sharing the trails

I'm a jogger. I jog on multiuse trails. Why is it so hard for rollerbladers to warn me when passing?
You don't own the trail!

I'm a walker. I walk on multiuse trails. Why is it so hard for joggers to warn me when passing?
You don't own the trail!

Quoted post said:

Originally Posted by 8 wheeler [IMG]/img/forum/go_quote.gif[/IMG]

.... How do you like being passed by autos with 12 inches to spare?...

Not a lot, but it happens daily. If cyclists are buzzing you with so little room to spare you've got a legitimate gripe as the onus is always on the passing vehicle to do so safely. But the 'on your left' thing really does get old after passing scores of pedestrians, runners, slow cyclists, you name it and these days a large percentage of them are wearing earphones, talking on cell phones or engaged in conversations and seem just as startled when I call out as when I don't. I suppose I could carry an air horn or shout at the top of my lungs to pierce their iPods but I'm guessing just as many would find that offensive and startling and would be analogous to the motorist that feels obliged to lean on their horn as they pass us on the roads, not exactly cooperative behavior either.

Passing safely is one thing, the trail etiquette thing is another. I'll always call out and slow for folks spanning more than half the trail including inline skaters that take up a wide swath with their strides or riders riding two abreast or a couple of moms pushing baby carriages side by side but when I come up on a user keeping to the right and wearing headphones I save my breath and just make sure I pass where there's clear visibility ahead and I can give them a wide berth. That's far more than many motorists do for us when training out on the roads.

FWIW, I'm with you on the reasonable speed thing. Most trails around here have a 15 mph speed limit, sure folks push that a bit just as they do while driving, but serious training at race speeds really isn't appropriate on popular shared use trails. Trails are a great way to get to better training venues and pretty useful for commuting especially when the weather sucks and bumping elbows with cars gets even more hazardous but the folks lying down in their aero bars on their Cervelos rolling at TT speeds while weaving around pedestrians are taking risks with other folk's safety and generally oblivious to their own responsibility in the event anything goes wrong.

-Dave

Quoted post said:

Originally Posted by daveryanwyoming [IMG]/img/forum/go_quote.gif[/IMG]

Not a lot, but it happens daily. If cyclists are buzzing you with so little room to spare you've got a legitimate gripe as the onus is always on the passing vehicle to do so safely. But the 'on your left' thing really does get old after passing scores of pedestrians, runners, slow cyclists, you name it and these days a large percentage of them are wearing earphones, talking on cell phones or engaged in conversations and seem just as startled when I call out as when I don't. I suppose I could carry an air horn or shout at the top of my lungs to pierce their iPods but I'm guessing just as many would find that offensive and startling and would be analogous to the motorist that feels obliged to lean on their horn as they pass us on the roads, not exactly cooperative behavior either.

Passing safely is one thing, the trail etiquette thing is another. I'll always call out and slow for folks spanning more than half the trail including inline skaters that take up a wide swath with their strides or riders riding two abreast or a couple of moms pushing baby carriages side by side but when I come up on a user keeping to the right and wearing headphones I save my breath and just make sure I pass where there's clear visibility ahead and I can give them a wide berth. That's far more than many motorists do for us when training out on the roads.

FWIW, I'm with you on the reasonable speed thing. Most trails around here have a 15 mph speed limit, sure folks push that a bit just as they do while driving, but serious training at race speeds really isn't appropriate on popular shared use trails. Trails are a great way to get to better training venues and pretty useful for commuting especially when the weather sucks and bumping elbows with cars gets even more hazardous but the folks lying down in their aero bars on their Cervelos rolling at TT speeds while weaving around pedestrians are taking risks with other folk's safety and generally oblivious to their own responsibility in the event anything goes wrong.

-Dave

+1 to everything Dave said. I use MUPs often for commuting or easy rides as a change of scenery from the roads. And I'm just like Dave in terms of calling out 'on your left' to most, but not all, users. One thing I have noticed, however, is that lot's of pedestrians will take a step to the left while looking over their left shoulder in response to my indicating my intention to pass. After this happens a few times, I start to feel like it's safer not to say anything!

Cyclists use the road and expect to be passed by cars, without drivers having to shout (or honk horns), and when drivers do honk, I am usually startled. Slower users of the MUPs, and this includes slower cyclists, should expect to be passed by those going faster and should try to stay to the right to the extent reasonable, and look back before turning left or making a U-turn.

Quoted post said:

Originally Posted by daveryanwyoming [IMG]/img/forum/go_quote.gif[/IMG]

Not a lot, but it happens daily. If cyclists are buzzing you with so little room to spare you've got a legitimate gripe as the onus is always on the passing vehicle to do so safely. But the 'on your left' thing really does get old after passing scores of pedestrians, runners, slow cyclists, you name it and these days a large percentage of them are wearing earphones, talking on cell phones or engaged in conversations and seem just as startled when I call out as when I don't. I suppose I could carry an air horn or shout at the top of my lungs to pierce their iPods but I'm guessing just as many would find that offensive and startling and would be analogous to the motorist that feels obliged to lean on their horn as they pass us on the roads, not exactly cooperative behavior either.

