Perhaps she should have worn a helmet

In message <[email hidden]>

David Hansen said:

<http://www.eveningtimes.co.uk/news/display.var.2040197.0.0.php#>
outlines the sad case of someone who fell down some stairs.

I wonder if the usual suspects will be exploiting this as part of a
campaign to enforce pedestrian helmets? I suspect not, partly in
deference to family and friends of the deceased. It is a pity the
usual suspects are not as respectful of cyclists and their family &
friends.

Whilst I understand your point, it appears that you are exploting this as
part of an anti cycle helmet campaign, which is IMHO wrong.

Martin.

Martin Dann said:

In message <[email hidden]>

David Hansen said:

<http://www.eveningtimes.co.uk/news/display.var.2040197.0.0.php#>
outlines the sad case of someone who fell down some stairs.

I wonder if the usual suspects will be exploiting this as part of a
campaign to enforce pedestrian helmets? I suspect not, partly in
deference to family and friends of the deceased. It is a pity the
usual suspects are not as respectful of cyclists and their family &
friends.

Whilst I understand your point, it appears that you are exploting this as
part of an anti cycle helmet campaign, which is IMHO wrong.

Not so much an anti-cycle helmet point as an anti-(rabidly-pro cycle
helmet advocacy) point. There /is/ a distinction.

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net [email hidden] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

Peter Clinch said:

Martin Dann said:

In message <[email hidden]>

David Hansen said:

<http://www.eveningtimes.co.uk/news/display.var.2040197.0.0.php#>
outlines the sad case of someone who fell down some stairs.

I wonder if the usual suspects will be exploiting this as part of a
campaign to enforce pedestrian helmets? I suspect not, partly in
deference to family and friends of the deceased. It is a pity the
usual suspects are not as respectful of cyclists and their family &
friends.

Whilst I understand your point, it appears that you are exploting this as
part of an anti cycle helmet campaign, which is IMHO wrong.

Not so much an anti-cycle helmet point as an anti-(rabidly-pro cycle
helmet advocacy) point. There /is/ a distinction.

Pete.

Which is why I'm sure he won't mind me saying tat I'll carry on wearing
mine, although the story reminded me how much I wish Sandy Denny were
still alive. And that thought normally comes to me on an August weekend....

Roger Thorpe

Roger Thorpe said:

Which is why I'm sure he won't mind me saying tat I'll carry on wearing
mine

Can't think he would as long as you don't cite certificate-vacant
reasons for other people to. Only reason /you/ need is just wanting to
wear one.

Quoted message said:

although the story reminded me how much I wish Sandy Denny were
still alive. And that thought normally comes to me on an August weekend....

350 folk a year in the UK are killed in trips and falls, with stairs
being a significant part of the problem AIUI.

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net [email hidden] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

On Wed, 13 Feb 2008 12:49:31 GMT someone who may be Martin Dann
<[email hidden]> wrote this:-

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I wonder if the usual suspects will be exploiting this as part of a
campaign to enforce pedestrian helmets? I suspect not, partly in
deference to family and friends of the deceased. It is a pity the
usual suspects are not as respectful of cyclists and their family &
friends.

Whilst I understand your point, it appears that you are exploting this as
part of an anti cycle helmet campaign,

Incorrect. I am simply pointing out the flaws in the helmet lobby's
arguments. It is not an anti-helmet argument, it is an anti-helmet
lobby argument. The difference is important.

In normal circumstances I would be entirely indifferent about
whether people want to wear a silly bit of plastic on their heads
when cycling or not. I am pro-choice and it is up to them. However,
we are not in normal circumstances, because government has said that
when enough people have been "encouraged" to wear silly bits of
plastic on their head when cycling government will force all to wear
silly bits of plastic on their head when cycling.

As a result of this government policy I have modified my stance if
indifference so that I occasionally remind those who wish to wear
silly bits of plastic on their head when cycling of government
policy. It is then up to them to cogitate on this fact. When/if
government changes its policy I will change my stance. The choice is
theirs.

Of course if someone wants to wear a silly bit of plastic on their
head then it is best if they adjusted it so that it stood some
change of doing something. To this end I occasionally spend some
time adjusting cycle helmets for people.

