Bulletproof drivetrain?

Mr. E. Mann said:

ClydesdaleMTB <[email hidden]> wrote in :"]news:[email hidden]:

Quoted message said:

Mr. E. Mann said:

I'm looking for suggestions on setting up a bulletproof drivetrain for my bike. I'm currently
riding on the street mostly, but plan to get offroading soon. Anyway, I'm planning on replacing
the deraileurs, shifters, cranks, chain and possibly the wheels. I'm looking for very light and
(most importantly) extremely reliable. I've been out of the loop for too many years to really
know what's what.

Shimano XT 8speed shifter pods, XT Rear Derailer XTR front Derailer Rafe Face North Shore ISIS
cranks and BB SRAM chain PC48 and cassette chainrings are "consumables"

Thanks for the (serious) replies. I'm surprised that so many people would rather throw out the
bike instead of upgrading. Seems like a waste of money to me since I would want to change things
on a bike that cost more that three times what I paid on this one. My main concern was to upgrade
my deraulers since everything I read about Acera indicates they are [censored] and the performance I've
been geting out of them was poor and noisy. Also, from what I've heard it's becoming difficult to
get 8 speed parts since 9 speed seems to be the "in" thing. If I can get a good 8 speed setup,
I'll live with the cranks I have now. I don't really need any more gears on the back, since I
don't use the largest sprocket on the back (does anyone?). If anything I would want to change the
casette to something that will give a little better top end. I'm still heavily leaning toward XTR
front and rear deraulers, because of all the great reviews I've read about them I honestly don't
feel that $75 is that much money for a rear derailer. I Guess I've never been that much of a penny
pincher.

If you're not that much of a penny pincher, then for godsakes buy a new bike!

You're not just paying for a drivetrain on a new bike. You're paying for a quality frame (the heart
and soul of a bike), quality fork (very important!), quality wheels (also extremely important), and
a fit oriented towards trail riding, not sidewalk riding.

You can hang the nicest parts on a mediocre frame, and it won't feel like a nice bike. It just
won't. You're far better off getting a more expensive bike, for less than the cost of an XTR
drivetrain, with XT/LX mix, a decent fork (which will do wonders for your riding), decent wheels
(accelerate faster, stronger, stay true), and most importantly, a frame that will last, be
comfortable, and help your riding.

If you're going to drop 125 bux on XTR derailleurs... and you should probably get new shifters,
because they make a huge difference.... not to mention new cassette, which will be slightly more
speed oriented, plus a new crankset, which will have larger chainrings, hence be faster, than your
lower end setup; it comes to a lot of dosh. a LOT.

Do yourself a favor, and buy a bike around the $800-1000 pricemark. And not a full suspension at
that price! Get a quality hardtail, with LX/XT mix (probably XT derailleur, LX everything else at
that price, maybe
Ms/XTR if you get a really good deal on last year's model), some great wheels, and a decent fork
(look for marzocchi, but don't discount a bike that fits you and feels great if its got rockshox
or manitou... anything else, look elsewhere!).

Do yourself a favor, don't bother upgrading. Ride your bike until stuff breaks (and you know you
want to invest in mountain biking, not just sidewalk riding) and buy a new one, or sell your bike
now and get a new one.

Jon Bond types damn well for having some... uh... milk. Yeah. with some kahlua especial... I mean,
more milk. yeah, thats it...

PS: for anybody that cares to listen to some GREAT jazz/funk, get some Joshua Redman or some
Soulive... just saw both tonight. Josh Redman is an AMAZING saxophonist, with a great drummer
(he's insanely good!) and keyboardist backing him up. Soulive is a trio - drummer, guitarist,
bassist/keyboardist/organist. Fantastic music.

