Started power training but confused about not reaching VO2Max/Anaeroob heart rate

Quoted post said:

Originally Posted by RapDaddyo [IMG]/img/forum/go_quote.gif[/IMG]

Or change the Garmin display to not display watts or average watts (or just put masking tape over the watts data on the Garmin display) and ride an effort based on HR only.

That's the ticket. Alex Simmons has a good example of the output in an earlier post.

Alex's example illustrates one effort on one day at a constant HR, which illustrates the persistent decline in watts throughout the duration of the effort. If you used this protocol for, say, 3x20s with 5min rest durations, I would expect to see a difference in AP for each effort. And, if you did the same workout on two different days, I would expect to see different APs for each effort within each workout and for the same effort on different days. So, AP for Day1_Effort1 will not be equal to AP for Day2_Effort1, and so on. And, if you throw in a difference in cadence for the different efforts, the differences will be larger. For purposes of cycling training, HR provides one important fact: you're alive.

Quoted post said:

Originally Posted by RapDaddyo [IMG]/img/forum/go_quote.gif[/IMG]

Alex's example illustrates one effort on one day at a constant HR, which illustrates the persistent decline in watts throughout the duration of the effort. If you used this protocol for, say, 3x20s with 5min rest durations, I would expect to see a difference in AP for each effort. And, if you did the same workout on two different days, I would expect to see different APs for each effort within each workout and for the same effort on different days. So, AP for Day1_Effort1 will not be equal to AP for Day2_Effort1, and so on. And, if you throw in a difference in cadence for the different efforts, the differences will be larger. For purposes of cycling training, HR provides one important fact: you're alive.

I don't doubt it - was just pointing out the shape of the curve. Would love to see the actual results of two different days and/or 2 efforts in one workout if anyone had the patience for it.

I'm gathering that HR is believed by many to be as effective a training tool as the number of geese in the sky overhead at any given point in time.

As useless as they may be for determining the intensity at run time of either short or long intervals, I'm still thinking HR is a good tool for validating the consistency, after the fact, of efforts during a short interval workout based on RPE.

In the below with the exception of the first one or two, the remaining efforts according to HR are almost identical, and it's not because the rider is hitting his max each time. Had the rider diverged and not held and maintained target power (mostly only possible with a PM), the HR's attained would, and I'm speculating as I haven't tested, be different as well. No?

Quoted post said:

Originally Posted by Alex Simmons [IMG]/img/forum/go_quote.gif[/IMG]

[IMG]cyclingforums.com1000Open ↗[/IMG]

Quoted post said:

Originally Posted by Alex Simmons [IMG]/img/forum/go_quote.gif[/IMG]

[IMG]cyclingforums.com1000Open ↗[/IMG]

I'm thinking had one gone too hard and blown, their would be a minor spike. Had one not reached target intensity, the HR wouldn't have risen to an equal level.

But, this is looking at workouts in which intensity of effort is being managed with power. To interpret the value of managing intensity of effort with HR you need to look at workouts in which intensity of effort is being managed with HR.

Quoted post said:

Originally Posted by RapDaddyo [IMG]/img/forum/go_quote.gif[/IMG]

But, this is looking at workouts in which intensity of effort is being managed with power. To interpret the value of managing intensity of effort with HR you need to look at workouts in which intensity of effort is being managed with HR.

I think this is where we are getting confused. I am managing these efforts with RPE, and then confirming the consistency of my efforts with HR. There is no intensity management with HR.

It's obvious from looking at any graph of a 4 minute interval, that managing intensity via HR (along with HR's inherent lag) is entirely useless.

Aside from the short interval MO I mentioned above, the only other time I really use HR is to keep me from going to hard if the goal of the ride is too take it easy. I started racing when there was none of this. I'm a little old fashioned, but mostly just too broke to afford a PM, so RPE is the way it must be. At the very worst I still have the geese in the sky and the knowledge that I'm still alive. [IMG]/img/vbsmilies/smilies/wink.gif[/IMG]

Quoted post said:

Originally Posted by danfoz [IMG]/img/forum/go_quote.gif[/IMG]

Aside from the short interval MO I mentioned above, the only other time I really use HR is to keep me from going to hard if the goal of the ride is too take it easy. I started racing when there was none of this. I'm a little old fashioned, but mostly just too broke to afford a PM, so RPE is the way it must be. At the very worst I still have the geese in the sky and the knowledge that I'm still alive. [IMG]/img/vbsmilies/smilies/wink.gif[/IMG]

I actually think RPE is the next best choice if one doesn't have a PM. Or speed on a climb with a relatively consistent grade and light to moderate wind. The problem with HR is that it provides us with a precise metric and some extrapolate way too much from that metric. Your use of HR is more informed and, as you say, you have the affirmation that you're alive.[IMG]/img/vbsmilies/smilies/biggrin.gif[/IMG]