Why does everyone tell me "buy a new bike"

Upgrading it with those components would only make it marginally better. At the cost of those components, even though they are cheap, you could almost purchase another denali.

The trek you mentioned is on a whole other level of quality. Every single component on the GMC bike is build to a lower price point. To get the denali "up to snuff" you would have to literally replace all of the components, including the frame.

It sounds as if you have no personal experience to base a comparison on. Find a bike shop or two, talk to the employees and test ride a few of the basic models. After putting on some miles on another ride, you should be in a lot better position to decide what, if anything to change about the denali.

If you really have the urge to tinker on the GMC, one worthwhile upgrade would be to get a good set of tires. If you think you are going to stick with cycling, also consider clipless pedals/shoes - they are easily transferrable to a new bike when you decide to get one.

Thanks for the reply. I'm still not sure how this would only make the bike marginally better though. I could literally spend only about 150 dollars and replace everything on the bike except the frame. I could make it all sora components, and by technical standards it would be better than the Trek 1.1 which is retailing at 750 dollars, and has all sti 2300 components. Mainly because I am pretty poor right now, I am thinking of opting for Sora. But technically speaking, I could probably make it all Tiagra for well under 400 dollars. (I found one guy selling a moderately used whole Tiagra set for 200 bucks)

As for the frame, it definitely isn't the highest quality set. However, I really don't see a world of difference between it and the low end Trek, Specialized frames. It's still all aluminum and with the loss of weight, it would be quite comparable to the entry level bikes by the major companies. Plus the fit of the frame is pretty good for me, so in terms of comfort there are no real issues.

Also, I don't understand the point about purchasing another Denali since I only look to ride one bike. It would be pretty pointless to have two sets of the same bike.

It's only marginally better because Sora is still a pretty low-end component group. A real step up would be to 105 components, which, if bought new and by themselves, could run you $700-800. But, you can buy a bike for about that same amount already sporting a 105 groupset because the bike manufacturers have better buying power than you do.

If you are dead set on doing an internet comparison instead of in person. I can list the ways an "entry level" trek would be worth more than your upgraded GMC:

Sora (8 or 9) speed vs. Sora 7 speed - My guess is that the 7 speed is built to a much lower price point
Carbon fork vs. heavy threaded stem fork
Better headset
Better wheels (hubs, rims, rimstrip and spokes)
Better tires
Better frame
Better crankset
Better bottom bracket
Better cassette, and more gears
Better chain
Better seatpost
Better stem
Better seat
Better brake cables
Better brakes
Better shifter cables
Most likely a better fit
Better service

Now realize that I am not knocking the GMC, it is functional but built for a entirely different customer and purpose. I've owned similar bikes, from what I know is that the shifters are actually pretty functional. Upgrading the shifters would not be a priority for me. If you are looking for better performance at a low price point, tires and pedals are your best bet. If you want to get into cycling there are a lot better things to invest in. If it is not broken, it does not need fixing, save your money for something you really want.

Quoted post said:

Originally Posted by maydog [IMG]/img/forum/go_quote.gif[/IMG]

If you are dead set on doing an internet comparison instead of in person. I can list the ways an "entry level" trek would be worth more than your upgraded GMC:

Sora (8 or 9) speed vs. Sora 7 speed - My guess is that the 7 speed is built to a much lower price point
Carbon fork vs. heavy threaded stem fork
Better headset
Better wheels (hubs, rims, rimstrip and spokes)
Better tires
Better frame
Better crankset
Better bottom bracket
Better cassette, and more gears
Better chain
Better seatpost
Better stem
Better seat
Better brake cables
Better brakes
Better shifter cables
Most likely a better fit
Better service

Now realize that I am not knocking the GMC, it is functional but built for a entirely different customer and purpose. I've owned similar bikes, from what I know is that the shifters are actually pretty functional. Upgrading the shifters would not be a priority for me. If you are looking for better performance at a low price point, tires and pedals are your best bet. If you want to get into cycling there are a lot better things to invest in. If it is not broken, it does not need fixing, save your money for something you really want.

From everything I have read, 8 or 9 speeds isn't really necessarilly. I know personally on the 7 speed bike, i usually only go between two gears. I agree with all the specifics you listed, but the thing is I would literally cover the most important parts of those components with the purchases. I even got new brakes for only 25 bucks (Tetkro 817 I think. It was taken off a Cannondale Slice)

As for the service, I think I will still buy a used bike mainly because I don't have much need for the once a year basic tuneup that I can do at home. But either way, i'm really leaning towards buying a new bike. Even with all these changes it would be more trouble than its worth and I can see a lot of frustration with parts that might not fit too well together. I'm not the expert mechanic yet. The two bikes i've really taken a shine to are the "Giant Defy 2 (2010) model" and Jamis (although that's mostly for the cheap price, components aren't the greatest)

On another note though, do you thin it's wise to get 700 23 tires on the GMC Denali? Right now I have the 700 28 and they are perfect for winter, but in the summer it would be more practical to have the smaller tires for speed purposes. Do you think it's wise to put those tires on the rims. I've heard most people say it shouldn't be a problem. but I don't know, i'm skeptical.

