Ephedra Ban - ABC News

"MPressman" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Ephedra Users

Upset about the ban?

What's next? Are you stockpiling? Trying to get it elsewhere?

ABC News-20/20 is working on a report about Ephedra and what people are doing about the impending
ban. We would like to hear from you.

Please email Michael Pressman, producer, at

[email hidden]

Sending letters of thanks to the FDA.

"MPressman" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Ephedra Users

Upset about the ban?

What's next? Are you stockpiling? Trying to get it elsewhere?

ABC News-20/20 is working on a report about Ephedra and what people are doing about the impending
ban. We would like to hear from you.

Please email Michael Pressman, producer, at

[email hidden]

Thank you!!

Fernando Bernall, AP Integrative Therapy Center Saint Augustine, FL 32084

[posted and emailed]

"MPressman" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Ephedra Users

Upset about the ban?

What's next? Are you stockpiling? Trying to get it elsewhere?

ABC News-20/20 is working on a report about Ephedra and what people are doing about the impending
ban. We would like to hear from you.

You should report how this product was allowed on the market after similar products were banned in
1986. Report how the passing of the DSHEA in 1994 allowed them on the market again and the bodies
started piling up again.

You should get in touch with Robert Baratz M.D, president of the National Council Against
Health Fraud.

Telephone: (617) 332-3063 E-mail: <[email hidden]

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

ABC News-20/20 is working on a report about Ephedra and what people are doing about the
impending ban. We would like to hear from you.

Please email Michael Pressman, producer, at

[email hidden]

Sending letters of thanks to the FDA.

I'll be posting a huge list of ephedra substitutes... (of course most will be more dangerous than
ephedra itself, but that's what happens when you ban things!)

"Greg N" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

ABC News-20/20 is working on a report about Ephedra and what people

are

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

doing about the impending ban. We would like to hear from you.

Please email Michael Pressman, producer, at

[email hidden]

Sending letters of thanks to the FDA.

I'll be posting a huge list of ephedra substitutes... (of course most will be more dangerous than
ephedra itself, but that's what happens when you ban things!)

Send a copy to the FDA with the subject as:

"Next"

...along with tobacco and alcohol. Anth

"Mark ProbertJanuary 7, 2004" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Greg N" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

>
>
> ABC News-20/20 is working on a report about Ephedra and what people

are

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> doing about the impending ban. We would like to hear from you.
>
>
>
> Please email Michael Pressman, producer, at
>
> [email hidden]

Sending letters of thanks to the FDA.

I'll be posting a huge list of ephedra substitutes... (of course most will be more dangerous
than ephedra itself, but that's what happens when you ban things!)

Send a copy to the FDA with the subject as:

"Next"

If stupid people cannot use it safely, why not ban stupid people?
"Nana Weedkiller" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

[posted and emailed]

"MPressman" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Ephedra Users

Upset about the ban?

What's next? Are you stockpiling? Trying to get it elsewhere?

ABC News-20/20 is working on a report about Ephedra and what people are doing about the
impending ban. We would like to hear from you.

You should report how this product was allowed on the market after similar products were banned in
1986. Report how the passing of the DSHEA in 1994 allowed them on the market again and the bodies
started piling up again.

You should get in touch with Robert Baratz M.D, president of the National Council Against
Health Fraud.

Telephone: (617) 332-3063 E-mail: <[email hidden]

"mdd" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

If stupid people cannot use it safely, why not ban stupid people?

Why do you ASSume that all of those that died or had serious adverse events (around 17K known
people), that they were stupid? I know of one person who had a not-too-serious adverse event and he
is far from stupid.

Quoted message said:

"Nana Weedkiller" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

[posted and emailed]

"MPressman" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Ephedra Users

Upset about the ban?

What's next? Are you stockpiling? Trying to get it elsewhere?

ABC News-20/20 is working on a report about Ephedra and what people

are

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

doing about the impending ban. We would like to hear from you.

You should report how this product was allowed on the market after similar products were banned
in 1986. Report how the passing of

the

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

DSHEA in 1994 allowed them on the market again and the bodies started piling up again.

You should get in touch with Robert Baratz M.D, president of the National Council Against Health
Fraud.

Telephone: (617) 332-3063 E-mail: <[email hidden]>

"Mark ProbertJanuary 8, 2004" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

"mdd" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

If stupid people cannot use it safely, why not ban stupid people?

Why do you ASSume that all of those that died or had serious adverse events (around 17K known
people), that they were stupid? I know of one person who had a not-too-serious adverse event and
he is far from stupid.

