The Bonk/over eating/winter

"Peter Rollason" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
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Quoted message said:

I have noticed I seemed plagued by the bonk in the winter months - today I had 2 breakfasts, did
around 40 miles, yet still got that dreaded cold sweat, and really having to concentrate -
something else I have noticed is that I seem to be eating loads ?

Well, I just did 30 miles last night and another 20 this afternoon with only an energy drink, so I
don't know what is happening in your case, unless you have some mighty serious hills on your ride.

--
Simon Mason Anlaby East Yorkshire. 53°44'N 0°26'W simonmason.karoo.netsimonmason.karoo.netOpen ↗

Don't get me wrong - I ain't the fitest bloke in the world - I only tend to get out on Sundays. I am
39, 12st - do other sports, such as Karate, & Circuit training - In the summer I am fine - I just
wonder why it seems to happen in winter.

Pete.

"Simon Mason" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Peter Rollason" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I have noticed I seemed plagued by the bonk in the winter months - today

I

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

had 2 breakfasts, did around 40 miles, yet still got that dreaded cold sweat, and really having
to concentrate - something else I have noticed

is

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

that I seem to be eating loads ?

Well, I just did 30 miles last night and another 20 this afternoon with
only an energy drink, so I don't know what is happening in your case,

unless

Quoted message said:

you have some mighty serious hills on your ride.

--
Simon Mason Anlaby East Yorkshire. 53°44'N 0°26'W simonmason.karoo.netsimonmason.karoo.netOpen ↗

"Peter Rollason" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Don't get me wrong - I ain't the fitest bloke in the world - I only tend

to

Quoted message said:

get out on Sundays. I am 39, 12st - do other sports, such as Karate, & Circuit training - In the
summer I am fine - I just wonder why it seems

to

Quoted message said:

happen in winter.

Pete.

If anything Peter, things seem to be easer for me in winter as I don't get dehydrated like I do in
summer. If you are only a Sunday rider then perhaps that could be the problem. As I commute by bike
as well, I am covering about 500 miles a month, so I am probably fairly fit.

Indeed when I first started cycling five years ago at age 40, 30 miles was a big effort and I had
cakes, bananas and energy bars to get me through. But honestly, last night in freezing conditions
after 30 miles, I was breathing through my nose only and riding was very easy. I think it's due to
getting the miles in day after day.
--
Simon Mason Anlaby East Yorkshire. 53°44'N 0°26'W simonmason.karoo.netsimonmason.karoo.netOpen ↗

"Peter Rollason" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I have noticed I seemed plagued by the bonk in the winter months - today I had 2 breakfasts, did
around 40 miles, yet still got that dreaded cold sweat, and really having to concentrate -
something else I have noticed is that I seem to be eating loads ?

Any thoughts

No jokes

Pete.

My guess is that you're underestimating the bodies requirement for water, after all, it's bloody
cold and you don't feel like drinking as much, right? Get it down you son! ;-) You need just as much
water regardless of the outside air temp, in fact, I think there is a curious situation in cold
weather when your body exhales *more* moisture in cold than in warm weather.

Dave.

Quoted message said:

I have noticed I seemed plagued by the bonk in the winter months - today I had 2 breakfasts, did
around 40 miles, yet still got that dreaded cold sweat, and really having to concentrate -
something else I have noticed is that I seem to be eating loads ?

Any thoughts

You need to eat *while* you're riding.

It's all very well chucking down 1000 kcal for breakfast, but that is not by any means all going to
be immediately available to you as you ride; and doing 40 miles at a reasonable pace (18 to 20mph
average) is going to use up about 1200 kcal - and that is hitting the limit of how much carbohydrate
your body has available in one go. You *must* eat energy bars, about half a bar at a time, once
every 10 minutes or so, during your ride.

This will maintain the level of simple carbohydrates in your bloodstream, which will permit your fat
metabolism to work efficiently and reduce the drain on your bodies own resources of carbohydrates.

--
Callas

"Peter Rollason" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I have noticed I seemed plagued by the bonk in the winter months - today I had 2 breakfasts, did
around 40 miles, yet still got that dreaded cold sweat, and really having to concentrate -
something else I have noticed is that I seem to be eating loads ?

Any thoughts

No jokes

Pete.

Only that I weaken/bonk around 25+m when I start riding again after my 2 month winter lay-off. In my
case, I feel its because of the lack of aerobic fitness, which means I burn far more "sugars" than
when fit/trained. Normally, during summer/autumn, I can do 50~60m at the top end of the 150's bpm,
none stop (>3hrs) without grub. Remember at 3c you have a massive wind-chill factor as well.

You may want de-worming?

