Danny Pate... yeah.

helmutRoole2 said:

Hey, I'm sure he's hitting the sauce every now and then like the rest, but a fifth place in the final TT of the Giro... pretty good stuff for a guy who's done ninty percent of his racing on American soil.

U-23 TT world champion a couple years back, btw.

For those who think racing in North America is less -- much less -- than minor league, think again (WTB).

Without insulting US racing - TT's are much different to road racing. In a TT you can choose your own pace and train on your own. Road racing is a completely different kettle of fish - it required group racing acclimatisation.

In terms of TT's I'd say pretty much every country in the world can be on par - when it comes to road racing you need to have riders from around the globe competing during their in form period in your country. Something the US will probably never have. Likewise Aus, South Africa, China, Japan etc.

Without sounding too Eurocentric - that is where the hot sh!t happens - the US and all the other counrties I mentioned will always be road racing minor leaguers...

Eldron said:

Without insulting US racing - TT's are much different to road racing. In a TT you can choose your own pace and train on your own. Road racing is a completely different kettle of fish - it required group racing acclimatisation.

In terms of TT's I'd say pretty much every country in the world can be on par - when it comes to road racing you need to have riders from around the globe competing during their in form period in your country. Something the US will probably never have. Likewise Aus, South Africa, China, Japan etc.

Without sounding too Eurocentric - that is where the hot sh!t happens - the US and all the other counrties I mentioned will always be road racing minor leaguers...

I'm going to be an ass and just say it...... Lance won how many tours?? :p😄 Go Lance!!! 😄

I think you're right though. There isn't enough interest in the sport in non european countries for there to be enough competition to build numerous amounts of good cyclists.

coneofsilence said:

I'm going to be an ass and just say it...... Lance won how many tours?? :p😄 Go Lance!!! 😄

I think you're right though. There isn't enough interest in the sport in non european countries for there to be enough competition to build numerous amounts of good cyclists.

He he he. You americans 🙄

There is a big difference between an american racing in europe and the US domestic circuit. There is no reason an american (or any other non euro athlete) can't do well in europe if they live, train and race there. Like Lance 😄

South Africa has a few domestic teams that venture into Europe for a few months a year - at first they get their asses handed to them at every race, then they start getting into the higher intensity racing and sometimes even win a few regional races. Then they come home, clean up the local circuit for a while and then drop back to where they were before they left. I would imagine it's the same the (non euro) world over.

It's just a different league...

helmutRoole2 said:

Hey, I'm sure he's hitting the sauce every now and then like the rest, but a fifth place in the final TT of the Giro... pretty good stuff for a guy who's done ninty percent of his racing on American soil.

U-23 TT world champion a couple years back, btw.

For those who think racing in North America is less -- much less -- than minor league, think again (WTB).

I think Philly Week, old SanFran GP, Georgia, Cali, are all quality races which are not below standard to 2.HC and 1.HC races in Europe.

I think Philly series is above the standard of the French Cup one day races.

Eldron said:

He he he. You americans 🙄

Haha! Coney, you're doing really well here and have bagged your second victim. Eldron, if you think Coneo is American, think again. 😉

TheDarkLord said:

Haha! Coney, you're doing really well here and have bagged your second victim. Eldron, if you think Coneo is American, think again. 😉

I am the master of deception....😄

Eldron said:

He he he. You americans 🙄

There is a big difference between an american racing in europe and the US domestic circuit. There is no reason an american (or any other non euro athlete) can't do well in europe if they live, train and race there. Like Lance 😄

South Africa has a few domestic teams that venture into Europe for a few months a year - at first they get their asses handed to them at every race, then they start getting into the higher intensity racing and sometimes even win a few regional races. Then they come home, clean up the local circuit for a while and then drop back to where they were before they left. I would imagine it's the same the (non euro) world over.

It's just a different league...

disagree, Navigators almost won Gent Wevelgem, which is in the top 10 one day races in Europe. Vogels was unlucky to lose to Klier, and he used his entire team to provide top notch support.

Barloworld, Konica, HSBC have never won jack [censored].

Barloworld only became competitive when Corti won the internal battle and transformed it into an Italian team and doped up a storm. Where are the guys like Tiaan Kannemeyer, and George?

thunder said:

I think Philly Week, old SanFran GP, Georgia, Cali, are all quality races which are not below standard to 2.HC and 1.HC races in Europe.

I think Philly series is above the standard of the French Cup one day races.

Philly used to be. The quality has slipped the past few years.

Malkmus said:

Philly used to be. The quality has slipped the past few years.

when CSC and T-Mobile still bring teams, the quality is still decent.

The US cycling circuit is for semi-retired pro's or the ones who don't make it...... in other words its like the basketball league in Australia...... its full of US imports who couldn't make it in their own system....... they are awesome in Australia but [censored] in the US... the same goes here...... sure it may produce good racing but these guys are not world beaters....... until you see the Cat2 races in Belgium or France then you'll know what the real deal is....... the ones that get through and into Europe "get a program" and succeed.

In saying all that American has produced two of the best cyclists I've ever seen.... Greg LeMond and Andy Hampsten..... those two would make anyone's top 20 of all time. Easy.

