Why doesn't brining dehydrate turkey?

In article <[email hidden]>, Peter Aitken

Quoted message said:

As I understand it the effects of brining have nothing (or little) to do with osmosis - rather the
salt changes the structure of proteins in the meat so they bind/hold more water and hence the meat
is jucier. My post on osmosis was in response to someone's mistaken idea that salt does not cross
membranes in muscle tissue. But in any case, since both salt and water can cross membranes,
although slowly, the end result of osmosis if the meat is left in the brine long enough would be
an equilibrium between the brining fluid and the intracellular fluid. Perhaps this is why if you
brine too long the meat ends up too salty.

In the recent issue of Cooks Illustrated there is an article, "Why Brining Works" -- The article
starts with a statement that many have attributed the added juiciness of a brined chicken to
osmosis, and the author decided to test this explanation. The author reasoned that pure unsalted
water should add moisture as well as a brine, because water alone has the highest possible water
concentration (100%). So, one chicken was taken from the package and not treated, one chicken was
soaked in unsalted water, and another chicken was soaked in a brine. Both of the chickens soaked
gained 6% by weight. However, during roasting, the chicken taken straight from the package lost 18%
of its original weight, the chicken soaked in unsalted water lost 12% of its presoak weight, and the
brined chicken only lost 7% of its presoak weight.

Conclusion: Water *and* Salt are playing a crucial role by aiding in the retention of water.

Table salt is made up of two ions, sodium and chlorine, that are oppositely charged. Protein are
large molecules that contain a mosaic of charges. When proteins are placed in a solution containing
salt, they readjust their shape to accommodate the opposing charges from the salt ions. The
rearrangement of the protein in the meat compromises the structural integrity of the meat, reducing
its overall toughness. It also creates gaps that fill up with water, and this water is less likely
to evaporate during cooking. The result is meat that is both juicy and tender.

- Cooks Illustrated, January & February 2004, page 11

--
Clay Irving <[email hidden]> I expect nothing. I fear no one. I am free.
- Nikos Kazantzakis

Peter Aitken said:

"Katra" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Peter Aitken said:

"notbob" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:MVpCb.97537$_M.510603@attbi_s54...
> On 2003-12-12, Peter Aitken <[email hidden]> wrote:
>
> > involved - but your claim that salt does not move across membranes

is

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

dead
> > wrong.
>
> References, please. Everything I've read on the net is counter to

your

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

claim.
> Also, let's try a little trimming, please. Thank you.
>
> nb

"Physiology" by Robert M. Byrne and Matthew N. Levy, 2nd edition, Mosby Press, 1988. This is
the book I used as a text when teaching physiology

to

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

students at Duke Medical Center. Or look in any general physiology or neurophysiology book.
Also, I worked as a researcher in this field for

over

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

20 years - I *do* know what I am talking about. That's the problem with using the web as a
source for scientific and technical information -

there's

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

so much garbage out there.

--
Peter Aitken

The process of Osmosis causes salt (and other solutes) to move across the cell membrane from a
higher to a lower concentration...

I do not currently have the time to read those texts. :-)

Nature prefers equilibrium, so why does water move across the membrane to hydrate the meat
rather than the water moving from the meat to dilute the brine, hence drying the meat out more?
Especially since NaCl is a larger molecule than H2O? (unless my chemistry is off, which is
possible... <G>😉

I understand that brining works, but being the eternal scientist, I'd like to understand
why... <G>

As I understand it the effects of brining have nothing (or little) to do with osmosis - rather the
salt changes the structure of proteins in the meat so they bind/hold more water and hence the meat
is jucier. My post on osmosis was in response to someone's mistaken idea that salt does not cross
membranes in muscle tissue. But in any case, since both salt and water can cross membranes,
although slowly, the end result of osmosis if the meat is left in the brine long enough would be
an equilibrium between the brining fluid and the intracellular fluid. Perhaps this is why if you
brine too long the meat ends up too salty.

