Any advice for marathon two weeks after 10K race?

On 22 Jan 2004 12:40:37 -0800, [email hidden] (Kaz Kylheku)

Quoted message said:

In late spring, I would like to run a 10K race, and then a marathon exactly two weeks later. Any
training advice? According to some marathon training wisdom, I should be doing my last 20+ miler on
that day, not racing 10K!

Do you REALLY - honestly and truthfully - think that training schedules are THAT prescriptive
or accurate?

Quoted message said:

I'd like to run both races hard. If this can't be done, I simply won't do the 10K, since there is
no question of sacrificing the marathon competely, or sacrificing performance in that event. But I
hear the challenge calling.

It's a pity you can't hear common sense screaming "What's all the fuss about? You can do a hard 10k
two weeks before a marathon without compromising either race".

Quoted message said:

Should I race the 10, then wait a few days and squeeze in the long run?

That would make perfect sense to me.

Quoted message said:

If I do the long run in the days leading up to the 10, that will almost certainly spoil the 10.

Probably, so why even mention it?

Quoted message said:

If I go with the 10, I will have to do a long run a week before it, keeping in mind the marathon,
and then do just some 10K-specific work for the rest of that week. Tempo runs, a bit of track.

Huh? Assuming you've been sensible in your marathon training and kept at least one pure speed
session per week, I would change nothing. You won't run your best 10k ever, but you may surprise
yourself nevertheless.

I don't know... *mutter, mutter*...fools and their training plans...*guffaw, guffaw*...

In article said:

In late spring, I would like to run a 10K race, and then a marathon exactly two weeks later. Any
training advice? According to some marathon training wisdom, I should be doing my last 20+ miler
on that day, not racing 10K!

A lot of training programs involve doing the last "long run" 3 weeks before the race.

Quoted message said:

I'd like to run both races hard. If this can't be done, I simply won't do the 10K, since there is
no question of sacrificing the marathon competely, or sacrificing performance in that event. But I
hear the challenge calling.

Should I race the 10, then wait a few days and squeeze in the long run? Or just view the hard 10
as a replacement for the last long run, and enter into tapering mode?

If I do the long run in the days leading up to the 10, that will almost certainly spoil the 10. If
I go with the 10, I will have to do a long run a week before it,

Yes, you could do that. (good idea IMO)

Quoted message said:

keeping in mind the marathon, and then do just some 10K-specific work for the rest of that week.
Tempo runs, a bit of track.

I think this is the point where the 10k race crosses the line from being a fun buildup race to being
a distraction and possibly a nuisance.

It's true that 10k is shorter than the marathon, but the basic principle -- that the last week of
training is too late to do anything about your performance still holds. Squeezing in a little bit
of "10k specific" training at the last minute will do very little to help, but your marathon
training is probably specific enough to produce a good 10k performance anyway. You could vastly
exceed your expectations, or you could fall short. It's hard to know what to expect (it's better to
simply not have expectations). Either way, enjoy the 10k but don't grant it higher status than a
"fun buildup race".

Cheers,
--
Donovan Rebbechi pegasus.rutgers.edu~elflordOpen ↗

In article <[email hidden]>,

(Kaz Kylheku) said:

In late spring, I would like to run a 10K race, and then a marathon exactly two weeks later. Any
training advice? According to some marathon training wisdom, I should be doing my last 20+ miler
on that day, not racing 10K!

I'd do my 20-miler three weeks out, not two.

Quoted message said:

I'd like to run both races hard. If this can't be done, I simply won't do the 10K, since there is
no question of sacrificing the marathon competely, or sacrificing performance in that event. But I
hear the challenge calling.

It's probably easier to pull off doing the 10K then a Marathon than the opposite, but I wouldn't do
it myself.

--Harold Buck

"I used to rock and roll all night, and party every day. Then it was every other day. . . ."

- Homer J. Simpson

Try to run slower the first half of the 10k. Running on tight muscle and trying to hold a pace is
much harder to recover from then running the second half faster and trying to pick the pace up. You
could always run a couple easy miles afterwards ... Or, I have good result when I ran a 10k not
running for a PR or best time ... and then running steady paced 10k the next day concentrating on
form ... try to have the total 12.4 mile over two days to equal your marathon goal pace. Roy

[email hidden] (Kaz Kylheku) wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

In late spring, I would like to run a 10K race, and then a marathon exactly two weeks later. Any
training advice? According to some marathon training wisdom, I should be doing my last 20+ miler
on that day, not racing 10K!

I'd like to run both races hard. If this can't be done, I simply won't do the 10K, since there is
no question of sacrificing the marathon competely, or sacrificing performance in that event. But I
hear the challenge calling.

No reason not to, and a good 10K would be good input into a pacing plan for the marathon.

Quoted message said:

Should I race the 10, then wait a few days and squeeze in the long run? Or just view the hard 10
as a replacement for the last long run, and enter into tapering mode?

Do the last long run 3 weeks out, then it's a week before your 10K and unless you run it like an
idiot you'll recover just fine for the 10K.

Quoted message said:

If I do the long run in the days leading up to the 10, that will almost certainly spoil the 10. If
I go with the 10, I will have to do a long run a week before it, keeping in mind the marathon, and
then do just some 10K-specific work for the rest of that week. Tempo runs, a bit of track.

No it won't, and don't bother with any 10K specific work. It takes 10-14 days for any physiological
impact of training, so it's not going to do you any good that late. You should be doing tempo work
and some long intervals in your marathon plan. Do the long run 3 weeks out, the 10K 2, taper 14 days
and you'll be fine.

Keith Stone Winston Salem, NC

Kaz Kylheku said:

In late spring, I would like to run a 10K race, and then a marathon exactly two weeks later. Any
training advice? According to some marathon training wisdom, I should be doing my last 20+ miler
on that day, not racing 10K!

While most people have pointed out that the last long run is typically recommended 3 weeks before
the Marathon, I have followed the Owen Anderson (peak performance) school of thought in my marathons
and run it 4 weeks before. His theory is that the body needs time to recover *before* the marathon,
and any long runs (20+ miles) during the last 4 weeks will hamper that recovery. I get very focussed
leading up to a marathon, and would most likely skip the 10K race also.

Quoted message said:

I'd like to run both races hard. If this can't be done, I simply won't do the 10K, since there is
no question of sacrificing the marathon competely, or sacrificing performance in that event. But I
hear the challenge calling.

At that stage of your training it is probably more beneficial to be doing marathon pace runs, rather
than a 10K race.

Quoted message said:

Should I race the 10, then wait a few days and squeeze in the long run? Or just view the hard 10
as a replacement for the last long run, and enter into tapering mode?

If I do the long run in the days leading up to the 10, that will almost certainly spoil the 10. If
I go with the 10, I will have to do a long run a week before it, keeping in mind the marathon, and
then do just some 10K-specific work for the rest of that week. Tempo runs, a bit of track.

A long run a week before a 10K race shouldn't have any adverse effect. During the week before the
race tempo/track will have little effect on your 10K race performance. If you do decide to race the
10K (and again I would skip, it or run it at MP) don't worry about any special workouts.

Anthony.

Geez, don't do a 20-miler that close! Do it three weeks out, then race the 10K. That's my standard
take and it has worked out pretty well. Andy Hass