Passing safely is one thing, the trail etiquette thing is another. I'll always call out and slow for folks spanning more than half the trail including inline skaters that take up a wide swath with their strides or riders riding two abreast or a couple of moms pushing baby carriages side by side but when I come up on a user keeping to the right and wearing headphones I save my breath and just make sure I pass where there's clear visibility ahead and I can give them a wide berth. That's far more than many motorists do for us when training out on the roads.

FWIW, I'm with you on the reasonable speed thing. Most trails around here have a 15 mph speed limit, sure folks push that a bit just as they do while driving, but serious training at race speeds really isn't appropriate on popular shared use trails. Trails are a great way to get to better training venues and pretty useful for commuting especially when the weather sucks and bumping elbows with cars gets even more hazardous but the folks lying down in their aero bars on their Cervelos rolling at TT speeds while weaving around pedestrians are taking risks with other folk's safety and generally oblivious to their own responsibility in the event anything goes wrong.

-Dave

Quoted post said:

Originally Posted by CalicoCat [IMG]/img/forum/go_quote.gif[/IMG]

+1 to everything Dave said. I use MUPs often for commuting or easy rides as a change of scenery from the roads. And I'm just like Dave in terms of calling out 'on your left' to most, but not all, users. One thing I have noticed, however, is that lot's of pedestrians will take a step to the left while looking over their left shoulder in response to my indicating my intention to pass. After this happens a few times, I start to feel like it's safer not to say anything!

Cyclists use the road and expect to be passed by cars, without drivers having to shout (or honk horns), and when drivers do honk, I am usually startled. Slower users of the MUPs, and this includes slower cyclists, should expect to be passed by those going faster and should try to stay to the right to the extent reasonable, and look back before turning left or making a U-turn.

+2 on Dave and Calico's comments.

And if two people are walking/jogging/running/rollerblading together 9 times out of 10 when you tell them "bike on your left" (and they actually hear you [IMG]/img/vbsmilies/smilies/biggrin.gif[/IMG] ) the person on the left will move to the left right in front of you.

I always say "your other left" as I thread my way through them.

It's not a perfect world for any of us.

Quoted post said:

Originally Posted by 64Paramount [IMG]/img/forum/go_quote.gif[/IMG]

It's not a perfect world for any of us.

That is why I added my two posts. Like Dave mentioned inline skaters seem to take up more trail space than anyone except for that crazy contraption sold on infomercials and looks like a giant tricycle where the user stands up and moves it by swinging heavily left and right.

My experience on a MUP from the cycling viewpoint is the same as the rest. I use one a lot. If you see "Comet" on my blog I am training on a very popular MUP here in the Atlanta area with all sorts of chaos.

I find it to be true that many times I have called, "on your left" the person has freaked out like a squirrel dodging a car and bolted right in front of me when they were fine where they were. I have come to the point of just not saying anything because it seems to cause less panic. Most now days are wearing ear buds so like Dave mentioned you get tired of yelling a warning from way back only to find out they can't hear you.

Once most of the serious cyclists get out in the remote areas the speed will be from 20 to 30 mph so I am glad we do not have a speed limit yet. I have even had bike patrols cheer me on and wave me through an intersections so at least the cops have not found my behavior outrageous.

Our trails here have a uniform 20 MPH speed limit but it is difficult to attain that speed for all of the slower cyclists, parents teaching their three year olds to ride a bicycle, walkers, rollerbladers, skate boarders, horse apples, etc. The trails are crowded on the weekends and weekday evenings. They also get a fair amount of use on weekdays from night shift workers and retirees. If you want to train around here, you have to go to the road. As for rollerbladers, they do strike a chord with me. More often than not I have come upon one who is swinging the arms and legs nearly the entire width of the trail and listening to music. They can't hear you because of the music blaring and you can't pass unless you want to get hit.

What I want to know is why is it so hard for the horseback riders to stay off of the blacktop? I guess the horseback riders are staying closer to home because of the gas prices. Horses are expensive to haul around. Anyway, the last three times that I was on one of our MUPs, I encountered fairly fresh horse apples right in the middle of the pavement. If you don't or can't dodge them, at best you end up with a stripe of horse manure up the back of your shirt. Since horse apples are slick as ice when they are fresh, at worst you can crash.

Fast bicycling should be reserved for public roads, and areas of multi-use trails where there is no other traffic.

I bicycle on multi-use paths. I slow to a bit over walking (running or skateboarding) pace as I approach walkers (runners or skateboarders). The I say "hello". And then I pass. Everyone seems happy.

Multi-use paths are not intended for high speed bicycling.

Skating should be reserved for the roller rink.

I gave up on the EastBay Bike path years ago. For all the reason mentioned above its a lot safer for me and others that I ride on the roads.

As far as the horse apples go nothing irritates me more than riding over someones dogs [censored] out on the wooded trails. Why cant people pick up after themselves? I always end up bringing some home with me on my tires.[IMG]/img/vbsmilies/smilies/nonono2.gif[/IMG]