--
Peter Aitken

Ok, so, my final question is.....

if you know how to cover and/or baste a turkey, and cook at the correct time and temperature.....

why do you brine a turkey at all when you know that a higher sodium content is bad, and a properly
cooked/basted bird is utterly delicious??? :-d

I'm just asking this because my late mom (and now myself) have had a few successful turkey bakes
without all the time, trouble and folderol of brining!!! :-) Please explain this to me!

K.

--

Quoted message said:

^,,^< Cats-haven Hobby Farm >^,,^< [email hidden] >^,,^<

"There are millions of intelligent species in the universe, and they are all owned by
cats" -- Asimov

Custom handcrafts, Sterling silver beaded jewelry
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On Sun, 14 Dec 2003 17:19:39 -0600, Katra <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Reg said:

Katra said:

I'm just asking this because my late mom (and now myself) have had a few successful turkey
bakes without all the time, trouble and folderol of brining!!! :-) Please explain this to me!

The answer is simple enough. At your next gathering cook two birds using the same recipe except
for one factor, one is brined and one is not. Put them both out and the brined disappears faster.
That's been my consistent experience, and it's a pretty good reason.

--
Reg email: RegForte (at) (that free MS email service) (dot) com

Good answer. :-)

K.

Yes, it's an excellent answer. If you want to prove it to yourself before doing two big
expensive birds, go by a 6 pack of chicken drumsticks. Brine 3 and leave 3 virgin. It's a cheap
way to make your decision. I haven't been following this thread so hopefully I'm not repeating
what has been said.

At the 2002 Chicago Cook-In, Hag made fried chicken which she brought in brine. At the 2003 Midwest
Cook-In I made it in her honor because she wasn't able to get here from Okinawa this year. It's
fabulous, and the key is the brine.

Here's a link with the brine recipe. Look for Hag's fried chicken. Brine them and deep fry, broil,
bake, grill or whatever you want.

If you can't tell the difference then you've answered your question for less than 5 bucks, and can
eat the experience.

home.att.netchicago02Open ↗

Gar

Gar said:

Yes, it's an excellent answer. If you want to prove it to yourself before doing two big
expensive birds, go by a 6 pack of chicken drumsticks. Brine 3 and leave 3 virgin. It's a cheap
way to make your decision. I haven't been following this thread so hopefully I'm not repeating
what has been said.

If you really feel the need to prove it to yourself, use breasts. The dark meat doesn't seem to take
to brine (or need at) as much as the white meat, IMHO.

-sw

"notbob" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:4zKCb.40620$8y1.171556@attbi_s52...

Quoted message said:

Peter Aitken said:

As I understand it the effects of brining have nothing (or little) to do with osmosis - rather
the salt changes the structure of proteins in the

meat

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

so they bind/hold more water and hence the meat is jucier. My post on osmosis was in response to
someone's mistaken idea that salt does not

cross

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

membranes in muscle tissue. But in any case, since both salt and water

can

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

cross membranes, although slowly, the end result of osmosis if the meat

is

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

left in the brine long enough would be an equilibrium between the

brining

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

fluid and the intracellular fluid. Perhaps this is why if you brine too

long

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

the meat ends up too salty.

"As I understand it...". "Perhaps...".

Thank you for not clearing that up.

nb

If you cannot understand a clear and accurate explanation, guess where the fault lies? I bet you 50
cents that you will continue believing the nonsense you posted about osmosis. Congrats - another
oppotunity to learn something passed up.

--
Peter Aitken

Remove the [censored] from my email address before using.

notbob said:

Peter Aitken said:

As I understand it the effects of brining have nothing (or little) to do with osmosis - rather the
salt changes the structure of proteins in the meat so they bind/hold more water and hence the meat
is jucier. My post on osmosis was in response to someone's mistaken idea that salt does not cross
membranes in muscle tissue. But in any case, since both salt and water can cross membranes,
although slowly, the end result of osmosis if the meat is left in the brine long enough would be
an equilibrium between the brining fluid and the intracellular fluid. Perhaps this is why if you
brine too long the meat ends up too salty.