--
David Hansen, Edinburgh
I will *always* explain revoked encryption keys, unless RIP prevents me
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2000/00023--e.htm#54

Peter Clinch said:

Roger Thorpe said:

Which is why I'm sure he won't mind me saying that I'll carry on wearing
mine

Can't think he would as long as you don't cite certificate-vacant
reasons for other people to. Only reason /you/ need is just wanting to
wear one.
Pete.

There's another reason, and it's more powerful..... "Because My
Girlfriend Says So."

When it comes to safety though, the best investment that I've made in
the past year has been a high viz vest from homebase.
I'm amazed at the difference it makes, and I don't know why I didn't do
it thirty years ago. I haven't heard anyone say 'SMIDSY' for months.
Roger Thorpe

Roger Thorpe said:

There's another reason, and it's more powerful..... "Because My
Girlfriend Says So."

i.e., you want to wear it, and you know you do as you've been told... ;-)

Quoted message said:

When it comes to safety though, the best investment that I've made in
the past year has been a high viz vest from homebase.
I'm amazed at the difference it makes

I sometimes wear hi-viz stuff, sometimes don't. Doesn't seem to make
any difference to the space or courtesy I'm given. The two nasty
accidents with other vehicles I've had I was wearing hi-viz on the
daylight occasion and reflectives on the after-dark occasion...

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net [email hidden] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

David Hansen said:

<http://www.eveningtimes.co.uk/news/display.var.2040197.0.0.php#>
outlines the sad case of someone who fell down some stairs.

I wonder if the usual suspects will be exploiting this as part of a
campaign to enforce pedestrian helmets? I suspect not, partly in
deference to family and friends of the deceased. It is a pity the
usual suspects are not as respectful of cyclists and their family &
friends.

I wonder if the usual suspect (Hansen) will be exploiting this as part
of some unknown point he wishes to score?

It would seem so.

--
Paul - [censored]

'96/'97 Landrover Discovery 300 Tdi 'Big and Butch'
'98 Suzuki DR 200 Djebel 'Small but perfectly formed'
Dyna Tech Cro-Mo comp "When I feel fit enough'

a high viz vest from homebase.

Quoted message said:

I'm amazed at the difference it makes

Difference from what? From nothing or from some alternative? I've always
relied on one of those reflective yellow sam brownes - do you think a full
vest makes a difference? Does anyone know if there's any hard evidence one
way or t'other? (I kind of like the SB for its ease of use, but if there was
a significant diff I might be tempted to get the full monte.)

spokes said:

a high viz vest from homebase.

Quoted message said:

I'm amazed at the difference it makes

Difference from what? From nothing or from some alternative? I've always
relied on one of those reflective yellow sam brownes - do you think a full
vest makes a difference? Does anyone know if there's any hard evidence one
way or t'other? (I kind of like the SB for its ease of use, but if there was
a significant diff I might be tempted to get the full monte.)

Of course it's entirely subjective,but...
I previously used a Sam Brown too, but only at night. The reason I
bought the high viz vest was that the SB broke. I took to wearing it
during the day and, unlike Peter I seem to find that I get noticed more
on the roundabouts and given a bit more space by overtakers(with some
exceptions of course). I seems almost as if the vest reminds them that
I'm vunerable.
This is Coventry though, I don't think we've got so many antagonised
motorists as you might find in london.
Roger Thorpe

On 13 Feb, 14:21, Roger Thorpe <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Peter Clinch said:

Martin Dann wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

In message <[email hidden]>
         David Hansen <[email hidden]> wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

><http://www.eveningtimes.co.uk/news/display.var.2040197.0.0.php#>
>outlines the sad case of someone who fell down some stairs.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

>I wonder if the usual suspects will be exploiting this as part of a
>campaign to enforce pedestrian helmets? I suspect not, partly in
>deference to family and friends of the deceased. It is a pity the
>usual suspects are not as respectful of cyclists and their family &
>friends.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Whilst I understand your point, it appears that you are exploting this as
part of an anti cycle helmet campaign, which is IMHO wrong.

Quoted message said:

Not so much an anti-cycle helmet point as an anti-(rabidly-pro cycle
helmet advocacy) point.  There /is/ a distinction.

Quoted message said:

Pete.

