Wheels/Rims...

For about that price range there is the IRD Niobium Cadence wheels that have been reviewed to be very strong wheels. ebay.com230499189987Open ↗ That guy can build using Sapim CX Ray spokes if you want the ultimate spoke package, or any other spec.

There is also this place that can make the same wheel plus others to your specs: prowheelbuilder.comird niobium cadence aero black rim.htmlOpen ↗

Anyway just one of many thoughts you're going to get.

I'm slowly getting it nailed down. Right now, looks like I'm going to go with handbuilds. Alchemy hubs, CXRay spokes. Rims are still up in the air. Might be going carbon fiber.... With 38mm rims, they'll go 1367grams. However, there is a 20mm CF rim available too....

JoelS said:

I'm slowly getting it nailed down. Right now, looks like I'm going to go with handbuilds. Alchemy hubs, CXRay spokes. Rims are still up in the air. Might be going carbon fiber.... With 38mm rims, they'll go 1367grams. However, there is a 20mm CF rim available too....

The CX-Rays and the Alchemy hubs are excellent choices. What is your budget for the wheels? Which 20mm CF rim are you looking at? Which 38mm rims? Frankly, I can't see needing a 20mm CF rim for anything. I don't see one having many benefits at all. Certainly such a rim will be lighter than a taller rim from the same manufacturer but unless it's built up with enough spokes, it will likely be a laterally limp wheel. It's lightweight is really useless unless the majority of riding is up mountains, and on descents such wheel could become a liability. Frankly, I'd pick a 40-50ish mm CF aero rim any day over a 20mm rim. The aero benefits are much more significant and even dominate when climbing up to grades of 8% or so. Right now Enve 45's a are a relatively economical choice (uhm, for a top quality CF aero rim) and excellent rims. Likewise you could choose something like Zipp 404 Firecrests. I don't see any real reason to consider the 303 Firecrest: it's less aero; it's the same price as the 404 Firecrest; and the weight difference is very small. In alloy rims Kinlin are a good choice (XR-270's and XR-300's, respectively 27mm and 30mm tall). I'm not sure if Kinlin is building a wide rim. Wide rims are also a consideration: Velocity A23's (25mm tall, 23mm wide) or Hed's Belgium C2 (24mm tall, 23mm wide). Right now I have on my front a Kinlin XR-270 laced with CX-Rays to a White Industries H2 hub. On the back I've got a Velocity A23 laced to a White Industries H3 hub with DT Swiss Aerolite spokes. There is a noticeable difference in the ride character between the A23 and the Kinlin XR-270 it replaced. The ride is definitely more compliant as I can run lower pressure in the back with the wider rim. My Michelin Pro3 25mm clinchers measure 26mm wide on the front Kinlin (19mm wide) and a little bit over 27mm wide on the A23. Measurements were done with calipers. Soon I'll be replacing the Kinlin on the front with an A23. I've never pedaled on Enve rims, but I've handled them in my LBS and seen them as their being built. They build up in a very builder-friendly way, and they are beautifully finished and very robust rims. Enve is unique in that their spoke holes are molded in, not drilled. The same goes for the valve stem hole. Comparing them to CF rims I've owned (Reynolds DV46 tubulars, Lew VT-1 tubulars, and Nine G 50mm tubulars), the finish/visual quality is much bettter.

I've got these hubs (alchemy) and spokes (radial 20 up front, x2 24 in back - I weigh in at 150lbs) laced up to the Kinlin 270 rim on my current bike. Very fast wheels comparatively. Still working on rims. 38's are probably going to be perfect for me, and the wheelset specs in at ~1367 grams. That's over 120 grams lighter than my current wheels, which should be noticeable when climbing, and the deeper rims will be faster everywhere else. All in all, I'm liking it.

To be honest, I don't know exactly what brand the rims are, as the wheelbuilder is getting them from the source directly. Made in Taiwan his tells me.

Quoted post said:

Originally Posted by JoelS [IMG]/img/forum/go_quote.gif[/IMG]

Long story short... Coming into some money. Getting a new bike. Very likely to be a full custom Guru Photon, dressed up with Campy Record.

