Hill training on the bike

Dave said:

I've got a few good bike tracks near home. Some have hills I can push up while remaining seated,
some I end up standing ont the pedals most of the way up. If my aim is to get some strength for
triathlons that are always held on the flat should I stick to training in the seated position and
just ride the hills where that is possible most of the time? Or is there value in riding the
steeper hills where I have to get up?

Dave

Hills are great training for any event, flat or otherwise. To quote my (bike) training book:

"Minute for minute, it's hard to beat the benefits of time spent climbing. Take it from three-time
TdF champion Greg LeMond, who says "There's no better training than riding hills. For me it was the
easiest way to get in shape." It improves everything - strength, power, stamina, cardio
conditioning. As opposed to a flat 90 minute ride, one that includes a couple of thousand vertical
feet will leave you feeling happily hammered, satisfied that you got a lot for your precious on-
bike time."

I don't know much about tris, but I imagine the bike leg (if it's flat and there's no drafting
allowed) is a steady-state effort where you try to hover just under your lactate threshhold (LT).
Strangely the best way to raise your LT is not by doing steady-state training but by doing hard/easy
intervals - you can do this on the flat if you have the self-discipline, but hills are a great
natural interval enforcer, particularly if you have a local track where you can go into the red zone
up a hill or two and recover for the rest of the lap.

If you really want to know more about bike training, the best advice I can give is to get a good
book (or a few).

HTH,

&roo

I can see the value in hill climbing as interval training, and that's the main reason I'm looking at
it. But I assume that you would use different muscles seated and standing (but more than happy to be
corrected) , so I'm more interested in how the hill climbing should be done for maximum benefit for
a flat terrain race.

Andrew Swan said:

Dave said:

I've got a few good bike tracks near home. Some have hills I can push up while remaining seated,
some I end up standing ont the pedals most of the way up. If my aim is to get some strength for
triathlons that are always held on the flat should I stick to training in the seated position and
just ride the hills where that is possible most of the time? Or is there value in riding the
steeper hills where I have to get up?

Dave

Hills are great training for any event, flat or otherwise. To quote my (bike) training book:

"Minute for minute, it's hard to beat the benefits of time spent climbing. Take it from three-time
TdF champion Greg LeMond, who says "There's no better training than riding hills. For me it was
the easiest way to get in shape." It improves everything - strength, power, stamina, cardio
conditioning. As opposed to a flat 90 minute ride, one that includes a couple of thousand vertical
feet will leave you feeling happily hammered, satisfied that you got a lot for your precious on-
bike time."

I don't know much about tris, but I imagine the bike leg (if it's flat and there's no drafting
allowed) is a steady-state effort where you try to hover just under your lactate threshhold (LT).
Strangely the best way to raise your LT is not by doing steady-state training but by doing
hard/easy intervals - you can do this on the flat if you have the self-discipline, but hills are a
great natural interval enforcer, particularly if you have a local track where you can go into the
red zone up a hill or two and recover for the rest of the lap.

If you really want to know more about bike training, the best advice I can give is to get a good
book (or a few).

HTH,

&roo

Dave said:

I can see the value in hill climbing as interval training, and that's the main reason I'm looking
at it. But I assume that you would use different muscles seated and standing (but more than happy
to be corrected) , so I'm more interested in how the hill climbing should be done for maximum
benefit for a flat terrain race.

Andrew Swan said:

Dave said:

I've got a few good bike tracks near home. Some have hills I can push up while remaining seated,
some I end up standing ont the pedals most of the way up. If my aim is to get some strength for
triathlons that are always held on the flat should I stick to training in the seated position
and just ride the hills where that is possible most of the time? Or is there value in riding the
steeper hills where I have to get up?

Dave

Hills are great training for any event, flat or otherwise. To quote my (bike) training book:

"Minute for minute, it's hard to beat the benefits of time spent climbing. Take it from three-
time TdF champion Greg LeMond, who says "There's no better training than riding hills. For me it
was the easiest way to get in shape." It improves everything - strength, power, stamina, cardio
conditioning. As opposed to a flat 90 minute ride, one that includes a couple of thousand
vertical feet will leave you feeling happily hammered, satisfied that you got a lot for your
precious on-bike time."