Which is why I'm sure he won't mind me saying tat I'll carry on wearing
mine, although the story reminded me how much I wish Sandy Denny were
still alive. And that thought normally comes to me on an August weekend.....

Roger Thorpe- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

who knows where the time goes?

Roger Thorpe said:

spokes said:

a high viz vest from homebase.

Quoted message said:

I'm amazed at the difference it makes

Difference from what? From nothing or from some alternative? I've always
relied on one of those reflective yellow sam brownes - do you think a full
vest makes a difference? Does anyone know if there's any hard evidence one
way or t'other? (I kind of like the SB for its ease of use, but if there was
a significant diff I might be tempted to get the full monte.)

Of course it's entirely subjective,but...
I previously used a Sam Brown too, but only at night. The reason I
bought the high viz vest was that the SB broke. I took to wearing it
during the day and, unlike Peter I seem to find that I get noticed more
on the roundabouts and given a bit more space by overtakers(with some
exceptions of course). I seems almost as if the vest reminds them that
I'm vunerable.
This is Coventry though, I don't think we've got so many antagonised
motorists as you might find in london.
Roger Thorpe

i don't get any problems on the edge of london, mind you i tend to hold
my postion on the road, nor do i dart for gaps, also i tend to pull away
from lights sharpish.

roger
--
www.rogermerriman.com

Paul - [censored] writtificated

Quoted message said:

unknown point

You're pretending to be stupid and you know exactly what his point is. He
makes a valid point, tho admittedly not made in a particularly nice way.

On Wed, 13 Feb 2008 17:21:36 -0000 someone who may be "spokes"
<[email hidden]> wrote this:-

Quoted message said:

I've always
relied on one of those reflective yellow sam brownes - do you think a full
vest makes a difference? Does anyone know if there's any hard evidence one
way or t'other? (I kind of like the SB for its ease of use, but if there was
a significant diff I might be tempted to get the full monte.)

At the time Death on the Streets was written, I guess the early
1990s (can't be bothered to look), the only evidence the Department
of Motoring could come up with was based on research of passing
distances by motorists of cyclists.

This indicated that full sleeves made a difference. Not much use in
the summer.

--
David Hansen, Edinburgh
I will *always* explain revoked encryption keys, unless RIP prevents me
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2000/00023--e.htm#54

x-no-archive:Sir Jeremy said:

Quoted message said:

Which is why I'm sure he won't mind me saying tat I'll carry on wearing
mine, although the story reminded me how much I wish Sandy Denny were
still alive. And that thought normally comes to me on an August weekend....

Roger Thorpe- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

who knows where the time goes?

No more sad refrains.

x-no-archive:Peter Clinch said:

Quoted message said:

although the story reminded me how much I wish Sandy Denny were
still alive. And that thought normally comes to me on an August weekend....

350 folk a year in the UK are killed in trips and falls, with stairs
being a significant part of the problem AIUI.

Alcohol may have played a part in Sandy's demise. Perhaps it should be a
requirement to wear a lid whilst boozing.
..

x-no-archive:Roger Thorpe said:

And that thought normally comes to me on an August weekend....

Do you mean Cropredy? Is it still thriving?

Jim Harvest said:

x-no-archive:Sir Jeremy said:

Quoted message said:

Which is why I'm sure he won't mind me saying tat I'll carry on wearing
mine, although the story reminded me how much I wish Sandy Denny were
still alive. And that thought normally comes to me on an August
weekend....

Roger Thorpe- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

who knows where the time goes?

No more sad refrains.

Thackray?

Jim Harvest said:

x-no-archive:Roger Thorpe said:

And that thought normally comes to me on an August weekend....

Do you mean Cropredy? Is it still thriving?

Yes I do, and thriving it is. Last year sold out in advance, it was the
band's 40th anniversary. ) It's looked pretty full each time I've been
there (only since 2000, so I'm a newcomer). The surviving members of the
"Leige and Leif" line-up got together to perform the album,(A DVD is now
available and on my birthday list, maybe we'll get "Full House" this year.
The guest bands seem to get better (and greyer) each year too.
Just in case you missed some other good news, Swarb has had a lung
transplant and is now up and running, his band is called..... Lazarus!
There's a forum called Talkawhile if you want to find out more. They
seem to be a nice bunch there, although John Martyn seemed to polarise
opinion.
Roger Thorpe