Wright Bros re-enact flight fails

I Just saw a clip of the attempted flight on the Discovery Channel. Saw the right wing go low and
hit a puddle before it even got up off the ground.

The whole wright brothers thing is an amazing story really, and there was a GREAT special on Nova
about a month ago. It was about a team of people recreating one of the Wright Brother's plane (not
the first one that they tried to fly today), but one that was actually mass produced at the time.
They spent years on making it, and then crashed it during a test flight.

The Nova special went into a great deal about how they Wright's included all the control surfaces
because they figured it would be like riding a bicycle where adjustments have to be made all the
time, as apposed to driving a car (which is how a lot of other people at the time were designing
things to fly like).

Mike mikebeauchamp.commikebeauchamp.comOpen ↗

"Tom Nakashima" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

As I was driving back to work from lunch today, KDFC classical station asked, "What did the Wright
Brothers do before they built a airplane?

cnn.comindex.htmlOpen ↗

-tom

Quoted post said:

Originally posted by Tom Nakashima
As I was driving back to work from lunch today, KDFC classical station asked, "What did the Wright
Brothers do before they built a airplane?

cnn.comindex.htmlOpen ↗

-tom

The Wright Brothers were former bike machanics. The whole ingenuity behind the design was that they thought of the system as a part of dynamic parts like a bicycle with its constantly shifting gears. Most people trying to build flying machines came from automobile backgrounds and actually overdeveloped their planes.

The 1903 Wright Flyer just took-off with a device that Wright brothers called "pylon launcher",
i.e., a kind of catapult... Just one person has testimonied the fact...

The first flight with a self powered airplane by its own means, i.e., without a catapult aid, was
made in 1906 in Paris by Alberto Santos Dumont, with the testimonial of about two hundred people.

The failed attempt of yesterday, has proven that the first Wright's flight was a fake...

[]'s Eduardo

"Mike Beauchamp" <[email hidden]> escreveu na mensagem
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I Just saw a clip of the attempted flight on the Discovery Channel. Saw

the

Quoted message said:

right wing go low and hit a puddle before it even got up off the ground.

The whole wright brothers thing is an amazing story really, and there was

a

Quoted message said:

GREAT special on Nova about a month ago. It was about a team of people recreating one of the
Wright Brother's plane (not the first one that they tried to fly today), but one that was
actually mass produced at the time. They spent years on making it, and then crashed it during a
test flight.

The Nova special went into a great deal about how they Wright's included

all

Quoted message said:

the control surfaces because they figured it would be like riding a

bicycle

Quoted message said:

where adjustments have to be made all the time, as apposed to driving a

car

Quoted message said:

(which is how a lot of other people at the time were designing things to

fly

Quoted message said:

like).

Mike mikebeauchamp.commikebeauchamp.comOpen ↗

"Tom Nakashima" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

As I was driving back to work from lunch today, KDFC classical station asked, "What did the
Wright Brothers do before they built a airplane?

cnn.comindex.htmlOpen ↗

-tom

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Quoted post said:

Originally posted by Eduardo L P Jr
The 1903 Wright Flyer just took-off with a device that Wright brothers called "pylon launcher",
i.e., a kind of catapult... Just one person has testimonied the fact...

The first flight with a self powered airplane by its own means, i.e., without a catapult aid, was
made in 1906 in Paris by Alberto Santos Dumont, with the testimonial of about two hundred people.

The failed attempt of yesterday, has proven that the first Wright's flight was a fake...

[]'s Eduardo

I think Eduardo is on to something here. Don't know if it is true or not, but like a lot of historical facts, historians have often argued about the legitimacy of the Wright Brother's claim to the first self-powered airplance. Dumont of Paris may actually deserve the title instead.

Quoted message said:

The 1903 Wright Flyer just took-off with a device that Wright brothers called "pylon launcher",
i.e., a kind of catapult... Just one person has testimonied the fact...

The first flight with a self powered airplane by its own means, i.e., without a catapult aid, was
made in 1906 in Paris by Alberto Santos Dumont, with the testimonial of about two hundred people.

I seem to remmember a german called Weisskopf (later called himself whitehead) who flew in 1901 (?)
But the plane only flew straight and was not able to turn? From a hillside? Besides who cares who
was first. Most inventions are based upon fieldwork done long before by men history has forgotten.
It is just easier to give all the credit to one inventor.

Does anyone know much about the history of the Wright Bros. Bicycle Co.? -tom

"gvw" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:iKiEb.9748$Gq4.88221@zonnet-reader-1...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

The 1903 Wright Flyer just took-off with a device that Wright brothers called "pylon launcher",
i.e., a kind of catapult... Just one person has testimonied the fact...

