Ultegra 6500 / Da 7700 To 105 5800

I can tell you my new Cervelo has the new 5800 105 group and I think it performs very smoothly. I came off my Klein that had full Ultegra and I'd say this new 105 group shifts better. I've read in magazines and other forums that the new 105 stuff is much improved and is much closer to the Ultegra stuff in performance now. That being said I will eventually switch to at least Ultegra after I put some more wear on the 105 stuff, deals are easy to find these days. I hope that helps.

44 years almost exclusively on Campy equipped racing bikes...I have about 300 miles on the new 5800 stuff. It's bolted to an Emonda.

The front D is a bit touchy to set up. Other than that, decent enough components. The chain and cassette are smooth. The chainrings lack elegance and the tooth profile is a bit crude, but it runs smoothly enough. The crank arms and spider are plenty stiff enough.

BB is the typical TREK PF 86 type 105. So far it is smooth, solid and no creaking noises.

I use a 39-53 and 11-25. Overall shifting is good other than the front D downshift back onto the 39 taking 2 swipes of the lever to get the chain to drop. Shifting is no where near as positive as Campagnolo, but I could race on this 105 if I had to.

The rear D shifts almost too lightly. Sometimes it's difficult to tell if the shift actually went through. The levers have a really light feel to the shifters in both shift directions. The swinging brake lever is weird for a Campy guy to get used to. Missing my Campy multi-shift range too. In hilly and rolling terrain it's an appreciated feature.

The lever are supposedly improved this year to be more like Ultegra levers, mechanically...if I'm understanding what the shimNO guys are saying. Supposed to be easier on the shift cables and a more durable package, internally. I have no clue there...just repeating what people are saying.

The 5800 brakes are plenty good. Stiff and solid. Modulation and all that esoteric stuff...yeah, they work well enough to stop the bike or slow into a fast downhill blind corner.

It will be interesting to see how well the black finish holds up. It looks good out-of-the-box.

Oh yeah, far and away the best component in the package are the carbon pedals. I've used Campy Pro-fit pedals for years and I rate them among the best ever built. They are stabile and comfortable pedals...and very well built. The Shimano pedals are darn good. Light weight, comfortable, stabile, easy entry, smooth bearings. The only negative...and it's a really minor [censored]...is that the release is noisy (loud snap) and feels kind of crude and graunchy compared to the Pro-Fits. Still, a very nice pedal for the money IMO.

All said, I don't think you'll miss your Ultegra components and you'll like that 11th gear a lot.

Xcessiv said:

Hey 😄

I know the SS Evo is different animal, I don't mind the much more agressive frame. I'm instead wondering about the mechanical components themselves. Would I miss my old 7700/6500 groupset?

Everything Campybob said, plus fully adjustable lever reach. I never did like fiddling around with rubber STI shims.

Bob's right about the front derailleur needing more fussing to get right, but once you get to know it it's pretty straightforward. After working with these for about a year, I can set one of these right in just a little more time than it takes to do a 10-speed, and without chewing up the cable with multiple tries at getting it taut enough. But it takes practice.

Bob, your two swipes to get the chain to drop the small ring doesn't sound right. I'd take another look at the position of the pin that aligns the cable to the pinch bolt. This is dependent on where the cable pokes up from between the chain stays. These shifters also have a low trim position.The first sweep of the small paddle should drop the chain under all conditions, and then if you have rub on the inside plate, there's a lower trim position to get rid of that.

Thanks, OBC. I'll take another look at the cable location on that new, long arm of the law pivot.

The cable is taut prior to going up to the 53...no slack to be removed and the cables are some sort of skinny Jagwire brand.

The first full swipe of the downshift lever moves the cage, but evidently one click/detent shy of causing the chain to drop. The second swipe brings it home.

I had to move the derailleur up the seatpost when I changed out the compact rings for the 39-53 setup and also adjust the cage outer stop outboard maybe .020"-.030" to eliminate rub in the 53-11.

OK...read the manual (always my last resort!).

Will check that converter pin setting. I did not change it as I did not even know it could be changed when I changed out the chainrings.

I will check for correct cable routing to match the converter pin position.

I will check for cage setup alignment to large ring for parallelism again.

Now, where does a fellow buy the shimaNO TL-FD68 tool to verify the converter pin position? I've never seen a front derailleur that required a tool to determine cable routing before.