Quoted post said:

Originally Posted by jpr95 [IMG]/img/forum/go_quote.gif[/IMG]

It's only marginally better because Sora is still a pretty low-end component group. A real step up would be to 105 components, which, if bought new and by themselves, could run you $700-800. But, you can buy a bike for about that same amount already sporting a 105 groupset because the bike manufacturers have better buying power than you do.

Of course, but only higher end bikes would have the 105 or Ultegra components. I don't know any entry level bicycles that these components (ex: Allez Sport, Trek 1.1, Giant Defy 3 etc..)

That's why you're getting confused. 105 components really aren't considered "high-end". They're more like mid-grade, third from the top, with Dura Ace and Ultegra ahead of 105, in that order. Of course, now, in a sense, there are two more grades above 105, as DA and Ultegra are both available with electronic shifting (Di2). $3000 or more for that privilege.

Changing the shifter knob on a Yugo doesn't really upgrade it, if you get the analogy.

Quoted post said:

Originally Posted by jpr95 [IMG]/img/forum/go_quote.gif[/IMG]

That's why you're getting confused. 105 components really aren't considered "high-end". They're more like mid-grade, third from the top, with Dura Ace and Ultegra ahead of 105, in that order. Of course, now, in a sense, there are two more grades above 105, as DA and Ultegra are both available with electronic shifting (Di2). $3000 or more for that privilege.

Changing the shifter knob on a Yugo doesn't really upgrade it, if you get the analogy.

Well by high end I mean above the entry level. Also you are right, changing the shifter knob on a Yugo doesn't upgrade it, but changing the engine, shifter, brakes, tires, wheel etc does.

kenzo5000 said:

On another note though, do you thin it's wise to get 700 23 tires on the GMC Denali?  Right now I have the 700 28 and they are perfect for winter, but in the summer it would be more practical to have the smaller tires for speed purposes.  Do you think it's wise to put those tires on the rims.  I've heard most people say it shouldn't be a problem. but I don't know, i'm skeptical.    Of course, but only higher end bikes would have the 105 or Ultegra components.  I don't know any entry level bicycles that these components (ex: Allez Sport, Trek 1.1, Giant Defy 3 etc..)Â

It depends on what tires you have now and what tires you would buy. All else being equal except for tire size, you won't notice any speed difference. The 28's will have a better ride because you can ride them at a lower pressure. As it is, 25's are quickly on their way to becoming the most common road tire size. Even some pro teams are riding on 25's. Not only will 28's and 25's provide a more compliant ride, they will also provide better grip in cornering because of their ability to run at lower pressures. The contact patch of a tire depends on rider weight + bike weight and inflation pressure. If you decrease the pressure contact patch size goes up. Frankly, unless you're racing a time trial, I can't see a real good reason for using 23's. As for component quality as a function of bike cost, a $700-800 bike can come with 105 or SRAM Rival, especially if the bike is a previous year's model that's been marked down (FYI, buying a previous year's model is an excellent way to get a nicer bike and nicer components at a cheaper price). Even if the bike only has Shimano Tiagra--below 105 but above Sora--or SRAM Apex (SRAM's lowest cost road component group. SRAM doesn't have anything that compares to SORA), you'll still be getting a good component group. Tiagra, Apex, 105, and Rival are heads above what would come on a GMC Denali bike.

Quoted post said:

Originally Posted by alienator [IMG]/img/forum/go_quote.gif[/IMG]

It depends on what tires you have now and what tires you would buy. All else being equal except for tire size, you won't notice any speed difference. The 28's will have a better ride because you can ride them at a lower pressure. As it is, 25's are quickly on their way to becoming the most common road tire size. Even some pro teams are riding on 25's. Not only will 28's and 25's provide a more compliant ride, they will also provide better grip in cornering because of their ability to run at lower pressures. The contact patch of a tire depends on rider weight + bike weight and inflation pressure. If you decrease the pressure contact patch size goes up. Frankly, unless you're racing a time trial, I can't see a real good reason for using 23's.

As for component quality as a function of bike cost, a $700-800 bike can come with 105 or SRAM Rival, especially if the bike is a previous year's model that's been marked down (FYI, buying a previous year's model is an excellent way to get a nicer bike and nicer components at a cheaper price). Even if the bike only has Shimano Tiagra--below 105 but above Sora--or SRAM Apex (SRAM's lowest cost road component group. SRAM doesn't have anything that compares to SORA), you'll still be getting a good component group. Tiagra, Apex, 105, and Rival are heads above what would come on a GMC Denali bike.

Thanks for the info. Do you have any bike you would recommend? I'm looking for an endurance road bike, and so far the Giant Defy 2 (2010 model) has really appealed to me. I've heard it's a good bike for long biking. I love to bike for 6-7 hours straight. My budget is I would say 500-600 at most. I've also seen the Trek Discovery Channel bicycle on sale for 400 dollars and I believe it has 105 components.

I know personal fit is the biggest issue, but ignoring that for the time being. If you personally had to choose, what kind of bike would you take? and whats your personal opinion on the Giant defy 2?