Callas said:

You need to eat *while* you're riding.

It's all very well chucking down 1000 kcal for breakfast, but that is not by any means all going
to be immediately available to you as you ride; and doing 40 miles at a reasonable pace (18 to
20mph average) is going to use up about 1200 kcal - and that is hitting the limit of how much
carbohydrate your body has available in one go. You *must* eat energy bars, about half a bar at a
time, once every 10 minutes or so, during your ride.

That's way OTT for a 2 hour ride. Sure, eating a bit might help (and if the ride is closer to 3
hours, or even more, then it's definitely a good idea to eat something) but a few snacks is fine
rather than the force-feeding regime you suggest. Half an energy bar every 10 minutes would
certainly dampen my enthusiasm for cycling!

James

In article <[email hidden]>, James Annan <still_the_same_m [email hidden]> writes

Quoted message said:

Callas said:

You need to eat *while* you're riding.

It's all very well chucking down 1000 kcal for breakfast, but that is not by any means all going
to be immediately available to you as you ride; and doing 40 miles at a reasonable pace (18 to
20mph average) is going to use up about 1200 kcal - and that is hitting the limit of how much
carbohydrate your body has available in one go. You *must* eat energy bars, about half a bar at a
time, once every 10 minutes or so, during your ride.

That's way OTT for a 2 hour ride. Sure, eating a bit might help (and if the ride is closer to 3
hours, or even more, then it's definitely a good idea to eat something) but a few snacks is fine
rather than the force-feeding regime you suggest. Half an energy bar every 10 minutes would
certainly dampen my enthusiasm for cycling!

It'd also be interesting to know what the OP means by two breakfasts? When I'm planning to ride
(which these days means almost every day), at this time of year I eat a bowl of porridge and maybe a
slice or two of bread I bake myself. In the summer I have a bowl of unsweetened muesli mixed with
fruit juice and yoghurt, with maybe some dried apricots added. I find these very good at keeping me
going with a slow release of energy over 3 to 4 hours. I certainly don't have a fry-up. Then I'll
have the odd jaffa cake or fig roll while I'm going, and I take a litre of High 5 with me.
--
The Big Baguette

Callas said:

Quoted message said:

I have noticed I seemed plagued by the bonk in the winter months - today I had 2 breakfasts, did
around 40 miles, yet still got that dreaded cold sweat, and really having to concentrate -
something else I have noticed is that I seem to be eating loads ?

Quoted message said:

You need to eat *while* you're riding.

I find that I use up the pre-ride reserves at some point between 30 and 35 miles, riding briskly. If
I trundle I can make 50 before stopping for a sarnie, but prefer to have a bun at elevenses :-)

I also find that my energy requirements are only slightly higher in winter - by the time I've gone
up the first hill I'm usually unzipping my windproof jacket.

Quoted message said:

You *must* eat energy bars, about half a bar at a time, once every 10 minutes or so, during
your ride.

Must? For a 40 mile ride at an average of slightly over 20mph, with about 20lb of luggage, I find
that one bog-standard muesli bar somewhere between 30 and 35 miles is sufficient to avoid the bonk.

The best advice is to listen to your body. If you find that two breakfasts doesn't cut it, eat one
breakfast and eat more on the ride. But energy bars every ten minutes? Every ten miles, perhaps.

I find I don't need to eat significantly on short rides like this anyway. I very rarely eat on
the bike, and the only times when I've actually used energy bars have been when trying to
complete a century in decent time. 80 miles or more at trundling pace can be achieved without
eating on the fly.

--
Guy
===
I wonder if you wouldn't mind piecing out our imperfections with your thoughts; and while you're
about it perhaps you could think when we talk of bicycles, that you see them printing their proud
wheels i' the receiving earth; thanks awfully.

highwaycode.gov.uk09.shtmlOpen ↗ highwaycode.gov.uk09.shtmlOpen ↗

The Big Baguette said:

It'd also be interesting to know what the OP means by two breakfasts? When I'm planning to ride
(which these days means almost every day), at this time of year I eat a bowl of porridge and maybe
a slice or two of bread I bake myself.

Remind me to apply next time you want a ride buddy - I'm a sucker for home-baked bread :-)

Quoted message said:

In the summer I have a bowl of unsweetened muesli mixed with fruit juice and yoghurt, with maybe
some dried apricots added. I find these very good at keeping me going with a slow release of
energy over 3 to 4 hours. I certainly don't have a fry-up.

Dried apricots are supposed to be terribly good for avoiding cramp. If only I liked them! Ditto
bananas. I do get cramp relatively often, and it winds me up a bit. Normally after I get off the
bike, though.