The first flight with a self powered airplane by its own means, i.e., without a catapult aid,
was made in 1906 in Paris by Alberto Santos

Dumont,

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

with the testimonial of about two hundred people.

I seem to remmember a german called Weisskopf (later called himself whitehead) who flew in 1901
(?) But the plane only flew straight and was not able to turn? From a

hillside?

Quoted message said:

Besides who cares who was first. Most inventions are based upon fieldwork done long before by men
history has forgotten. It is just easier to give all the credit to one inventor.

"gvw" <[email hidden]> escreveu na mensagem
news:iKiEb.9748$Gq4.88221@zonnet-reader-1...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

The 1903 Wright Flyer just took-off with a device that Wright brothers called "pylon launcher",
i.e., a kind of catapult... Just one person has testimonied the fact...

The first flight with a self powered airplane by its own means, i.e., without a catapult aid,
was made in 1906 in Paris by Alberto Santos

Dumont,

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

with the testimonial of about two hundred people.

I seem to remmember a german called Weisskopf (later called himself whitehead) who flew in 1901
(?) But the plane only flew straight and was not able to turn? From a

hillside?

Quoted message said:

Besides who cares who was first. Most inventions are based upon fieldwork done long before by men
history has forgotten. It is just easier to give all the credit to one inventor.

Santos Dumont flew in October 23rd, 1906 in the "Champ de Bagatelle" in Paris. That flight is
considered as the first self-powered flight without auxiliar device aid (like a catapult). Santos
Dumont don't reivindicate all the credit. His flight was testimonied by a large crowd (about two
hundred people). Santos Dumont was a aeronautic scientist. He has made several experiences with gas
dirigible balloons, like a flight in 1901 which he took off from the Saint-Cloud field, turns around
the Eiffel Tower and returns in 30 minutes. By this flight, Santos Dumont has win the "Deutsch de La
Meurthe" prize (100 thousand french francs).

I believe that Wright Brothers has made the first flight, but the flight was not testimonied and a
catapult was needed.

[]'s Eduardo

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Mike Beauchamp said:

The Nova special went into a great deal about how they Wright's included all the control surfaces
because they figured it would be like riding a bicycle where adjustments have to be made all the
time, as apposed to driving a car (which is how a lot of other people at the time were designing
things to fly like).

Yes, others were trying to build a stable flyer. But the Wright's flyer, like a bicycle, was
unstable but controllable. Their knowledge of bicycles probably gave them the insight that an
unstable plane could be controlled.
--
terry morse Palo Alto, CA terrymorse.combikeOpen ↗

Eduardo L P Jr said:

Santos Dumont flew in October 23rd, 1906 in the "Champ de Bagatelle" in Paris. That flight is
considered as the first self-powered flight without auxiliar device aid (like a catapult). Santos
Dumont don't reivindicate all the credit. His flight was testimonied by a large crowd (about two
hundred people).

A year before Dumont's 1906 flight, the Wright brothers had perfected their flying machine, piloting
it 24 1/2 miles at Huffman Prairie in October 1905. The only people who believe Dumont's flight was
anything significant are Brazilian nationals, since Dumont was from Brazil. Historians are not
impressed.
--
terry morse Palo Alto, CA terrymorse.combikeOpen ↗

Eduardo L P Jr said:

I believe that Wright Brothers has made the first flight, but the flight was not testimonied and a
catapult was needed.

... and don't forget that the film from the "moon landing" was shot on a sound stage somewhere
in LA... heh

The difference between yesterday's attempt and the one 100 years ago was a 20+ mph (35km/h) headwind
that the first attempt had, effectively lengthening the "runway".

Oh, and how do you "testimony" a flight? Having witnesses and a photograph seems to be a pretty good
start to me.

Mark Hickey Habanero Cycles habcycles.comhabcycles.comOpen ↗ Home of the $695 ti frame

The "launcher" was used when they were flying the "Flyer II" back in Dayton The original Flyer which
was destroyed shortly after the first 4 flights when a gust of wind caught it and sent it tumbling.
Santos-Dumont made a couple of hops in 1906. The Wrights were doing flights of 5+ minutes in 1904.
So even if the 1903 flight was a fluke, which it wasn't, they still beat everyone else into the air
by at least 2 years. Funny thing was, if they were not being the "first", they showed up all the
european aircraft on August 8th, 1908 with the "Flyer II". Taking off in winds that would've
grounded all the european craft at the time, and then easily flying around like it was nothing. Santos-
Dumont and the rest were blown away by the performance of the Wright flyer. The thing that was
missing yesterday was a 20+mph headwind. If that was there, they would've been airborne.