I'm trying to figure out wheels now. HED Ardennes CF are on the list. As are Easton EA90 SLX. Also considering handbuilt.

Anyone got a favorite lightweight clincher wheel that you'd recommend? For all round riding and LOTS of climbing.

Hi JoelS, the HED Ardennes are very nice wheels. I use the Prolite Bracciano Wheelset ... http://www.pro-liteoz.com/store/index.php?act=viewProd&productId=19 ... which are equivalent the EA90's SL's and Fulcrum Zero's.

You can get wheels made by williamscycling.com, psimet.com, Wheelbuilder.com, Fair Wheel Bikes, and Ergott Wheels. Some of these will do custom builds even with Enve rims :-)

Quoted post said:

Originally Posted by JoelS [IMG]/img/forum/go_quote.gif[/IMG]

I've got these hubs (alchemy) and spokes (radial 20 up front, x2 24 in back - I weigh in at 150lbs) laced up to the Kinlin 270 rim on my current bike. Very fast wheels comparatively. Still working on rims. 38's are probably going to be perfect for me, and the wheelset specs in at ~1367 grams. That's over 120 grams lighter than my current wheels, which should be noticeable when climbing, and the deeper rims will be faster everywhere else. All in all, I'm liking it.

To be honest, I don't know exactly what brand the rims are, as the wheelbuilder is getting them from the source directly. Made in Taiwan his tells me.

Hi JoelS, just read this post ... enjoy your wheel building exercise. Let us know how it all goes ... thanks :-)

BTW, alchemy are very nice light hubs and Kinlin rims are very nice, too :-)

As for 120gms, re climbing faster and being faster everywhere (if nothing else changes), that really depends on you, the engine in the equation.
Let us know how it all goes and how the wheel building goes. Isn't it nice to have choices :-)

JoelS said:

I've got these hubs (alchemy) and spokes (radial 20 up front, x2 24 in back - I weigh in at 150lbs) laced up to the Kinlin 270 rim on my current bike. Very fast wheels comparatively. Still working on rims. 38's are probably going to be perfect for me, and the wheelset specs in at ~1367 grams. That's over 120 grams lighter than my current wheels, which should be noticeable when climbing, and the deeper rims will be faster everywhere else. All in all, I'm liking it.

To be honest, I don't know exactly what brand the rims are, as the wheelbuilder is getting them from the source directly. Made in Taiwan his tells me.

What wheels do you currently have? Going custom built with wheels, as you seem to be doing, is the way to go....at least it is in my eyes. You get pretty much exactly what you want without the compromises and weak points of some boutique wheels, for instance Easton's wheels. It seems a number of Easton wheels get mixed-bag reviews from customers. One common complaint is that preload in their R4 hubs goes slack periodically. Also, the R4 hubs were designed to be a bit more aero by reducing their exposure to air flow. Easton accomplished that by using designing the hubs with a relatively short flange to flange distance. The down side of that is that short flange to flange distances decrease the spoke bracing angle and thus decrease lateral rigidity of the wheels in question. Jeremy Parfitt (designer and manufacturer of Alchemy Wheels) maximized the flange to flange distance on his ALF and ORC wheels to specifically maximize the bracing angle and thus lateral rigidity. IMHO, his hub designs are some of the best--some would argue they are the best--out there: they're robust; they have healthy sized bearings; they can be disassembled easily with simple tools; they have angled flanges.....When I replace the rim on my front wheel, I'm thinking of replacing the front hub with Alchemy's ELF. Whether or not and how much you notice the weight difference is really going to depend on the differences in moment of inertia between your new wheels and your current set.

