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Coalition for Safe Minds wins award

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01 / Original postCoalition for Safe Minds wins awardPeter Bowditch · 3 Jan 2004 02 / This pagePosts 1–20Page 1 of 2 · chronological order 03 / Latest replyPost #22Mark Probertjan · 5 Jan 2004

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General fitness, health and nutrition
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3 January 2004
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5 January 2004
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Peter Bowditch
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  1. Original post
    Peter Bowditch
    Archived post
    #1

    The Coalition for Safe Minds was Highly Commended in the 2003 Millenium Project Awards

    ratbags.com2003awards.htm

    Here is the text of the award citation:

    How can I put this politely? The best I can do is to say that the Coalition for Safe Minds is one of
    the most disgusting, egregious and dishonest anti-vaccination liar sites I have ever come across. It
    is a site which exists for the purpose of frightening parents into endangering their children's'
    lives, using the threat of autism. The name "Safe Minds" is supposed to mean "Sensible Action for
    Ending Mercury-Induced Neurological Disorders", but if they are concerned about mercury, where are
    the pages about environmental mercury? Where are the pages about dental amalgam? (There is one link
    on the site to an anti-amalgam loon site. That is the only mention of what has been described as
    "the biggest source of mercury in the human body".) What this site is about is not autism and not
    mercury. It is about stopping vaccination.

    And how do I know that they are liars? How do I know that they oppose vaccination? How do I know
    that they believe that the end justifies the means and that they will knowingly lie to achieve
    those ends? Because a site supposedly about the dangerous links between mercury preservatives in
    vaccines and autism contains a comprehensive attack on studies which show no relationship between
    MMR vaccine and autism. MMR has never contained mercury, and the owners of this site know this.
    That does not stop them from lying by suggestion. If the agenda is to increase the number of dead
    and damaged children, then whether you do it by measles or rubella or do it by diphtheria,
    pertussis or polio doesn't really matter. They still die or become disabled, and the objective has
    been achieved.

    --
    Peter Bowditch
    The Millenium Project ratbags.comrsoles
    The Green Light ratbags.comgreenlight
    and The New Improved Quintessence of the Loon with added Vitamins and C-Q10 ratbags.comloon
    To email me use my first name only at ratbags.com

    Report
  2. Jan
    Archived post
    #2
    Quoted message said:

    Subject: Coalition for Safe Minds wins award
    From: Peter Bowditch [email hidden]
    Date: 1/2/2004 1:37 PM Pacific Standard Time
    Message-id: <[email hidden]>

    The Coalition for Safe Minds was Highly Commended in the 2003 Millenium Project Awards

    Which is how Peter wastes his time.

    Jan

    Report
  3. Peter Bowditch
    Archived post
    #3
    (Jan) said:
    Quoted message said:

    Subject: Coalition for Safe Minds wins award From: Peter Bowditch [email hidden] Date:
    1/2/2004 1:37 PM Pacific Standard Time Message-id: <[email hidden]>

    The Coalition for Safe Minds was Highly Commended in the 2003 Millenium Project Awards

    Which is how Peter wastes his time.

    Jan

    You have already commented about this. I would think you have OCD except that, as you know, there is
    no such thing.

    --
    Peter Bowditch
    The Millenium Project ratbags.comrsoles
    The Green Light ratbags.comgreenlight
    and The New Improved Quintessence of the Loon with added Vitamins and C-Q10 ratbags.comloon
    To email me use my first name only at ratbags.com

    Report
  4. John
    Archived post
    #4

    [email hidden] (Jan) wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    Subject: Coalition for Safe Minds wins award From: Peter Bowditch [email hidden] Date:
    1/2/2004 1:37 PM Pacific Standard Time Message-id: <[email hidden]>

    The Coalition for Safe Minds was Highly Commended in the 2003 Millenium Project Awards

    Which is how Peter wastes his time.

    Jan

    LOL. Wakefield said that Dr Fitzpatrick, who is a rabid pro-MMR doc, has done him a lot of good by,
    presumably, drawing attention to his work.