Maybe your friend is just a little bit stupid. Or maybe the adverse effects are directly related to
the stupidity of those who use it. For example:

If you're overweighted, are lazy, eat lots of cookies and milk, and then try some stupid over the
counter supplement with ephedra and caffeine, and here let's remember that it was never ephedra by
itself that has cause the side effects. There were other substances such as caffeine found in green
tea. Imagine the effect of caffeine and ephedra together. Hey, that's better than mama's little
yellow helpers! Hey, is cafeeine being banned also? Hell no! the coffe industry is kind of powerful.
So, and I digressed, the stupid customer takes this supplement, well he/she gets stupid results!

Now, you've got some stupid athlete. That's right, just cause you can pitch a ball really fast don't
make that smart. And you want to stay in "shape" and take some stupid over the counter supplement,
which the stupid guy over the GNC's counter said it was good for him, what do you think is going to
happen? You got it! Stupid side effects.

Now we have your friend, who is far from stupid. He's still stupid but far from it. You see,
stupidity is a matter of distance. Some are close and others far. Stupid nonetheless, and he takes
just a little ephedra. He then reads the directions and sees that there's caffeine and other stuff
he can't really pronounce, and says "hey, what am I, Stupid? Hell no! am far from stupid. Think I'll
stop! So he, because he's far from stupid (read-a little stupid) stops on time and only gets, as you
said "not too serious adverse events"

Hell too much water is bad for you! Let's ban the damn thing!

smh.com.au1055010871581.htmlOpen ↗

So Mark, before you make some stupid statement about the subject. Do some research. Don't leave it
at the hands of the stupid folks at the FDA. Think for yourself; it would be stupid of you not to.

Stupidly Yours,

Pete

"pete" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Mark ProbertJanuary 8, 2004" <[email hidden]> wrote

in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

"mdd" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

If stupid people cannot use it safely, why not ban stupid people?

Why do you ASSume that all of those that died or had serious adverse

events

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

(around 17K known people), that they were stupid? I know of one person

who

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

had a not-too-serious adverse event and he is far from stupid.

Maybe your friend is just a little bit stupid. Or maybe the adverse effects are directly related
to the stupidity of those who use it. For example:

If you're overweighted, are lazy, eat lots of cookies and milk, and then try some stupid over the
counter supplement with ephedra and caffeine, and here let's remember that it was never ephedra by
itself that has cause the side effects. There were other substances such as caffeine found in
green tea. Imagine the effect of caffeine and ephedra together. Hey, that's better than mama's
little yellow helpers! Hey, is cafeeine being banned also? Hell no! the coffe industry is kind of
powerful. So, and I digressed, the stupid customer takes this supplement, well he/she gets stupid
results!

Now, you've got some stupid athlete. That's right, just cause you can pitch a ball really fast
don't make that smart. And you want to stay in "shape" and take some stupid over the counter
supplement, which the stupid guy over the GNC's counter said it was good for him, what do you
think is going to happen? You got it! Stupid side effects.

Now we have your friend, who is far from stupid. He's still stupid but far from it. You see,
stupidity is a matter of distance. Some are close and others far. Stupid nonetheless, and he takes
just a little ephedra. He then reads the directions and sees that there's caffeine and other stuff
he can't really pronounce, and says "hey, what am I, Stupid? Hell no! am far from stupid. Think
I'll stop! So he, because he's far from stupid (read-a little stupid) stops on time and only gets,
as you said "not too serious adverse events"

Hell too much water is bad for you! Let's ban the damn thing!

smh.com.au1055010871581.htmlOpen ↗

So Mark, before you make some stupid statement about the subject. Do some research. Don't leave it
at the hands of the stupid folks at the FDA. Think for yourself; it would be stupid of you not to.

Stupidly Yours,

After reading your post, I take it back. Stupidity is rampant.

"Mark ProbertJanuary 8, 2004" <[email hidden]> wrote in

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

So Mark, before you make some stupid statement about the subject. Do some research. Don't leave
it at the hands of the stupid folks at the FDA. Think for yourself; it would be stupid of you
not to.

Stupidly Yours,

After reading your post, I take it back. Stupidity is rampant.

Thanks, good to see you come around and I'm glad to help. 🙂)

Pete

Please educate me:

Instead of banning products, why can't the FDA mandate that unregulated products be packaged with a
bright red warning label saying "USE AT YOUR OWN RISK" and an insert listing the risks just like
they require for prescription meds? And as with tobacco and alcohol, make them dispensed by a clerk
that makes sure you are an adult and not an idiot.