"As I understand it...". "Perhaps...".

Thank you for not clearing that up.

C'mon, nb. You said your explanation "made the most sense" and that you still had some problems with
it. Sounds like "As I understand it..." and "Perhaps..." from you as well.

As it ought to be since no one has offered an explanation that takes all eventualities into full
consideration.

Pastorio

Katra said:

I'm just asking this because my late mom (and now myself) have had a few successful turkey bakes
without all the time, trouble and folderol of brining!!! :-) Please explain this to me!

The answer is simple enough. At your next gathering cook two birds using the same recipe except for
one factor, one is brined and one is not. Put them both out and the brined disappears faster. That's
been my consistent experience, and it's a pretty good reason.

--
Reg email: RegForte (at) (that free MS email service) (dot) com

Katra <[email hidden]> wrote in
:"]news:[email hidden]:

Quoted message said:

Peter Aitken said:

"Katra" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Peter Aitken wrote:
>
> "notbob" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:MVpCb.97537$_M.510603@attbi_s54...
> > On 2003-12-12, Peter Aitken <[email hidden]> wrote:
> >
> > > involved - but your claim that salt does not move across membranes

is

Quoted message said:

> dead
> > > wrong.
> >
> > References, please. Everything I've read on the net is counter to

your

Quoted message said:

> claim.
> > Also, let's try a little trimming, please. Thank you.
> >
> > nb
>
> "Physiology" by Robert M. Byrne and Matthew N. Levy, 2nd edition, Mosby Press, 1988. This is
> the book I used as a text when teaching physiology

to

Quoted message said:

> students at Duke Medical Center. Or look in any general physiology or neurophysiology book.
> Also, I worked as a researcher in this field for

over

Quoted message said:

> 20 years - I *do* know what I am talking about. That's the problem with using the web as a
> source for scientific and technical information -

there's

Quoted message said:

> so much garbage out there.
>
> --
> Peter Aitken
>

The process of Osmosis causes salt (and other solutes) to move across the cell membrane from a
higher to a lower concentration...

I do not currently have the time to read those texts. :-)

Nature prefers equilibrium, so why does water move across the membrane to hydrate the meat
rather than the water moving from the meat to dilute the brine, hence drying the meat out more?
Especially since NaCl is a larger molecule than H2O? (unless my chemistry is off, which is
possible... <G>😉

I understand that brining works, but being the eternal scientist, I'd like to understand
why... <G>

As I understand it the effects of brining have nothing (or little) to do with osmosis - rather
the salt changes the structure of proteins in the meat so they bind/hold more water and hence the
meat is jucier. My post on osmosis was in response to someone's mistaken idea that salt does not
cross membranes in muscle tissue. But in any case, since both salt and water can cross membranes,
although slowly, the end result of osmosis if the meat is left in the brine long enough would be
an equilibrium between the brining fluid and the intracellular fluid. Perhaps this is why if you
brine too long the meat ends up too salty.

--
Peter Aitken

Ok, so, my final question is.....

if you know how to cover and/or baste a turkey, and cook at the correct time and temperature.....

why do you brine a turkey at all when you know that a higher sodium content is bad, and a properly
cooked/basted bird is utterly delicious??? :-d

I'm just asking this because my late mom (and now myself) have had a few successful turkey bakes
without all the time, trouble and folderol of brining!!! :-) Please explain this to me!

K.

I find it very little trouble to mix up a brine and immerse a turkey for 24 hrs. Takes less then 15
minutes prep and execution time. This method allows for moister meat and for some flavour...Try
adding lime or orange juice to the brine...

If you are happy without brining why all this folderol from you? I don't have to convince you for me
to be happy.