    No doubt the pharma industry like morons like Bowshit as they think he is helping their cause.
    Pharma agents like him actually do the truth a service by being so insane, and by attacking vaccine
    critics--it just lets more people know about Safe Minds. He thinks people listen to his rubbish and
    even read his site! he has never put a web counter on it, and we all know why that is

    Report
  5. Mark Probertjan
    Archived post
    #5

    "Peter Bowditch" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    The Coalition for Safe Minds was Highly Commended in the 2003 Millenium Project Awards

    ratbags.com2003awards.htm

    Here is the text of the award citation:

    How can I put this politely? The best I can do is to say that the Coalition for Safe Minds is one
    of the most disgusting, egregious and dishonest anti-vaccination liar sites I have ever come
    across. It is a site which exists for the purpose of frightening parents into endangering their
    children's' lives, using the threat of autism. The name "Safe Minds" is supposed to mean "Sensible
    Action for Ending Mercury-Induced Neurological Disorders", but if they are concerned about
    mercury, where are the pages about environmental mercury? Where are the pages about dental
    amalgam? (There is one link on the site to an anti-amalgam loon site. That is the only mention of
    what has been described as "the biggest source of mercury in the human body".) What this site is
    about is not autism and not mercury. It is about stopping vaccination.

    And how do I know that they are liars? How do I know that they oppose vaccination? How do I know
    that they believe that the end justifies the means and that they will knowingly lie to achieve
    those ends? Because a site supposedly about the dangerous links between mercury preservatives in
    vaccines and autism contains a comprehensive attack on studies which show no relationship between
    MMR vaccine and autism. MMR has never contained mercury, and the owners of this site know this.
    That does not stop them from lying by suggestion. If the agenda is to increase the number of dead
    and damaged children, then whether you do it by measles or rubella or do it by diphtheria,
    pertussis or polio doesn't really matter. They still die or become disabled, and the objective
    has been achieved.

    Excellent choice! they are clearly deservant of it. Now, I hope that they wil put a link on their
    site that lets their visitors read the award.

    First, tho, go to www.donotholdyourbreath.org.

    Report
  6. Roger Schlafly
    Archived post
    #6

    "Peter Bowditch" <[email hidden]> wrote

    Quoted message said:

    And how do I know that they are liars?

    Not because you found any lies. Only because you object to sites expressing opinions like these:

    We work aggressively with government agencies and legislators to facilitate the removal of mercury
    from all medical products. We strongly encourage research efforts to understand scientifically how
    mercury in these products is causing harm and how effective treatments can be developed.
    safeminds.orgsafeminds.org

    Report
  7. Pf Riley
    Archived post
    #7
    Roger Schlafly said:

    "Peter Bowditch" <[email hidden]> wrote

    Quoted message said:

    And how do I know that they are liars?

    Not because you found any lies.

    Yes, they are liars, and there are plenty of lies on their website. Here are a few:

    "In the US, large payments are being made to children damaged by thiomersal, the mercury
    preservative used in the US (though not the UK) version of the MMR vaccine."

    safeminds.orguk times.html

    "Thimerosal was first marketed in the mid 1930's and autism was first described as a new never
    before seen disorder in 1943, in children born in the 1930's."

    safeminds.orgverstraeten.html

    PF

    Report
  8. Roger Schlafly
    Archived post
    #8

    "PF Riley" <[email hidden]> wrote

    Quoted message said:

    Yes, they are liars, and there are plenty of lies on their website. Here are a few: "In the US,
    large payments are being made to children damaged by thiomersal, the mercury preservative used in
    the US (though not the UK) version of the MMR vaccine."
    safeminds.orguk times.html

    That is a link to a UK Times article, with a copy of the article. (The Times charges a fee to get
    the article.) I suggest that you write a letter to the editor of the UK Times.

    Quoted message said:

    "Thimerosal was first marketed in the mid 1930's and autism was first described as a new never
    before seen disorder in 1943, in children born in the 1930's."
    safeminds.orgverstraeten.html

    And Safeminds.org knows this to be false? How?