In closing Ben Johnson the sprinter... he sums it up nicely;

Officials maintain they are doing all they can to combat drug abuse but Johnson compares those claims to the reluctance of major league sports in America to introduce testing programmes in line with other sports worldwide.

Steroids are reported to be rife in gridiron football. Baseball's all time home-run hitter Barry Bonds not only has an asterix against his record but is under indictment, along with an Olympian string of U.S. runners as a consequence of the BALCO laboratory trials, on drugs-related charges.
Johnson added: 'The Americans are ignorant. The dads spend a thousand dollars a game on seats and food to take their kids to see games played and history made but the owners of the teams know their players are taking drugs.

" 'Big bucks are at stake but that's not all. The American mentality is that they have to win. That's why they invent games which basically only they play, then they can declare themselves the world champions.' "

______

- Just for once appreciate cycling in the US for what it is... it doesn't have to be the best.

Quoted post said:

The American mentality is that they have to win. That's why they invent games which basically only they play, then they can declare themselves the world champions.

Not sure that's quite right. The US would dominate most other sports (rugby, as an example) if it could be bothered, dope or not. It has a population of 300 million who are by almost any standards well-resourced and well-fed, with terrific infrastructure (with some exceptions: velodromes, for example).

Cycling is not widely popular, it still seems to be the domain of the rich, and yet they do okay.

With the possible exception of football, if the US actually turned its collective mind to the sports that interest other people, it would be right at the top.

coneofsilence said:

I am the master of deception....😄

D@mnit. How am I supposed to go on a decent anti yank rant if you're not american?

/watches the wind get taken out of his sails...

thunder said:

disagree, Navigators almost won Gent Wevelgem, which is in the top 10 one day races in Europe. Vogels was unlucky to lose to Klier, and he used his entire team to provide top notch support.

Barloworld, Konica, HSBC have never won jack [censored].

Barloworld only became competitive when Corti won the internal battle and transformed it into an Italian team and doped up a storm. Where are the guys like Tiaan Kannemeyer, and George?

Tiaan is riding for a local domestic team - now Konika-Minolta and David George is riding for MTN-Energade - also a domestic team.

I'm impressed! You managed to involve a South African flavoured team in your druggy conspiracy theory. Nicely done. It's got diddly squat to do with the quality of the US domestic racing circuit but nicely done anyway...

Is the drug line the only one you've got?

Eldron said:

Tiaan is riding for a local domestic team - now Konika-Minolta and David George is riding for MTN-Energade - also a domestic team.

I'm impressed! You managed to involve a South African flavoured team in your druggy conspiracy theory. Nicely done. It's got diddly squat to do with the quality of the US domestic racing circuit but nicely done anyway...

Is the drug line the only one you've got?

got a few lines of coke, but no freebies for stupid saffas

whiteboytrash said:

" 'Big bucks are at stake but that's not all. The American mentality is that they have to win. That's why they invent games which basically only they play, then they can declare themselves the world champions.' "

______

- Just for once appreciate cycling in the US for what it is... it doesn't have to be the best.

Ah ha ha....who's the egotist? The person who thinks everything WE do is about THEM??? 🙄

whiteboytrash said:

Johnson added: 'The Americans are ignorant. The dads spend a thousand dollars a game on seats and food to take their kids to see games played and history made but the owners of the teams know their players are taking drugs.

" 'Big bucks are at stake but that's not all. The American mentality is that they have to win. That's why they invent games which basically only they play, then they can declare themselves the world champions.' "

He has a chip on his shoulder because he's from Canada. ;-)

hawkeye87 said:

He has a chip on his shoulder because he's from Canada. ;-)

Jamaica. Immigrated to Canada. Wants to marry Marion Jones. True.

Have a read of this: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/othersports/article-1023170/EXCLUSIVE-Ben-Johnson-reviled-drugs-cheat-history-claims-victim-American-conspiracy-Now-says-evidence-tape-Deluded-fantasist-whistleblower--decide.html

whiteboytrash said:

=
" 'Big bucks are at stake but that's not all. The American mentality is that they have to win. That's why they invent games which basically only they play, then they can declare themselves the world champions.' "

What sports have we "invented" that we now claim to be the best at? Of our "big sports," we can really only say we still dominate NBA basketball and NFL football. Major League baseball is slowly but surely being dominated by the Dominicans et al anymore. NHL hockey (which we didn't even "invent" but have most of the teams in the pro league, but really share with Canada), is dominated by Canadians and Europeans. At the rate it's going the Euros are going to completely take it over and it will be the NHL in the US and Canada, but without very many Americans or Canadians.

The Detroit Redwings have dominated hockey in the last decade and they've done so by acquiring more and more Europeans. Europeans make up over half their team: mlive.comeuropeandominated red wings on.htmlOpen ↗

Skilled athletes from other countries have picked up on the fact that they can come here and earn a killing doing what they do best.

thunder said:

got a few lines of coke, but no freebies for stupid saffas

That's quite a confession. A key ingredient for your pot belge huh?

Oh the irony...