Adding weight to a wheel

After some more riding, I have determined that adding weight to the
wheel of a 36 commuter creates a useful fly wheel effect. There is a
better way to do this then ankle weights, though less convenient for
experimentation

Stick on lead wheel weights, available here..

http://tinyurl.com/ywert8

The amount of flywheel effect created by adding weight to a wheel is
determined by only 3 factors.

1 The amount of weight added.

2 The distance from the center of the wheel.

3 The velocity of the weight.

The last 2 factors are of greatest relevance, because inertial energy
increases with the square of velocity. Energy = mass x V 2

Eric should note that the ratio of weight added, to the original wheel
weight, is not a factor. A basic understanding of the physics involved
would show that a great deal more weight would need to be added to a
light trials wheel, then to a heavy 36 wheel, to achieve a comparable
flywheel effect. It is for this reason I expect all experiments adding
weight to <36 wheels to be
fruitless.

I plan to see if I can add these weights to the inside of the rim.
Because this location is a few inches further from the wheel center
then is achievable with ankle weights, I will need a bit less then 3
lbs. to achieve the same effect as 4 lbs in spoke wrapped ankle
weights.🙂

On my test rides, I noticed that I rode until I was tired on both the
light and heavy setups. They both felt the same to me, I have
determined that my testing cannot measure the difference in effort
needed between them. It was to small to be noticeable to me. Actually,
my ass gives out before my legs, unless I am riding muni.

+-------------------------------------------------------------------+
|Filename: WH-025.jpg |
|Download: http://www.unicyclist.com/attachment/25763 |
+-------------------------------------------------------------------+

--
feel the light
------------------------------------------------------------------------
feel the light's Profile: http://www.unicyclist.com/profile/14551
View this thread: http://www.unicyclist.com/thread/68512

Posted Via Usenet.com Premium Usenet Newsgroup Services
----------------------------------------------------------
** SPEED ** RETENTION ** COMPLETION ** ANONYMITY **
----------------------------------------------------------
http://www.usenet.com

I'm surprised to have noticed the differences of just having a heavier
tire.

The increased momentum several things were made easier: rolling over
most bumps (also from the thicker, harder to deform sidewalls),
maintain speed on flat, and climbing, provided I kept my speed above a
certain amount.

It was harder to change speed, at speed I had to lean to turn, and
climbing hills was harder if I didn't keep my speed up.

There was a small period while going uphill, where the qyroscopic
effect was neither good or bad, but the added weight to pull up the
hill took a bit more work for me.

Overal I much preffer the lighter tire.

feel the light said:

Stick on lead wheel weights, available here..

http://tinyurl.com/ywert8

I was just about to mention stick on weights used in ballancing car and
motorcycle wheels🙂

--
skilewis74

Ride everywhere and never just ride anywhere. If you can ride where you
are going within a hour, do it, and if you can do a trick 50-75% of the
time do it along the way.- Bob Burnquist

What next? 'IUF skill levels'
(http://www.unicycling.org/iuf/levels/)*'
Street'
(http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/The_Unicyclopedia/Street)*'unicycletips.com'
(http://unicycletips.com/)*'Trials class system'
(http://tinyurl.com/yqpvxk)*'Trials Building'
(http://www.unicyclist.com/forums/showthread.php?t=64235)
------------------------------------------------------------------------
skilewis74's Profile: http://www.unicyclist.com/profile/12404
View this thread: http://www.unicyclist.com/thread/68512

Posted Via Usenet.com Premium Usenet Newsgroup Services
----------------------------------------------------------
** SPEED ** RETENTION ** COMPLETION ** ANONYMITY **
----------------------------------------------------------
http://www.usenet.com

I always thought my Coker wheels were heavy enough; they don't need
anything extra to have a strong flywheel effect. 🙂

A heavier wheel can be great for cruising, control, and fitness
training. It will *not* be good for racing. Common bike racing wisdom
says that the best place to remove weight from your bike, if you can,
is from the stuff that rotates. The further from the center the weight
is removed (such as using a lighter rim), the less energy it will take
you to do the same amount of riding.

That much is obvious enough. So I am tempted to try this on my Coker
for RTL training...

