Gentle morning commute... Grrr

PeteSig said:

Rest of the ride was much more peaceful. Even got a nice draft off a bus
moving slowly in flowing traffic But it was a wake up call, to be
ever-vigilant.

Glad to hear you survived intact.

As far as ever vigilance goes, one must never forget!

I had one the other day.. waiting at the lights for through traffic
so I can turn right.. get a green arrow, but notice that BMW
convertible coming in other direction doesn't appear to be slowing...
some seconds (!) after my green, she sails through her red light -
with a trail of my expletives ringing in her ear.

I honestly don't think idiots like this even realise their mistakes
half the time.

Duncan said:

I had one the other day.. waiting at the lights for through traffic
so I can turn right.. get a green arrow, but notice that BMW
convertible coming in other direction doesn't appear to be slowing...
some seconds (!) after my green, she sails through her red light -
with a trail of my expletives ringing in her ear.

I honestly don't think idiots like this even realise their mistakes
half the time.

Well yes, of course not!

BMW = Bicyclist Make Way

--
Cheers
Peter

~~~ ~ _@
~~ ~ _- \,
~~ (*)/ (*)

PeteSig said:

Duncan said:

I had one the other day.. waiting at the lights for through traffic
so I can turn right.. get a green arrow, but notice that BMW
convertible coming in other direction doesn't appear to be slowing...
some seconds (!) after my green, she sails through her red light -
with a trail of my expletives ringing in her ear.

I honestly don't think idiots like this even realise their mistakes
half the time.

Well yes, of course not!

BMW = Bicyclist Make Way

I sympathize Mr Sig, I've often wondered what device in a car seems to
dis-engage 90 % of the driver's brain when they turn the key. I f--- up
when I'm driving occasionally, but I never commit faux pas of the
magnitude I see on the roads whether on two or four wheels.
Cheers,
Ray

In aus.bicycle on Tue, 12 Feb 2008 07:13:01 +1100

ray said:

I sympathize Mr Sig, I've often wondered what device in a car seems to
dis-engage 90 % of the driver's brain when they turn the key. I f--- up

I believe it is because for the majority of people driving is an
unavoidable boring chore. It's to get from where they are to where
they want to be, it's an unavoidable waste of time and they don't want
to think about it really.

There's also the active vs passive safety thing. If you are on two
wheels, powered or unpowered, you realise there's not much passive
safety to be had. You have to actively engage, have to be involved
in what you are doing.

In a car you are surrounded by passive safety. The metal cage, the
seatbelt, the airbags. The advertising you have seen every day for
years about how insurance is good because a crash in a car is all
about bent metalwork, never about bent people.

The two wheeler develops habits that move across into 4 wheels.
The average four wheeler never develops those habits, never gets into
active safety.

Plus there is the rarity problem. Crashes are *rare*. Most people
will be able to drone along operating the controls of their motor
vehicle without crashing. Most crashes require 2 people to make a
mistake at the same time, given the hours/km travelled and the number
of cars on the road crashes are quite rare. So people can develop bad
habits, make mistakes all the time, unless someone else makes a
suitable mistake at the same time then nothing bad happens.

So for the average driver there's no *reason* to turn the brain on.

Zebee

Yep, they'll do that.

BTH

Zebee Johnstone said:

The two wheeler develops habits that move across into 4 wheels.
The average four wheeler never develops those habits, never gets into
active safety.

I presume thats true of motos. Its definitely NOT true for some
cyclists, especially somewhere like Canberra where you can ride almost
entirely on shared paths and footpaths(legally). Well, they do develop
habits, bad habits.

In aus.bicycle on Wed, 13 Feb 2008 21:14:34 +1100

Aeek said:

Zebee Johnstone said:

The two wheeler develops habits that move across into 4 wheels.
The average four wheeler never develops those habits, never gets into
active safety.

I presume thats true of motos. Its definitely NOT true for some
cyclists, especially somewhere like Canberra where you can ride almost
entirely on shared paths and footpaths(legally). Well, they do develop
habits, bad habits.

Makes sense. You do what works. And if there isn't much threat then
you don't need to learn how to deal with threats.

Most people seem to function on the idea that what happened a few
seconds ago is what will happen a few seconds in the future. Which
makes sense, it is usually the case.

I find when riding on a cycle path that I have to consciously check
the mirror regularly because *sometimes* there is a bicycle
overtaking.

Happens maybe once every 15-20 trips. SO there's a lot of experience
saying "it won't happen". And only sheer stubborness saying "so check
the damn mirror anyway".

I still forget. Drifted into the middle of the path today, not
deliberately, and heard a call from behind me so moved back. I hadn't
realised I'd drifted, hadn't checked in ages. Had I not heard the
