NY critic says Spain overtakes France for cuisine

In article <[email hidden]>,

The Reid said:

Reported on BBC today, top NY critic says French cuisine is moribund and stuck in the 70s and
Spain is the new epicentre, BBC managed to add a dig at US though, by finishing "according to the
home of the burger and Texas T Bone".

hard to beat US beef -- the French have made a culture out of disguising the scrawny stuff they
serve with delicious sauces

having traveled in Spain and France, I'd have to give the nod to the French for consistantly
wonderful food pretty much everywhere -- from sandwich stand to top restaurant

there is great Spanish food -- but our luck has been much better in France -- and we rarely go to
expensive posh places

The Reid said:

Reported on BBC today, top NY critic says French cuisine is moribund and stuck in the 70s and Spain
is the new epicentre, BBC managed to add a dig at US though, by finishing "according to the home of
the burger and Texas T Bone".

I'd put a NYTimes food critic in the same category as a NYTimes fashion critic. He is talking about
something completely different from food I will ever eat.

There's no doubt in my mind, France/Italy are in a tie for best everyday food in the world.

It is true that the French suck at cooking beef, the one thing that the British know how to do. It
confuses me that a BBC reporter would criticize the US for steaks and burgers, though -- I'd think
this is something fairly common between the US and Britain.

Mason Barge

"If this is coffee, please bring me some tea. If this is tea, please bring me some coffee."

-- Abraham Lincoln

"Jenn" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

hard to beat US beef -- the French have made a culture out of disguising the scrawny stuff they
serve with delicious sauces

That *used* to be true but we had some excellent beef in France last year and not in particularly
upscale restaurants either - just regular bistros etc.

OTOH, the stuff we get in the supermarket doesn't seem as good as it used to be. US beef may still
be marginally better but it's a lot closer to call than it was. And that's if you ignore what was
done to it in the way of added hormones & antibiotics...

Terry.

Following up to Jenn

Quoted message said:

hard to beat US beef -- the French have made a culture out of disguising the scrawny stuff they
serve with delicious sauces

There is plenty of top quality beef outside US. I think that the point of the snub, however, is
about simple cooking v sophistication, as you describe. Isn't the skill of cooking all about making
something good out of something unpromising, any fool can cook a quality steak well (or should be
able to). I also think those sauces are now looking tired, at least in the eyes of the food critic
seeking innovation? And what about Italy? Same problem?

Quoted message said:

there is great Spanish food -- but our luck has been much better in France -- and we rarely go to
expensive posh places

I imagine the NY critic would be talking about top end cutting edge? Anyone know who it is?

I have had pretty consistently good food in both countries, but my top marks go to St Sebastian,
from supurb informal tapas for next to nothing to the multi mitchlin star places like Akelare and
Arzak. I don't think France can quite match that experience?
--
Mike Reid "Art is the lie that reveals the truth" P.Picasso UK walking "fellwalk.co.ukfellwalk.co.ukOpen ↗"
<-- you can email us@ this site Spain,cuisines and walking "fell-walker.co.ukfell-walker.co.ukOpen ↗" <--
dontuse@ all, it's a spamtrap

In article <[email hidden]>,

Jenn said:

In article <[email hidden]>, The Reid <dontuse@fell-

walker.co.uk said:

Reported on BBC today, top NY critic says French cuisine is moribund and stuck in the 70s and
Spain is the new epicentre, BBC managed to add a dig at US though, by finishing "according to
the home of the burger and Texas T Bone".

hard to beat US beef -- the French have made a culture out of disguising

Then you obviously haven;'t tried Argentinean beef yet. free range. None of the corn-fattened [censored]

The Reid <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Following up to Jenn

I imagine the NY critic would be talking about top end cutting edge? Anyone know who it is?

I have had pretty consistently good food in both countries, but my top marks go to St Sebastian,
from supurb informal tapas for next to nothing to the multi mitchlin star places like Akelare and
Arzak. I don't think France can quite match that experience?

It was published back on August 10th - you can go to the NY Times archives & buy a copy - it's
very long.

A Laboratory of Taste

By Arthur Lubow (NYT) 8359 words Late Edition - Final , Section 6 , Page 38
, Column 1

Not the Karl Orff said:

Quoted message said:

hard to beat US beef -- the French have made a culture out of disguising

Then you obviously haven;'t tried Argentinean beef yet. free range. None of the corn-fattened [censored]

I have indeed tried Argentinian beef. No doubt about it .... not as good as the real corn-fattened
thing. Though it is getting harder and harder to get true first-rate beef in the US because the
government keeps changing the grading system so what used to be called "good" can now be called
"prime". It's now practically impossible to find "true" prime even at restaurantsm, exceptat very
expensive ones only in huge cities. The stuff we get now tastes about as good as it can at the
unfortunately low fat level of what used to be "good". I still can get quality steaks at the
supermarket but I have to inspect each and every piece myself and get only the ones with far above
average marbling.