Some like warm apple pie and ice cream others just apple pie and again still others room temp apple
pie with a sharp cheese. We all have differing tastes and attitudes. And frankly I don't care how it
works, but do enjoy that it works. I find it works well with pork as well. If it tastes salty to you
perhaps you use too strong a brine or are more sensitive to the taste of salt than I.
--
And the beet goes on! (or under) -me just a while ago

Gar said:

Katra said:

Reg said:

Katra wrote:

> I'm just asking this because my late mom (and now myself) have had a few successful turkey
> bakes without all the time, trouble and folderol of brining!!! :-) Please explain this to me!

The answer is simple enough. At your next gathering cook two birds using the same recipe except
for one factor, one is brined and one is not. Put them both out and the brined disappears
faster. That's been my consistent experience, and it's a pretty good reason.

--
Reg email: RegForte (at) (that free MS email service) (dot) com

Good answer. :-)

K.

Yes, it's an excellent answer. If you want to prove it to yourself before doing two big
expensive birds, go by a 6 pack of chicken drumsticks. Brine 3 and leave 3 virgin. It's a cheap
way to make your decision. I haven't been following this thread so hopefully I'm not repeating
what has been said.

At the 2002 Chicago Cook-In, Hag made fried chicken which she brought in brine. At the 2003
Midwest Cook-In I made it in her honor because she wasn't able to get here from Okinawa this year.
It's fabulous, and the key is the brine.

Here's a link with the brine recipe. Look for Hag's fried chicken. Brine them and deep fry, broil,
bake, grill or whatever you want.

If you can't tell the difference then you've answered your question for less than 5 bucks, and can
eat the experience.

home.att.netchicago02Open ↗

Gar

I see it's time to experiment again... Heaven knows I'm always open to new culinary methodology. <G>

Does brining work with chicken parts? How about boneless skinless chicken boobies? That is one Item
I have a lot of "dryness" issues with.

The den is nearly done, so hopefully will be getting back into serious body building after the first
of the year. :-P The primary diet is chicken breasts.

Pork roasts, water fowl etc.?

This kind of thing is exactly why I signed on to this list!

Danke!

K.

--

Quoted message said:

^,,^< Cats-haven Hobby Farm >^,,^< [email hidden] >^,,^<

"There are millions of intelligent species in the universe, and they are all owned by
cats" -- Asimov

Custom handcrafts, Sterling silver beaded jewelry
cgi6.ebay.comeBayISAPI.dllOpen ↗

Steve Wertz said:

Gar said:

Yes, it's an excellent answer. If you want to prove it to yourself before doing two big
expensive birds, go by a 6 pack of chicken drumsticks. Brine 3 and leave 3 virgin. It's a cheap
way to make your decision. I haven't been following this thread so hopefully I'm not repeating
what has been said.

If you really feel the need to prove it to yourself, use breasts. The dark meat doesn't seem to
take to brine (or need at) as much as the white meat, IMHO.

-sw

Funny, I just asked that question in another post. :-) I like to buy just breasts, better yet,
boneless skinless chicken breasts.

I have a h*ll of a time keeping those from being dry, even in stir fry's. If brining will fix that
problem, I'm all ears, forks, whatever... :-)

K.

--

Quoted message said:

^,,^< Cats-haven Hobby Farm >^,,^< [email hidden] >^,,^<

"There are millions of intelligent species in the universe, and they are all owned by
cats" -- Asimov

Custom handcrafts, Sterling silver beaded jewelry
cgi6.ebay.comeBayISAPI.dllOpen ↗

Bob Pastorio said:

C'mon, nb. You said your explanation "made the most sense" and that you still had some problems
with it. Sounds like "As I understand it..." and "Perhaps..." from you as well.

I never made the brag, "I *do* know what I'm talking about".

nb

Peter Aitken said:

"notbob" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:4zKCb.40620$8y1.171556@attbi_s52...

