Edward Snowden : Right or wrong?

jpr95 said:

Too many are indoctrinated in government schools or receive government-issued benefits, thus the lack of willingness to hold the government accountable at the polls.  Can't bite the hand that feeds them.

Well, that's certainly a heavily slanted way to look at things. Note that "heavily slanted" is not the same as "reality based" or "objective". I'm willing to bet your version of things has little to do with it and that apathy and fear mongering have more to do with it.

Quoted post said:

Originally Posted by alienator [IMG]/img/forum/go_quote.gif[/IMG]

Well, that's certainly a heavily slanted way to look at things. Note that "heavily slanted" is not the same as "reality based" or "objective". I'm willing to be your version of things has little to do with it and that apathy and fear mongering have more to do with it.

+1

A lot of slanted views in the US on both sides of the roof.

Quoted post said:

Originally Posted by alienator [IMG]/img/forum/go_quote.gif[/IMG]

Well, that's certainly a heavily slanted way to look at things. Note that "heavily slanted" is not the same as "reality based" or "objective". I'm willing to bet your version of things has little to do with it and that apathy and fear mongering have more to do with it.

You'd lose that bet.

jpr95 said:

You'd lose that bet.

Sure, if you're the judge, but you're the one who believes in government schools where kids are being indoctrinated, something for which you have zero proof. You should speak more plainly about exactly who the people are that are receiving government benefits and as such won't hold the government accountable. Please, use objective arguments, not arguments from your political campaign book.

Consider that nearly 50% of U.S. citizens are getting government benefits. You don't think that skews voting? When I went to school (which included pariochial, American private overseas, international private, U.S. public, and U.S. public G/T residential), I was actually taught some of the meaning behind the U.S. Constitution. Now, kids are taught (in government schools) that the 2nd Amendment "doesn't apply now" and similar, all the while being taught how to meet the NCLB standards. Meanwhile, the average U.S. student is an overweight dolt compared to the rest of the civilized world. But, no, that won't affect voting.

Oh, and you'd lose that bet because you don't even come close to getting my motivations correct, which are nowhere close to "apathy" and "fear-mongering".

jpr95 said:

Consider that nearly 50% of U.S. citizens are getting government benefits.  You don't think that skews voting?  When I went to school (which included pariochial, American private overseas, international private, U.S. public, and U.S. public G/T residential), I was actually taught some of the meaning behind the U.S. Constitution.  Now, kids are taught (in government schools) that the 2nd Amendment "doesn't apply now" and similar, all the while being taught how to meet the NCLB standards.  Meanwhile, the average U.S. student is an overweight dolt compared to the rest of the civilized world.  But, no, that won't affect voting.  Oh, and you'd lose that bet because you don't even come close to getting my motivations correct, which are nowhere close to "apathy" and "fear-mongering".

Well, I have to admit that I don't much care what your motivations are. That you think kids are being indoctrinated pretty says everything that needs to be said about you. That you think people receiving benefits vote homogeneously reflects even more poorly on you. The SNR of your message is extremely low.

Quoted post said:

Originally Posted by alienator [IMG]/img/forum/go_quote.gif[/IMG]

Well, I have to admit that I don't much care what your motivations are. That you think kids are being indoctrinated pretty says everything that needs to be said about you. That you think people receiving benefits vote homogeneously reflects even more poorly on you. The SNR of your message is extremely low.

I said "skews". Big difference. Your inability to read and comprehend is laid bare.

Oh, well. If I told you that a truck was about to run you over, you'd probably call it "fear mongering". Carry on with being an ostrich.

jpr95 said:

I said "skews".  Big difference.  Your inability to read and comprehend is laid bare. Oh, well.  If I told you that a truck was about to run you over, you'd probably call it "fear mongering".  Carry on with being an ostrich.

Actually, this is what you said: "Too many are indoctrinated in government schools or receive government-issued benefits, thus the lack of willingness to hold the government accountable at the polls. Can't bite the hand that feeds them." No skewing. Just paranoid claims devoid of facts, all based on convenient stereotypes.