I would think twice about CF wheels, unless you're racing I wouldn't bother due to impracticability First off due to many new players in the CF wheel market coming out of Asia that testing is sometimes nonexistent. Second, is heat issue with braking during long descents (like those that live in mountain areas will experience) where rim temps can reach 300 degrees; aluminum rims will dissipate the heat far fast then CF that will hold the heat far longer, and with those high temps comes a good possibility of resin failure. Fourth, CF wheels will not stop as fast as AL wheels even with cool rim temps. Fifth, you have to make sure that you use ONLY the brake pads the CF wheel manufacture recommends, using any other pad and you will extend stopping distance, increase heat, and wear out the rim faster; and finally if a CF rim fails you're going to crash suddenly.

Froze said:

I would think twice about CF wheels, unless you're racing I wouldn't bother due to impracticability First off due to many new players in the CF wheel market coming out of Asia that testing is sometimes nonexistent. Second, is heat issue with braking during long descents (like those that live in mountain areas will experience) where rim temps can reach 300 degrees; aluminum rims will dissipate the heat far fast then CF that will hold the heat far longer, and with those high temps comes a good possibility of resin failure. Fourth, CF wheels will not stop as fast as AL wheels even with cool rim temps. Fifth, you have to make sure that you use ONLY the brake pads the CF wheel manufacture recommends, using any other pad and you will extend stopping distance, increase heat, and wear out the rim faster; and finally if a CF rim fails you're going to crash suddenly.

It's certainly worth considering carefully, but one has to remember that CF rim manufacturers have made huge strides in not only heat management but also in improving braking, especially two of the manufacturers I mentioned, Zipp and Enve. Both are using epoxies with glass transition temps that are far above epoxies used in the past. In fact Zipp claims their tests have showed that their CF clinchers used under extreme braking see the tire bead and/or inner tube fail before the brake track. Their clinchers can handle pressures that exceed what some inner tubes and tire beads can handle (300 - 400psi). Those are the same typical failures with alloy clinchers on big descents. Braking in the rain is slow for alloy rims and slower for CF rims, but it is an area wherein Zipp and Enve (and Reynolds, too) have made big progress. Whether it's acceptable or not depends on the rider. Given the state of CF technology and its application in wheels, every day use of the wheels is certainly justifiable. Some will think it's not, but then some folks also don't ride their bikes in the rain. You'll never please everyone. The CF wheels I mentioned--all tubulars--were used as everyday wheels, rain or shine, no matter I was whether riding flats or mountains, without issues. I see loads of CF wheels out on the road over the course of any given week. Wanting to go faster, no matter how small the increment, isn't a desire solely restricted to people racing. I know there are folks riding old bikes with old equipment, like perhaps an old Campy gruppo w/ Mafac brakes. I'm willing to bet that someone with modern brakes and CF rims can stop about as fast as someone on Mafac brakes with metal rims; yet we don't hear dire warnings issued to those Mafac users. To each their own, but when answering questions for people about new technologies, we at least ought to offer up to date info on these technologies. I can only imagine the horror in some old pilot's mind as he contemplates the potential use of a jet engine with CF compressor blades like those tested in an old lab of mine. Advancing technology is a horrible frightening thing, isn't it?

Quoted post said:

Originally Posted by JoelS [IMG]/img/forum/go_quote.gif[/IMG]

Long story short... Coming into some money.

Get a PowerTap hub. Mavic Open Pro rims.

Will not make you any faster but it will show what you are.

Some additional reading:
livestrong.com378699 the pros cons of composite bicycle wheelsOpen ↗
wheelbuilder.comfaq.phpOpen ↗
bikesandbeansnb.combikesandbeansnb.comOpen ↗ (about half way down the page)

Carbon rims, like carbon forks and carbon frames, often just spontaneously explode. Everyone should be really frighted by them. It's important not to consider the characteristics of a specific rim but instead to just consider the generalities.

Thanks for the suggestions folks. I'm slowly nailing it down. Once the bike is built (3 months or so from now), I'll make sure to post pictures.

