High protein vegan diet

Belial <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

A food question on a.f.v .. don't be too shocked now ;-)

I've just started to get into weightlifting a little more seriously, and I'm wondering if there's
any good high protein vegan meals around.

The last time I checked my Carb:Protein:Fat ratio was around 60:25:15. I'd prefer it to be more
like 40:50:10, but just about every meal I have has atleast double the amount of carbs as protein.

The majority of my protein now comes from a soy protein powder that I have of a morning. If I'm
going to up my protein I'd prefer to do it through meals rather than just adding more suppliments.

Ben

These folks may be of assistance: veganbodybuilding.orgveganbasics.htmOpen ↗

Belial said:

A food question on a.f.v .. don't be too shocked now ;-)

I've just started to get into weightlifting a little more seriously, and I'm wondering if there's
any good high protein vegan meals around.

Eat more soy-based products, but check labels for added fats and sugars.

Quoted message said:

The last time I checked my Carb:Protein:Fat ratio was around 60:25:15. I'd prefer it to be more
like 40:50:10, but just about every meal I have has atleast double the amount of carbs as protein.

your kidneys? Even the Zone Diet, which is high protein, only recommends 30% of calories to come
as protein.

news.bbc.co.uk2859733.stmOpen ↗ drmcdougall.comdebate.htmlOpen ↗
www2.uiuc.eduAtkins.htmlOpen ↗ news.harvard.edu09Open ↗
kidney.html

As long as you're vegan, your diet is going to be carb-laden. That's because your diet is plant-
based. It has a lot going for it, but if you want more protein you'll probably have to add in egg
whites or dairy-based foods (or fish, chicken breasts, etc). It all boils down to what your
priorities are and if good health is more important to you than looking a certain way.

Quoted message said:

The majority of my protein now comes from a soy protein powder that I have of a morning. If I'm
going to up my protein I'd prefer to do it through meals rather than just adding more suppliments.

I'm all for getting your nutrition through regular meals rather than supplementation, but I really
recommend you do a little more research into protein intake as it relates to health problems.
Exercise is a wonderful thing, too, but it should add to health and not detract from it. Frankly,
sounds like your priorities are out of whack.

usual suspect said:

I'm all for getting your nutrition through regular meals rather than supplementation, but I really
recommend you do a little more research into protein intake as it relates to health problems.
Exercise is a wonderful thing, too, but it should add to health and not detract from it. Frankly,
sounds like your priorities are out of whack.

Thanks for all the advice 🙂

Just to clarify, I'm not particularly image-conscious. I've started to take weight-lifting more
seriously only because I enjoy it, not because I wanna turn into an ape 🙂 Increasing protein was
because if I'm going the work I want to get the most out of it, and most things I've read seem to
say you need heaps of protein to do that.

I thought 50% was a little high.. I'll read up on the info you have me.

As for priorities.. I'm a vegetarian who's slowly moving towards vegan. I'm not about to go on an
animal eating rampage just so I can bulk up - I just wanted to know if there was a "vegan" way to do
it. Pretty much every vegetarian recipe I can find that has high protein also has high fat and a
whole lot of dairy. Guess it's supplients and a whole lot of soy milk and soygurt for me...

Ben

- coming of age during the plague of Regan and Bush watching capitalism gun down democracy it had a
funny effect on me, I guess

Ani DiFranco

Belial said:

As for priorities.. I'm a vegetarian who's slowly moving towards vegan. I'm not about to go on an
animal eating rampage just so I can bulk up - I just wanted to know if there was a "vegan" way to
do it. Pretty much every vegetarian recipe I can find that has high protein also has high fat and a
whole lot of dairy. Guess it's supplients and a whole lot of soy milk and soygurt for me...

Ben

It's a real trick for vegans who do muscular exercise to get the protein in to support those
muscles. As you have found, a lot of times it comes back to soy. And too bad if you don't like soy
all the time! However peas are also supposed to be good. There's a protein supplement powder by
Naturade called "Veg Protein Booster " that includes pea and rice protein, although it is still
mostly soy in there. And then there are nuts and beans. You have to be careful with nuts because you
don't want a bunch of fat in your diet, but choose the right nuts, and keep your other caloric
intake down and you might be okay I bet!

Belial said:

Quoted message said:

I'm all for getting your nutrition through regular meals rather than supplementation, but I really
recommend you do a little more research into protein intake as it relates to health problems.
Exercise is a wonderful thing, too, but it should add to health and not detract from it. Frankly,
sounds like your priorities are out of whack.

Thanks for all the advice 🙂

You're welcome.

Quoted message said:

Just to clarify, I'm not particularly image-conscious. I've started to take weight-lifting more
seriously only because I enjoy it, not because I wanna turn into an ape 🙂 Increasing protein was
because if I'm going the work I want to get the most out of it, and most things I've read seem to
say you need heaps of protein to do that.

