Cup & Cone Bottom Brackets - Any Sources?

Hands Of Stone said:

I am looking for a source for high-quality conventional cup & cone BBs
(JIS square taper).  Ritchey used to still make some but they are no
longer shown on his site.  Any ideas?

Any particular reason a cartridge BB won't work for you? FWIW--I
believe the new version house brand square taper BB at Nashbar is
being made by RPM in Taiwan and has an aluminum lock ring. Well made
and a steal at $15.

Hands Of Stone said:

I am looking for a source for high-quality conventional cup & cone BBs
(JIS square taper). Ritchey used to still make some but they are no
longer shown on his site. Any ideas?

Icycleusa.com has some of the Ritchey spindles:

<http://store.nexternal.com/shared/StoreFront/default.asp?
CS=icycles&StoreType=BtoC&Count1=452449977&Count2=369590401&CategoryID=42&Target=products.asp>

Hands Of Stone said:

I am looking for a source for high-quality conventional cup & cone BBs
(JIS square taper).  Ritchey used to still make some but they are no
longer shown on his site.  Any ideas?

have a look:
http://www.bikeforums.net/archive/index.php/t-315905.html

Hands Of Stone said:

I am looking for a source for high-quality conventional cup & cone BBs
(JIS square taper). Ritchey used to still make some but they are no
longer shown on his site. Any ideas?

I don't think that anyone is making 'high quality' cup-and-cone
BB spindles any more. High quality cups can be easily sourced from
harris cyclery or biketoolsetc or through any QBC bike shop.

A high-quality BB spindle is hollow chromoly, and accepts M8 bolts.

A low-quality BB spindle is solid and nutted, aka the sugino maxy
series with the funny letter-based size-codes.

- Don Gillies
San Diego, CA

try loosescrews, biketoolsect, universal cycles, EPDI, Jenson, Harris
Cyclery

Shimano makes a set as does Pyramid-see J&B Importers

there are chrome moly spindles if urine too that kinda thing

landotter said:

Hands Of Stone said:

I am looking for a source for high-quality conventional cup & cone BBs
(JIS square taper).  Ritchey used to still make some but they are no
longer shown on his site.  Any ideas?

Any particular reason a cartridge BB won't work for you? FWIW--I
believe the new version house brand square taper BB at Nashbar is
being made by RPM in Taiwan and has an aluminum lock ring. Well made
and a steal at $15.

I bought one 2 weeks ago (for $10!) and it is indeed MUCH nicer than I
expected. Alloy cups, very smooth bearings, very little seal drag.
Made by TH Industries, AKA RPM, as you say. I'd intended on stealing
the Truvativ out of another bike and using the Nashbar to replace it
when I built my new CX, but this turned out to be the nicer part. I
was quite impressed.

..

YEAH GET THE CARTRIDGE ride like Allworth
take a look at the winter sale items-terramar balaclava and mid
weight Nbar tights a steal.
but wash carefully before wearing. Mex aren't rinsing after dyed cloth

landotter said:

Hands Of Stone said:

I am looking for a source for high-quality conventional cup & cone BBs
(JIS square taper).  Ritchey used to still make some but they are no
longer shown on his site.  Any ideas?

Any particular reason a cartridge BB won't work for you? FWIW--I
believe the new version house brand square taper BB at Nashbar is
being made by RPM in Taiwan and has an aluminum lock ring. Well made
and a steal at $15.

No, I have nothing against cartridge. I just like everything about
the old-school BBs (except for the fixed cup): I run'em cageless with
a few extra balls, regrease and replace bearings (cheaply) when
needed, plus I like being able to adjust the bearings. Why fix what
ain't broke? Having said that, I may go with your idea as I am always
a sucker for a good deal.

datakoll said:

.

YEAH GET THE CARTRIDGE ride like Allworth
take a look at the winter sale items-terramar  balaclava and mid
weight Nbar tights a steal.
but wash carefully before wearing. Mex aren't rinsing after dyed cloth

Ha ha - get a free rash with every purchase? Good advice. I did
manange to find a NOS Lightspeed TItanium BB (cartridge, still in the
box, and unused, from 1990!) in my parts bins. But it's almost too
crazy-light for me to trust....

Hands Of Stone said:

landotter said:

On Mar 25, 6:29 am, Hands Of Stone <[email hidden]> wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I am looking for a source for high-quality conventional cup & cone BBs
(JIS square taper).  Ritchey used to still make some but they are no
longer shown on his site.  Any ideas?

Quoted message said:

Any particular reason a cartridge BB won't work for you? FWIW--I
believe the new version house brand square taper BB at Nashbar is
being made by RPM in Taiwan and has an aluminum lock ring. Well made
and a steal at $15.