Jonathan Bond <[email hidden]> wrote in
:"]news:[email hidden]:

Quoted message said:

Mr. E. Mann said:

ClydesdaleMTB <[email hidden]> wrote in :"]news:[email hidden]:

Quoted message said:

Mr. E. Mann wrote:

>I'm looking for suggestions on setting up a bulletproof drivetrain for my bike. I'm currently
>riding on the street mostly, but plan to get offroading soon. Anyway, I'm planning on replacing
>the deraileurs, shifters, cranks, chain and possibly the wheels. I'm looking for very light and
>(most importantly) extremely reliable. I've been out of the loop for too many years to really
>know what's what.

Shimano XT 8speed shifter pods, XT Rear Derailer XTR front Derailer Rafe Face North Shore ISIS
cranks and BB SRAM chain PC48 and cassette chainrings are "consumables"

Thanks for the (serious) replies. I'm surprised that so many people would rather throw out the
bike instead of upgrading. Seems like a waste of money to me since I would want to change things
on a bike that cost more that three times what I paid on this one. My main concern was to upgrade
my deraulers since everything I read about Acera indicates they are [censored] and the performance I've
been geting out of them was poor and noisy. Also, from what I've heard it's becoming difficult to
get 8 speed parts since 9 speed seems to be the "in" thing. If I can get a good 8 speed setup,
I'll live with the cranks I have now. I don't really need any more gears on the back, since I
don't use the largest sprocket on the back (does anyone?). If anything I would want to change the
casette to something that will give a little better top end. I'm still heavily leaning toward XTR
front and rear deraulers, because of all the great reviews I've read about them I honestly don't
feel that $75 is that much money for a rear derailer. I Guess I've never been that much of a
penny pincher.

If you're not that much of a penny pincher, then for godsakes buy a new bike!

Like I said, I'm not a penny pincher. I would never be able to save up enough money to get a
$1000.00 bike.

Quoted message said:

You're not just paying for a drivetrain on a new bike. You're paying for a quality frame (the
heart and soul of a bike), quality fork (very important!), quality wheels (also extremely
important), and a fit oriented towards trail riding, not sidewalk riding.

But I do a LOT of "sidewalk" riding!

Quoted message said:

You can hang the nicest parts on a mediocre frame, and it won't feel like a nice bike. It just
won't. You're far better off getting a more expensive bike, for less than the cost of an XTR
drivetrain, with
XT/LX mix, a decent fork (which will do wonders for your riding), decent wheels (accelerate
faster, stronger, stay true), and most importantly, a frame that will last, be comfortable, and
help your riding.

If it comes to the point where my frame feels uncomfortable, or needs replacing, I'll replace it.
For now, it feels fine and fits fine.

Quoted message said:

If you're going to drop 125 bux on XTR derailleurs... and you should probably get new shifters,
because they make a huge difference.... not to mention new cassette, which will be slightly more
speed oriented, plus a new crankset, which will have larger chainrings, hence be faster, than your
lower end setup; it comes to a lot of dosh. a LOT.

Yes, but not as much as buying a bike with all the parts I want on it. Believe it or not, I enjoy
the whole process of upgrading. I'm the same way with my computer. I've only bought one complete
computer and that was over ten years ago.

Quoted message said:

Do yourself a favor, and buy a bike around the $800-1000 pricemark. And not a full suspension at
that price! Get a quality hardtail, with
LX/XT mix (probably XT derailleur, LX everything else at that price, maybe XT/XTR if you get a
really good deal on last year's model), some great wheels, and a decent fork (look for
marzocchi, but don't discount a bike that fits you and feels great if its got rockshox or
manitou... anything else, look elsewhere!).

I've read some pretty bad reviews of RockShox. I'm going to assume it's only the cheaper ones
that suck?

Quoted message said:

Do yourself a favor, don't bother upgrading. Ride your bike until stuff breaks (and you know you
want to invest in mountain biking, not just sidewalk riding) and buy a new one, or sell your bike
now and get a new one.

But I do a lot of Sidewalk riding! I enjoy it!!!

Quoted message said:

Jon Bond types damn well for having some... uh... milk. Yeah. with some kahlua especial... I mean,
more milk. yeah, thats it...