From what I've read, there are many more deaths due to Tylenol yet it's still legal to buy over
the counter!

Gary

"Nana Weedkiller" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

[posted and emailed]

"MPressman" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Ephedra Users

Upset about the ban?

What's next? Are you stockpiling? Trying to get it elsewhere?

ABC News-20/20 is working on a report about Ephedra and what people are doing about the
impending ban. We would like to hear from you.

You should report how this product was allowed on the market after similar products were banned in
1986. Report how the passing of the DSHEA in 1994 allowed them on the market again and the bodies
started piling up again.

You should get in touch with Robert Baratz M.D, president of the National Council Against
Health Fraud.

Telephone: (617) 332-3063 E-mail: <[email hidden]

Gary said:

Please educate me:

Instead of banning products, why can't the FDA mandate that unregulated products be packaged with
a bright red warning label saying "USE AT YOUR OWN RISK" ...

Because the natural progress of things is for liberty to yield and government to gain ground.

-- Ron ron.dotson.netron.dotson.netOpen ↗

"Gary" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Please educate me:

Instead of banning products, why can't the FDA mandate that unregulated products be packaged with
a bright red warning label saying "USE AT YOUR

OWN

Quoted message said:

RISK" and an insert listing the risks just like they require for prescription meds?

The FDA is hamstrung by a law, DSHEA, passed through the lobbying efforts of the dietary
supplement industry, that prevents just this. Thus, the FDA must wait until the dead bodies are
stacked up like firewood before they can act, and the only act they can do is to yank the
chemcials off of the shelf.

DSHEA does not require the dietary supplement manufacturers to sumbits reports of adverse events to
the FDA. The industry is fighting tooth and nail to prevent amending the law to require the
maufacturers to submit such reports. IOW, the industry still wants to hide out as long as possible
and rake in their gadzillions of dollars selling murderous brews.

Quoted message said:

And as with tobacco and alcohol, make them dispensed by a clerk that makes sure you are an adult
and not an idiot.

When you invent an 'idiotometer' you will be a very rich man.

Quoted message said:

From what I've read, there are many more deaths due to Tylenol yet it's still legal to buy over
the counter!

Can you post it?

And, Tylenol, when taken as on the package is not deadly. The supplement manufacturers were so
sloppy in their quality control that some of the ephedra pills contains 3X the listed amount, so,
someone who was following direction could get a serious dose and wind up in thehospital or morgue.

You guys are stupid. How many people died last year from Epehdra? 300?? Thousands die from Aspirin
and other OTC drugs like that every year, but the DEA nail this one

"[email hidden]" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

You guys are stupid. How many people died last year from Epehdra? 300?? Thousands die from Aspirin
and other OTC drugs like that every year, but the DEA nail this one

When calling someone stupid, it is best not to point out that you may be making a self-
referential post.

It was not the DEA but the FDA.

"Mark ProbertJanuary 11, 2004" <[email hidden]> wrote
in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Gary" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Please educate me:

Instead of banning products, why can't the FDA mandate that unregulated products be packaged
with a bright red warning label saying "USE AT YOUR

OWN

Quoted message said:

RISK" and an insert listing the risks just like they require for prescription meds?

The FDA is hamstrung by a law, DSHEA, passed through the lobbying efforts

of

Quoted message said:

the dietary supplement industry, that prevents just this. Thus, the FDA

must

Quoted message said:

wait until the dead bodies are stacked up like firewood before they can

act,

Quoted message said:

and the only act they can do is to yank the chemcials off of the shelf.

DSHEA does not require the dietary supplement manufacturers to sumbits reports of adverse events
to the FDA. The industry is fighting tooth and nail to prevent amending the law to require the
maufacturers to submit

such

Quoted message said:

reports. IOW, the industry still wants to hide out as long as possible and rake in their
gadzillions of dollars selling murderous brews.

Quoted message said:

And as with tobacco and alcohol, make them dispensed by a clerk that makes sure you are an adult
and not an idiot.

When you invent an 'idiotometer' you will be a very rich man.

Quoted message said:

From what I've read, there are many more deaths due to Tylenol yet it's still legal to buy over
the counter!

Can you post it?

And, Tylenol, when taken as on the package is not deadly. The supplement manufacturers were so
sloppy in their quality control that some of the ephedra pills contains 3X the listed amount, so,
someone who was following direction could get a serious dose and wind up in thehospital or morgue.