Right. I said "too many", not "all". Again, shades of language that your black-and-white brain apparently struggles to comprehend.

The proof is in the pudding. American students educated in public schools are getting whipped in math and science amongst our civilized peer countries. But we sure are good at teaching them how to put on a rubber, pop pills or toke up. What's happened to the federal food stamp program in the last 5 years? What happens to every candidate that threatens to even touch Social Security? The more benefits people receive from the gubmint, the more selfish they are at the polls, even if it's at the expense of the country as a whole. But, hey, if you like the track we're on, just sit back and enjoy the ride, because it's downhill from here. And we threw away the brakes long ago.

jpr95 said:

Right.  I said "too many", not "all".  Again, shades of language that your black-and-white brain apparently struggles to comprehend. The proof is in the pudding.  American students educated in public schools are getting whipped in math and science amongst our civilized peer countries.  But we sure are good at teaching them how to put on a rubber, pop pills or toke up.  What's happened to the federal food stamp program in the last 5 years?  What happens to every candidate that threatens to even touch Social Security?  The more benefits people receive from the gubmint, the more selfish they are at the polls, even if it's at the expense of the country as a whole.  But, hey, if you like the track we're on, just sit back and enjoy the ride, because it's downhill from here.  And we threw away the brakes long ago.

Yeah, that's what schools are teaching: how to put on a rubber, pop pills, and toke up. Your imagined reality is so far removed from the rest of the world. As for your political insight, it's value is about that of an Italian Lira right now. Of course you don't mention the government money from which you benefit because of where you live, where you work, your age, or any number of things the directly or indirectly benefit you. I'll bet your church gets a big ol' tax break in the form of exemption. The oil companies whose gas you buy get government bennies. It's no surprise that your last retort is a bit of fear mongering...."...because it's all downhill from here." Uh-huh. Again, where is all this "government indoctrination" going on? Please provide proof.

Not all the teaching done in schools is done by the teachers. My statement was clearly satirical, but that's apparently lost on you (we're back to that reading comprehension deficit thing again...) You want proof? Look at how much we've spent, as a nation, on public education in the last 50 years. It's an obscene amount. Look it up for yourself, you obviously won't believe any link I would post. Then look at how the average American student stacks up against the rest of the civilized world over the last 50 years. Maybe after you look at those two graphs, you'll start to get it. And, for your viewing pleasure out of Detoilet (I would think that effective communication skills of any form would be a requirement for a school board president):

Seen the movie Idiocracy?

By the way, look up the word "indoctrinate". You'll find that it means principally to teach. And the government runs the public school system, increasingly at the federal level--you think they're going to teach kids to be skeptical of public policy and politicians and to hold them accountable at the polls? HAHAHAHA!. Talk to some teachers who have to meet NCLB standards sometime and ask them what they think of teaching to those tests. Wake up and think for yourself, HaterAlien. Or keep voting for those DumbMarxRats as they spend our money like drunken sailors. The other side of the aisle isn't much better, but at least they've shown some willingness to put down the public credit card.

I won't even get into the college racket. That bubble is soon to burst. $1T in outstanding student loans that just got a higher interest rate while record numbers of 20-somethings sit at their parents' homes, jobless, debating whether to wipe their asses with their sheepskin.

For the record, I'm against my church getting an "exemption"--because I'm against property taxes on principle. I don't like renting my property from the government (and if you don't think property tax is "rent", try not paying them some time and see how long it remains "your" property). I'm also against corporate subsidies, be they oil companies, farms or pharma. Or the companies that make those big, ugly, spinny bird-killers while the CEO laughs all the way to the bank with his paycheck from you and me. A simple, use/transactional tax system would be fine with me.

jpr95 said:

Not all the teaching done in schools is done by the teachers.  My statement was clearly satirical, but that's apparently lost on you (we're back to that reading comprehension deficit thing again...)  You want proof?  Look at how much we've spent, as a nation, on public education in the last 50 years.  It's an obscene amount.  Look it up for yourself, you obviously won't believe any link I would post.  Then look at how the average American student stacks up against the rest of the civilized world over the last 50 years.  Maybe after you look at those two graphs, you'll start to get it.  And, for your viewing pleasure out of Detoilet (I would think that effective communication skills of any form would be a requirement for a school board president):

Seen the movie Idiocracy? By the way, look up the word "indoctrinate".  You'll find that it means principally to teach.  And the government runs the public school system, increasingly at the federal level--you think they're going to teach kids to be skeptical of public policy and politicians and to hold them accountable at the polls?  HAHAHAHA!.  Talk to some teachers who have to meet NCLB standards sometime and ask them what they think of teaching to those tests.  Wake up and think for yourself, HaterAlien.  Or keep voting for those DumbMarxRats as they spend our money like drunken sailors.  The other side of the aisle isn't much better, but at least they've shown some willingness to put down the public credit card. I won't even get into the college racket.  That bubble is soon to burst.  $1T in outstanding student loans that just got a higher interest rate while record numbers of 20-somethings sit at their parents' homes, jobless, debating whether to wipe their asses with their sheepskin. For the record, I'm against my church getting an "exemption"--because I'm against property taxes on principle.  I don't like renting my property from the government (and if you don't think property tax is "rent", try not paying them some time and see how long it remains "your" property).  I'm also against corporate subsidies, be they oil companies, farms or pharma.  Or the companies that make those big, ugly, spinny bird-killers while the CEO laughs all the way to the bank with his paycheck from you and me.  A simple, use/transactional tax system would be fine with me.

Clearly satirical? Hardly. It sounds exactly like the [censored] that comes out of the mouths of people with very partisan views. You haven't been paying much attention if you haven't heard the same type of [censored] coming out of the mouths of segments of the electorate. How much we've spent on education as a nation has nothing to do with alleged indoctrination, and your views of what should be spent on education are irrelevant. That's a red herring that your flinging into the discussion. Through all your squawking, it's apparent that schools aren't teaching what you want, which is your brand of politics. Since you don't have a large sampling schools, data, or any facts at all to back up your political claims, all you're doing is drowning any signal so deep in noise that it can't be recovered. You're conflating what you imagine with truth. Perhaps it's time to take off the political goggles that blind you and time to try a little bit of objectivity. Wow. Marx. That clearly stakes out your point of view and where in the political spectrum you fall. It pegs you as an extremist. Perhaps it's best if you and yours build yourself a little compound away from the rest of the world and all the threats you imagine. Party tool. That's the phrase I was looking for when I read what you just wrote.

And which party would that be, O Great One ( <--mocking phrase here, so you don't think I'm being serious)?

You really need to brush up on the basic principles of Marxism and take a long, hard look at the country--the size of government and corporate welfare. Or continue to be a liberal sheeple enjoying the bread and circuses.

I can also tell you didn't watch the video in the YouTube link.

Party stooge, jpr95, proves the addendum to Godwin's law by being so misguided as to bring up Marxism in a totally irrelevant thread on the internet. Which is it, jpr95: you're playing a big joke and yanking everyone's chain, or you are a big joke? You fit the classic wingnut stereotype. Continue talking to yourself because you apparently have nothing intelligent or objective to say.

Quoted post said:

Originally Posted by jpr95 [IMG]/img/forum/go_quote.gif[/IMG]
...
You really need to brush up on the basic principles of Marxism...

I know some awesome commie-jokes.... [IMG]files.cyclingforums.comgrin.pngOpen ↗[/IMG]

1.

Guy stands in the middle of red square and shouts: "Comrad Breznief is a pig!!!"
He gets 20years and 1day in prison. 1 day for swearing and 20years for exposing government secrets.

2.

A rabbit sits all sceptical in the forest. A bear passes by and sees it. It goes there and it says: "Whats wrong? You seem worried." The rabbit says: "Its deer hunting season and I am a bit worried." So the bear says: "Why do you worry? You are not a deer" and the rabbit says: "Yeah, but I dont have any papers to prove it!"