No, I have nothing against cartridge.  I just like everything about
the old-school BBs (except for the fixed cup): I run'em cageless with
a few extra balls, regrease and replace bearings (cheaply) when
needed, plus I like being able to adjust the bearings.  Why fix what
ain't broke?  Having said that, I may go with your idea as I am always
a sucker for a good deal.

It's a stupidly nice BB for the money. As much as I like loose ball
hubs and headsets, which are easy to maintain--I do love cartridge
BBs. I've never managed to wear one out--though the most miles I ever
put on one was 30K on a UN73. It's a superior technology, for sure.
Careful with the alloy cups, btw--you'll want to use loctite, these
guys like to work loose if assembled with grease.

landotter said:

Hands Of Stone said:

I am looking for a source for high-quality conventional cup & cone BBs
(JIS square taper).  Ritchey used to still make some but they are no
longer shown on his site.  Any ideas?

Quoted message said:

Any particular reason a cartridge BB won't work for you? FWIW--I
believe the new version house brand square taper BB at Nashbar is
being made by RPM in Taiwan and has an aluminum lock ring. Well made
and a steal at $15.

Jobst Brandt

datakoll said:

try ... EPDI, ...

EPDI ?? The European Post Doctoral Institute ??

- Don Gillies
San Diego, CA, USA

The current design of the BBs one of the last holdovers from ancient
times that is still a perpetual problem. As I mentioned before, if it
has a left hand thread, the design is faulty, the thread being a crude
patch for the design problem, just as it is for pedal threads that
fail in spite of the orientation.

Left hand threads are used to cover for a moving interface that tends
to unscrews itself in use. As is visible on pedal crank faces, pedals
regardless of tightening, move in their contact with the crank and by
fretting erode the crank face. This erosion leads to cracks that
cause pedal eyes to fracture and throw the rider to the ground if
standing at the moment of failure.

Like pedals, BB cups also fret in the BB shell but, with the larger
thread, were moderately secure with right hand threads if tightened to
nearly unmanageable torque. That is why left hand threads are used
today to hide that they move. In time, the threads of the right hand
cup or BB shell become eroded to oblivion in time depending on which
of the two is the harder material. With steel hardened bearing cups,
the BB shell loses all its threads while with aluminum cups, the right
hand cup loses its threads.

Shimano has used a clamping method for left crank attachment to the
spindle that would also work for the BB. Meanwhile, cartridge
bearings fret on the inside and outside while the retaining cup frets
in the BB shell. That is what is wrong with the current design
especially with cartridge bearings.

In the short term, the current design works if monitored often and
maintained, but when the thread is gone, it presents a difficult
problem.

Jobst Brandt

aka Jobst Brandt said:

The current design of the BBs one of the last holdovers from ancient
times that is still a perpetual problem. As I mentioned before, if it
has a left hand thread, the design is faulty, the thread being a crude
patch for the design problem, just as it is for pedal threads that
fail in spite of the orientation.

Left hand threads are used to cover for a moving interface that tends
to unscrews itself in use. As is visible on pedal crank faces, pedals
regardless of tightening, move in their contact with the crank and by
fretting erode the crank face. This erosion leads to cracks that
cause pedal eyes to fracture and throw the rider to the ground if
standing at the moment of failure.

Like pedals, BB cups also fret in the BB shell but, with the larger
thread, were moderately secure with right hand threads if tightened to
nearly unmanageable torque. That is why left hand threads are used
today to hide that they move. In time, the threads of the right hand
cup or BB shell become eroded to oblivion in time depending on which
of the two is the harder material. With steel hardened bearing cups,
the BB shell loses all its threads while with aluminum cups, the right
hand cup loses its threads.

Shimano has used a clamping method for left crank attachment to the
spindle that would also work for the BB. Meanwhile, cartridge
bearings fret on the inside and outside while the retaining cup frets
in the BB shell. That is what is wrong with the current design
especially with cartridge bearings.

In the short term, the current design works if monitored often and
maintained, but when the thread is gone, it presents a difficult
problem.

I just throw out the bicycle if I have problems with the bottom bracket. 😉

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
The weather is here, wish you were beautiful

Tom Sherman said:

Quoted message said:

The current design of the BBs one of the last holdovers from
ancient times that is still a perpetual problem. As I mentioned
before, if it has a left hand thread, the design is faulty, the
thread being a crude patch for the design problem, just as it is
for pedal threads that fail in spite of the orientation.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Left hand threads are used to cover for a moving interface that
tends to unscrews itself in use. As is visible on pedal crank
faces, pedals regardless of tightening, move in their contact with
the crank and by fretting erode the crank face. This erosion leads
to cracks that cause pedal eyes to fracture and throw the rider to
the ground if standing at the moment of failure.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Like pedals, BB cups also fret in the BB shell but, with the larger
thread, were moderately secure with right hand threads if tightened
to nearly unmanageable torque. That is why left hand threads are
used today to hide that they move. In time, the threads of the
right hand cup or BB shell become eroded to oblivion in time
depending on which of the two is the harder material. With steel
hardened bearing cups, the BB shell loses all its threads while
with aluminum cups, the right hand cup loses its threads.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Shimano has used a clamping method for left crank attachment to the
spindle that would also work for the BB. Meanwhile, cartridge
bearings fret on the inside and outside while the retaining cup
frets in the BB shell. That is what is wrong with the current
design especially with cartridge bearings.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

In the short term, the current design works if monitored often and
maintained, but when the thread is gone, it presents a difficult
problem.

Quoted message said:

I just throw out the bicycle if I have problems with the bottom
bracket.

In contrast, I had my involuntarily threadless BB bored out and a
hardened threaded steel sleeve silver soldered to keep my custom frame
of many years in service. I have a great frame builder and bikie
friend who has great metal working skills who also made the pedal
crank modification which solved the pedal to crank problem.

Jobst Brandt

Quoted message said:

Tom Sherman said:

Quoted message said:

The current design of the BBs one of the last holdovers from
ancient times that is still a perpetual problem. As I mentioned
before, if it has a left hand thread, the design is faulty, the
thread being a crude patch for the design problem, just as it is
for pedal threads that fail in spite of the orientation.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Left hand threads are used to cover for a moving interface that
tends to unscrews itself in use. As is visible on pedal crank
faces, pedals regardless of tightening, move in their contact with
the crank and by fretting erode the crank face. This erosion leads
to cracks that cause pedal eyes to fracture and throw the rider to
the ground if standing at the moment of failure.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Like pedals, BB cups also fret in the BB shell but, with the larger
thread, were moderately secure with right hand threads if tightened
to nearly unmanageable torque. That is why left hand threads are
used today to hide that they move. In time, the threads of the
right hand cup or BB shell become eroded to oblivion in time
depending on which of the two is the harder material. With steel
hardened bearing cups, the BB shell loses all its threads while
with aluminum cups, the right hand cup loses its threads.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Shimano has used a clamping method for left crank attachment to the
spindle that would also work for the BB. Meanwhile, cartridge
bearings fret on the inside and outside while the retaining cup
frets in the BB shell. That is what is wrong with the current
design especially with cartridge bearings.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

In the short term, the current design works if monitored often and
maintained, but when the thread is gone, it presents a difficult
problem.

Quoted message said:

I just throw out the bicycle if I have problems with the bottom
bracket.

In contrast, I had my involuntarily threadless BB bored out and a
hardened threaded steel sleeve silver soldered to keep my custom frame
of many years in service.

otoh, by not simply replacing a worn out frame, you're deliberately
avoiding bothering to research improvements in frame design such as
over-size tube which help mitigate shimmy. or aluminum. or carbon. as
someone that like to express opinion on these materials, the least you
should do is bother to actually use them.

Quoted message said:

I have a great frame builder and bikie
friend who has great metal working skills who also made the pedal
crank modification which solved the pedal to crank problem.

what "crank problem" is that? when is the last time you saw pedal eye
breakage on an "unmodified" crank?

jim beam said:

[...]
otoh, by not simply replacing a worn out frame, you're deliberately
avoiding bothering to research improvements in frame design such as
over-size tube which help mitigate shimmy. or aluminum.

Aluminium makes for a very poor frame. Aluminium alloy with proper heat
treatment can make a perfectly fine frame however.

Quoted message said:

or carbon.

Just carbon? Is this a diamond frame (pun intended)?

Quoted message said:

as
someone that like to express opinion on these materials, the least you
should do is bother to actually use them.

One would think a former materials scientist would be more precise in
terminology. Even a "lightweight" knows better.

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
The weather is here, wish you were beautiful

jim beam said:

otoh, by not simply replacing a worn out frame, you're deliberately
avoiding bothering to research improvements in frame design such as
over-size tube which help mitigate shimmy. or aluminum. or carbon. as
someone that like to express opinion on these materials, the least you
should do is bother to actually use them.

otooh, but fixing a frame that is otherwise still serviceable he not
only avoids wasting resources but keeps a valued old friend by his
side for years to come.

Not everyone buys into the throwaway world or has to always run with
the supposedly latest and greatest.

Of course, since you're goal wasn't really to comment intelligently on
the thread, but instead just to flame Jobst, I guess that's
irrelevant.

(Donald Gillies) said:

datakoll said:

try ...  EPDI, ...

EPDI ??  The European Post Doctoral Institute ??

- Don Gillies
San Diego, CA, USA

EPDI stocks EOM Shimano back to year one. They're in Bakersfield