Then the problem is with the manufacturers, not the product? Why not close those manufacturers? Why
ban the product? It is used for weight control, no? Might we follow the money? A lot to be made in
the weight control biz in the US.

"mdd" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Mark ProbertJanuary 11, 2004" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Gary" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Please educate me:

Instead of banning products, why can't the FDA mandate that

unregulated

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

products be packaged with a bright red warning label saying "USE AT

YOUR

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

OWN

Quoted message said:

RISK" and an insert listing the risks just like they require for prescription meds?

The FDA is hamstrung by a law, DSHEA, passed through the lobbying

efforts

Quoted message said:

of

Quoted message said:

the dietary supplement industry, that prevents just this. Thus, the FDA

must

Quoted message said:

wait until the dead bodies are stacked up like firewood before they can

act,

Quoted message said:

and the only act they can do is to yank the chemcials off of the shelf.

DSHEA does not require the dietary supplement manufacturers to sumbits reports of adverse events
to the FDA. The industry is fighting tooth and nail to prevent amending the law to require the
maufacturers to submit

such

Quoted message said:

reports. IOW, the industry still wants to hide out as long as possible

and

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

rake in their gadzillions of dollars selling murderous brews.

Quoted message said:

And as with tobacco and alcohol, make them dispensed by a clerk that makes sure you are an
adult and not an idiot.

When you invent an 'idiotometer' you will be a very rich man.

Quoted message said:

From what I've read, there are many more deaths due to Tylenol yet

it's

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

still legal to buy over the counter!

Can you post it?

And, Tylenol, when taken as on the package is not deadly. The supplement manufacturers were so
sloppy in their quality control that some of the ephedra pills contains 3X the listed amount,
so, someone who was

following

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

direction could get a serious dose and wind up in thehospital or morgue.

Then the problem is with the manufacturers, not the product? Why not close those manufacturers?
Why ban the product? It is used for weight control,

no?

Quoted message said:

Might we follow the money? A lot to be made in the weight control biz in

the

Quoted message said:

US.

The problem is with the law. The FDA is hamstrung and the manufacturers want it that way, and that
is why they are fighting the amendments so hard.

"mdd" <[email hidden]> wrote in :"]news:[email hidden]:

Quoted message said:

"Mark ProbertJanuary 11, 2004" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

The FDA is hamstrung by a law, DSHEA, passed through the lobbying efforts

of

Quoted message said:

the dietary supplement industry, that prevents just this. Thus, the FDA

must

Quoted message said:

wait until the dead bodies are stacked up like firewood before they can

act,

Quoted message said:

and the only act they can do is to yank the chemcials off of the shelf.

DSHEA does not require the dietary supplement manufacturers to sumbits reports of adverse events
to the FDA. The industry is fighting tooth and nail to prevent amending the law to require the
maufacturers to submit

such

Quoted message said:

reports. IOW, the industry still wants to hide out as long as possible and rake in their
gadzillions of dollars selling murderous brews.

[snip]

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

And, Tylenol, when taken as on the package is not deadly. The supplement manufacturers were so
sloppy in their quality control that some of the ephedra pills contains 3X the listed amount, so,
someone who was following direction could get a serious dose and wind up in thehospital or
morgue.

Then the problem is with the manufacturers, not the product? Why not close those manufacturers?
Why ban the product? It is used for weight control, no? Might we follow the money? A lot to be
made in the weight control biz in the US.

Mark answered your "why not" above. Under the DSHEA, the FDA simply *doesn't have* the option you
want it to exercise. It has no authority to do so. Its only legal options are to do nothing, or to
order ephedra off the market period. It does *not have* the authority to require manufacturers of
ephedra supplements to follow good manufacturing practices and to shut down manufacturers who don't
follow them. It does *not have* the authority to require package inserts or warning levels. It does
*not have* the authority to regulate dietary supplements for purity or dosage level. It *cannot* do
any of those things unless Congress rewrites the DSHEA.

The FDA is an agency of the executive branch of the US government. Under our Constitution, federal
agencies can't simply do as they please, even if doing so would be considered the Right Thing by
most people. They can only do what Congress authorizes them to do. For the most part, that's a Good
Thing; our government is supposed to be "a government of laws, not men." But in this case, it means
that the FDA has its hands tied behind its back by special-interest legislation. I wouldn't put it
past the authors of the DSHEA to have deliberately intended that the only possible regulation of
supplements would be extremely draconian and thus so unpopular as to stir up public sentiment
against any such attempts.

Once again, the DSHEA *prevents* the FDA from taking action against the "bad apples." I suggest you
complain to Senator Hatch's office.