I don't know much about tris, but I imagine the bike leg (if it's flat and there's no drafting
allowed) is a steady-state effort where you try to hover just under your lactate threshhold (LT).
Strangely the best way to raise your LT is not by doing steady-state training but by doing
hard/easy intervals - you can do this on the flat if you have the self-discipline, but hills are
a great natural interval enforcer, particularly if you have a local track where you can go into
the red zone up a hill or two and recover for the rest of the lap.

If you really want to know more about bike training, the best advice I can give is to get a good
book (or a few).

HTH,

&roo

It depends on your riding style and the nature of the race course. If your flat races are sometimes
into headwinds, you will want to develop power during training by climbing seated in a big gear at
low revs. If when you race you spin like a roadie (>= 90 rpm) rather than rolling a bigger gear like
a time triallist (~70-80rpm), you will want to do your climbing in a smaller gear to train your legs
and your brain to spin properly.

You do use different muscles seated and standing (which is why it's good to alternate between the
two on longer climbs), but which one you do most of is largely a matter of preference. In terms of
training for a flat ride, I think either is OK if you do enough of it hard enough. Really your aim
is to increase your aerobic capacity (how hard you can go and for how long). Hills do this
regardless of whether you sit or stand (although I find it easier to bludge when sitting!).

Interesting to hear what more qualified people have to say...

&roo

Andrew Swan <[email hidden]> wrote in news:gIQLb.423
[email hidden]:

Quoted message said:

If when you race you spin like a roadie (>= 90 rpm) rather than rolling a bigger gear like a time
triallist (~70-80rpm), you will want to do your climbing in a smaller gear to train your legs and
your brain to spin properly.

Even though the bike event in Tri is most simlar to a TT, most triathletes try to maintain a high
cadence because it leaves their legs in better shape for the run.

Tom

Quoted message said:

corrected) , so I'm more interested in how the hill climbing should be done for maximum benefit
for a flat terrain race.

(Assuming training should be specific to the event.)

If you do only hill training for the flat?

You want to use the same muscles in the same way as they would be used in the the race, at least for
much of your training.

In the time trial, you would be seated, at high, even pedal cadence, with no downhills, though wind
could be a big factor.

So, conduct yourself accordingly.

Climbing hills at low cadence, coasting down, standing a lot, etc., would not be best.

"Dave" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I've got a few good bike tracks near home. Some have hills I can push up while remaining seated,
some I end up standing ont the pedals most of the way up. If my aim is to get some strength for
triathlons that are always held on the flat should I stick to training in the seated position and
just ride the hills where that is possible most of the time? Or is there value in riding the
steeper hills where I have to get up?

Dave

Are you assuming that triathlons are always done on flat courses or do you search out flat-course
triathlons? If your assumption is that the course will be flat you may want to take a look at some
course profiles...

-CF

Dave <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

I can see the value in hill climbing as interval training, and that's the main reason I'm looking
at it. But I assume that you would use different muscles seated and standing (but more than happy
to be corrected) , so I'm more interested in how the hill climbing should be done for maximum
benefit for a flat terrain race.

<snip>

Stay seated with a normal cadence on moderate climbs to get some benefit to carryover to flat time
trials, occasionally stick it in a bigger gear at slower RPM. Any hill work will help you develop
bike "strength," but steeper climbs and standing are not the best work to do when running well
afterwards is also a goal. The other poster is right about doing interval/LT work on the bike. An
example week (bike) might look like

T: ride easy-moderate 2 hr in hills Th: ride 30min warm up, 2 x 20 min LT with 10min spin between,
30min cooldown Sat: long ride with some hills easy-mod Sun: 2 hrs flat 30min spin, 1 tempo (mod-
mod hard) 30 spin

"ChronoFish" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:JgXMb.175$iI2.120@lakeread03...

Quoted message said:

Are you assuming that triathlons are always done on flat courses or do you

search

Quoted message said:

out flat-course triathlons? If your assumption is that the course will be

flat you may

Quoted message said:

want to take a look at some course profiles...

Most of the Melbourne ones are, but the Canberra half certainly wasn't. A workmate of mine did it
and before the race we went over the course profile, going "that's like 1:20 but twice as long",
"that one's steeper but not as long", etc.. :-)

hippy

Assuming you are racing in Melbourne the courses are flat. Sandringham is probably the most
undulating course, but nothing that a regular Beach Road rider could not handle.

The best advice is get some quality time in the saddle. Hills will make you stronger but will hurt
you a lot if you are not ready for lots of them. Build up to these things systematically and the
strength and speed will come.

Also, if you can, do some of your riding on the course you plan to cover to get to know it better.

Go well.