Bike pron

Resound said:

I rather like the look of this:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/bike/2250039138/

No lube needed and sounds like it'd last longer than a conventional
chain as well. I wonder what it feels like to ride. Oh, and the Ti SS
roadie wouldn't go astray either.

How do you change the belt?

Theo

quote='Theo Bekkers'Resound said:

I rather like the look of this:
flickr.com2250039138Open ↗

No lube needed and sounds like it'd last longer than a conventional
chain as well. I wonder what it feels like to ride. Oh, and the Ti SS
roadie wouldn't go astray either.

How do you change the belt?

Theo[/QUOTE]
The seatstay appears to be bolted to the chainstay, in which undo seatstay, switch belts and re-bolt seatstay.

Usually the dropout would be detachable to allow the belt to be fitted,
though that doesn't seem to be the case with the frame pictured. I met a
rider on the Fitz's Challenge a couple of years ago who was riding a toothed
belt drive bike with a Rohloff hub. The drive belt was a smaller version of
what's used on some motorcycles. He was a fitter from Bathurst and had got a
local framebuilder to make him the frame with detachable dropout. The
chainring and cog he had machined himself. He gave the advantages of the
belt drive as:

Longer life than a chain
Quieter than a chain
No lubrication or cleaning needed
He could sling the bike in the back seat of the car without worrying about
getting the upholstery dirty

"Theo Bekkers" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Resound said:

I rather like the look of this:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/bike/2250039138/

No lube needed and sounds like it'd last longer than a conventional
chain as well. I wonder what it feels like to ride. Oh, and the Ti SS
roadie wouldn't go astray either.

How do you change the belt?

Theo

Nick Payne said:

Usually the dropout would be detachable to allow the belt to be fitted,
though that doesn't seem to be the case with the frame pictured. I met a
rider on the Fitz's Challenge a couple of years ago who was riding a
toothed belt drive bike with a Rohloff hub. The drive belt was a smaller
version of what's used on some motorcycles. He was a fitter from Bathurst
and had got a local framebuilder to make him the frame with detachable
dropout. The chainring and cog he had machined himself. He gave the
advantages of the belt drive as:

Longer life than a chain
Quieter than a chain
No lubrication or cleaning needed
He could sling the bike in the back seat of the car without worrying about
getting the upholstery dirty

Disadvantages:

Big $$$$. No affordable Deore derailleur gears possible, it's the expense of
Rohloff (I'd love one if I could muster the $$$$) or you go single speed.
Need a frame with a break in the seatstay or chainstay to be able to change
the belt, structurally weaker.