--
johnfoss

John Foss
Email: "jfoss" at "unicycling.com" -- www.unicycling.com
-----------------------------------------------

Man with broken collar bone say: "Have you checked your shoelaces
lately?"
------------------------------------------------------------------------
johnfoss's Profile: http://www.unicyclist.com/profile/832
View this thread: http://www.unicyclist.com/thread/68512

Posted Via Usenet.com Premium Usenet Newsgroup Services
----------------------------------------------------------
** SPEED ** RETENTION ** COMPLETION ** ANONYMITY **
----------------------------------------------------------
http://www.usenet.com

One of the 2 advantages to a larger flywheel, the other being gyro
balance, is a mechanical flywheel effect. Energy is stored in the
wheel, and released instantly as soon as anything tries to slow the
wheel. So it takes more pedal energy to reach a speed, but then the
energy comes back as soon as you skip a beat, minus < 1 % power loss to
bearing friction.

Of course, bicycles would not be able to harness the fly wheel energy
in their wheels, without giving up the ability to coast. In this way,
the dual direction drive of the unicycle has an advantage, that allows
wheel inertia to drive the uni forward , whereas a bike would go click
click click. 🙂

I did more riding today. About 7 miles with the 4 lb ankle weights, the
about 5 miles without.

The biggest change I noticed was how little difference it made. The
stock steel Radial 360 has an impressive amount of flywheel.

I wish I was a trickier rider. I can idle and go backwards on my 24,
but I haven't learned that yet on the 36. So all I can say is that I
can do the same stuff on both wheels.

That said, I still prefer the heavier wheel. Riding into the strong
gusty wind, the headlight bobs back and forth more with the light
wheel. In general, the heavier wheel rides smoother and just wants to
go straighter. It also seems possible to lean slightly more forward,
but the difference is very small.

--
feel the light
------------------------------------------------------------------------
feel the light's Profile: http://www.unicyclist.com/profile/14551
View this thread: http://www.unicyclist.com/thread/68512

Posted Via Usenet.com Premium Usenet Newsgroup Services
----------------------------------------------------------
** SPEED ** RETENTION ** COMPLETION ** ANONYMITY **
----------------------------------------------------------
http://www.usenet.com

I'm tempted to try adding more weight to the 36" wheel just for swooping
more on turns. This reminds me of an longstanding question as to
whether a 24" wheeled guni's can swoop when in the 36" equivalent gear
mode. (I've asked about guni riders experience the forum, but have not
seen an answer.)

I think the swooping turn is a result of the gyroscopic inertia counter
balancing the lean of the rider falling to the side through the turn.
Switching down from a 36" to a 24" ( 0.66 times smaller wheel) draws me
down the path of thinking that the 24" wheel rotating mass (primarily
rim/tire/tube weight) would need to to be 1/0.66 = 1.5 times more than
the 36" wheel. But, this is canceled out by the 24" wheel turning 1.5
times faster to maintain the same speed through the turn as the larger
wheel. So all that is left is that the per unit length of the rotating
mass between the wheels, the 24" guni wheel needs to be about 0.66 of
the 36" wheel. I expect that the wheels are close enough, and so a guni
can do a swooping turn. (Not sure I have this correct.)

--
Chrashing

Regards,
Ken

I've been flying.......
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Chrashing's Profile: http://www.unicyclist.com/profile/7501
View this thread: http://www.unicyclist.com/thread/68512

Posted Via Usenet.com Premium Usenet Newsgroup Services
----------------------------------------------------------
** SPEED ** RETENTION ** COMPLETION ** ANONYMITY **
----------------------------------------------------------
http://www.usenet.com

I must be wrong about the swooping between the uni and the guni, because
that would say that any uni can swoop, it's just a mater of getting up
to speed. But 24" uni's don't bank, and I've tried banked turns on a
28", it's just not the same as on on a 36". The 28" banked turn is
quick maneuver, no real swooping experience.

--
Chrashing

Regards,
Ken

I've been flying.......
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Chrashing's Profile: http://www.unicyclist.com/profile/7501
View this thread: http://www.unicyclist.com/thread/68512

Posted Via Usenet.com Premium Usenet Newsgroup Services
----------------------------------------------------------
** SPEED ** RETENTION ** COMPLETION ** ANONYMITY **
----------------------------------------------------------
http://www.usenet.com

feel the light said:

Of course, bicycles would not be able to harness the fly wheel energy
in their wheels, without giving up the ability to coast. In this way,
the dual direction drive of the unicycle has an advantage, that allows
wheel inertia to drive the uni forward , whereas a bike would go click
click click. 🙂

sorry but I don't get that, why does the drive have anything to do with
it? the wheels do no need to turn the pedals in order to drive the bike
or unicycle with their inertia, they exert a force to the frame through
the axle. If two bikes are travelling at the same speed and one has
higher inertia wheels it contains more energy, assuming everything else
is constant it will coast further.