PS: for anybody that cares to listen to some GREAT jazz/funk, get some Joshua Redman or some
Soulive... just saw both tonight. Josh Redman is an AMAZING saxophonist, with a great drummer
(he's insanely good!) and keyboardist backing him up. Soulive is a trio - drummer, guitarist,
bassist/keyboardist/organist. Fantastic music.

In article said:

Quoted message said:

If you're not that much of a penny pincher, then for godsakes buy a new bike!

Like I said, I'm not a penny pincher. I would never be able to save up enough money to get a
$1000.00 bike.

Then don't buy a $1000 bike. But buying XTR parts to hang on a cheap bike is pretty foolish.

Quoted message said:

But I do a LOT of "sidewalk" riding!

Then go with something like LX, or at most, XT. XTR is racer gear. Heck, XT is good enough for a lot
of us privateer racers.

Quoted message said:

Yes, but not as much as buying a bike with all the parts I want on it. Believe it or not, I enjoy
the whole process of upgrading. I'm the same way with my computer. I've only bought one complete
computer and that was over ten years ago.

Upgrading a bike is nothing at all like upgrading a computer. I've done both, and they're not really
comparable. Buying a new frame tends to require a lot of new parts, even if you have a bunch sitting
around. Buying things like new drivetrains are wasted if you don't but the whole thing at once, or
if some parts are SIGNIFICANTLY worse than others.

Quoted message said:

I've read some pretty bad reviews of RockShox. I'm going to assume it's only the cheaper ones
that suck?

As with most things, you get what you pay for. With Rockshox, you can still pay a lot, and not get
very much. Some people can live with that, or have mechanics to do their maintenence.

Quoted message said:

But I do a lot of Sidewalk riding! I enjoy it!!!

You may want to consider a completely different kind of bike, in that case. Mountain bikes are lousy
for sidewalks.

Here's the thing: if you want XTR/XT, you have to go for the whole thing, assuming it'll even fit
your bike. Mixing Acera and XTR parts just doesn't work. You'll end up with an expensive drivetrain
that performs just as poorly as your old one. Ideally, a drivetrain should wear fairly evenly. If
you already have worn out pieces, it reduces the overall lifetime of the drivetrain. XTR parts also
need a little more TLC. Let them get too dirty, and everything suffers. I don't know how much bike
wrenching you do, but you have to at least keep the drivetrain clean. If you want something lower
maintenance, go with LX or XT.

Don't make this purchase because XTR sounds cool or something. It's good stuff, but it's meant to be
used as the lightest stuff that you can get so you can race the bike.

It's your money, though. I'm not suggesting that you be a penny pincher, just that you make an
appropriate decision. Save some money and but yourself some other new bike parts, too!

JS

--
========================= [email hidden] ========================
Jan Sacharuk Member in Good Standing of The Discordian Solidarity Turn on viewing of the X-Geek-Code
header to see my Geek Code
-----------------------------------------------------------------
"This is a dumb world. In my world, there are people in chains,
and we can ride them like ponies." - Evil Willow, BtVS

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Thanks for the (serious) replies. I'm surprised that so many people would rather throw out the
bike instead of upgrading. Seems like a waste of money to me since I would want to change
things on a bike that cost more that three times what I paid on this one. My main concern was
to upgrade my deraulers since everything I read about Acera indicates they are [censored] and the
performance I've been geting out of them was poor and noisy. Also, from what I've heard it's
becoming difficult to get 8 speed parts since 9 speed seems to be the "in" thing. If I can get
a good 8 speed setup, I'll live with the cranks I have now. I don't really need any more gears
on the back, since I don't use the largest sprocket on the back (does anyone?). If anything I
would want to change the casette to something that will give a little better top end. I'm still
heavily leaning toward XTR front and rear deraulers, because of all the great reviews I've read
about them I honestly don't feel that $75 is that much money for a rear derailer. I Guess I've
never been that much of a penny pincher.

Remember in the original post, where you said the proposed drivetrain had to be "(most importantly)
extremely reliable"...well, you won't find that with XTR. It can last forever - all of it can - but
it will take a lot more attention to keep XTR working flawlessly than it would XT/LX components.