--
Cheers
Peter

~~~ ~ _@
~~ ~ _- \,
~~ (*)/ (*)

On 2008-02-23, PeteSig (aka Bruce)
was almost, but not quite, entirely unlike tea:

Quoted message said:

Nick Payne said:

Usually the dropout would be detachable to allow the belt to be fitted,
though that doesn't seem to be the case with the frame pictured. I met a
rider on the Fitz's Challenge a couple of years ago who was riding a
toothed belt drive bike with a Rohloff hub. The drive belt was a smaller
version of what's used on some motorcycles. He was a fitter from Bathurst
and had got a local framebuilder to make him the frame with detachable
dropout. The chainring and cog he had machined himself. He gave the
advantages of the belt drive as:

I saw one of these locally (of all places), and it looked pretty good.
Reckoned the belt life was 16,000km. Apart from below, I wonder what
the energy transmission/efficiency is like.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Longer life than a chain
Quieter than a chain
No lubrication or cleaning needed
He could sling the bike in the back seat of the car without worrying about
getting the upholstery dirty

Disadvantages:

Big $$$$. No affordable Deore derailleur gears possible, it's the expense of
Rohloff (I'd love one if I could muster the $$$$) or you go single speed.
Need a frame with a break in the seatstay or chainstay to be able to change
the belt, structurally weaker.

Wait a few more years, and we'll be able to cut and join them:

http://www.smh.com.au/news/science/scientists-make-selfhealing-rubber-band/2008/02/21/1203467243895.html
http://news.smh.com.au/the-power-of-healing-damaged-rubber-repairs-itself/20080221-1tga.html

--
TimC
"Mango sorbet is clearcut proof that we have progressed beyond the
bare needs of survival and have progressed to the transcendant."
- Marc Goodman in talk.bizarre

"PeteSig" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Nick Payne said:

Usually the dropout would be detachable to allow the belt to be fitted,
though that doesn't seem to be the case with the frame pictured. I met a
rider on the Fitz's Challenge a couple of years ago who was riding a
toothed belt drive bike with a Rohloff hub. The drive belt was a smaller
version of what's used on some motorcycles. He was a fitter from Bathurst
and had got a local framebuilder to make him the frame with detachable
dropout. The chainring and cog he had machined himself. He gave the
advantages of the belt drive as:

Longer life than a chain
Quieter than a chain
No lubrication or cleaning needed
He could sling the bike in the back seat of the car without worrying
about getting the upholstery dirty

Disadvantages:

Big $$$$. No affordable Deore derailleur gears possible, it's the expense
of Rohloff (I'd love one if I could muster the $$$$) or you go single
speed.
Need a frame with a break in the seatstay or chainstay to be able to
change the belt, structurally weaker.

Would the seat stay being bolted to the dropout have to be appreciably
weaker? You'd certainly want some threadlock compound in there, but other
than that I personally wouldn't be worried about it breaking or otherwise
coming apart. For a commute/recreation bike I reckon 7-8 gears would do the
trick, so you could go with a Nexus hub instead. I still like the look of
that SS though. Less than 5½kg of thrashity goodness would make it an utter
joy to stomp through city traffic.

Resound said:

Would the seat stay being bolted to the dropout have to be appreciably
weaker?

Given the number of high end dual suspension bikes with a pivot bolt
either on the seat stay or chain stay, I can't see it being a major
problem. I've had a couple bikes like that where I've had no problems from
the rear of the bike despite riding that has caused significant mechanical
problems elsewhere.

Both beams would probably need to be a touch stronger since there
could be a bit of movement, but not dramatically so. Using steel there
should even be sufficient flex for the belt to pass through without
needing a removeable section. Overall weight increase ( a few 10s of
grams at most) would be insignificant given you're talking commuter bikes
with hub gears.

--
Dave Hughes - [email hidden]
You're a classic example of that inverse
ratio between the size of the mouth and the
size of the brain - Doctor Who

"PeteSig" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Nick Payne said:

Usually the dropout would be detachable to allow the belt to be fitted,
though that doesn't seem to be the case with the frame pictured. I met a
rider on the Fitz's Challenge a couple of years ago who was riding a
toothed belt drive bike with a Rohloff hub. The drive belt was a smaller
version of what's used on some motorcycles. He was a fitter from Bathurst
and had got a local framebuilder to make him the frame with detachable
dropout. The chainring and cog he had machined himself. He gave the
advantages of the belt drive as:

Longer life than a chain
Quieter than a chain
No lubrication or cleaning needed
He could sling the bike in the back seat of the car without worrying
about getting the upholstery dirty

Disadvantages:

Big $$$$. No affordable Deore derailleur gears possible, it's the expense
of Rohloff (I'd love one if I could muster the $$$$) or you go single
speed.

That's the short-sighted view. I have three bikes with Rohloff hubs (a
single, the wife's single, and a tandem) and also four derailleur-equipped
bikes. I think that over the projected 100,000km life of the hub (that's
Rohloff's claim) I'll probably get out the other end more cheaply. Up front
you don't have to buy STI/Ergo shifters, a rear hub, a cassette, front and
rear derailleurs, or two of the three front chainrings. Running costs are
minimal - on none of the hubs have I had to do anything more than an annual
oil change. Chains seem to last about three times longer than on a
derailleur system - never getting derailed and always having a perfect
chainline. The rear cog is reversible, so when it wears out (no sign of it
yet) you reverse it so that the load is now on the unworn side of the teeth.
The shifting cables are supposed to be replaced at 40,000km. I'm probably
past that point on the oldest of the hubs, but I'm waiting for the cables to
break.

Nick

Nick Payne said:

"PeteSig" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Nick Payne said:

Usually the dropout would be detachable to allow the belt to be
fitted, though that doesn't seem to be the case with the frame
pictured. I met a rider on the Fitz's Challenge a couple of years ago
who was riding a toothed belt drive bike with a Rohloff hub. The
drive belt was a smaller version of what's used on some motorcycles.
He was a fitter from Bathurst and had got a local framebuilder to
make him the frame with detachable dropout. The chainring and cog he
had machined himself. He gave the advantages of the belt drive as:

Longer life than a chain
Quieter than a chain
No lubrication or cleaning needed
He could sling the bike in the back seat of the car without worrying
about getting the upholstery dirty

Disadvantages:

Big $$$$. No affordable Deore derailleur gears possible, it's the
expense of Rohloff (I'd love one if I could muster the $$$$) or you
go single speed.

That's the short-sighted view. I have three bikes with Rohloff hubs (a
single, the wife's single, and a tandem) and also four
derailleur-equipped bikes. I think that over the projected 100,000km
life of the hub (that's Rohloff's claim) I'll probably get out the other
end more cheaply. Up front you don't have to buy STI/Ergo shifters, a
rear hub, a cassette, front and rear derailleurs, or two of the three
front chainrings. Running costs are minimal - on none of the hubs have I
had to do anything more than an annual oil change. Chains seem to last
about three times longer than on a derailleur system - never getting
derailed and always having a perfect chainline. The rear cog is
reversible, so when it wears out (no sign of it yet) you reverse it so
that the load is now on the unworn side of the teeth. The shifting
cables are supposed to be replaced at 40,000km. I'm probably past that
point on the oldest of the hubs, but I'm waiting for the cables to break.

Nick

Can I ask where you got the bikes. I am thinking of getting a Thorn
Raven but would rather spend the money in Australia.

--
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Nick Payne said:

"PeteSig" wrote in message

Quoted message said:

Disadvantages:

Big $$$$. No affordable Deore derailleur gears possible, it's the expense
of Rohloff (I'd love one if I could muster the $$$$) or you go single
speed.

That's the short-sighted view. I have three bikes with Rohloff hubs (a
single, the wife's single, and a tandem) and also four derailleur-equipped
bikes. I think that over the projected 100,000km life of the hub (that's
Rohloff's claim) I'll probably get out the other end more cheaply.

<snip>

Yes, maybe short-sighted. But none of this changes the fact that a new
belt-drive bike, with special frame, Rohloff equipped, and all the other
grear that goes with it is bound to cost at least $4000. A bit hard to
persuade the Chief Finance Officer that this is "a really economical bike to
use, really saves us money!" IIRC the Rohloff on its own will set you back
$1800 - 2000. And all the price comparisons are done on the Shimano XT
ensemble. Well, one of my bikes does have some XT gear, but the others...
LX, or even Deore in the mix.

A Rohloff bike a la Thorn Raven or Baum is my dream bike for touring. But
I'll have to wait for the big inheritance, or take it of the super pay-out
when I retire 🙂
--
Cheers
Peter

