What wheels would you choose?

The wheel that is more aerodynamic will be faster. So if you can deal with the carbon (uneven
braking? and other drawbacks?) then get them.

For similar style riding I selected American Classic 420 aluminum wheels - light, aero,
medium price.

Bruce

"Robert Brown" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

All,

Aware that I'm treading on old ground again, and am aware of many of the pros and cons for the
following choices, but I'm after opinions just the same:

Two choices for wheels (clinchers, let's say):

1. Light conventional wheels (of type Mavic OP / Campag Rec / 15-16 DB, poss. 28sp)

2. Deep profile Carbon (of type Corima Aero 18-24 spoked)

Both 1 and 2 have similar weights (700g front, 900g back).

Application is long-distance rides, 100-300 km, not so hilly terrain, fairly even tempo, single
rider averaging 33 km/h (20 mph). In peleton, avg 40 km/h.

Alt. 2 costs about double that of alt. 1 but money is no object (well, it is, since I have
excluded alt. 3, Campag Hyperon)

Considering your own riding habits (if they match the above application), which alternative would
*you* buy, today?

/Robert

robert-<< Two choices for wheels (clinchers, let's say):

1. Light conventional wheels (of type Mavic OP / Campag Rec / 15-16 DB, poss. 28sp)

2. Deep profile Carbon (of type Corima Aero 18-24 spoked) >><BR><BR>

<< Both 1 and 2 have similar weights (700g front, 900g back). >><BR><BR> << Considering your own
riding habits (if they match the above application), which alternative would *you* buy, today?

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

<BR><BR>

Why would you spend twice as much on a wheelset that will perform the same as another, assuming both
are reliable, and perhaps either would not be?

Bike equipment is there to get you thru the ride and generally adds little to your cycling
performance. BUT if something breaks, then the cycling experience is certainly interrupted.

Get a good wheelbuilder to build you a set specifically for you and your needs, take the extra money
and go on a cycling trip, or get a series of massages, or something.

Peter Chisholm Vecchio's Bicicletteria 1833 Pearl St. Boulder, CO, 80302
(3)440-3535 vecchios.comvecchios.comOpen ↗ "Ruote convenzionali costruite eccezionalmente bene"

Qui si parla Campagnolo said:

robert-<<

---8<--cut

Quoted message said:

<< Considering your own riding habits (if they match the above application), which alternative
would *you* buy, today? >><BR><BR>

Why would you spend twice as much on a wheelset that will perform the same as another, assuming
both are reliable, and perhaps either would not be?

Bike equipment is there to get you thru the ride and generally adds little to your cycling
performance. BUT if something breaks, then the cycling experience is certainly interrupted.

Get a good wheelbuilder to build you a set specifically for you and your needs, take the extra
money and go on a cycling trip, or get a series of massages, or something.

This is all quite true Peter. I am aware of trade-offs concerning price, performance, durability.
It is not my intention to ask for the definitive answer. That's been explored on countless other
threads here these past 5-10 years. As far as wheelbuilding goes, I've built quite a few and
broken only one spoke ever (this is of course the drawback with buying the Corimas - no
satisfaction of building the wheelset myself ...). As far as price goes, that doesn't matter a
bit. I can spend up to USD 1500 but I don't care if they only cost USD 500. Economics factor is
low, fun factor is high here ;-)

I am more trying to find out how the riders in this NG themselves have made the similar choice, when
they have been in a similar position. Not so much from the wheelbuilder's view (no disrespect
intended), more from the buying cyclist's view. What do most of you cyclists enjoy the most?

/Robert

Robert Brown said:

Considering your own riding habits (if they match the above application), which alternative would
*you* buy, today?

My riding is frequently as long as you describe and I get to go pretty far away from a bike shop or
telephone. <http://www.caltriplecrown.com/Fame.htm#PK>

I've regularly used Mavic Open or Velocity Aerohead rims. Currently the Velocity OC is my
favorite. 28 or 32 holes in rear, butted 14/15 spokes was common combination. I've been
brainwashed by reading this newsgroup and have changed to 32 hole x 15/16 guage spokes front and
rear. The wheels are boring in that there is nothing to do with them because they just stay round
and true. I weigh 200 lbs.

