
    middle of the street like I do on the bike lanes here marked "Bicycles
    Only!"

    Pat in TX

  6. Once you past the idea that different parts of the road of are for
    different types of vehicles what difference does it make whether it's
    a little strip down the outside or a little strip down the inside.
    It's the getting past being relegated to a little strip that is a
    bigger issue.

    We should put the cars in air tight tubes to capture all the CO and
    let the bikes, peds & horses have the whole road.

  7. "DennisTheBald" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    Once you past the idea that different parts of the road of are for
    different types of vehicles what difference does it make whether it's
    a little strip down the outside or a little strip down the inside.
    It's the getting past being relegated to a little strip that is a
    bigger issue.

    The main issue with non-standard places to put bikes (or cars) is that the
    only thing that keeps us all alive on the road is predictability. Rules &
    standards that enforce an order to how things happen. If you introduce
    something different, people may do unexpected things.

    Quoted message said:

    We should put the cars in air tight tubes to capture all the CO and
    let the bikes, peds & horses have the whole road.

    No argument on that one.

    --Mike Jacoubowsky
    Chain Reaction Bicycles
    www.ChainReaction.com
    Redwood City & Los Altos, CA USA

  8. Will said:
    Harry Brogan said:

    Please take note when you look at the photo that the bike lanes are
    located in the MIDDLE of the street. That's right....THE MIDDLE!!!!

    This actually works better than you think. We have a very busy avenue
    with the bike corridor in the middle. You get used to it. It helps to
    wear one of those fluorescent vests, like the work crews do... And it
    really helps if your city overdoes the signage, paints the lane
    perimeters BOLDLY, and paints LOTS of cyclist icons on the pavement.

    It's not very good at night.

    Well...it's NOT very well marked as the vehicles cross it so often
    that the paint is already worn away. Signage???......what's that?????
    It was a good idea that somehow got a little lost in the planning
    stages. Personally I think it was a case of too many chiefs and not
    enough little indians......

  9. Leo Lichtman said:

    "Harry Brogan" wrote: (clip) That's right....THE MIDDLE!!!! (clip)
    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
    Sausalito, CA has a raised median barrier approximately one lane wide down
    the middle of their main street. Many cyclists ride there by choice, even
    though it is not legal. It looks safe to me--the cyclists are in plain
    sight, and they don't share the space with cars. As long as they use good
    judgement getting out there and getting off, I don't see a problem.


    Here is an example of a cyclist riding a raised median:
    <http://digave.com/videos/jersey.mpg>.

    --
    Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
    The weather is here, wish you were beautiful

  10. In article <[email hidden]>,

    dgk said:
    Harry Brogan said:

    Here is the city of Lincoln, Nebraskas' solution to bike lanes.
    Please take note when you look at the photo that the bike lanes are
    located in the MIDDLE of the street. That's right....THE MIDDLE!!!!
    And the other problem with these is that they are located on very busy
    downtown streets that are also a BUS ROUTE. It's ALWAYS fun to get a
    blast of exhaust fumes from the buses when that start off from the
    bust stop or light. And they are terrible for getting cut off by
    vehicles turning in front of you.

    http://www.lincoln.ne.gov/city/pworks/business/park/news/2007/feb07/index.htm

    Being in New York City I can certainly understand the bus fume
    comment. I'd rather ride in the country of course, but my commute
    takes me to downtown so that's where I need the bike lanes.

    The center of the street is an interesting concept and might work out
    in areas of fairly low traffic. At least you're away from the #1
    threat, being doored. You also won't get hit by turning cars.

    You'll get hit by cars turning left.

    --
    Ryan Cousineau [email hidden] http://www.wiredcola.com/
    "In other newsgroups, they killfile trolls."
    "In rec.bicycles.racing, we coach them."