~~~ ~ _@
~~ ~ _- \,
~~ (*)/ (*)

Dave Hughes said:

Both beams would probably need to be a touch stronger since there
could be a bit of movement, but not dramatically so.

You also have to consider that a belt drive need some tension to keep
the belt engaged so the chain^Wbelt-stay would need to be built strong
enough to support the belt tension load as well as the usual drive and
load-bearing forces.

tim
who isn't a fan of belt drives where a well guarded chain could be used

On 2008-02-24, tim (aka Bruce)
was almost, but not quite, entirely unlike tea:

Quoted message said:

Dave Hughes said:

Both beams would probably need to be a touch stronger since there
could be a bit of movement, but not dramatically so.

You also have to consider that a belt drive need some tension to keep
the belt engaged so the chain^Wbelt-stay would need to be built strong
enough to support the belt tension load as well as the usual drive and
load-bearing forces.

Not that much tension - there's still "teeth" in the belt and cogs.

--
TimC
"I'm gonna show you a hill that would choke a mule."
-- President G.W. Bush on his MTB, moments before losing his
front-wheel traction and flying over his bars down a steep dropoff.

Dave Hughes said:

Resound said:

Would the seat stay being bolted to the dropout have to be
appreciably weaker?

Given the number of high end dual suspension bikes with a pivot bolt
either on the seat stay or chain stay, I can't see it being a major
problem. I've had a couple bikes like that where I've had no problems
from the rear of the bike despite riding that has caused significant
mechanical problems elsewhere.

That brings up another point. Can you have suspension with belt drive? I
know motorcycles do, but to do it without affecting belt tension, would not
the pivot point need to be at the centre of the bottom bracket?

Theo

Theo Bekkers said:

That brings up another point. Can you have suspension with belt drive?
...would not the pivot point need to be at the centre of the bottom bracket?

Pretty much.

It's the same with single-speed chain drive; either the swing-arm has
to pivot around the BB centre, or you need a spring loaded chain
tensioning device to take up the varying amounts of slack.

You could do the same with a belt, I guess, but you'd need more
tension than for a chain drive so you'd need a heavily spring-loaded
tensioner.

tim

"tim" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Theo Bekkers said:

That brings up another point. Can you have suspension with belt drive?
...would not the pivot point need to be at the centre of the bottom
bracket?

Pretty much.