Should a spoke break on a boutique wheel, you frequently finished. If a spoke breaks on a 32 spoke
wheel, you can make minor asjustments and go on.

In your application the weight of the wheel and it's beauty are not factors. You want boring wheels.
In the less costly wheel will be a much better value for you.

"Robert Brown" <[email hidden]>
a écrit dans le message de :"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

All, Two choices for wheels (clinchers, let's say):
1. Light conventional wheels
2. Deep profile Carbon Both 1 and 2 have similar weights (700g front, 900g back).

Quoted message said:

Considering your own riding habits (if they match the above application), which alternative would
*you* buy, today?

Well, it seems you expect this to be the one set of wheels on the one bike I might own. Under those
conditions, I pick the conventional wheel. The long haul tells me that wind will play more of a role
in making for unpleasant days, and thus the Open Pro type is more polyvalent. So I figure .....

Bonne route,

Sandy Paris FR

Robert

Go with alt. 1, but with 32 spokes. Consider a less pricey, extremely durable Ultegra hub.

Robert

SMMB said:

"Robert Brown" <[email hidden]> a écrit dans le message de
:"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

All, Two choices for wheels (clinchers, let's say):
1. Light conventional wheels
2. Deep profile Carbon Both 1 and 2 have similar weights (700g front, 900g back).

Quoted message said:

Considering your own riding habits (if they match the above application), which alternative
would *you* buy, today?

Well, it seems you expect this to be the one set of wheels on the one bike I might own.

----8<---cut

Oops - I forgot to say: the set I have right now (MA3/Veloce/32sp 14 gauge) are fine, though a bit
heavy. I'll keep those wheels for training and [censored] weather.

So it's more a question of having a second pair, more for "performance" purposes.

That may affect the answer somewhat . . .

BR /Robert

Robert Brown said:

Two choices for wheels (clinchers, let's say):

1. Light conventional wheels (of type Mavic OP / Campag Rec / 15-16 DB, poss. 28sp)

2. Deep profile Carbon (of type Corima Aero 18-24 spoked)

You didn't mention your weight and that is definitely a factor.

Something like Option #1 would be my choice. But why 28 spokes? Also, while 15-16-15 spokes may be
fine in a 32 or 36 spoke wheel, a 28 spoke wheel will require higher spoke tension. If you insist on
28 spokes, I'd go with 14-15-14.

I also prefer using slightly thinner spokes on the rear left side due to the lower tension.

Art Harris

"Robert Brown" <[email hidden]> a écrit dans le message de :
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

SMMB said:

"Robert Brown" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Oops - I forgot to say: the set I have right now (MA3/Veloce/32sp 14

gauge) are

Quoted message said:

fine, though a bit heavy. I'll keep those wheels for training and [censored] weather.

So it's more a question of having a second pair, more for "performance" purposes.

Cheat !!

Scrap your original question, then, and its alternatives. Here's the set of real choices I have
made. One pair of Ambrosio Prismas on Campy Chorus ; one pair of Open Pro on Centaur. Were you just
asking us to dream ? Dreaming, then Campy Nucleons or Protons. Simple, light, not too fancy.
Especially, if I have to get around the circuit without any hope of seeing my wife drive up to see
if I need anything, like more money for cycling ...

Bonne route,

Sandy Paris FR

Tom Paterson said:

Quoted message said:

From: Robert Brown

----8<---cut

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I am more trying to find out how the riders in this NG themselves have made thesimilar choice,
when they have been in a similar position.

---8<---cut

Quoted message said:

One wheelset: 36h, 3x brass nipples, butted spokes, low gears, fat tires. The other set
"interesting" inre spoke count, lacing pattern, rim depth, gear/tire choice, etc. (Expert build
cost and warranty might be affected. If an unstocked spoke length were needed, I'd order several
spares in front).

Repeating: No grabby wheels from switching with worn brake pads allowed, otherwise wide open. Set
#2 might even be tubular. Whoa. There's radical for you! --Tom Paterson

Hi Tom, this gives me some insight into what I may really be after - you mention one very sturdy
pair of wheels, and the other pair would be "quite different". Let's hope I'm not missing the main
point of what you're saying.