XTR is designed for racers - racers with mechanics. If saving twenty grams is worth the $60-70
difference, and the maintanence penalty, than by all means go XTR. Unless, however, you get new XTR
shifters, a high end crankset, and stiff smooth wheels, you simply will not notice the differences
between XTR and the other decent families of Shimano kit - except in your wallet.

If your bike is 8-speed - I don't remember reading that until this most recent post - than things
change. Online shops like JensonUSA.com and PricePoint.com have lots of cheap high-end 8-speed stuff
lying around, and Ebay is always full of NOS 8-speed gear, especially XTR and lately, lots of
LX.

Regarding the frame...bike built for sidewalk riding will not transfer themselves to off-road riding
very well. If your original bike was spec'd for Acera gear, than it was never intended to spend a
lot of time in the muck. That's not to say you can't have a blast on it, or ride it for another 20
years, but the amount of MTBing it can handle is limited. There are three kinds of MTBs: toys shaped
liked bikes (-Mart specials), bikes styled like Moutain Bikes (most bikes with Acera gear), and
bikes that were inteded to be specifically used off-pavement.

All components in the Deore family are upgrades from Acera, but just as a high-performance,
road-racing style triple clutch would make no difference in a Toyota Echo, XTR would probably have
little significant advantage on your ride.

But, follow your heart. Just have fun with it.

Chris

Mr. E. Mann said:

I Guess I've never been that much of a penny pincher.

She'll be glad to know that.

"Mr. E. Mann" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

I'm looking for suggestions on setting up a bulletproof drivetrain for my bike.

The closest you can get to that would be a singlespeed drivetrain with CK hubs, RF DH BB, Sachs
chain, RF DH Crankset and Spot chainring. Nothing is bombproof, as TJ indicated. Anyone who thinks
there is a bulletproof drivetrain out there needs to quit using a bb gun.

Quoted message said:

I'm currently riding on the street mostly, but plan to get offroading soon.

Read the IMBA Rules Of The Trail.

Quoted message said:

Anyway, I'm planning on replacing the deraileurs, shifters, cranks, chain and possibly the wheels.

XT is lowest and highest you should go if you want dependability, except the hubs. [censored] hubs
suck. Spend the money now on CK hubs, or keep buying [censored] over and over again. BTW, whomever
thinks crossmax wheels are bombporoof needs to get off of the sidewalk and start riding trails. I've
seen too many of those crappy wheelsets fall apart when used on ther trails regularly.

Quoted message said:

I'm looking for very light and (most importantly) extremely reliable.

Very light and extremely reliable have always been contradictory when it comes to mountain bike
parts. There are very few exceptions, most being singlespeed related. Pay the weight penalty now, or
pay for more parts soon.

Quoted message said:

I've been out of the loop for too many years to really know what's what.

Who's teaching now, Mr Kotter?

JD

"ClydesdaleMTB" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Mr. E. Mann said:

I Guess I've
never been that much of a penny pincher.

She'll be glad to know that.

lol.....and 8 yrs from now (thanks to Google), he'll still be paying for this post!
--
Slacker

Mr. E. Mann said:

Jonathan Bond <[email hidden]> wrote in
:"]news:[email hidden]:

Quoted message said:

Mr. E. Mann said:

ClydesdaleMTB <[email hidden]> wrote in :"]news:[email hidden]:

>Mr. E. Mann wrote:
>
>>I'm looking for suggestions on setting up a bulletproof drivetrain for my bike. I'm currently
>>riding on the street mostly, but plan to get offroading soon. Anyway, I'm planning on
>>replacing the deraileurs, shifters, cranks, chain and possibly the wheels. I'm looking for
>>very light and (most importantly) extremely reliable. I've been out of the loop for too many
>>years to really know what's what.
>
>Shimano XT 8speed shifter pods, XT Rear Derailer XTR front Derailer Rafe Face North Shore ISIS
>cranks and BB SRAM chain PC48 and cassette chainrings are "consumables"
>