"Getting the most out of it" is relative. I still hear you saying that you want to add bulk even
though you say you're not particularly image-conscious. If your goal is good health, then bulking up
is irrelevant and consuming a lot more protein is beside the point (not to mention pretty hard on
your body).

The mere act of resistance training is very beneficial, helping to strengthen connective tissues,
bone, not to mention increasing your metabolism. Those things are all healthy, whether you add
additional protein to your diet or not. I applaud such effort.

Is "bulking up" inherently healthy, though? I don't think it is. You could make a case that adding x
amount of lean tissue will improve your metabolism, but I'd counter that y amount plus cardio work
will speed it up even faster and offer more health benefits. Going for protein overkill is unhealthy
in either case. It all goes back to your real goal: are you doing it for health or for appearance?

You're going to have a healthy appearance just from working out with regularity and some measure of
intensity. I guess that's not enough for some people.

Quoted message said:

I thought 50% was a little high.. I'll read up on the info you have me.

Good deal. I'd also encourage you to do your own research. The links I gave aren't even the tip of
an iceberg.

Quoted message said:

As for priorities.. I'm a vegetarian who's slowly moving towards vegan. I'm not about to go on
an animal eating rampage just so I can bulk up - I just wanted to know if there was a "vegan"
way to do it.

Only in a most unnatural way, by focusing on protein isolates from soy, nuts, and other plant-based
foods. Remember that soy is loaded with phytoestrogens. Estrogens in any form aren't beneficial to
bodybuilders since they "soften" things. I know guys at my gym who won't touch soy at all because of
that. If you want the big, hard look, you'll have to go with the non-fat dairy products, and
probably skinless chicken and turkey breast meat as well as low-fat cuts like tenderloin.

Quoted message said:

Pretty much every vegetarian recipe I can find that has high protein also has high fat and a whole
lot of dairy. Guess it's supplients and a whole lot of soy milk and soygurt for me...

That's a lot of phytoestrogen, too.

bodybuilding.comsatter6.htmOpen ↗
cheapbodybuildingsupplements.comsoyestrogen.shtmlOpen ↗ t-t-Open ↗
mag.com/articles/185soy.html

I don't agree with all the conclusions in the above articles, but I do agree that overconsumption of
soy, like any other food, can have some nasty consequences. That's particularly true the more
processed foods are -- and soy protein powders concentrate the protein isolates AND isoflavones.
Isoflavones are estrogenic. Please do your own research on all this. Estrogens soften, they're
feminizing hormones. You already get them from the environment.

That's another reason why I've not exactly been encouraging of your dietary goals, but I do
encourage you to keep lifting. Keep your focus on what's *healthy*, not on the appearance factor. I
do wish you well.

"Belial" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

usual suspect said:

I'm all for getting your nutrition through regular meals rather than supplementation, but I
really recommend you do a little more research into protein intake as it relates to health
problems. Exercise is a wonderful thing, too, but it should add to health and not detract from
it. Frankly, sounds like your priorities are out of whack.

Thanks for all the advice 🙂

Just to clarify, I'm not particularly image-conscious. I've started to take weight-lifting more
seriously only because I enjoy it, not because I wanna turn into an ape 🙂 Increasing protein was
because if I'm going the work I want to get the most out of it, and most things I've read seem to
say you need heaps of protein to do that.

Maybe it would help to clarify what you want out of weight lifting. If it's enjoyment, as you
mentioned, then there's not as much need to worry about protein:carb:fat ratios. If by "get the most
out of it", you mean to bulk up then diet is important, but there are other factors to consider:
age, body type, various repitition and resting strategies, etc. I am almost 45 years old, 6'2" tall,
160 lbs. - a "hardgainer" by most accounts. My interest is to maintain good health through
vegetarian diet, weight bearing exercises, cardio exercises, inline skating, hiking, biking, cross
country skiing, and generally lots of activity.

Quoted message said:

I thought 50% was a little high.. I'll read up on the info you have me.

As for priorities.. I'm a vegetarian who's slowly moving towards vegan. I'm not about to go on an
animal eating rampage just so I can bulk up - I just wanted to know if there was a "vegan" way to
do it. Pretty much every vegetarian recipe I can find that has high protein also has high fat and
a whole lot of dairy. Guess it's supplients and a whole lot of soy milk and soygurt for me...

I have a few books on the subject. I like "The Vegetarian Sports Nutrition Guide" by Lisa Dorfman
the best. There are some recipes included and lots of personal accounts by famous vegetarian sports
figures, many of them vegan.

"usual suspect" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Belial said:

Quoted message said:

I'm all for getting your nutrition through regular meals rather than supplementation, but I
really recommend you do a little more research into protein intake as it relates to health
problems. Exercise is a wonderful thing, too, but it should add to health and not detract from
it. Frankly, sounds like your priorities are out of whack.