Quoted message said:

Peter Aitken said:

As I understand it the effects of brining have nothing (or little) to do with osmosis - rather
the salt changes the structure of proteins in the

meat

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

so they bind/hold more water and hence the meat is jucier. My post on osmosis was in response
to someone's mistaken idea that salt does not

cross

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

membranes in muscle tissue. But in any case, since both salt and water

can

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

cross membranes, although slowly, the end result of osmosis if the meat

is

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

left in the brine long enough would be an equilibrium between the

brining

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

fluid and the intracellular fluid. Perhaps this is why if you brine too

long

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

the meat ends up too salty.

"As I understand it...". "Perhaps...".

Thank you for not clearing that up.

nb

If you cannot understand a clear and accurate explanation, guess where the fault lies? I bet you
50 cents that you will continue believing the nonsense you posted about osmosis. Congrats -
another oppotunity to learn something passed up.

Your explanation is not clear. Your use of "Perhaps..." gives the impression you're not too clear
on it either. You claim a mechanism other than osmosis is at work, but don't elaborate. You give
me a reference of a $90 book on living tissue I don't own and resort to impugning my abilities
rather than provide an explanation I am more than willing to listen to. Not to worry. I'll
research it myself.

nb

Reg said:

Katra said:

I'm just asking this because my late mom (and now myself) have had a few successful turkey bakes
without all the time, trouble and folderol of brining!!! :-) Please explain this to me!

The answer is simple enough. At your next gathering cook two birds using the same recipe except
for one factor, one is brined and one is not. Put them both out and the brined disappears faster.
That's been my consistent experience, and it's a pretty good reason.

--
Reg email: RegForte (at) (that free MS email service) (dot) com

Good answer. :-)

K.

--

Quoted message said:

^,,^< Cats-haven Hobby Farm >^,,^< [email hidden] >^,,^<

"There are millions of intelligent species in the universe, and they are all owned by
cats" -- Asimov

Custom handcrafts, Sterling silver beaded jewelry
cgi6.ebay.comeBayISAPI.dllOpen ↗

"Reg" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Katra said:

I'm just asking this because my late mom (and now myself) have had a few successful turkey bakes
without all the time, trouble and folderol of brining!!! :-) Please explain this to me!

The answer is simple enough. At your next gathering cook two birds using the same recipe except
for one factor, one is brined and one is not. Put them both out and the brined disappears faster.
That's been my consistent experience, and it's a pretty good reason.

--
Reg email: RegForte (at) (that free MS email service) (dot) com

That's it in a nutshell - brined tastes better. Plus a properly brined bird is not salty - you might
add a little less salt at the table but the total intake will not be greater.

--
Peter Aitken

Remove the [censored] from my email address before using.

hahabogus said:

Katra <[email hidden]> wrote in :"]news:[email hidden]:

Quoted message said:

Peter Aitken said:

"Katra" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...
>
>
> Peter Aitken wrote:
> >
> > "notbob" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:MVpCb.97537$_M.510603@attbi_s54...
> > > On 2003-12-12, Peter Aitken <[email hidden]> wrote:
> > >
> > > > involved - but your claim that salt does not move across membranes
is
> > dead
> > > > wrong.
> > >
> > > References, please. Everything I've read on the net is counter to
your
> > claim.
> > > Also, let's try a little trimming, please. Thank you.
> > >
> > > nb
> >
> > "Physiology" by Robert M. Byrne and Matthew N. Levy, 2nd edition, Mosby Press, 1988. This
> > is the book I used as a text when teaching physiology
to
> > students at Duke Medical Center. Or look in any general physiology or neurophysiology book.
> > Also, I worked as a researcher in this field for
over
> > 20 years - I *do* know what I am talking about. That's the problem with using the web as a
> > source for scientific and technical information -
there's
> > so much garbage out there.
> >
> > --
> > Peter Aitken
> >
>
> The process of Osmosis causes salt (and other solutes) to move across the cell membrane from
> a higher to a lower concentration...
>
> I do not currently have the time to read those texts. :-)
>
> Nature prefers equilibrium, so why does water move across the membrane to hydrate the meat
> rather than the water moving from the meat to dilute the brine, hence drying the meat out
> more? Especially since NaCl is a larger molecule than H2O? (unless my chemistry is off, which
> is possible... <G>😉
>
> I understand that brining works, but being the eternal scientist, I'd like to understand
> why... <G>
>