--
kington99

Dave

- what a thoroughly post-modern subversion of the cycling genre -
------------------------------------------------------------------------
kington99's Profile: http://www.unicyclist.com/profile/9417
View this thread: http://www.unicyclist.com/thread/68512

Posted Via Usenet.com Premium Usenet Newsgroup Services
----------------------------------------------------------
** SPEED ** RETENTION ** COMPLETION ** ANONYMITY **
----------------------------------------------------------
http://www.usenet.com

feel the light said:

Of course, bicycles would not be able to harness the fly wheel energy
in their wheels, without giving up the ability to coast. In this way,
the dual direction drive of the unicycle has an advantage, that allows
wheel inertia to drive the uni forward , whereas a bike would go click
click click. 🙂

Wheel inertia on bikes still allows them to harness the energy in their
wheels. It's what keeps them rolling when you stop pedalling.

Quoted message said:

Eric should note that the ratio of weight added, to the original wheel
weight, is not a factor.

It is a factor, in that the relative change in power required is
greater. For example if you add 2000g to a coker wheel, you've added
something like 50% extra weight to the wheel, whereas if you add it to
my 29er wheel, you've added approximately 110% extra. The relative
amount of work you need to do to accelerate the wheels will change
accordingly.

Also, as for not trying it on 29er wheels, I think you've probably not
ever ridden a big apple, especially a geared up one, there really is a
big flywheel effect on it.

What you really need to do for this to be convincing though, is rather
than trying to justify it with slightly dubious physics, actually time
some rides, and do some big rides on it. You maybe need to get more
riding experience though, if your [censored] is tired before your legs,
you're never actually getting far enough to have a real idea of when
your legs feel tired.

Joe

--
joemarshall

my pics http://gallery.unicyclist.com/albuq44
------------------------------------------------------------------------
joemarshall's Profile: http://www.unicyclist.com/profile/1545
View this thread: http://www.unicyclist.com/thread/68512

Posted Via Usenet.com Premium Usenet Newsgroup Services
----------------------------------------------------------
** SPEED ** RETENTION ** COMPLETION ** ANONYMITY **
----------------------------------------------------------
http://www.usenet.com

I have put a light 29er tube in my coker and noticed a big improvement
over the heavy coker tube. I have since switched back to the coker tube
for better reliability. I like the responsive feeling and quicker
acceleration of the lighter wheel. I know what you are saying about the
stability of the heavy wheel though and I think it would be great for
flat land riding.

One thing you might try is filling your wheel with water. They do this
on tractors for the weight and stability. you would need to take a
filler hose off a bike pump. First suck all the air out of the tube,
then fill the tire with water. Then it only takes a little bit of air
to bring it up to the pressure you like. I dont know how much water a
coker tube would hold but it would probably be about right. Just don't
leave it outside in the winter and let it freeze.

--
Tellurider
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tellurider's Profile: http://www.unicyclist.com/profile/4972
View this thread: http://www.unicyclist.com/thread/68512

Posted Via Usenet.com Premium Usenet Newsgroup Services
----------------------------------------------------------
** SPEED ** RETENTION ** COMPLETION ** ANONYMITY **
----------------------------------------------------------
http://www.usenet.com

Tellurider said:

One thing you might try is filling your wheel with water. They do this
on tractors for the weight and stability. you would need to take a
filler hose off a bike pump. First suck all the air out of the tube,
then fill the *tire* with water. Then it only takes a little bit of air
to bring it up to the pressure you like. I dont know how much water a
coker tube would hold but it would probably be about right. Just don't
leave it outside in the winter and let it freeze, but I guess that
wouldn't be a problem where you live.

do you mean tube?

--
mornish

aim:kiloornish
email: mornish at gmail dot com
msn: mornish at gmail dot com
'Miles Land' (http://mornish.blogspot.com/)
'California Mountain Unicycle Weekend 2008'
(http://cmw08.blogspot.com/)

Matt said:

Yeah I do, but, I'm lazy you see... it's this disease and uh, I haven't
taken my medication?