Thanks for the (serious) replies. I'm surprised that so many people would rather throw out the
bike instead of upgrading. Seems like a waste of money to me since I would want to change
things on a bike that cost more that three times what I paid on this one. My main concern was
to upgrade my deraulers since everything I read about Acera indicates they are [censored] and the
performance I've been geting out of them was poor and noisy. Also, from what I've heard it's
becoming difficult to get 8 speed parts since 9 speed seems to be the "in" thing. If I can get
a good 8 speed setup, I'll live with the cranks I have now. I don't really need any more gears
on the back, since I don't use the largest sprocket on the back (does anyone?). If anything I
would want to change the casette to something that will give a little better top end. I'm still
heavily leaning toward XTR front and rear deraulers, because of all the great reviews I've read
about them I honestly don't feel that $75 is that much money for a rear derailer. I Guess I've
never been that much of a penny pincher.

If you're not that much of a penny pincher, then for godsakes buy a new bike!

Like I said, I'm not a penny pincher. I would never be able to save up enough money to get a
$1000.00 bike.

Quoted message said:

You're not just paying for a drivetrain on a new bike. You're paying for a quality frame (the
heart and soul of a bike), quality fork (very important!), quality wheels (also extremely
important), and a fit oriented towards trail riding, not sidewalk riding.

But I do a LOT of "sidewalk" riding!

Quoted message said:

You can hang the nicest parts on a mediocre frame, and it won't feel like a nice bike. It just
won't. You're far better off getting a more expensive bike, for less than the cost of an XTR
drivetrain, with
XT/LX mix, a decent fork (which will do wonders for your riding), decent wheels (accelerate
faster, stronger, stay true), and most importantly, a frame that will last, be comfortable,
and help your riding.

If it comes to the point where my frame feels uncomfortable, or needs replacing, I'll replace it.
For now, it feels fine and fits fine.

Quoted message said:

If you're going to drop 125 bux on XTR derailleurs... and you should probably get new shifters,
because they make a huge difference.... not to mention new cassette, which will be slightly more
speed oriented, plus a new crankset, which will have larger chainrings, hence be faster, than
your lower end setup; it comes to a lot of dosh. a LOT.

Yes, but not as much as buying a bike with all the parts I want on it. Believe it or not, I enjoy
the whole process of upgrading. I'm the same way with my computer. I've only bought one complete
computer and that was over ten years ago.

Quoted message said:

Do yourself a favor, and buy a bike around the $800-1000 pricemark. And not a full suspension at
that price! Get a quality hardtail, with
LX/XT mix (probably XT derailleur, LX everything else at that price, maybe XT/XTR if you get a
really good deal on last year's model), some great wheels, and a decent fork (look for
marzocchi, but don't discount a bike that fits you and feels great if its got rockshox or
manitou... anything else, look elsewhere!).

I've read some pretty bad reviews of RockShox. I'm going to assume it's only the cheaper ones
that suck?

Quoted message said:

Do yourself a favor, don't bother upgrading. Ride your bike until stuff breaks (and you know you
want to invest in mountain biking, not just sidewalk riding) and buy a new one, or sell your
bike now and get a new one.

But I do a lot of Sidewalk riding! I enjoy it!!!

Quoted message said:

Jon Bond types damn well for having some... uh... milk. Yeah. with some kahlua especial... I
mean, more milk. yeah, thats it...

PS: for anybody that cares to listen to some GREAT jazz/funk, get some Joshua Redman or some
Soulive... just saw both tonight. Josh Redman is an AMAZING saxophonist, with a great
drummer (he's insanely good!) and keyboardist backing him up. Soulive is a trio - drummer,
guitarist, bassist/keyboardist/organist. Fantastic music.

If you ride on sidewalks - which you shouldn't do as it's the least safe place to have a bike if you
wan to pass through intersections - you do not XTR deraileurs. The cranks will effect your front
shifting much more than the front deraileur. Shifters will affect the rear shifting more than the
deraileur also.