Quoted message said:

Then I'll have the odd jaffa cake or fig roll

Ah, the fig roll - truly a prince among biscuits. I have recently persuaded the biscuit fairy to
start putting them in our ofice biscuit tin :-)

--
Guy
===
I wonder if you wouldn't mind piecing out our imperfections with your thoughts; and while you're
about it perhaps you could think when we talk of bicycles, that you see them printing their proud
wheels i' the receiving earth; thanks awfully.

highwaycode.gov.uk09.shtmlOpen ↗ highwaycode.gov.uk09.shtmlOpen ↗

In article <[email hidden]>, Just zis Guy, you know?
<[email hidden]> writes

Quoted message said:

The Big Baguette said:

It'd also be interesting to know what the OP means by two breakfasts? When I'm planning to ride
(which these days means almost every day), at this time of year I eat a bowl of porridge and
maybe a slice or two of bread I bake myself.

Remind me to apply next time you want a ride buddy - I'm a sucker for home-baked bread :-)

The stuff I'm eating right now is particularly nice -- a mixture of wholemeal, granary and barley
flour (all organic, natch) with a free range egg, separated and beaten, and just a touch of thick
organic honey. Yum yum, piggy's bum. I'm a bread nutter, but it has to be the right bread.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

In the summer I have a bowl of unsweetened muesli mixed with fruit juice and yoghurt, with maybe
some dried apricots added. I find these very good at keeping me going with a slow release of
energy over 3 to 4 hours. I certainly don't have a fry-up.

Dried apricots are supposed to be terribly good for avoiding cramp. If only I liked them! Ditto
bananas. I do get cramp relatively often, and it winds me up a bit. Normally after I get off the
bike, though.

I get cramp, too -- fortunately, I like both bananas and dried apricots. The bananas have to be
fresh, though -- I can't abide dried banana flakes

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Then I'll have the odd jaffa cake or fig roll

Ah, the fig roll - truly a prince among biscuits. I have recently persuaded the biscuit fairy to
start putting them in our ofice biscuit tin :-)

I never come out of Sainsbury without a packet or two. They have nice low sugar ones now
--
The Big Baguette

Quoted message said:

Must? For a 40 mile ride at an average of slightly over 20mph, with about 20lb of luggage, I
find that one bog-standard muesli bar somewhere between 30 and 35 miles is sufficient to avoid
the bonk.

Presumably thats on a bent

Quoted message said:

The best advice is to listen to your body. If you find that two breakfasts doesn't cut it, eat one
breakfast and eat more on the ride. But energy bars every ten minutes? Every ten miles, perhaps.

Quite

Quoted message said:

I find I don't need to eat significantly on short rides like this anyway. I very rarely eat on
the bike, and the only times when I've actually used energy bars have been when trying to
complete a century in decent time. 80 miles or more at trundling pace can be achieved without
eating on the fly.

Yes, but 80 miles of flats or 80 miles of fearsome hills?

-Alex

--
----------------------+ Alex Graham | [email hidden] | ----------------------+

My running book suggests a pint of sports drink every hour, one or two gel packs, one energy bar or
any combination. You need liquid as well as carbohydrate intake.

Re: cramps. Most people probably know that lack of salt (sodium chloride) is a possible cause
but, I would have thought, rather unlikely given the amount of processed food we eat. Other
causes are overworked muscles for conditioning, slight muscle strians, dehydration, tight
hamstrings, too little potassium, calcium and magnesium (often ingested via respective
chlorides), exposure to temperature extremes, inadequate warm-up, poor blood circulation, tight
clothing, sudden change in shoes.

--
Michael MacClancy

Michael MacClancy said:

My running book suggests a pint of sports drink every hour, one or two gel packs, one energy bar
or any combination. You need liquid as well as carbohydrate intake.

Running is more physically demanding than cycling, though. Very few people can run for more than an
hour, whereas perfectly ordinary people can ride a bike for whole days at a stretch.

Just my £0.02

Quoted message said:

Re: cramps. Most people probably know that lack of salt (sodium chloride) is a possible cause
but, I would have thought, rather unlikely given the amount of processed food we eat. Other
causes are overworked muscles for conditioning, slight muscle strians, dehydration, tight
hamstrings, too little potassium, calcium and magnesium (often ingested via respective
chlorides), exposure to temperature extremes, inadequate warm-up, poor blood circulation, tight
clothing, sudden change in shoes.