Thanks for all the advice 🙂

You're welcome.

Quoted message said:

Just to clarify, I'm not particularly image-conscious. I've started to take weight-lifting more
seriously only because I enjoy it, not because I wanna turn into an ape 🙂 Increasing protein
was because if I'm going the work I want to get the most out of it, and most things I've read

seem

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

to say you need heaps of protein to do that.

"Getting the most out of it" is relative. I still hear you saying that you want to add bulk even
though you say you're not particularly image-conscious. If your goal is good health, then bulking
up is irrelevant and consuming a lot more protein is beside the point (not to mention pretty hard
on your body).

The mere act of resistance training is very beneficial, helping to strengthen connective tissues,
bone, not to mention increasing your metabolism. Those things are all healthy, whether you add
additional protein to your diet or not. I applaud such effort.

Is "bulking up" inherently healthy, though? I don't think it is. You could make a case that adding
x amount of lean tissue will improve your metabolism, but I'd counter that y amount plus cardio
work will speed it up even faster and offer more health benefits. Going for protein overkill is
unhealthy in either case. It all goes back to your real goal: are you doing it for health or for
appearance?

I don't think sulking up and cardio is mutually exclusive although lots of meat eating lifters would
laugh at my cardio- from my experience you can do both-but I do have borderline high blood
pressure(so does my father) but am a bit bulked up--personally I think a bit of lifting and running
is wonderful-gets those endorphins going and you look and feel wonderful-it is nice having big arms
and chest--ha ha..It might a bit slower on veg diet but I have always been one...for serious
competitive bulking I don't know.... Michael

Quoted message said:

You're going to have a healthy appearance just from working out with regularity and some measure
of intensity. I guess that's not enough for some people.

Quoted message said:

I thought 50% was a little high.. I'll read up on the info you have me.

Good deal. I'd also encourage you to do your own research. The links I gave aren't even the tip of
an iceberg.

Quoted message said:

As for priorities.. I'm a vegetarian who's slowly moving towards vegan. I'm not about to go on
an animal eating rampage just so I can bulk up -

I

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

just wanted to know if there was a "vegan" way to do it.

Only in a most unnatural way, by focusing on protein isolates from soy, nuts, and other plant-
based foods. Remember that soy is loaded with phytoestrogens. Estrogens in any form aren't
beneficial to bodybuilders since they "soften" things. I know guys at my gym who won't touch soy
at all because of that. If you want the big, hard look, you'll have to go with the non-fat dairy
products, and probably skinless chicken and turkey breast meat as well as low-fat cuts like
tenderloin.

Quoted message said:

Pretty much every vegetarian recipe I can find that has high protein also has high fat and

a

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

whole lot of dairy. Guess it's supplients and a whole lot of soy milk

and

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

soygurt for me...

That's a lot of phytoestrogen, too.

bodybuilding.comsatter6.htmOpen ↗
cheapbodybuildingsupplements.comsoyestrogen.shtmlOpen ↗ t-t-Open ↗
mag.com/articles/185soy.html

I don't agree with all the conclusions in the above articles, but I do agree that overconsumption
of soy, like any other food, can have some nasty consequences. That's particularly true the more
processed foods are -- and soy protein powders concentrate the protein isolates AND isoflavones.
Isoflavones are estrogenic. Please do your own research on all this. Estrogens soften, they're
feminizing hormones. You already get them from the environment.

That's another reason why I've not exactly been encouraging of your dietary goals, but I do
encourage you to keep lifting. Keep your focus on what's *healthy*, not on the appearance factor.
I do wish you well.

Michael Balarama said:

Quoted message said:

"Getting the most out of it" is relative. I still hear you saying that you want to add bulk even
though you say you're not particularly image-conscious. If your goal is good health, then bulking
up is irrelevant and consuming a lot more protein is beside the point (not to mention pretty hard
on your body).

The mere act of resistance training is very beneficial, helping to strengthen connective tissues,
bone, not to mention increasing your metabolism. Those things are all healthy, whether you add
additional protein to your diet or not. I applaud such effort.

Is "bulking up" inherently healthy, though? I don't think it is. You could make a case that adding
x amount of lean tissue will improve your metabolism, but I'd counter that y amount plus cardio
work will speed it up even faster and offer more health benefits. Going for protein overkill is
unhealthy in either case. It all goes back to your real goal: are you doing it for health or for
appearance?

I don't think sulking up and cardio is mutually exclusive

They're not mutually exclusive, which is why I recommend both resistance training and cardio
together. I think too many people emphasize bulking up at the expense of cardio work. It's
especially true with us men.