call, had the other rider not called, had I mistook what was going on,
then there could have been a problem.

Zebee

Aeek said:

Zebee Johnstone said:

The two wheeler develops habits that move across into 4 wheels.
The average four wheeler never develops those  habits, never gets into
active safety.

I presume thats true of motos. Its definitely NOT true for some
cyclists, especially somewhere like Canberra where you can ride almost
entirely on shared paths and footpaths(legally). Well, they do develop
habits, bad habits.

Yep. Like the 3 schoolkids (all in separate incidents) this morning
who, without exception, moved to the *right* when I called out
"passing".

BTH

BT Humble said:

Yep, they'll do that.

BTH

Damn Labradors are worse - no feeling for left and right.

PeteSig said:

Riding into work today was feeling pretty good. The eighth day in a row of
cycling, headed out with plenty of speed, negotiating the first few traffic
bottlenecks smoothly.

Then approaching the Whitehorse Rd crossing, moving well, clear of traffic
with the green light, just one car waiting to turn right. Then...

WTF! Whoah! The car is heading straight at me! Visions of me and my bike
crashing across the bonnet. I hit the brakes hard, and the bike skids and
spins. Unfortunate that it was to the left, into the line of the car's
direction! We come to a halt with my bike in front of the car - back wheel
just a centimetre or two from his bumper

Probably not a good move, but involuntarily I let fly with a stream of abuse
"What the f*%$!! Where did you get your licence? Out of a f*(%ing weeties
packet!" I walked clear, across the intersection, just a tad shaken. Nothing
from the driver, no wave, no aggro (good I guess) no sorry. Typical!

So to the inscrutable oriental gentleman, in the red/brown 1980s Mitsubishi
Magna - you are an insult! You need to wake up and develop some driving
competencies

Rest of the ride was much more peaceful. Even got a nice draft off a bus
moving slowly in flowing traffic But it was a wake up call, to be
ever-vigilant.

--
Cheers
Peter

Ha! I can go one better than that! 🙂 This morning, I was being
overtaken by a beat-up courier truck (rainy weather) who was being
overtaken by a snappy little Alfa, then Alfa driver realised there was
a stopped truck in the filter lane ahead going right, so ducked a bit
too hard in front of the courier, who rear ended him in the off-side
quarter panel, pushing him along the road about 10 metres in front of
me at approx. 40 km/h. There was a B-Double right behind me leaning
hard on his air brakes. I thought I was going to die. Shiny suit real
estate agent type Alfa driver got out and started to go the poor
African courier dude, then tried to push him around. I had to play
traffic cop in an attempt to stop shiny suit decking courier dude, who
was really shaken up. I wasn't so stable with the adrenaline going,
either. Finally, using my best Year 10 in the playgound dust-up
control technique, I got them to talk to each other rationally. Then
rode the remaining 500 metres to work and scraped the brown stains off
my knicks. I'm still a bit jumpy typing this now.

BT Humble said:

Aeek said:

Zebee Johnstone said:

The two wheeler develops habits that move across into 4 wheels.
The average four wheeler never develops those habits, never gets into
active safety.

I presume thats true of motos. Its definitely NOT true for some
cyclists, especially somewhere like Canberra where you can ride almost
entirely on shared paths and footpaths(legally). Well, they do develop
habits, bad habits.

Yep. Like the 3 schoolkids (all in separate incidents) this morning
who, without exception, moved to the *right* when I called out
"passing".

It's pedestrians in general - and I don't know why. Whether it's on the
footpath or in a shopping centre, it seems to me that MOST people will
move to their right when approaching a passing situation.

Peter Cremasco said:

It's pedestrians in general - and I don't know why. Whether it's on the
footpath or in a shopping centre, it seems to me that MOST people will
move to their right when approaching a passing situation.

... which is why I prefer to slow, but remain silent when passing people on shared paths. If they're in front of me, it's my responsibility to miss them. Can't stay silent all the time though, I have to say something if the whole path is blocked by a group walking along like brown's cows.

Ritch

ritcho said:

.. which is why I prefer to slow, but remain silent when passing
people on shared paths. If they're in front of me, it's my
responsibility to miss them.

I say "Good Morning!" as I do that (in the morning).
Defuses any agro about not ringing my bell.

In aus.bicycle on Fri, 15 Feb 2008 21:26:59 +1100

Aeek said:

ritcho said:

.. which is why I prefer to slow, but remain silent when passing
people on shared paths. If they're in front of me, it's my
responsibility to miss them.

I say "Good Morning!" as I do that (in the morning).
Defuses any agro about not ringing my bell.

I gave up on voice because so few people thought it was directed at
them. Whereas most peds on a path can make the bell-bicycle-move
connection.