    Report
  9. Happy Dog
    Archived post
    #9

    "Roger Schlafly" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    "PF Riley" <[email hidden]> wrote

    Quoted message said:

    Yes, they are liars, and there are plenty of lies on their website. Here are a few: "In the US,
    large payments are being made to children damaged by thiomersal, the mercury preservative used
    in the US (though not the UK) version of the MMR vaccine."
    safeminds.orguk times.html

    That is a link to a UK Times article, with a copy of the article. (The Times charges a fee to get
    the article.) I suggest that you write a letter to the editor of the UK Times.

    Quoted message said:

    "Thimerosal was first marketed in the mid 1930's and autism was first described as a new never
    before seen disorder in 1943, in children born in the 1930's."
    safeminds.orgverstraeten.html

    And Safeminds.org knows this to be false? How?

    You don't know that they don't. And, even if they're ignorant of the reality of some of the [censored]
    they offer as information, that doesn't make the information any less a lie. Your unblemished record
    of weaselling remains intact Roger.

    le moo

    Report
  10. Peter Bowditch
    Archived post
    #10
    (john) said:

    [email hidden] (Jan) wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    Subject: Coalition for Safe Minds wins award From: Peter Bowditch [email hidden] Date:
    1/2/2004 1:37 PM Pacific Standard Time Message-id: <[email hidden]>

    The Coalition for Safe Minds was Highly Commended in the 2003 Millenium Project Awards

    Which is how Peter wastes his time.

    Jan

    LOL. Wakefield said that Dr Fitzpatrick, who is a rabid pro-MMR doc, has done him a lot of good by,
    presumably, drawing attention to his work.

    No doubt the pharma industry like morons like Bowshit

    Jan, Jan, - namecalling!!! Please tell John to stop it.

    Quoted message said:

    as they think he is helping their cause. Pharma agents like him actually do the truth a service by
    being so insane, and by attacking vaccine critics--it just lets more people know about Safe Minds.
    He thinks people listen to his rubbish and even read his site! he has never put a web counter on
    it, and we all know why that is

    Which page is the counter on at whale.to, John?

    Current Alexa rankings - ratbags.com 72,414, whale.to 123,014

    John has never put a web counter on his site, and we all know why that is.

    --
    Peter Bowditch
    The Millenium Project ratbags.comrsoles
    The Green Light ratbags.comgreenlight
    and The New Improved Quintessence of the Loon with added Vitamins and C-Q10 ratbags.comloon
    To email me use my first name only at ratbags.com

    Report
  11. Pf Riley
    Archived post
    #11
    Roger Schlafly said:

    "PF Riley" <[email hidden]> wrote

    Quoted message said:

    Yes, they are liars, and there are plenty of lies on their website. Here are a few: "In the US,
    large payments are being made to children damaged by thiomersal, the mercury preservative used in
    the US (though not the UK) version of the MMR vaccine."
    safeminds.orguk times.html

    That is a link to a UK Times article, with a copy of the article. (The Times charges a fee to get
    the article.) I suggest that you write a letter to the editor of the UK Times.

    You implied Bowditch could not find any lies on their website when he called them liars. I found a
    lie on their website. It doesn't matter if they're quoting someone else or not. If they deliberately
    reproduce false material on their website, they are liars.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    "Thimerosal was first marketed in the mid 1930's and autism was first described as a new never
    before seen disorder in 1943, in children born in the 1930's."
    safeminds.orgverstraeten.html

    And Safeminds.org knows this to be false? How?

    So you're saying ignorance is an excuse? I honestly don't know which website one should be more wary
    of -- one where the authors deliberately lie (like John "whaleto"😉, or one where, only by ignorance,
    stupidity, and/or extremely poor judgment, they spout utter nonsense (like your ridiculous "FAQ"😉.
    I'd say avoid both.

    PF

    Report
  12. Cbi
    Archived post
    #12

    "Roger Schlafly" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    "Thimerosal was first marketed in the mid 1930's and


    autism was first

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    described as a new never before seen disorder in 1943,


    in children

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    born in the 1930's." safeminds.orgverstraeten.html

    And Safeminds.org knows this to be false? How?

    Doesn't matter.

    If they are presenting it as a fact without verifying that it is true then it is a lie. if it is not
    true then it is unlikely that they verified it.