What you are asking is like saying I have a small economy car, but I want to make it faster, so I'll
put parts from a sports car on it. Yes, maybe it's better, but not a lot.

Chris said:

Remember in the original post, where you said the proposed drivetrain had to be "(most
importantly) extremely reliable"...well, you won't find that with XTR. It can last forever - all
of it can - but it will take a lot more attention to keep XTR working flawlessly than it would
XT/LX components.

Obviously you've never owned XTR or you'd not make such a ludicrous statement. Exactly which
component(s) are you referring to that "take a lot more attention to keep XTR working flawlessly
than it would XT/LX components." I would beg to differ. The only difficult piece is the adjustable
bearing XTR BB, while the sealed bearing XTR has no issues.

LX and XT are both great. XTR is better. Is it worth the price? That's where LX and XT win out.

Slacker <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"ClydesdaleMTB" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Mr. E. Mann said:

I Guess I've
never been that much of a penny pincher.

She'll be glad to know that.

lol.....and 8 yrs from now (thanks to Google), he'll still be paying for

this post!

Ohhhh, don't be so bloody melodramatic Slacker.

Shaun aRe - heh.

Quoted message said:

Obviously you've never owned XTR or you'd not make such a ludicrous

statement.

Quoted message said:

Exactly which component(s) are you referring to that "take a lot more

attention

Quoted message said:

to keep XTR working flawlessly than it would XT/LX components." I would

beg to

Quoted message said:

differ. The only difficult piece is the adjustable bearing XTR BB, while

the

Quoted message said:

sealed bearing XTR has no issues.

LX and XT are both great. XTR is better. Is it worth the price? That's

where

Quoted message said:

LX and XT win out.

Nobody said anything about bottom brackets yet...we're still telling this guy about shifters and
derailleurs. Any name-brand bottom bracket will work for his intended use. If you're telling me the
XTR shifters and derailleurs have the same long-term durability and need adjustments less often,
well, that's the ludicrous statement.

XTR drivetrain components trade weight for durability, and while they are more precise than any
other Deore parts, they need more work to keep them in their optimal range.

Your claim that "XTR is better" is a conditional statement that, in this guy's case, is false.
Anyone buying XTR mechanicals expecting them to last a lifetime has made a mistake. They are made
for racers, who need every bit of possible performance, often replace working parts, and HAVE
MECHANICS.

Chris

On my winter bike, I have the crappiest components you can find, I believe al they are called is
7SIS. I don't really care because putting even deore would be a waste of money. go ahead and put
some Ferrari 6 speed transmission in your Geo Metro, and see how much better your car can be!

On the summer bike, pretty much full XT, *about* the same performance of XTR(ok its a little
heavier). I've seen ppl with rear der. XTR that came stock with their bike break off, they don't
replace it with XTR they replace it with XT(if compatible).

Dave

"Eric Lafferty" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Chris said:

Remember in the original post, where you said the proposed drivetrain

had to

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

be "(most importantly) extremely reliable"...well, you won't find that with XTR. It can last
forever - all of it can - but it will take a lot more attention to keep

XTR

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

working flawlessly than it would XT/LX components.

Obviously you've never owned XTR or you'd not make such a ludicrous

statement.

Quoted message said:

Exactly which component(s) are you referring to that "take a lot more

attention

Quoted message said:

to keep XTR working flawlessly than it would XT/LX components." I would

beg to

Quoted message said:

differ. The only difficult piece is the adjustable bearing XTR BB, while

the

Quoted message said:

sealed bearing XTR has no issues.

LX and XT are both great. XTR is better. Is it worth the price? That's

where

Quoted message said:

LX and XT win out.

Chris said:

Nobody said anything about bottom brackets yet...

Yes I did!

to quote:

Quoted message said:

ClydesdaleMTB <[email hidden]> wrote in :"]news:[email hidden]: Rafe Face
North Shore ISIS cranks and BB

Quoted message said:

Anyone buying XTR mechanicals expecting them to last a lifetime has made a mistake.

If you say so....