I ring reasonably early and watch for which way they move. Had 2 the
other day who went one to each side, so I slowed right down to ride
between them. Mostly they'll move one side or the other. If they are
already off to one side, I'll go as far as I can to the other side.

Zebee

Zebee Johnstone <[email hidden]> wrote in
news:[email hidden]:

Quoted message said:

In aus.bicycle on Fri, 15 Feb 2008 21:26:59 +1100

Aeek said:

ritcho said:

.. which is why I prefer to slow, but remain silent when passing
people on shared paths. If they're in front of me, it's my
responsibility to miss them.

I say "Good Morning!" as I do that (in the morning).
Defuses any agro about not ringing my bell.

I gave up on voice because so few people thought it was directed at
them. Whereas most peds on a path can make the bell-bicycle-move
connection.

I ring reasonably early and watch for which way they move. Had 2 the
other day who went one to each side, so I slowed right down to ride
between them. Mostly they'll move one side or the other. If they are
already off to one side, I'll go as far as I can to the other side.

I do any or all of the things mentioned so far, depending on time of
day, location and my assessment of the peds' activities and body
language as I approach. Bell and voice are useless if the ped is wearing
earphones, but the very worst ones are those who are having an argument
with somebody on the other end of a mobile. They can jump all over the
place without regard for anything coming up behind.

I note that signs have recently gone up on Pyrmont Bridge, restricting
the south side to pedestrians only. That is a good idea. Now if only
they would paint a nice big green strip down the other side, with little
white bicycles painted at frequent intervals.

--
beerwolf

Zebee Johnstone said:

In aus.bicycle on Fri, 15 Feb 2008 21:26:59 +1100
Aeek <[email hidden]> wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I say "Good Morning!" as I do that (in the morning).
Defuses any agro about not ringing my bell.

I gave up on voice because so few people thought it was directed at
them. Whereas most peds on a path can make the bell-bicycle-move
connection.

My voice is too late to affect them, just being "friendly".
I bell sometimes, and sometimes I have a bell.

Aeek said:

Zebee Johnstone said:

In aus.bicycle on Fri, 15 Feb 2008 21:26:59 +1100
Aeek <[email hidden]> wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I say "Good Morning!" as I do that (in the morning).
Defuses any agro about not ringing my bell.

I gave up on voice because so few people thought it was directed at
them. Whereas most peds on a path can make the bell-bicycle-move
connection.

My voice is too late to affect them, just being "friendly".
I bell sometimes, and sometimes I have a bell.

My experience is mostly based on Canberra's mixed use recreation paths -
note that they are not cycle paths despite the white line down the middle.

My voice is big enough to be effective, and seems to produce a more
predictable outcome than any bell, buzzer or horn. I call "bike behind"
in a sonorous voice and they mostly do the right thing.

Most predictable - single joggers.
Least preductable - groups of four talking and strolling.
Most dangerous - two people with three dogs.

beerwolf said:

Zebee Johnstone <[email hidden]> wrote in

Quoted message said:

I ring reasonably early and watch for which way they move. Had 2 the
other day who went one to each side, so I slowed right down to ride
between them. Mostly they'll move one side or the other. If they are
already off to one side, I'll go as far as I can to the other side.

I do any or all of the things mentioned so far, depending on time of
day, location and my assessment of the peds' activities and body
language as I approach. Bell and voice are useless if the ped is wearing
earphones, but the very worst ones are those who are having an argument
with somebody on the other end of a mobile. They can jump all over the
place without regard for anything coming up behind.

The best (worse?) I've come across was the bloke who, as I approached
from the rear with a "excuse me, coming through on the right", told his
girlfriend who was walking side-by-side with him to "stay where you are
- don't get off the path".

Which is one reason why I really do prefer mixing it with traffic on the
road, rather than shared lanes.

Peter Cremasco said:

The best (worse?) I've come across was the bloke who, as I approached
from the rear with a "excuse me, coming through on the right", told his
girlfriend who was walking side-by-side with him to "stay where you are
- don't get off the path".

Which is one reason why I really do prefer mixing it with traffic on the
road, rather than shared lanes.

LOL, reminds of the time I was trying to get my motorbike up onto the
footpath in the CBD at the lights. A group of young stockbroker types (I
worked just up from the Exchange) were kind of in my way when one of
them deliberately moved in front of me (with a smirk to his mates) so I
couldn't get up onto the footpath. He soon found out that wet tyres and
dirty roads combine to make a big mark on a nice clean suit when he was
nudged out of the way. 🙂

DaveB