    --
    CBI, MD

    Report
  13. Roger Schlafly
    Archived post
    #13

    "PF Riley" <[email hidden]> wrote

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    That is a link to a UK Times article, with a copy of the article. (The Times charges a fee to get
    the article.) I suggest that you write a letter to the editor of the UK Times.


    You implied Bowditch could not find any lies on their website when he called them liars.

    That's right. Bowditch (aka ratbag) likes namecalling, but rarely has any substance to back
    himself up.

    Quoted message said:

    I found a lie on their website. It doesn't matter if they're quoting someone else or not. If they
    deliberately reproduce false material on their website, they are liars.

    If they are presenting a material statement that they know to false, then sure, you could say that
    they are liars. But the sentence that you question is a minor and insignificant misstatement in a
    regular newspaper story. Every major newspaper has misstatements like that every day. I post links
    all the time, but it doesn't mean that I have checked every single detail in them. Can I infer that
    you are a liar if I find some error in some article that you have cited?

    Report
  14. Happy Dog
    Archived post
    #14

    "Roger Schlafly" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    "PF Riley" <[email hidden]> wrote

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    That is a link to a UK Times article, with a copy of the article. (The Times charges a fee to
    get the article.) I suggest that you write a letter to the editor of the UK Times.


    You implied Bowditch could not find any lies on their website when he called them liars.

    That's right. Bowditch (aka ratbag) likes namecalling, but rarely has any substance to back
    himself up.

    Ok You go with that.

    Quoted message said:


    Quoted message said:

    I found a lie on their website. It doesn't matter if they're quoting someone else or not. If
    they deliberately reproduce false material on their website, they are liars.

    If they are presenting a material statement that they know to false, then sure, you could say that
    they are liars. But the sentence that you question is a minor and insignificant misstatement in a
    regular newspaper story. Every major newspaper has misstatements like that every day. I post links
    all the time, but it doesn't mean that I have checked every single detail in them. Can I infer
    that you are a liar if I find some error in some article that you have cited?

    If the article is presented as being true in and of itself, yes. And, you weasel, nobody was
    suggesting that a singular error in a cited article is the problem. In fact, it absolutely isn't.

    le moo

    Report
  15. Mark Probertjan
    Archived post
    #15

    "Jan" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    Subject: Re: Coalition for Safe Minds wins award From: Peter Bowditch [email hidden]
    Date: 1/3/2004 3:41 AM Pacific Standard Time Message-id:
    <[email hidden]>

    (Jan) said:

    >Subject: Coalition for Safe Minds wins award From: Peter Bowditch [email hidden] Date:
    >1/2/2004 1:37 PM Pacific Standard Time Message-id: <[email hidden]>
    >
    >The Coalition for Safe Minds was Highly Commended in the 2003 Millenium Project Awards

    Which is how Peter wastes his time.

    Jan

    You have already commented about this

    Yes, you keep making posts and wasting more time.

    Self referential, complaining about other people wasting time.

    Report
  16. Peter Bowditch
    Archived post
    #16
    Roger Schlafly said:

    "PF Riley" <[email hidden]> wrote

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    That is a link to a UK Times article, with a copy of the article. (The Times charges a fee to
    get the article.) I suggest that you write a letter to the editor of the UK Times.


    You implied Bowditch could not find any lies on their website when he called them liars.

    That's right. Bowditch (aka ratbag) likes namecalling, but rarely has any substance to back
    himself up.

    But he did in this case, didn't he, Roger?

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    I found a lie on their website. It doesn't matter if they're quoting someone else or not. If they
    deliberately reproduce false material on their website, they are liars.

    If they are presenting a material statement that they know to false, then sure, you could say that
    they are liars. But the sentence that you question is a minor and insignificant misstatement in a
    regular newspaper story. Every major newspaper has misstatements like that every day. I post links
    all the time, but it doesn't mean that I have checked every single detail in them. Can I infer that
    you are a liar if I find some error in some article that you have cited?

    They claim to be concerned about mercury. In their attack on mercury in vaccines (which has been
    removed from all children's vaccines anyway) they reproduce stories about mercury in vaccines which
    have never contained mercury. They know these vaccines have never contained mercury. They lie.