Take a look at longevity of football players, bodybuilders, powerlifters, etc. Compare that to
people who play tennis, run, cycle, etc. There's a pretty stark difference in longevity. The main
differences are body size, body weight, and amount of cardio-pulmonary conditioning.

Quoted message said:

although lots of meat eating lifters would laugh at my cardio- from my experience you can do both-
but I do have borderline high blood pressure(so does my father)

Cardio activity is strongly recommended for controlling hypertension. I don't know what kind of
cardio you do, but every little bit helps. A healthy and well-conditioned heart should mean more to
someone than a bulked-up physique.

Quoted message said:

but am a bit bulked up--personally I think a bit of lifting and running is wonderful-gets those
endorphins going and you look and feel wonderful-it is nice having big arms and chest--ha ha..It
might a bit slower on veg diet but I have always been one...for serious competitive bulking I
don't know....

I guess my main point to Ben is that a healthy diet combined with healthy exercise will produce
a healthy person. Bulking up is simply about aesthetics, not about improving health (aside from
the fact that increasing lean body mass speeds up base metabolism -- which occurs during
resistance training anyway). In essence, bulking is a matter of overeating during training.
Overeating isn't really healthy unless one has a medical reason for doing so. Bodybuilding just
isn't a medical reason.

And you raise an important issue with respect to time: healthy habits should occur for life. Those
habits will lead to a healthy body and healthy life. Concentrating on fast gains by overconsuming a
diet lacking in variety is an unwise and potentially unhealthy endeavor -- particularly when one
food (soy) the OP is considering overeating has effects like softening, lowering testosterone, and
generally feminizing his body, which ultimately may be incongruent with his bulky goals. Some soy is
okay -- even beneficial -- but too much of anything is bad.

usual suspect said:

I guess my main point to Ben is that a healthy diet combined with healthy exercise will produce
a healthy person. Bulking up is simply about aesthetics, not about improving health (aside from
the fact that increasing lean body mass speeds up base metabolism -- which occurs during
resistance training anyway). In essence, bulking is a matter of overeating during training.
Overeating isn't really healthy unless one has a medical reason for doing so. Bodybuilding just
isn't a medical reason.

You've got some good points, and have made me question my goals (which is always a good thing!). I
guess I'm looking at it like this: I've always been relatively bulky, regardless of diet, exercise
etc. Not obese (except for a couple of years in uni 🙂 ) but thick-chested etc. So I figured that I
may as well go with my general body base and turn it into something that looks a little better.

BUT, that being said, what I'm after from weightlifting and is basically strength and fitness, not
looks. Looking better is a bonus. I already ride to work a few times a week, but I don't enjoy that
all that much - it's more a form of transport that has the bonus of being healthy. I actually enjoy
weights though, so I figured that would be a good place to focus my energy.

Quoted message said:

And you raise an important issue with respect to

time: healthy habits

Quoted message said:

should occur for life. Those habits will lead to a healthy body and healthy life. Concentrating
on fast gains by overconsuming a diet lacking in variety is an unwise and potentially unhealthy
endeavor -- particularly when one food (soy) the OP is considering overeating has effects like
softening, lowering testosterone, and generally feminizing his body, which ultimately may be
incongruent with his bulky goals. Some soy is okay -- even beneficial -- but too much of
anything is bad.

This is all stuff I hadn't considered - thanks again.

Ben

- coming of age during the plague of Regan and Bush watching capitalism gun down democracy it had a
funny effect on me, I guess

Ani DiFranco

Belial said:

You've got some good points, and have made me question my goals (which is always a good thing!). I
guess I'm looking at it like this: I've always been relatively bulky, regardless of diet, exercise
etc. Not obese (except for a couple of years in uni 🙂 ) but thick-chested etc. So I figured that
I may as well go with my general body base and turn it into something that looks a little better.

BUT, that being said, what I'm after from weightlifting and is basically strength and fitness, not
looks. Looking better is a bonus. I already ride to work a few times a week, but I don't enjoy
that all that much - it's more a form of transport that has the bonus of being healthy. I actually
enjoy weights though, so I figured that would be a good place to focus my energy.

Okay. I think you can make solid strength and fitness gains by eating a normal, well-balanced
diet. You'll also be a lot better off in the long run. Protein by itself won't make you stronger
or more fit.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

And you raise an important issue with respect to

time: healthy habits

Quoted message said:

should occur for life. Those habits will lead to a healthy body and healthy life. Concentrating
on fast gains by overconsuming a diet lacking in variety is an unwise and potentially unhealthy
endeavor -- particularly when one food (soy) the OP is considering overeating has effects like
softening, lowering testosterone, and generally feminizing his body, which ultimately may be
incongruent with his bulky goals. Some soy is okay -- even beneficial -- but too much of
anything is bad.

This is all stuff I hadn't considered - thanks again.

You're welcome, and I still wish you well.