Should my converter normally be ON or OFF for a 39-53 / 11-25 on an Emonda?

Who says you can't teach and old Campydog new shimaNO tricks?!

When I re-installed the cable I missed the converter pin even being there and routed the cable as I had on front derailleurs since time immemorial...Campy style, of course!

Converter pins? We don' neeed no steenkin' converter pins!

First, without having that nifty cable gauge tool, I eyeballed the cable route by holding it taut centered on the anchor bolt hole centerline. That test showed the converter pin should be in the ON position...it was.

I re-routed the cable anchor area per the setup instructions and it dumps down to the 39 with one swipe now and with a click left over for trim when using the innermost cassette gears. At least it does on the test stand.

I'll road test it whenever Spring comes...so...June!

Thank you, OBC!

CAMPYBOB said:

Now, where does a fellow buy the shimaNO TL-FD68 tool to verify the converter pin position? I've never seen a front derailleur that required a tool to determine cable routing before.

Should my converter normally be ON or OFF for a 39-53 / 11-25 on an Emonda?

You don't need the TL-FD68 to verify the position. In fact, the tool appeared to be an afterthought after too many shop mechanics couldn't follow Shimano's original instructions.

The objective is to make the cable to run an almost straight line past the pin to its anchor point behind the pinch bolt when you're on the inner ring. The pin causes a bit extra cable tension when you pull up to the big ring, but pivots away a bit when you drop down to the small ring.

The original Shimano instructions showed you how to eyeball the cable run, but I've been using this shortcut on Treks (and confirming it with the "official" procedures) for a few months now. Simply observe where the cable pops up from between the chainstays. If it's closer to the left stay, the pin goes to the left. If it's closer to the right stay or in the middle, the pin goes to the right.

And here's my cheat for getting the right cable tension the first time. After tuning the rear derailleur and aligning the cage on for the front, Shift to small-small, loosen the front high limit a bit, to be safe, if you haven't already set it, and then tighten the low limit so the cage touches the chain. If you're using new cable and housing, you want it firmly against the chain to allow for the ferrules seating. Next, back off the inline adjuster and hit the low paddle again to get into low trim. Now you're ready to pull on the cable (I use my bare hand if it hasn't been cut yet, or pliers if it has) while tightening the pinch bolt. Finally, reset the limit screws and fine tune the cable tension with some practice shifts, and there you are.

Older Shimano front derailleurs depended on a bit of cable slack when against the low limit screw, so the downshift was solely under the control of the return spring and the limit screw. The 11-speed version seems to be designed for the downshift to be controlled by the amount of cable tension released. The release should drop the chain; then, if the chain rubs, low trim will let out more cable til the cage hits the limit screw. Why? Maybe this design reduces the number of chain drops off the small ring. I don't know for sure.

Regarding cable tension and the high limit screw, the front derailleur is supposed to ride ridiculously close to the outside of the chain. Shimano advises 0.5-1.0 mm clearance between the chain and outer plate when the chain is in its outermost position. If, in this position, you're not getting some chain rub when you drop to high trim, the cable is too tight.

Crazy, huh? I hope it helps.

Ain't this ironic, the most technical discussion of Shimano 11-speed happening between Campagnolo and SRAM guys?

Irony...how does it work?!

I printed your setup instructions and put a copy with my complete set of dealer manuals, exploded views and parts lists in my shimaNO 3-ring binder.

I used slightly less initial cable tension when I set the front D up this time. Previously it was a banjo string.

Yeah, anyone that sets a chain/cage clearance up to .5 MM / .020" is asking for cage noise or a call-back for a second adjustment. 1 MM is a minimum and the bend of the shimaNO arms seem to allow more clearance to the backside of the arm/outer cage plate than Campy. Lots of room for more internal chain/cage clearance so why not use it?

Campy has trim, but with just a fast setup and dial-in I rarely need to fish for a trim position on the road. Only when climbing hard while stupidly cross-eyed from effort and cross-chaining to try and stay on a wheel will I get a rub in the 53-23 (25 low on this one, also) and dial it out by dropping the cage a click.

Running the same gearing on the 105-5800 I really have not needed to trim much. It was only the double-swipe drop to the 39 that was bugging me and that was my own doing. Well...that swinging brake lever is still bugging me!