Quoted message said:

They are made for racers, who need every bit of possible performance, often replace working parts,
and HAVE MECHANICS.

That's funny, I do all my own wrenching and have some XTR stuff on various bikes, I find them to be
quite relaible.. in fact I have not had to re-adjust mine since initial instalation and set-up, and
I am quite known for breaking things. set it and forget it. have you ever seen the way "pro's treat
their bikes!?!?! quite pitiful, but since thier sponsors are paying for it, who cares right?

Quoted message said:

Chris said:

Nobody said anything about bottom brackets yet...

Yes I did!

to quote:

Quoted message said:

ClydesdaleMTB <[email hidden]> wrote in :"]news:[email hidden]: Rafe
Face North Shore ISIS cranks and BB

Well, I missed that one 🙂 But since we were debating whether or not he should even look at XTR
ders, we damn sure know he doesn't need an XTR bottom bracket.

Quoted message said:

That's funny, I do all my own wrenching and have some XTR stuff on various bikes, I find them to
be quite relaible.. in fact I have not had to re-adjust mine since initial instalation and set-up,
and I am quite known for breaking things. set it and forget it.

I'm glad you've had good luck with your XTR stuff...I imagine anyone flying the clydesdale flag so
high really beats their stuff up. I have seen lots of XTR - shifters are the worst - that simply
give out way too early. Maybe there were just some unfotunate riders around here, but XTR usually
highlights the golden rule of biking: making stuff lighter makes stuff weaker. It's why race rims
need a truing after you look at them funny, why aluminum frames get replaced, and why I feel XT is a
better choice for the original poster.

Quoted message said:

have you ever seen the way "pro's treat their bikes!?!?! quite pitiful, but since thier sponsors
are paying for it, who cares

right?

That was my point. Riders with a support staff in a trailer and a couple of corporate contacts have
nothing to worry about. Guys like me, that can't afford a back-up rear derailleur, do.

From what I've seen, XTR lasts a hardcore rider about one season, hobby riders two or three. The
original poster was putting "extreme reliabilty" above all other concerns. With this in mind, I
really felt XT was a better choice.

Chris

Eric Lafferty <[email hidden]> wrote in :"]news:[email hidden]:

Quoted message said:

Mr. E. Mann said:

Jonathan Bond <[email hidden]> wrote in
:"]news:[email hidden]:

Quoted message said:

Mr. E. Mann wrote:
> ClydesdaleMTB <[email hidden]> wrote in :"]news:[email hidden]:
>
>
>>Mr. E. Mann wrote:
>>
>>>I'm looking for suggestions on setting up a bulletproof drivetrain for my bike. I'm currently
>>>riding on the street mostly, but plan to get offroading soon. Anyway, I'm planning on
>>>replacing the deraileurs, shifters, cranks, chain and possibly the wheels. I'm looking for
>>>very light and (most importantly) extremely reliable. I've been out of the loop for too many
>>>years to really know what's what.
>>
>>Shimano XT 8speed shifter pods, XT Rear Derailer XTR front Derailer Rafe Face North Shore ISIS
>>cranks and BB SRAM chain PC48 and cassette chainrings are "consumables"
>>
>
>
> Thanks for the (serious) replies. I'm surprised that so many people would rather throw out the
> bike instead of upgrading. Seems like a waste of money to me since I would want to change
> things on a bike that cost more that three times what I paid on this one. My main concern was
> to upgrade my deraulers since everything I read about Acera indicates they are [censored] and the
> performance I've been geting out of them was poor and noisy. Also, from what I've heard it's
> becoming difficult to get 8 speed parts since 9 speed seems to be the "in" thing. If I can get
> a good 8 speed setup, I'll live with the cranks I have now. I don't really need any more gears
> on the back, since I don't use the largest sprocket on the back (does anyone?). If anything I
> would want to change the casette to something that will give a little better top end. I'm
> still heavily leaning toward XTR front and rear deraulers, because of all the great reviews
> I've read about them I honestly don't feel that $75 is that much money for a rear derailer. I
> Guess I've never been that much of a penny pincher.
>
If you're not that much of a penny pincher, then for godsakes buy a new bike!