  11. Ryan Cousineau said:

    In article <[email hidden]>,

    dgk said:

    On Wed, 13 Feb 2008 04:50:46 -0600, Harry Brogan
    <[email hidden]> wrote:

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    Here is the city of Lincoln, Nebraskas' solution to bike lanes.
    Please take note when you look at the photo that the bike lanes are
    located in the MIDDLE of the street. That's right....THE MIDDLE!!!!
    And the other problem with these is that they are located on very busy
    downtown streets that are also a BUS ROUTE. It's ALWAYS fun to get a
    blast of exhaust fumes from the buses when that start off from the
    bust stop or light. And they are terrible for getting cut off by
    vehicles turning in front of you.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    http://www.lincoln.ne.gov/city/pworks/business/park/news/2007/feb07/i...

    Quoted message said:

    Being in New York City I can certainly understand the bus fume
    comment. I'd rather ride in the country of course, but my commute
    takes me to downtown so that's where I need the bike lanes.

    Quoted message said:

    The center of the street is an interesting concept and might work out
    in areas of fairly low traffic. At least you're away from the #1
    threat, being doored. You also won't get hit by turning cars.

    You'll get hit by cars turning left.

    You'll also have no "bail out" path if something really weird
    happens. That could be something as weird as a drunk using the bike
    lane for passing, or something as common as an emergency vehicle
    blasting down the street.

    Like almost all "original" traffic designs, it looks blatantly stupid
    and dangerous to me. Treat bikes as vehicles and be done with it.

    - Frank Krygowski

  12. Tom Sherman said:
    Leo Lichtman said:

    "Harry Brogan" wrote: (clip) That's right....THE MIDDLE!!!! (clip)
    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
    Sausalito, CA has a raised median barrier approximately one lane wide down
    the middle of their main street. Many cyclists ride there by choice, even
    though it is not legal. It looks safe to me--the cyclists are in plain
    sight, and they don't share the space with cars. As long as they use good
    judgement getting out there and getting off, I don't see a problem.


    Here is an example of a cyclist riding a raised median:
    <http://digave.com/videos/jersey.mpg>.

    I think that's a little narrower than the bike lanes.

  13. Mike Jacoubowsky said:

    "DennisTheBald" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    Once you past the idea that different parts of the road of are for
    different types of vehicles what difference does it make whether it's
    a little strip down the outside or a little strip down the inside.
    It's the getting past being relegated to a little strip that is a
    bigger issue.

    The main issue with non-standard places to put bikes (or cars) is that the
    only thing that keeps us all alive on the road is predictability. Rules &
    standards that enforce an order to how things happen. If you introduce
    something different, people may do unexpected things.

    Quoted message said:

    We should put the cars in air tight tubes to capture all the CO and
    let the bikes, peds & horses have the whole road.

    No argument on that one.

    I have a problem with the horses.

  14. frkrygow said:

    Like almost all "original" traffic designs, it looks blatantly stupid and
    dangerous to me. Treat bikes as vehicles and be done with it.

    Ditto that!

    Matt O.


  15. Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    Like almost all "original" traffic designs, it looks blatantly stupid and
    dangerous to me. Treat bikes as vehicles and be done with it.

    Ditto that!

    Matt O.

    You know what the real problem is? The law does treat bicycles as
    vehicles---it's the stupid public who continue to treat bicycles as toys!
    Yesterday, I saw 4 adults riding bikes---on the sidewalk! Parents teach
    their kids to ride against traffic in Texas, and I see teens every day
    riding across the highways on their little 20" wheel bikes without a care.
    They evidently think they are invisible. And, to the cops, they are! When
    have you ever seen a cop telling a kid to ride with traffic or tellling
    adults to get off the sidewalk and into the street?

    Okay, rant over.

    Pat in TX

    Quoted message said:


  16. Pat said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    Like almost all "original" traffic designs, it looks blatantly stupid and
    dangerous to me.  Treat bikes as vehicles and be done with it.

    Quoted message said:

    Ditto that!

    Quoted message said:

    Matt O.