Given the fact that I already have the sturdier wheels for training, then buying something slightly
weird as the second set would be more fun than just buying a lighter version of what I already have.
Having a variety of wheels is probably more important to me than having something that claims to be
more practical. Thanks - I seem to be getting it sorted ;-)

Time to start a thread on Carbon wheels now . . .

/Robert

Robert Brown said:

This is all quite true Peter. I am aware of trade-offs concerning price, performance, durability.
It is not my intention to ask for the definitive answer. That's been explored on countless other
threads here these past 5-10 years. As far as wheelbuilding goes, I've built quite a few and
broken only one spoke ever (this is of course the drawback with buying the Corimas - no
satisfaction of building the wheelset myself ...). As far as price goes, that doesn't matter a
bit. I can spend up to USD 1500 but I don't care if they only cost USD 500. Economics factor is
low, fun factor is high here ;-)

Ahh - we get to the point - the fun factor. As a baseline, I'll side with Peter on durable. Having a
mechanical (failure) halfway into a long ride seriously erodes the fun factor.

That said, and I assume some of that fun is showing off a bit, why not:
1) Pick a pretty, and perhaps somewhat obscure, but reliable rim
2) Pick a somewhat exotic spoke (don't push the reliable down too much here). Maybe use anodized
colored nipples if you have plenty of spokes and won't get them corroded in bad weather.
3) For some real fun and definite show-off factor, pick an exotic spoke pattern, e.g. crow's
foot or 3-leading 3-trailing that we've seen mentioned on this list. Consider it a building
challenge.

...although the truth be told, show up at a club ride with just a new set of "conventional" wheels
and have people gawk and ask what model wheel *that* is, since they've only seen the Ksyriums etc.

I built some 36-hole (ironically exotic) Campy Lambda aero rims (old stock) on Campy hubs with oval
spokes front and DT revolutions in back. Somewhat odd choices from a performance viewpoint, but the
performance difference is negligible anyway. The 36 spokes allow lattitude in spoke choice (ovals
and rev's). Oval spokes are exotic looking, IMHO, some fun for me. The wheels have proved fully
durable, and I *do* get asked where I got "a wheel like that." Custom-builts are soon to be the
exotic that boutique wheels are today.

Mark (thinking about that crows-foot pattern) Janeba

Robert Brown said:

All,

Two choices for wheels (clinchers, let's say):

1. Light conventional wheels (of type Mavic OP / Campag Rec / 15-16 DB, poss. 28sp)

2. Deep profile Carbon (of type Corima Aero 18-24 spoked)

Both 1 and 2 have similar weights (700g front, 900g back).

Application is long-distance rides, 100-300 km, not so hilly terrain, fairly even tempo, single
rider averaging 33 km/h (20 mph). In peleton, avg 40 km/h.

Robert,

For me, it would depend on what type of ride / event you're talking about.

For well-supported, competitive or quasi-competitive rides, where breaking a spoke or running over a
pothole doesn't necessarily mean walking thirty miles to the nearest phone, I might, at least
briefly, consider option 2, particularly if you already have a set of conventional wheels.

For anything else, and particularly if you're talking about unsupported, randonneur brevet-style
riding, why go with anything other than option 1? Most of the mechanical DNFs and near-DNFs I've
seen on local (Seattle Randonneur) rides have involved low-spoke count wheels. That alone makes me
leery of them.

Trent

Arthur Harris said:

Robert Brown said:

Two choices for wheels (clinchers, let's say):

1. Light conventional wheels (of type Mavic OP / Campag Rec / 15-16 DB, poss. 28sp)

2. Deep profile Carbon (of type Corima Aero 18-24 spoked)

You didn't mention your weight and that is definitely a factor.

Forgot to say. I weigh 72 kg (158 lb).

Quoted message said:

Something like Option #1 would be my choice. But why 28 spokes? Also, while 15-16-15 spokes may be
fine in a 32 or 36 spoke wheel, a 28 spoke wheel will require higher spoke tension. If you insist
on 28 spokes, I'd go with 14-15-14.