3.

A spy lands on the USSR with the mission of sabotaging the railway. At some point he has some thoughs and decides to turn him self in.
He goes to the security office and says: "I am a spy and I came here to sabotage the railway and I would like to turn my self in".
The clerk says:" The commercial or the military railway?"
-The commercial.
-Ok then, you need to go to the office 2b in the second floor.
He goes there.
-I am a spy and I came here to sabotage the commercial railway and I would like to turn my self in
-Would you sabotage it with explosives or other means?
-With other means
-Then you need to go to offce 3h on the third floor
He goes there
-I am spy I came here to sabotage the commercial railway with other means then explosives and I would like to turn my self in.
-Are you from country member of NATO or not?
-I am from a country member of NATO
-Then you need to go to office 4f on the 4th floor.
He goes there
-I am a spy from a country member of NATO and I came here to sabotage the commercial railway with means other then explosives and I would like to turn my self in.
-Are you over 25?
-Yes
-Then you need to go to office 6g in the 6th floor.
He goes there.
-I am an over 25yo spy from a country member of NATO and I came here to sabotage the commercial railway with means other then explosives and I would like to turn my self in.
-We are sorry but we are closed now. You need to come back tomorow!!!

4.

A channel is making a poll about the lack of meat in various countries.
First the reporter goes to Finland
-Whats your opinion on the lack of meat?
-Meat whats that?
Then he goes to Sweden
-Whats your opinion on the lack of meat?
-Lack? What is that?
Then he goes to the USSR
-Whats your opinion on the lack of meat?
-OPINION??? What is that???

5.

The first communist built automatic passenger aircraft is making its first journey. The people go in and the plane takes off.
At cruising altitude an automated voice sounds from the loudspeakers."Welcome to the first fully automatic communist built aircraft without pilots. Please relax and enjoy the flight, everything works automatically - BZZZZ automatically - BZZZZ automatically - BZZZZ automatically - BZZZZ automatically - BZZZZ automatically - BZZZZ automatically.

6.

Another scenario about the Chernobyl accident.
The night maintenance guy is sitting on the control panel of the plant. The same night there is a football match with Moscow playing with Vladivostok which he wants to listen.
So he has a look on the control panel and sees 3 buttons. One says "Borium" the other says "Cadmium" and the other says "Radio".
Then he presses "Radio".

I llke your #2 joke about the rabbit.

Quoted post said:

Originally Posted by jhuskey [IMG]/img/forum/go_quote.gif[/IMG]

I llke your #2 joke about the rabbit.

[IMG]files.cyclingforums.comgrin.pngOpen ↗[/IMG][IMG]files.cyclingforums.comgrin.pngOpen ↗[/IMG][IMG]files.cyclingforums.comgrin.pngOpen ↗[/IMG]

Snowden is a just [censored] moron, but he (so far) added only a few details to what has long been known about internal spying on Americans. Hell, just try being a firearm owner with some machineguns and suppressors and see how many 'lists' you make.

Hang out on the firearm forums and get an education in the history of the U.S. Stasi spying on its own citizens...innocent or otherwise. Our popular TV shows have even documented this stuff, going back over a decade. Google Room 641A...one of many known wire taps into commo lines. J. Edgar Hoover specialized in limited (kinda sorta by comparison the scale of today's snooping) spying on Americans going back over five decades...including spying on the Presidents of the U.S.

Remember the fall of the DDR and the ransacking of Stasi headquarters and all the papers flying in the wind and fires burning in the streets?

That will happen here. Eventually. Only it will be piles of hard drives shoveled onto the pyres.

Now...spying on the EU? That's retarded. Who gives a damn?

Quoted post said:

Originally Posted by CAMPYBOB [IMG]/img/forum/go_quote.gif[/IMG]

Now...spying on the EU? That's retarded. Who gives a damn?

Mrs Merkel gives a damn about looots of things... [IMG]files.cyclingforums.combig smile.pngOpen ↗[/IMG]