As I understand it the effects of brining have nothing (or little) to do with osmosis - rather
the salt changes the structure of proteins in the meat so they bind/hold more water and hence
the meat is jucier. My post on osmosis was in response to someone's mistaken idea that salt
does not cross membranes in muscle tissue. But in any case, since both salt and water can cross
membranes, although slowly, the end result of osmosis if the meat is left in the brine long
enough would be an equilibrium between the brining fluid and the intracellular fluid. Perhaps
this is why if you brine too long the meat ends up too salty.

--
Peter Aitken

Ok, so, my final question is.....

if you know how to cover and/or baste a turkey, and cook at the correct time and
temperature.....

why do you brine a turkey at all when you know that a higher sodium content is bad, and a
properly cooked/basted bird is utterly delicious??? :-d

I'm just asking this because my late mom (and now myself) have had a few successful turkey bakes
without all the time, trouble and folderol of brining!!! :-) Please explain this to me!

K.

I find it very little trouble to mix up a brine and immerse a turkey for 24 hrs. Takes less then
15 minutes prep and execution time. This method allows for moister meat and for some flavour...Try
adding lime or orange juice to the brine...

If you are happy without brining why all this folderol from you? I don't have to convince you for
me to be happy.

Because I was curious, as I've never tried it, and am ALWAYS open to new cooking techniques! I was
not asking to be argumentative silly! I am really interested in the how and why.

So, is brining an interesting technique for other types of meats, and how does it differ from
marinating? After all, my favorite marinade for red meats involves either teryaki and/or soy
sauce with the other spices and/or sweetners, so overall there is not much difference as both are
high in salt.

Anyone ever added herbs/spices to the brine to make it more of a marinade?

Quoted message said:

Some like warm apple pie and ice cream others just apple pie and again still others room temp
apple pie with a sharp cheese. We all have differing tastes and attitudes. And frankly I don't
care how it works, but do enjoy that it works. I find it works well with pork as well. If it
tastes salty to you perhaps you use too strong a brine or are more sensitive to the taste of
salt than I.
--
And the beet goes on! (or under) -me just a while ago

As I said, I've never tried it. :-)

As for pork, I usually do the garlic sliver poke thing with pork roasts and then cover it over with
fresh herbs so the flavor cooks in as it roasts.

The problem that I often have with pork roasts is that, if I don't garlic it, it tends to have a
"musty" overtone as a leftover. :-P

I've never tried soaking an entire pork shoulder roast.

Time to play with my food again! <G>

K.

--

Quoted message said:

^,,^< Cats-haven Hobby Farm >^,,^< [email hidden] >^,,^<

"There are millions of intelligent species in the universe, and they are all owned by
cats" -- Asimov

Custom handcrafts, Sterling silver beaded jewelry
cgi6.ebay.comeBayISAPI.dllOpen ↗

"Reg" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Katra said:

I'm just asking this because my late mom (and now myself) have had a few successful turkey bakes
without all the time, trouble and folderol of brining!!! :-) Please explain this to me!

The answer is simple enough. At your next gathering cook two birds using the same recipe except
for one factor, one is brined and one is not. Put them both out and the brined disappears faster.
That's been my consistent experience, and it's a pretty good reason.

I find that switching to free range chicken, I brine not (they're 20¢/lb more than the Perdue at my
local mart). However, free range/local farm raised turkeys are exponentially more per pound than the
chickens are, so I go with the 'regular' turkeys and always brine them. I prefer meat without
antibiotics added, hence my leaning to organic, plus if I can buy locally, I'm keeping my distance
from the doofi.

<Deep breath> Anyway, Reg's advice is true and correct; try both side by side (as any real
comparison should be done) and you'll see.