Good point on using 14-15-14. Doing the new wheels as 28s is mainly curiosity. I pride myself in
building reliable wheels, but they've all been 36x3, 36x4, 32x3 with 14 or 14-15-14. Pretty
bombproof, especially with the good roads around here (southwest Sweden). Now it's time for a
challenge, by going down to 28s.

Quoted message said:

I also prefer using slightly thinner spokes on the rear left side due to the lower tension.

Good idea - if I decide on solution 1 above, I'll go down a gauge on the rear NDS.

/Robert

SMMB said:

"Robert Brown" <[email hidden]> a écrit dans le message de :
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

SMMB said:

"Robert Brown" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Oops - I forgot to say: the set I have right now (MA3/Veloce/32sp 14

gauge) are

Quoted message said:

fine, though a bit heavy. I'll keep those wheels for training and [censored] weather.

So it's more a question of having a second pair, more for "performance" purposes.

Cheat !!

True ;-)

Quoted message said:

Scrap your original question, then, and its alternatives. Here's the set of real choices I have
made. One pair of Ambrosio Prismas

I've searched for the Prismas but cannot find any info on them. What kind of rim are they?

If I may ask further - is the second pair of wheels just as extras, or are they better-suited for
some particular purpose, compared with the first set?

/Robert

Robert Brown said:

Oops - I forgot to say: the set I have right now (MA3/Veloce/32sp 14 gauge) are fine, though a
bit heavy.

You also said you ride on mostly not hilly terrain at an even tempo. In those conditions you could
probably carry several lead bricks on your bike without a significant difference.

--
Benjamin Lewis

Although the moon is smaller than the earth, it is farther away.

"Robert Brown" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

What do most of you cyclists enjoy the most?

/Robert

I've got the Record with OP rims. Reliability is important to me so I build 36 spoke wheels for
recreational use. I'm considering doing a rebuild with Velocity Arrowhead rims this year. Have you
thought of those rims as an option?

Robert Brown said:

Given the fact that I already have the sturdier wheels for training, then buying something
slightly weird as the second set would be more fun than just buying a lighter version of what I
already have. Having a variety of wheels is probably more important to me than having something
that claims to be more practical. Thanks - I seem to be getting it sorted ;-)

Time to start a thread on Carbon wheels now . . .

www.topolinotech.com

Kevlar and carbon fiber spokes, carbon fiber composite hubs, aluminum rims. 1390 grams per pair for
700c clinchers ( 24 spokes front, 30 spokes rear).

-=Dave=-

Benjamin Lewis said:

Robert Brown said:

Oops - I forgot to say: the set I have right now (MA3/Veloce/32sp 14 gauge) are fine, though a
bit heavy.

You also said you ride on mostly not hilly terrain at an even tempo. In those conditions you could
probably carry several lead bricks on your bike without a significant difference.

Sure I could. Again, my goal is not to claim that the options I am presenting are the best
available, I'm just trying to find out how other people reason when they buy their wheels.

Lead bricks aside, what factors did you weigh in when you bought *your* wheels?

/Robert

Topolino wheels>> Please explain how fat spokes with big fat adjusters near the rim (cutting into
the wind at almost twice to road speed) are faster. Do you ride in a vacuum? Does air resistance not
effect you? Do you have any wind tunnel testing that compares similar shape rim with thin steel
spokes to these?

And I have similar questions about those Mavic wheels with thick aluminum spokes. Does their wide
cross section make them more aero even though their frontal section is still wider then a thin round
steel spoke? These same rims are available with steel spokes. Does anyone have results comparing the
two versions?

Sure both designs are visibly different but are they faster?

Bruce

"Dave" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Robert Brown said:

Given the fact that I already have the sturdier wheels for training,

then buying

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

something slightly weird as the second set would be more fun than just

buying a

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

lighter version of what I already have. Having a variety of wheels is

probably more

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

important to me than having something that claims to be more practical.

Thanks - I

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

seem to be getting it sorted ;-)

Time to start a thread on Carbon wheels now . . .

www.topolinotech.com

Kevlar and carbon fiber spokes, carbon fiber composite hubs, aluminum rims. 1390 grams per pair
for 700c clinchers ( 24 spokes front, 30 spokes rear).

-=Dave=-