Like I said, I'm not a penny pincher. I would never be able to save up enough money to get a
$1000.00 bike.

Quoted message said:

You're not just paying for a drivetrain on a new bike. You're paying for a quality frame (the
heart and soul of a bike), quality fork (very important!), quality wheels (also extremely
important), and a fit oriented towards trail riding, not sidewalk riding.

But I do a LOT of "sidewalk" riding!

Quoted message said:

You can hang the nicest parts on a mediocre frame, and it won't feel like a nice bike. It just
won't. You're far better off getting a more expensive bike, for less than the cost of an XTR
drivetrain, with XT/LX mix, a decent fork (which will do wonders for your riding), decent
wheels (accelerate faster, stronger, stay true), and most importantly, a frame that will last,
be comfortable, and help your riding.

If it comes to the point where my frame feels uncomfortable, or needs replacing, I'll replace it.
For now, it feels fine and fits fine.

Quoted message said:

If you're going to drop 125 bux on XTR derailleurs... and you should probably get new shifters,
because they make a huge difference.... not to mention new cassette, which will be slightly
more speed oriented, plus a new crankset, which will have larger chainrings, hence be faster,
than your lower end setup; it comes to a lot of dosh. a LOT.

Yes, but not as much as buying a bike with all the parts I want on
it. Believe it or not, I enjoy the whole process of upgrading. I'm the same way with my computer.
I've only bought one complete computer and that was over ten years ago.

Quoted message said:

Do yourself a favor, and buy a bike around the $800-1000 pricemark. And not a full suspension
at that price! Get a quality hardtail, with LX/XT mix (probably XT derailleur, LX everything
else at that price, maybe XT/XTR if you get a really good deal on last year's model), some
great wheels, and a decent fork (look for marzocchi, but don't discount a bike that fits you
and feels great if its got rockshox or manitou... anything else, look elsewhere!).

I've read some pretty bad reviews of RockShox. I'm going to assume it's only the cheaper ones
that suck?

Quoted message said:

Do yourself a favor, don't bother upgrading. Ride your bike until stuff breaks (and you know
you want to invest in mountain biking, not just sidewalk riding) and buy a new one, or sell
your bike now and get a new one.

But I do a lot of Sidewalk riding! I enjoy it!!!

Quoted message said:

Jon Bond types damn well for having some... uh... milk. Yeah. with some kahlua especial... I
mean, more milk. yeah, thats it...

PS: for anybody that cares to listen to some GREAT jazz/funk, get some Joshua Redman or some
Soulive... just saw both tonight. Josh Redman is an AMAZING saxophonist, with a great
drummer (he's insanely good!) and keyboardist backing him up. Soulive is a trio
- drummer, guitarist, bassist/keyboardist/organist. Fantastic music.

If you ride on sidewalks - which you shouldn't do as it's the least safe place to have a bike if
you wan to pass through intersections -

Actually, I find that riding in the bike lane is probably one of the most dangerous places to ride.
People are always drifting into the bike lane and I've had several close calls over the past month
or riding to work and back. The closest call was a delivery/moving truck that missed hitting the end
of my bars by about an inch. Of course, when I'm on the sidewalk, I pretend I'm invisible. I slow
down or stop for every intersection and check behind me for cars making a right turn and I ALWAYS
give the cars the right of way.

Quoted message said:

you do not XTR deraileurs. The cranks will effect your front shifting much more than the front
deraileur. Shifters will affect the rear shifting more than the deraileur also.

What you are asking is like saying I have a small economy car, but I want to make it faster, so
I'll put parts from a sports car on it. Yes, maybe it's better, but not a lot.

Actually, a bike and a car are nothing alike other than they both have wheels and some gears. Any
comparison is a bit of a stretch. Anyway, you guys have given me a lot to think on and I will
probably go with XT when I do replace my drivetrain. Thanks for all the advice and comments. It
realy is appreciated.