Eduardo L P Jr said:

The 1903 Wright Flyer just took-off with a device that Wright brothers called "pylon launcher",
i.e., a kind of catapult... Just one person has testimonied the fact...

The first flight with a self powered airplane by its own means, i.e., without a catapult aid, was
made in 1906 in Paris by Alberto Santos Dumont, with the testimonial of about two hundred people.

The failed attempt of yesterday, has proven that the first Wright's flight was a fake...

[]'s Eduardo

"Mike Beauchamp" <[email hidden]> escreveu na mensagem
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I Just saw a clip of the attempted flight on the Discovery Channel. Saw

the

Quoted message said:

right wing go low and hit a puddle before it even got up off the ground.

The whole wright brothers thing is an amazing story really, and there was

a

Quoted message said:

GREAT special on Nova about a month ago. It was about a team of people recreating one of the
Wright Brother's plane (not the first one that they tried to fly today), but one that was
actually mass produced at the time. They spent years on making it, and then crashed it during a
test flight.

The Nova special went into a great deal about how they Wright's included

all

Quoted message said:

the control surfaces because they figured it would be like riding a

bicycle

Quoted message said:

where adjustments have to be made all the time, as apposed to driving a

car

Quoted message said:

(which is how a lot of other people at the time were designing things to

fly

Quoted message said:

like).

Mike mikebeauchamp.commikebeauchamp.comOpen ↗

"Tom Nakashima" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

As I was driving back to work from lunch today, KDFC classical station asked, "What did the
Wright Brothers do before they built a airplane?

cnn.comindex.htmlOpen ↗

-tom

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8C71 IBM: It may be slow, but it's hard to use.

I'm with Eduardo on this one. The accomplishment by both the Wright Bros. and Dumont are equally impressive. However, looks like Dumont's air attempt was the first that was truly "unassisted" as far as having or not having a catapult. And there are photos, journalists, and hundreds of people that witnessed Dumont's attempt. Not to take anything away from the Wright Bros claim, but if nobody witnessed it, how do we know that it really happened? The documentary by Discovery Channel which shows the failed attempt using the same technology really puts questions to the Wright Bros claim that they were truly the first.

"Terry Morse" <[email hidden]> escreveu na mensagem
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Eduardo L P Jr wrote:

A year before Dumont's 1906 flight, the Wright brothers had perfected their flying machine,
piloting it 24 1/2 miles at Huffman Prairie in October 1905. The only people who believe Dumont's
flight was anything significant are Brazilian nationals, since Dumont was from Brazil. Historians
are not impressed.
--
terry morse Palo Alto, CA terrymorse.combikeOpen ↗

The brazilian people aren't the only one... The french people believe it too, because at the first
decade of the twentieth century, Paris was the world centre of science and technology. The
testimonial wasn't made by a single person. The first flight was testimonied by the "Aeroclub de
France", by several newspapermen and by a crowd of aproximatedly two hundred people. To be
considered as a complete flight by the "Aeroclub de France" the flight must be leveled, at least 2 m
from the ground and at least 50 m of distance.

There are a stone monument at the "Champ de Bagatelle" with the following words:

"HERE, NOVEMBER 12 TH, 1906, UNDER CONTROL OF AERO-CLUB DE FRANCE, SANTOS DUMONT ESTABLISHED THE
FIRST AVIATION RECORD OF THE WORLD DURATION: 21 SECS 1/5 DISTANCE 220 METERS"

You may see that everybody of the "Aeroclub de France" has said "the first aviation record", not
"the first flight".

All the best

Eduardo

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Mark Hickey said:

Eduardo L P Jr said:

I believe that Wright Brothers has made the first flight, but the flight was not testimonied and
a catapult was needed.

... and don't forget that the film from the "moon landing" was shot on a sound stage somewhere in
LA... heh

I once met a guy in a bar in LA, who promised to show me where that was... he was the only one still
living who knew...

Better watch what you say about that, though -- or Buzz Aldrin will punch you in the nose!

Quoted message said:

The difference between yesterday's attempt and the one 100 years ago was a 20+ mph (35km/h)
headwind that the first attempt had, effectively lengthening the "runway".

That's what I thought. It was so undignified to land in a mud puddle like that, though.

Quoted message said:

Oh, and how do you "testimony" a flight? Having witnesses and a photograph seems to be a pretty
good start to me.

A notary public? Justice of the peace? Digital camera with timestamp? Oh, wait...

Matt O.