    You know what the real problem is? The law does treat bicycles as
    vehicles---it's the stupid public who continue to treat bicycles as toys!
    Yesterday, I saw 4 adults riding bikes---on the sidewalk!  Parents teach
    their kids to ride against traffic in Texas, and I see teens every day
    riding across the highways on their little 20" wheel bikes without a care.
    They evidently think they are invisible. And, to the cops, they are! When
    have you ever seen a cop telling a kid to ride with traffic or tellling
    adults to get off the sidewalk and into the street?

    Okay, rant over.

    Pat in TX

    - Hide quoted text -

    - Show quoted text -

    Never. I have, however, been told to get off the street and onto the
    sidewalk by the police. Go figure.

  17. Pat said:

    You know what the real problem is? The law does treat bicycles as
    vehicles---it's the stupid public who continue to treat bicycles as toys!
    Yesterday, I saw 4 adults riding bikes---on the sidewalk! Parents teach
    their kids to ride against traffic in Texas, and I see teens every day
    riding across the highways on their little 20" wheel bikes without a care.
    They evidently think they are invisible. And, to the cops, they are! When
    have you ever seen a cop telling a kid to ride with traffic or tellling
    adults to get off the sidewalk and into the street?

    So get some bike rodeos going in your schools. Police usually like
    being involved in such things.

    The best way to educate adults is through their kids.

    Matt O.

  18. Frank Krygowski said:
    Quoted message said:

    You'll get hit by cars turning left.

    Quoted message said:

    You'll also have no "bail out" path if something really weird
    happens. That could be something as weird as a drunk using the bike
    lane for passing, or something as common as an emergency vehicle
    blasting down the street.

    Quoted message said:

    Like almost all "original" traffic designs, it looks blatantly
    stupid and dangerous to me. Treat bikes as vehicles and be done
    with it.

    Sounds good but it won't fly. How about a few things that you should
    be able to do on a bicycle and not with a car? I ride up the sidewalk
    on my street where there is no curb lane for bicycles during rush
    hour, rubber tire marks mark the curb 4-lanes of traffic.

    I ride on the double center line on our down town main street to avoid
    getting doored or parked by a car heading into a diagonal parking
    space.

    At major intersection of multi-lane roads, should I cross when the
    pedestrian light is green or when cars are moving in all directions?

    We have bicycle/pedestrian signals that are tripped by a button or
    bicycle detector loops so we can cross a six lane road in a direction
    that allows no cross traffic to motor vehicles.

    At a place with a no u-turn sign, can I change directions on my bicycle?

    There are myriad such differences that need addressing. If you doubt
    that, you should ride inside the university bounds here and note that
    there are no stop signs and no cars on streets that were formerly
    hazardous. There is no keep to the right hand rule there and it works
    well.

    Special rules apply even for motorcycles, such riding between lanes of
    traffic in California highways. Don't try that with your car.

    It isn't as simple as some would have you believe.

    Jobst Brandt

  19. Quoted message said:

    Like almost all "original" traffic designs, it looks blatantly stupid
    and dangerous to me. Treat bikes as vehicles and be done with it.

    Agreed on the stupid design. But as a cyclist I would prefer to
    maintain the status quo in which cyclists have both vehicular rights
    on the roadways and extra-vehicular access many other places. 'Treat
    bikes as vehicles and be done with it' represents a step down for
    bicyclists who currently enjoy more freedom than any other class of
    road user.

    Robert


  20. Quoted message said:

    Agreed on the stupid design. But as a cyclist I would prefer to
    maintain the status quo in which cyclists have both vehicular rights
    on the roadways and extra-vehicular access many other places. 'Treat
    bikes as vehicles and be done with it' represents a step down for
    bicyclists who currently enjoy more freedom than any other class of
    road user.

    Robert

    Well, you cannot stop a bicycle from having "extra-vehicular access many
    other places", so the "stupid design" wouldn't affect that one way or the
    other.

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