    --
    Peter Bowditch
    The Millenium Project ratbags.comrsoles
    The Green Light ratbags.comgreenlight
    and The New Improved Quintessence of the Loon with added Vitamins and C-Q10 ratbags.comloon
    To email me use my first name only at ratbags.com

    Report
  17. Roger Schlafly
    Archived post
    #17

    "Peter Bowditch" <[email hidden]> wrote

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    That's right. Bowditch (aka ratbag) likes namecalling, but rarely has any substance to back
    himself up.


    But he did in this case, didn't he, Roger?

    No, because you failed to point to any specific lie. Riley tried to do that, but you didn't.

    Quoted message said:

    They claim to be concerned about mercury. In their attack on mercury in vaccines (which has been
    removed from all children's vaccines anyway)

    More precisely, the amounts of mercury have been reduced in the current production of children's
    vaccines. Since you know better, and you call every misstatement a lie, I'll point out that you are
    lying here (by your own standards).

    Quoted message said:

    they reproduce stories about mercury in vaccines which have never contained mercury. They know
    these vaccines have never contained mercury. They lie.

    Did you read the article? It is a UK Times article about MMR in UK and related matters. It says
    twice that mercury is *not* in UK MMR. I don't know why you think that it is so important to say
    that mercury is not in MMR, but the article says it twice. See:
    safeminds.orguk times.html

    The UK Times article does have a couple of minor inaccuracies about US vaccines. Guess what -- so do
    a lot of other media stories, especially on peripheral facts about other countries.

    Report
  18. John
    Archived post
    #18

    Peter Bowditch <[email hidden]> wrote in message

    Quoted message said:

    They claim to be concerned about mercury. In their attack on mercury in vaccines (which has
    been removed from all children's vaccines anyway) they reproduce stories about mercury in
    vaccines which have never contained mercury. They know these vaccines have never contained
    mercury. They lie.

    Straw dog argument. MMR is just as, probably more toxic than the mercury vaccines so it sure beats
    me why anyone would want to lie about mercury being in MMR. It would benefit vaccinators if mercury
    was in MMR then they could say --it's all mercury nothing else, so we'll take it out and they will
    be safe again.

    It's just a desperate attempt to find fault in vaccine critics, which is bound to backfire when it
    draws attention to the fact MMR is toxic without mercury, but these bozos aren't too bright, they
    just run on emotions like hate in your case

    Report
  19. Mark Probertjan
    Archived post
    #19

    "Roger Schlafly" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    "Peter Bowditch" <[email hidden]> wrote

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    That's right. Bowditch (aka ratbag) likes namecalling, but rarely has any substance to back
    himself up.


    But he did in this case, didn't he, Roger?

    No, because you failed to point to any specific lie. Riley tried to do that, but you didn't.

    Quoted message said:

    They claim to be concerned about mercury. In their attack on mercury in vaccines (which has been
    removed from all children's vaccines anyway)

    More precisely, the amounts of mercury have been reduced in the current production of children's
    vaccines.

    Reduced implies that there is "some". One can get all kiddie vaccines in a thimerosal free version.
    You are deceptive.

    Since you know better,

    Quoted message said:

    and you call every misstatement a lie, I'll point out that you are lying here (by your own
    standards).

    See above.

    Report
  20. Jonathan Smith
    Archived post
    #20

    "Roger Schlafly" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

    Quoted message said:

    "Peter Bowditch" <[email hidden]> wrote

    Quoted message said:

    And how do I know that they are liars?

    Not because you found any lies. Only because you object to sites expressing opinions like these:

    We work aggressively with government agencies and legislators to facilitate the removal of
    mercury from all medical products. We strongly encourage research efforts to understand
    scientifically how mercury in these products is causing harm and how effective treatments can be
    developed. safeminds.orgsafeminds.org

    This is too funny - in your own defense of the anti-vac agenda, you quote this:

    "...to understand scientifically how mercury in these products is causing harm..."

    If you start with the premise - you'll be sure to prove it - all it takes is a bit of spinning.

    js

    Report

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