Doug McDonald

In article <[email hidden]>,

Doug McDonald said:

Not the Karl Orff said:

Quoted message said:

hard to beat US beef -- the French have made a culture out of disguising

Then you obviously haven;'t tried Argentinean beef yet. free range. None of the corn-
fattened [censored]

I have indeed tried Argentinian beef. No doubt about it .... not as good as the real corn-fattened
thing. Though it is getting harder

corn fattened = more marbling (and better dispersal of fat cells)

I'm not into fatty beef. I like the lean *tasty* (and not fatty) stuff

Doug McDonald said:

Not the Karl Orff said:

Quoted message said:

hard to beat US beef -- the French have made a culture out of disguising

Then you obviously haven;'t tried Argentinean beef yet. free range. None of the corn-
fattened [censored]

I have indeed tried Argentinian beef. No doubt about it .... not as good as the real corn-fattened
thing. Though it is getting harder and harder to get true first-rate beef in the US because the
government keeps changing the grading system so what used to be called "good" can now be called
"prime". It's now practically impossible to find "true" prime even at restaurantsm, exceptat very
expensive ones only in huge cities. The stuff we get now tastes about as good as it can at the
unfortunately low fat level of what used to be "good". I still can get quality steaks at the
supermarket but I have to inspect each and every piece myself and get only the ones with far above
average marbling.

Doug McDonald

Beef is pretty sad, but have you eaten pork in the past few years? I have taken to brushing pork
chops with olive oil.

Mason Barge

"If this is coffee, please bring me some tea. If this is tea, please bring me some coffee."

-- Abraham Lincoln

"Frank F. Matthews" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Sorry Charlie but flour is a common choice in Texas as well. FFM

No need to be sorry. Of course flour tortillas are common in Texas. My main point was that they are
not Tex-Mex.

Charlie

"Bob" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Charlie quoted and replied:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

More like Tex-Mex.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Flour tortillas were and are very common in Sonora, Mexico from early in the Spanish occupation.
In the U.S., they are popular in California more so than in Texas. They arrived in California
during the California

Rancho

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Period and have remained popular along with corn tortillas in the modern Cal-Mex cuisine. Flour
tortilla tradition was reinforced in California and Arizona by Mexican field workers for 2
reasons: many of the early field workers came from Sonora and flour tortilla ingredients were

easier

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

and cheaper to get than corn ingredients.

That's all well and good, but I'm guessing the quote about wrongly

thinking

Quoted message said:

a tortilla is made from flour was referring to differences between Spanish cooking and Mexican. In
Spain, a tortilla is a VERY different thing. Not

a

Quoted message said:

flatbread at all. Here's a link to a recipe for one of the best-known Spanish tortillas (in fact,
it's name MEANS "Spanish tortilla"😉.

foodtv.com0,1977,FOOD 9936 15032,00.htmlOpen ↗

Bob

Sure. I know about Spanish tortillas. Cooked 'em and et'em. I was replying to the statement above
with the >>>'s

Charlie

"The Reid" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Following up to Charles Gifford

Quoted message said:

Flour tortillas were and are very common in Sonora, Mexico from early in

the

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Spanish occupation. In the U.S., they are popular in California more so

than

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

in Texas. They arrived in California during the California Rancho Period

and

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

have remained popular along with corn tortillas in the modern Cal-Mex cuisine. Flour tortilla
tradition was reinforced in California and

Arizona

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

by Mexican field workers for 2 reasons: many of the early field workers

came

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

from Sonora and flour tortilla ingredients were easier and cheaper to get than corn ingredients.

Charlie, my point was that in Spanish cooking a tortilla is an egg and potato dish! (one that name
its name to the Mexican semi lookalike)

Yes. But I was replying to Mike Torbre's statement: "More like Tex-Mex". I left your bit in for
context. Obviously I was not clear.

Quoted message said:

There is also a tortalitta, which is flour, but my efforts to promote that as the missing link
fell on stony ground
:-)

If we were to follow this link we might find that the tortalitta is ultimately Sumarian. ;-)

Charlie

Quoted message said:

--
Mike Reid

Mike Torbre said:

Frank F. Matthews wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Mike Torbre said:

The Reid wrote:

> Following up to randee
>
>> We have a lot of Spanish food places here in the southwest US, but you tend to tire of tacos,
>> enchiladas, and chile rellenos after a while. Sigh, I keep thinking of the good
>> Wienerschnitzel we had in Italy back in February.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

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> Thats Mexican. If they think a tortilla is made from flour, your in the wrong place!

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

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More like Tex-Mex.

Quoted message said:

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Strange how TexMex has invaded southern Mexico then. FFM

Quoted message said:

Most kinds of tortillas and 'mexican' food in america have been modified to suit the american
palate. hence, tex-mex.