------------------------------------------------------------------------
mornish's Profile: http://www.unicyclist.com/profile/11658
View this thread: http://www.unicyclist.com/thread/68512

Posted Via Usenet.com Premium Usenet Newsgroup Services
----------------------------------------------------------
** SPEED ** RETENTION ** COMPLETION ** ANONYMITY **
----------------------------------------------------------
http://www.usenet.com

Tellurider said:

I dont know how much water a coker tube would hold but it would probably
be about right. Just don't leave it outside in the winter and let it
freeze, but I guess that wouldn't be a problem where you live.

A Coker tire would hold about 0.2 cu ft of water or about 13 pounds.
Water is an incompressible fluid so a tire filled with water will not
give a cushy ride. A tire filled partially with water will give some
compressibility but a sloshy ride.

--
harper

-Greg Harper

*jc is the only main man. there can be no other.*

"The 20" is suboptimal for distance work." - mikefule
------------------------------------------------------------------------
harper's Profile: http://www.unicyclist.com/profile/426
View this thread: http://www.unicyclist.com/thread/68512

Posted Via Usenet.com Premium Usenet Newsgroup Services
----------------------------------------------------------
** SPEED ** RETENTION ** COMPLETION ** ANONYMITY **
----------------------------------------------------------
http://www.usenet.com

Yeah that would be a lot, probably heavier than you would want. You
definitly wouldn't want a tire half full either. It works on tractors
but they probably only fill them part way full and at low working
speeds the water would stay at the bottom where it would do the most
good for stability.

Oh well

--
Tellurider
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tellurider's Profile: http://www.unicyclist.com/profile/4972
View this thread: http://www.unicyclist.com/thread/68512

Posted Via Usenet.com Premium Usenet Newsgroup Services
----------------------------------------------------------
** SPEED ** RETENTION ** COMPLETION ** ANONYMITY **
----------------------------------------------------------
http://www.usenet.com

'An article along similar lines of this thread, except about automobile
wheels.' (http://tinyurl.com/2usv6e)

The table at the end of the article shows the lighter weight wheel
results have improved gas mileage.

--
Chrashing

Regards,
Ken

I've been flying.......
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Chrashing's Profile: http://www.unicyclist.com/profile/7501
View this thread: http://www.unicyclist.com/thread/68512

Posted Via Usenet.com Premium Usenet Newsgroup Services
----------------------------------------------------------
** SPEED ** RETENTION ** COMPLETION ** ANONYMITY **
----------------------------------------------------------
http://www.usenet.com

so the weights give the tyre more inertia?

--
heelnipper

(\_/)
O 0
(><😉This is bunny. Copy bunny into your signature, help him on his way
to world domination.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
heelnipper's Profile: http://www.unicyclist.com/profile/14780
View this thread: http://www.unicyclist.com/thread/68512

Posted Via Usenet.com Premium Usenet Newsgroup Services
----------------------------------------------------------
** SPEED ** RETENTION ** COMPLETION ** ANONYMITY **
----------------------------------------------------------
http://www.usenet.com

this might be adaptible to muni also.

--
heelnipper

(\_/)
O 0
(><😉This is bunny. Copy bunny into your signature, help him on his way
to world domination.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
heelnipper's Profile: http://www.unicyclist.com/profile/14780
View this thread: http://www.unicyclist.com/thread/68512

Posted Via Usenet.com Premium Usenet Newsgroup Services
----------------------------------------------------------
** SPEED ** RETENTION ** COMPLETION ** ANONYMITY **
----------------------------------------------------------
http://www.usenet.com

I'm not 100% sure what you mean by "swooping turn", but I'm assuming
from your desrcription below that you are referring to a wide-radius
turn that you enter fast with only a little bit of bank and then you
continuously add more bank (to the point where you feel like you could
scoop something up off the ground when you're at the greatest degree of
bank).

For both those types of turns and the sharp, hard and fast turns (with
a lot of bank) that I sometimes like to do to hook a 90 degree turn at
an intersection, I much prefer the heavier wheel... as welll as for
general riding.