Jack Poultrified Forest

Katra said:

Steve Wertz said:

Gar said:

Yes, it's an excellent answer. If you want to prove it to yourself before doing two big
expensive birds, go by a 6 pack of chicken drumsticks. Brine 3 and leave 3 virgin. It's a cheap
way to make your decision. I haven't been following this thread so hopefully I'm not repeating
what has been said.

If you really feel the need to prove it to yourself, use breasts. The dark meat doesn't seem to
take to brine (or need at) as much as the white meat, IMHO.

I don't agree. I routinely brine whole leg quarters and boneless thighs. They're much improved.

Quoted message said:

Funny, I just asked that question in another post. :-) I like to buy just breasts, better yet,
boneless skinless chicken breasts.

I have a h*ll of a time keeping those from being dry, even in stir fry's. If brining will fix that
problem, I'm all ears, forks, whatever... :-)

There are two simple solutions if you must use breast meat:
1) Don't overcook them. The degree of doneness is the determinant of how moist they'll seem to you.
2) Brine them *and* don't overcook them. They'll be a bit more tolerant of culinary abuse like
overcooking.

The solution I prefer is to buy boneless, skinless chicken thighs at about 1/2 the price. They're
more forgiving in cooking, have a better *bite* to them and have considerably more flavor.

Chicken pieces can be brined rather nicely and it only takes a few hours.

Pastorio

Jack Schidt® said:

I find that switching to free range chicken, I brine not (they're 20¢/lb more than the Perdue at
my local mart). However, free range/local farm raised turkeys are exponentially more per pound
than the chickens are, so I go with the 'regular' turkeys and always brine them. I prefer meat
without antibiotics added, hence my leaning to organic, plus if I can buy locally, I'm keeping my
distance from the doofi.

Good point. I have a problem in that I haven't found a source of good free range chickens in my
area, or at least a product that justifies the cost. That's partly subjective though, and I'm still
looking in earnest.

I did find an outstanding free range duck that I'm quite excited about. Unfortunately they're only
selling to restaurants at this point, but I have high hopes that will change.

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Bob Pastorio said:

Katra said:

Steve Wertz said:

On Sun, 14 Dec 2003 19:49:23 -0600, Gar <> wrote:

>Yes, it's an excellent answer. If you want to prove it to yourself before doing two big
>expensive birds, go by a 6 pack of chicken drumsticks. Brine 3 and leave 3 virgin. It's a cheap
>way to make your decision. I haven't been following this thread so hopefully I'm not repeating
>what has been said.

If you really feel the need to prove it to yourself, use breasts. The dark meat doesn't seem to
take to brine (or need at) as much as the white meat, IMHO.

I don't agree. I routinely brine whole leg quarters and boneless thighs. They're much improved.

I do get boneless thighs a lot but they tend to be higher in fat...

Guess I need to google for the actual brining recipes and give that a shot, but I seldom have
problems with them straight out of the bag.

I did read the bag tho' and it appears that many of those frozen products are more or less
pre-brined???

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Funny, I just asked that question in another post. :-) I like to buy just breasts, better yet,
boneless skinless chicken breasts.

I have a h*ll of a time keeping those from being dry, even in stir fry's. If brining will fix
that problem, I'm all ears, forks, whatever... :-)

There are two simple solutions if you must use breast meat:
1) Don't overcook them. The degree of doneness is the determinant of how moist they'll seem
to you.

That's pretty standard. One of my biggest gripes is that many places overcook meat and cook it to
death! :-P I try very hard not to do that.

Quoted message said:

2) Brine them *and* don't overcook them. They'll be a bit more tolerant of culinary abuse like
overcooking.

Time to experiment. :-)

Quoted message said:

The solution I prefer is to buy boneless, skinless chicken thighs at about 1/2 the price. They're
more forgiving in cooking, have a better *bite* to them and have considerably more flavor.

Chicken pieces can be brined rather nicely and it only takes a few hours.

Pastorio

Thighs really are my favorite, I was just trying to cut back on fat and calories by using more
breast meat.

Thanks muchos for the input!

K.

--

Quoted message said:

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