"Eduardo L P Jr" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

"gvw" <[email hidden]> escreveu na mensagem news:iKiEb.9748$Gq4.88221@zonnet-reader-1...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

The 1903 Wright Flyer just took-off with a device that Wright brothers called "pylon
launcher", i.e., a kind of catapult... Just one person has testimonied the fact...

The first flight with a self powered airplane by its own means, i.e., without a catapult aid,
was made in 1906 in Paris by Alberto Santos

Dumont,

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

with the testimonial of about two hundred people.

I seem to remmember a german called Weisskopf (later called himself whitehead) who flew in 1901
(?) But the plane only flew straight and was not able to turn? From a

hillside?

Quoted message said:

Besides who cares who was first. Most inventions are based upon fieldwork done long before by
men history has forgotten. It is just easier to give all the credit to one inventor.

Santos Dumont flew in October 23rd, 1906 in the "Champ de Bagatelle" in Paris. That flight is
considered as the first self-powered flight without auxiliar device aid (like a catapult). Santos
Dumont don't reivindicate all the credit. His flight was testimonied by a large crowd (about two
hundred people). Santos Dumont was a aeronautic scientist. He has made several experiences with
gas dirigible balloons, like a flight in 1901 which he took off from the Saint-Cloud field, turns
around the Eiffel Tower and returns in 30 minutes. By this flight, Santos Dumont has win the
"Deutsch de La Meurthe" prize (100 thousand french francs).

I believe that Wright Brothers has made the first flight, but the flight was not testimonied and a
catapult was needed.

[]'s Eduardo

As I recall, the four flights made on December 17, 1903 were launched with the assistance of two
people (one at each wingtip) to start the airplane down its launching track. There was no catapult,
unless it was a human one. Of those two people, the one that wasn't a Wright took a photograph of
the first flight (12 seconds long). But you are correct that there was no crowd there to watch. I
believe that the 1903 airplane never flew again after that day.

The much-improved 1907 version was launched by a catapult, including at its performance in France
(Le Mans?) that was witnessed by a large and enthusiastic crowd.

Peter Storey

Quoted message said:

Santos Dumont flew in October 23rd, 1906 in the "Champ de Bagatelle" in Paris. That flight is
considered as the first self-powered flight without auxiliar device aid (like a catapult

I don't understand your point. The Wright Brother's accomplished a controlled heavier than air
flight. Navy jets use a catapult to this very day when launched off of a carrier. Does that mean
that what they do doesn't count as flight or that they don't qualify as airplanes ?

"Matt Cahill" <[email hidden]> escreveu na mensagem
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I don't understand your point. The Wright Brother's accomplished a controlled heavier than air
flight. Navy jets use a catapult to this very day when launched off of a carrier. Does that mean
that what they do doesn't count as flight or that they don't qualify as airplanes ?

It's not so hard to understand, if you think as a Paris citizen from 1906. At that time, there were
no supersonic jets taking off or landing over carrier ships. At that time, Paris was the
science+technology centre of the world and aircraft experimentations had a methodology created by
the "Aeroclub de France". This methodology don't recognize as a well succeeded flight an aircraft
throwed away by a catapult. The "Aeroclub de France" has created a numerical order to the "brevets"
(the airplane driver license). The #001 brevet, was gave to Alberto Santos Dumont.

The french scientific comunity of the first decade of the 20th century don't take seriously an
experiment realised on the other side of the sea...

I believe that the Wright Brothers have succeeded in their flight in 1903, but a scientific
experiment NEEDS to be scientifically recorded, or it may be unaccepted by the scientific comunity.

All the best

Eduardo
--

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"Eduardo L P Jr" wrote <The French scientific community of the first decade of <the 20th century
don't take seriously an experiment <realised on the other side of the sea...

No wonder the French lagged behind in electronics in the first half of the 20th century. They
probably didn't believe that De Forrest invented the first triode vacuum tube.

Rod Raisanen Chillicothe, Oh

To reply remove garbage

Eduardo L P Jr said:

The french scientific comunity of the first decade of the 20th century don't take seriously an
experiment realised on the other side of the sea...

:-) The French often "don't take seriously" anything originating
outside France!

Quoted message said:

I believe that the Wright Brothers have succeeded in their flight in 1903, but a scientific
experiment NEEDS to be scientifically recorded, or it may be unaccepted by the scientific
comunity.

It's safe to say that the scientific community has accepted the Wrights' work without reservation.

And, BTW, they did a lot more than simply get a plane to fly. They did more to advance understanding
of the fundamental principles of flight than any of their contemporaries. It was an excellent job of
engineering.

--
Frank Krygowski [To reply, omit what's between "at" and "cc"]