None of the 3 sites I gave are generalities, in fact all three give pros and cons, just like there's pro and cons to anything. You read the sites and decide if the pros out weigh the cons for your particular needs, or vice a visa. Most people today buy stuff for their bikes so they can look like their somebody...that's as bad as buying something based on generalities, because their not buying what will work for their particular needs their buying for bragging rights or so they can fit in. All those web sites were written within the last year and their written by people who even use CF wheels and or sell them! so their not a bunch of negative writers writing about wheels exploding at will due to a preset timer the Chinese implanted. The sites are simply information to help someone with a decision one way or the other, or just for knowledge...nothing wrong with education, but there is something wrong with ignorance.

Quoted post said:

Originally Posted by Froze [IMG]/img/forum/go_quote.gif[/IMG]

None of the 3 sites I gave are generalities, in fact all three give pros and cons, just like there's pro and cons to anything. You read the sites and decide if the pros out weigh the cons for your particular needs, or vice a visa. Most people today buy stuff for their bikes so they can look like their somebody...that's as bad as buying something based on generalities, because their not buying what will work for their particular needs their buying for bragging rights or so they can fit in. All those web sites were written within the last year and their written by people who even use CF wheels and or sell them! so their not a bunch of negative writers writing about wheels exploding at will due to a preset timer the Chinese implanted. The sites are simply information to help someone with a decision one way or the other, or just for knowledge...nothing wrong with education, but there is something wrong with ignorance.

Those 3 sites are loaded with generalities. I've spent quite a bit of time over the last 2 weeks speaking with wheelbuilders over the phone. As a result I've learned quite a bit. Based on those conversations, I have no qualms going with CF rims and appropriate pads. They should provide 4-6 years or so of life before the braking surface is wore out and they need replacing (based on my mileage and a very honest look at how I ride), and it's possible they'll go longer than 6 years. I am not heavy on my brakes and tend to minimize use. Technical descents are generally hit pretty hard. The only time I'm heavy on my brakes is when there are poor sight lines and I don't know the corners. And even then, I'm not as heavy as the folks I ride with. I climb a lot and so weight is important, but some aero is important too in order to help minimize fatigue on long rides (as it warms, 85-110mi rides are common for me). Most of the roads I ride are in good shape.

Regarding the suggestion of a powertap, uh, no. I am considering a powermeter of some sort in the future, but I'm holding out for the offering from Brim Brothers. It goes in the cleat and so can be used with all my bikes without the need to switch wheels or cranks.

Quoted post said:

Originally Posted by JoelS [IMG]/img/forum/go_quote.gif[/IMG]

... I am considering a powermeter of some sort in the future, but I'm holding out for the offering from Brim Brothers. It goes in the cleat and so can be used with all my bikes without the need to switch wheels or cranks.

Hi JoelS, sounds interesting. Can you provide a link or some more details about the offering from Brim Brothers ... thanks :-)

Let us know what you finally decide on :-)

This is the link to Brim Brothers. Joel, I take it you're a Speedplay user. I think Brim Brothers' approach is certainly unique and am interested to see how it compares to the other pedal based power meters (Look and Garmin.....when the Garmin is released), as well as to other power meters. One thing that bugs me, though, is the external wire running from the sensor to the transmitting unit on top of the shoe. It just seems like that wire would be vulnerable to damage. Less bothersome and more of niggle is that the transmitter will only mount to shoes with velcro straps, leaving users with BOA systems in the cold. I'm no longer a Speedplay user, but Brim Brothers have intimated that if the first model is successful they'll likely expand to other makes. No matter the case, it's great to see a comparatively sudden increase in the number of power meter manufacturers.

Brim Brothers web site: brimbrothers.combrimbrothers.comOpen ↗

I'll probably get wheels from PSIMet. More details to come in a few months.

Quoted post said:

Originally Posted by alienator [IMG]/img/forum/go_quote.gif[/IMG]
Soon I'll be replacing the Kinlin on the front with an A23.

Alienator, what do you think of the complete A23 wheels? I'm seeing the Pro build for less than $600.

Also could you give a decent ref. to read up on wide rims. Will brakes need adjustment? Do tire manufacturers test the clinchers on wide rims?

I've been considering the Ksyrium Elites (couldn't actually google up their rim width!) - how do you reckon they compare to the A23s?