If flour tortillas are Tex Mex the so is food in southern Mexico. They use flour tortillas
there. FFM

Alan Pollock said:

In rec.travel.europe Mike Torbre said:

Most kinds of tortillas and 'mexican' food in america have been modified to suit the american
palate. hence, tex-mex.

Many small restos and holes-in-the-wall all over the west are owned and run by folks from Mexico,
were born there or are first generation. So you get a pretty good range of foods, types of
enchilladas, quesadillas, tacos, various plates, (I'm a machaca freak myself - rarely see two
identical machacas across restos and often not at all) and all manner of good stuff - often things
I've never heard of. Not modified, but often you get to choose whether it's hot or not, if you
want salsa on the side or not.

Well, Mexico is a large country, and a lot of its cuisine is quite local. The dishes you mention
above don't have much to do with what you'll find in the regional dishes of, say, the Yucatan.
Likewise, you wouldn't expect to find much authentic Yucatecan food in a typical tex-mex restaurant
(though I've seen some.) The cuisines are quite different. I'm not a particular snob about tex-mex,
by the way. It's a synthesis of cuisines, and I think it's a legitimate one. To try and look for
'authenticity' within it misses the point. Even in Yucatecan food (which is a favourite of mine)
there's an obvious synthesis of different cultures- Mayan and certain European ones.

David

--
David Horne- www.davidhorne.co.uk davidhorne (at) davidhorne (dot) co (dot) uk

Following up to Charles Gifford

Quoted message said:

Yes. But I was replying to Mike Torbre's statement: "More like Tex-Mex". I left your bit in for
context. Obviously I was not clear.

Ah, sorry! Still the repetition may get it through to those who think Spanish=Mexican

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

There is also a tortalitta, which is flour, but my efforts to promote that as the missing link
fell on stony ground
:-)

If we were to follow this link we might find that the tortalitta is ultimately Sumarian. ;-)

Sumarian! now your talking :-)
--
Mike Reid "Art is the lie that reveals the truth" P.Picasso UK walking "fellwalk.co.ukfellwalk.co.ukOpen ↗"
<-- you can email us@ this site Spain,cuisines and walking "fell-walker.co.ukfell-walker.co.ukOpen ↗" <--
dontuse@ all, it's a spamtrap

"Charles Gifford" <[email hidden]> vented spleen or mostly mumbled...

Quoted message said:

"Frank F. Matthews" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Sorry Charlie but flour is a common choice in Texas as well. FFM

No need to be sorry. Of course flour tortillas are common in Texas. My main point was that they
are not Tex-Mex.

These days, TexMex takes a back seat to regional Mexican fare where I live. In a single square mile
of the South Waco "Barrio" (which we never thought of as such until those SoCalians fixed on the
term), I can dine, modestly to very well, on a half dozen different styles of Mexican food and a bit
of Teco, although no Yucatecan at the moment. The currently "in" joint is a Vera Cruz/Tampico style
seafood house (where you bring your own beer and wine, no corkage fee), currently much flavored by
the White House press Corps, who vacation here in August, ruining local modest prices with their
flagrant display of no limit net work Amex cards.

I even know a lady who has returned to making Christmas tamales, the sweet dessert sort, a relic of
yesteryear.

As for tortillas de harina ("flour"😉, formerly offered here as a festive holiday supplement, their
origin and use follows two paths....

In parts of Mexico, climate and rainfall are suitable for growing wheat. While not entirely
"Sonoran", wheat farming areas tend to be cattle raising areas, where cheap beef was available and
where even Mexicans of modest income ate beef. Flour tortillas have over time become associated with
grilled beef.

The second trail parallels a Southern US "tradition", the "income improves/type of bread changes"
pattern. Here, we started with cornbread as subsistence farmers, moved to flour biscuits when we had
cash for wheat flour, and like my grandmother, thought that offering "store bought" "light bread"
was a display of couth and sophistication. In Mexico, folks who could afford flour tortillas (or
wanted thir neighbors to think they could) served'em.

"Texan" - Chili (except not the kind made with hamburger meat or in Cincy)

"TexMex" - Meat in enchiladas, great mounds of yeller cheese, chopped onions, etc.

"Mexican" - a thousand things, but no meat in the enchiladas, and not much cheese and most of it's
white and crumbly.

None of the above: Store-bought or frozen "margaritas" including any such beverage made with "aged"
tequila. Margaritas are "fancy hotel bar" creations by which gringos could be induced to drink
tequila, and simply didn't appear outside of the tourist environment (and still don't outside
touristy areas or cities. Aged tequilas wewre saved to drink. margaritas were perfect for peddling
the harsher, heavier flavored (but no longer, since many are cut with grain alkies) Blanco/unaged
varieties.

....and Doroteo Arango was a temperance man (and if you don't know his "working name" name,
too bad....)

TMO