One-foot extended is much easier with the heavier wheel and the
stability allows me to do foot-plants and pirouettes (and other tricks)
with confidence. Overall, it just makes it a lot easier and more fun
for me to execute maneuvers and mess around. I could probably do most
of the maneuvers with a lighter wheel, but it would require a lot more
concentration and precision - which I'd rather put toward avoiding
pedestrians, potholes, and cabbies here in NYC!

All that being said, I'm currently riding the lighter wheel because of
it's strength advantage. If there was a heavier rim available that was
equally as strong as the airfoil, that's the one I'd have.

Chrashing said:

I'm tempted to try adding more weight to the 36" wheel just for swooping
more on turns.

...

I think the swooping turn is a result of the gyroscopic inertia counter
balancing the lean of the rider falling to the side through the turn.

--
HardcoreCokerRider

"You guys on your uni's are like the [censored] step child that's locked
away in the basement and comes out and kicks everyone's ass"

- Ray
------------------------------------------------------------------------
HardcoreCokerRider's Profile: http://www.unicyclist.com/profile/8529
View this thread: http://www.unicyclist.com/thread/68512

Posted Via Usenet.com Premium Usenet Newsgroup Services
----------------------------------------------------------
** SPEED ** RETENTION ** COMPLETION ** ANONYMITY **
----------------------------------------------------------
http://www.usenet.com

Hey HardCoreCokerRider! Your the champ of those banked (swooping
turns). It's good to see your avatar.

--
Chrashing

Regards,
Ken

I've been flying.......
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Chrashing's Profile: http://www.unicyclist.com/profile/7501
View this thread: http://www.unicyclist.com/thread/68512

Posted Via Usenet.com Premium Usenet Newsgroup Services
----------------------------------------------------------
** SPEED ** RETENTION ** COMPLETION ** ANONYMITY **
----------------------------------------------------------
http://www.usenet.com

harper said:

... Water is an incompressible fluid ...

The compressibility of water is a function of pressure and temperature.
At 0 °C in the limit of zero pressure the compressibility is 5.1×10-5
bar−1. In the zero pressure limit the compressibility reaches a
minimum of 4.4×10-5 bar−1 around 45 °C before increasing again
with increasing temperature. As the pressure is increased the
compressibility decreases, being 3.9×10-5 bar−1 at 0 °C and 1000
bar. The bulk modulus of water is 2.2×109 Pa.

The low compressibility of non-gases, and of water in particular, leads
to them often being assumed as incompressible. The low compressibility
of water means that even in the deep oceans at 4000 m depth, where
pressures are 4×107 Pa, there is only a 1.8% decrease in volume.

Still that's 1.8%

--
mgrant

The sun is the same in a relative way but you're older, shorter of
breath, and one day closer to death.
michael_j_grant (at) yahoo (dot) com
Gallery: http://tinyurl.com/34my5c
------------------------------------------------------------------------
mgrant's Profile: http://www.unicyclist.com/profile/440
View this thread: http://www.unicyclist.com/thread/68512

Posted Via Usenet.com Premium Usenet Newsgroup Services
----------------------------------------------------------
** SPEED ** RETENTION ** COMPLETION ** ANONYMITY **
----------------------------------------------------------
http://www.usenet.com

Sorry, Michael. Water is an incompressible fluid when compared to
nitrogen, or air which are both about 1 per bar I think.

Good to hear from you again.

--
harper

-Greg Harper

*jc is the only main man. there can be no other.*

"The 20" is suboptimal for distance work." - mikefule
------------------------------------------------------------------------
harper's Profile: http://www.unicyclist.com/profile/426
View this thread: http://www.unicyclist.com/thread/68512

Posted Via Usenet.com Premium Usenet Newsgroup Services
----------------------------------------------------------
** SPEED ** RETENTION ** COMPLETION ** ANONYMITY **
----------------------------------------------------------
http://www.usenet.com

I sense a new edge here: Fill your coker tires with water, remove the
brake, point 'er downslope, and let it rip! He who survives wins!

--
unisk8r
------------------------------------------------------------------------
unisk8r's Profile: http://www.unicyclist.com/profile/4660
View this thread: http://www.unicyclist.com/thread/68512

Posted Via Usenet.com Premium Usenet Newsgroup Services
----------------------------------------------------------
** SPEED ** RETENTION ** COMPLETION ** ANONYMITY **
----------------------------------------------------------
http://www.usenet.com