It's the same with single-speed chain drive; either the swing-arm has
to pivot around the BB centre, or you need a spring loaded chain
tensioning device to take up the varying amounts of slack.

You could do the same with a belt, I guess, but you'd need more
tension than for a chain drive so you'd need a heavily spring-loaded
tensioner.

Assuming the tooth pitch was the same, you could just get a car's cambelt
tensioner from a wrecking yard. A wee bit of fabrication for the mount and
you're away.

"Jack Russell" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Can I ask where you got the bikes. I am thinking of getting a Thorn Raven
but would rather spend the money in Australia.

Rohloff #1 was a retrofit to a Litespeed Blue Ridge that I bought in the US.
Rohloff #2 went in a tandem frame that was built by Wayne Kotzur in
Gundaroo. Rohloff #3 went in a Raven that I bought from the SJS Cycles eBay
store a couple of years back:
http://stores.ebay.com.au/St-John-Street-Cycles-01278-441500_W0QQcolZ4QQdirZ1QQfsubZQ2d33QQftidZ2QQtZkm.
They were flogging the previous years Raven Sport Tour models in XL and XS
sizes pretty cheaply, and my wife is a good fit on an XS frame. I also
bought Rohloff #3 on eBay quite cheaply in relative terms - unused for just
over $1000.

Only last month someone in Melbourne was selling a Rohloff-equipped MTB on
eBay - it went for $875. I seriously thought about bidding but decided that
a) I didn't need another Rohloff hub and b) I would wait for the new model
hub that Rohloff are supposed to be bringing out this year to see if they
come out with a shifter that is a better match for drop bars.

Nick

hanks for the info

Nick Payne said:

"Jack Russell" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Can I ask where you got the bikes. I am thinking of getting a Thorn
Raven but would rather spend the money in Australia.

Rohloff #1 was a retrofit to a Litespeed Blue Ridge that I bought in the
US. Rohloff #2 went in a tandem frame that was built by Wayne Kotzur in
Gundaroo. Rohloff #3 went in a Raven that I bought from the SJS Cycles
eBay store a couple of years back:
http://stores.ebay.com.au/St-John-Street-Cycles-01278-441500_W0QQcolZ4QQdirZ1QQfsubZQ2d33QQftidZ2QQtZkm.
They were flogging the previous years Raven Sport Tour models in XL and
XS sizes pretty cheaply, and my wife is a good fit on an XS frame. I
also bought Rohloff #3 on eBay quite cheaply in relative terms - unused
for just over $1000.

Only last month someone in Melbourne was selling a Rohloff-equipped MTB
on eBay - it went for $875. I seriously thought about bidding but
decided that a) I didn't need another Rohloff hub and b) I would wait
for the new model hub that Rohloff are supposed to be bringing out this
year to see if they come out with a shifter that is a better match for
drop bars.

Nick

--
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Resound said:

"tim" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Theo Bekkers said:

That brings up another point. Can you have suspension with belt drive?
...would not the pivot point need to be at the centre of the bottom
bracket?

Quoted message said:

Pretty much.

Quoted message said:

It's the same with single-speed chain drive; either the swing-arm has
to pivot around the BB centre, or you need a spring loaded chain
tensioning device to take up the varying amounts of slack.

Quoted message said:

You could do the same with a belt, I guess, but you'd need more
tension than for a chain drive so you'd need a heavily spring-loaded
tensioner.

Assuming the tooth pitch was the same, you could just get a car's cambelt
tensioner from a wrecking yard. A wee bit of fabrication for the mount and
you're away.

Assuming you put the tensioner on the outside of the belt you wouldn't
need to worry about the tooth pitch :-)

<[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Resound said:

"tim" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

On Feb 25, 8:31 am, "Theo Bekkers" <[email hidden]> wrote:
> That brings up another point. Can you have suspension with belt drive?
> ...would not the pivot point need to be at the centre of the bottom
> bracket?

Quoted message said:

Pretty much.

Quoted message said:

It's the same with single-speed chain drive; either the swing-arm has
to pivot around the BB centre, or you need a spring loaded chain
tensioning device to take up the varying amounts of slack.

Quoted message said:

You could do the same with a belt, I guess, but you'd need more
tension than for a chain drive so you'd need a heavily spring-loaded
tensioner.

Assuming the tooth pitch was the same, you could just get a car's cambelt
tensioner from a wrecking yard. A wee bit of fabrication for the mount
and
you're away.

Assuming you put the tensioner on the outside of the belt you wouldn't
need to worry about the tooth pitch :-)

That occured to me 0.023581 (approx.) seconds after I hit send. 🙂