I've thought for some time that in my case it's a mineral deficiency - I am fit and strong, I ride
pretty much every day, and the cramp usually happens towards the end of a ride. I rarely change
shoes in mid ride :-D

--
Guy
===
I wonder if you wouldn't mind piecing out our imperfections with your thoughts; and while you're
about it perhaps you could think when we talk of bicycles, that you see them printing their proud
wheels i' the receiving earth; thanks awfully.

highwaycode.gov.uk09.shtmlOpen ↗ highwaycode.gov.uk09.shtmlOpen ↗

Just zis Guy said:

The best advice is to listen to your body.

I beg to differ on this point. The body is a very unreliable guide. It tends to warn too late and
then, often, catastrophically (hence: the bonk). In respect to dehydration, 'any one of us can lose
as much as 4 pints of fluids before getting thirsty'. It takes up to 20 minutes for the fluid to be
absorbed. Food also needs time to get digested so if you are bonking then the lesson is that you've
left it too late.

I'm no dietician, the source of this information is a book for competitive runners but they have the
same general physiology as cyclists, don't they?
--
Michael MacClancy

Alex Graham said:

Quoted message said:

Must? For a 40 mile ride at an average of slightly over 20mph, with about 20lb of luggage, I
find that one bog-standard muesli bar somewhere between 30 and 35 miles is sufficient to avoid
the bonk.

Quoted message said:

Presumably thats on a bent

Nope, the wedgie.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I find I don't need to eat significantly on short rides like this anyway. I very rarely eat on
the bike, and the only times when I've actually used energy bars have been when trying to
complete a century in decent time. 80 miles or more at trundling pace can be achieved without
eating on the fly.

Quoted message said:

Yes, but 80 miles of flats or 80 miles of fearsome hills?

Depends what you mean by "fearsome" - the hills around here are quite tame by comparison with
Yorkshire, but the rides have been known to take in double-chevron hills. The consensus is that
hills exist to be ridden up :-)

Watership Down springs to mind, and the hills around Bix and the far side of the Thames
around Marlow.

--
Guy
===
I wonder if you wouldn't mind piecing out our imperfections with your thoughts; and while you're
about it perhaps you could think when we talk of bicycles, that you see them printing their proud
wheels i' the receiving earth; thanks awfully.

highwaycode.gov.uk09.shtmlOpen ↗ highwaycode.gov.uk09.shtmlOpen ↗

Michael MacClancy said:

Quoted message said:

The best advice is to listen to your body.

Quoted message said:

I beg to differ on this point. The body is a very unreliable guide. It tends to warn too late

In this case, though, the OP has sufficient experience to know that the bonk sets in at time
X, therefore indicating that the current regime is not working right and that more input is
needed before X.

Quoted message said:

In respect to dehydration, 'any one of us can lose as much as 4 pints of fluids before getting
thirsty'. It takes up to 20 minutes for the fluid to be absorbed. Food also needs time to get
digested so if you are bonking then the lesson is that you've left it too late.

Yes - I mean that you should learn from that and plan. But eating every ten minutes as advised
(demanded, in fact) would be thoroughly excessive, in my experience.

Quoted message said:

I'm no dietician, the source of this information is a book for competitive runners but they have
the same general physiology as cyclists, don't they?

Runners are using energy at a greater rate.

--
Guy
===
I wonder if you wouldn't mind piecing out our imperfections with your thoughts; and while you're
about it perhaps you could think when we talk of bicycles, that you see them printing their proud
wheels i' the receiving earth; thanks awfully.

highwaycode.gov.uk09.shtmlOpen ↗ highwaycode.gov.uk09.shtmlOpen ↗

Just zis Guy said:

Running is more physically demanding than cycling, though. Very few people can run for more than
an hour, whereas perfectly ordinary people can ride a bike for whole days at a stretch.

Just my £0.02

General agreement, but you have to compare like with like. Running a race is more demanding than the
way most people (regular tourists included) ride a bike but slow training runs probably aren't that
much different.

You'd be surprised how many people can run for more than an hour. 2000 ran the Wokingham Half
Marathon on Feb. 9th (me included) and probably getting on for half of them will have taken 1:50
or longer.
--
Michael MacClancy

Michael MacClancy said:

You'd be surprised how many people can run for more than an hour. 2000 ran the Wokingham Half
Marathon on Feb. 9th (me included) and probably getting on for half of them will have taken 1:50
or longer.

Oh, no dispute - but I regularly ride for six or more hours in a day, and so do many others. A
marathon requires a load of training, a day ride of several hours duration doesn't.

--
Guy
===
I wonder if you wouldn't mind piecing out our imperfections with your thoughts; and while you're
about it perhaps you could think when we talk of bicycles, that you see them printing their proud
wheels i' the receiving earth; thanks awfully.

highwaycode.gov.uk09.shtmlOpen ↗ highwaycode.gov.uk09.shtmlOpen ↗