2400 kcal high-carb diet equals weight loss

yo! <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

I like this part of the article: "The whole idea that you could lose weight without reducing
energy intake flies in the face of 100 years of data".

-------------- ÀÎÅÍ³Ý Ä«¸®½º¸¶ KORNET -------------

Also:

"Foods on the successful diets included high-fiber cereal, vegetarian chili, whole-wheat spaghetti,
many fruits and vegetables, and skim milk. Daily calories totaled about 2,400, similar to
participants' usual consumption.

The control group also received prepared meals with similar calories, but the foods included
sausage, scrambled eggs, macaroni and cheese, French fries, whole milk and fewer fruits and
vegetables."

The "high carb" diet seems to have less refined grains and other high-GI foods than the supposedly
"low carb" diet. Talk about fudging a study. The test group ate whole-wheat spaghetti and high fiber
cereal. The control group ate macaroni and french fries. Mixing up the carbs to give false findings.

TC

tcomeau said:

The "high carb" diet seems to have less refined grains and other high-GI foods than the supposedly
"low carb" diet. Talk about fudging a study. The test group ate whole-wheat spaghetti and high
fiber cereal. The control group ate macaroni and french fries. Mixing up the carbs to give false
findings.

TC

TC, you have been insisting for as long as I have been reading this ng that a carb is a carb is a
carb. What happened?

--
jmk in NC

On 27 Jan 2004 11:39:04 -0800, [email hidden] (tcomeau) posted:

Quoted message said:

yo! <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

I like this part of the article: "The whole idea that you could lose weight without reducing
energy intake flies in the face of 100 years of data".

-------------- ÀÎÅÍ³Ý Ä«¸®½º¸¶ KORNET -------------

Also:

"Foods on the successful diets included high-fiber cereal, vegetarian chili, whole-wheat spaghetti,
many fruits and vegetables, and skim milk. Daily calories totaled about 2,400, similar to
participants' usual consumption.

The control group also received prepared meals with similar calories, but the foods included
sausage, scrambled eggs, macaroni and cheese, French fries, whole milk and fewer fruits and
vegetables."

The "high carb" diet seems to have less refined grains and other high-GI foods than the supposedly
"low carb" diet.

SEEMED? Haved you actually looked up the GIs of these foods?

Quoted message said:

Talk about fudging a study.

Like most of the studies that aren't measured properly.

Quoted message said:

The test group ate whole-wheat spaghetti and high fiber cereal.

Which can be quite high GI. Like the fresh fruit they ate.

Quoted message said:

The control group ate macaroni and french fries.

Which can be quite low GI

Quoted message said:

Mixing up the carbs to give false findings.

What mixing are you complaining about? Try looking up the GIs of the different diets and then come
back with an informed comment.

Moosh🙂

jmk <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

tcomeau said:

The "high carb" diet seems to have less refined grains and other high-GI foods than the
supposedly "low carb" diet. Talk about fudging a study. The test group ate whole-wheat spaghetti
and high fiber cereal. The control group ate macaroni and french fries. Mixing up the carbs to
give false findings.

TC

TC, you have been insisting for as long as I have been reading this ng that a carb is a carb is a
carb. What happened?

Wrong. Do not put words in my mouth. I have always diferentiated between junk carbs and good carbs.
The only way to get too many carbs in the diet in general is by consuming junk carbs.

A diet with only whole-food carbs, minus starchy tubers and highly genetically modified carbs (like
super-sweet corn), makes it virtually impossible to consume too many carbs.

In other words, restrict junk carbs.

TC

"Moosh🙂" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

On 27 Jan 2004 11:39:04 -0800, [email hidden] (tcomeau) posted:

Quoted message said:

yo! <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

I like this part of the article: "The whole idea that you could lose weight without reducing
energy intake flies in the face of 100 years of data".

-------------- ÀÎÅÍ³Ý Ä«¸®½º¸¶ KORNET -------------

Also:

"Foods on the successful diets included high-fiber cereal, vegetarian chili, whole-wheat
spaghetti, many fruits and vegetables, and skim milk. Daily calories totaled about 2,400, similar
to participants' usual consumption.

The control group also received prepared meals with similar calories, but the foods included
sausage, scrambled eggs, macaroni and cheese, French fries, whole milk and fewer fruits and
vegetables."

The "high carb" diet seems to have less refined grains and other high-GI foods than the
supposedly "low carb" diet.

SEEMED? Haved you actually looked up the GIs of these foods?

Quoted message said:

Talk about fudging a study.

Like most of the studies that aren't measured properly.

Quoted message said:

The test group ate whole-wheat spaghetti and high fiber cereal.

Which can be quite high GI. Like the fresh fruit they ate.

Quoted message said:

The control group ate macaroni and french fries.

Which can be quite low GI

Quoted message said:

Mixing up the carbs to give false findings.

What mixing are you complaining about? Try looking up the GIs of the different diets and then come
back with an informed comment.

Moosh🙂

I think you have croosed the line into the troll category. You are making noise just to make noise.
Your arguments are no longer based on any facts, just nonsense. Until you come up with some real
science to prove your points, you might as well just be quiet.

TC

tcomeau said:

jmk <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

tcomeau said:

The "high carb" diet seems to have less refined grains and other high-GI foods than the
supposedly "low carb" diet. Talk about fudging a study. The test group ate whole-wheat spaghetti
and high fiber cereal. The control group ate macaroni and french fries. Mixing up the carbs to
give false findings.

TC

TC, you have been insisting for as long as I have been reading this ng that a carb is a carb is a
carb. What happened?

Wrong. Do not put words in my mouth. I have always diferentiated between junk carbs and good
carbs. The only way to get too many carbs in the diet in general is by consuming junk carbs.

A diet with only whole-food carbs, minus starchy tubers and highly genetically modified carbs
(like super-sweet corn), makes it virtually impossible to consume too many carbs.

OK, this is interesting. Could you please classify the following items into good or junk?

Kashi Good Friends cereal (kashi.comgoodfriends.htmlOpen ↗) Milk (skim) Grapefruit Orange
Apple Banana Blueberry Carrot (baby) Wasa crispbread
(us.wasa.comproduct.jspOpen ↗) Plain yogurt
(stonyfield.comLabel.cfmOpen ↗)

--
jmk in NC

jmk <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

tcomeau said:

The "high carb" diet seems to have less refined grains and other high-GI foods than the
supposedly "low carb" diet. Talk about fudging a study. The test group ate whole-wheat spaghetti
and high fiber cereal. The control group ate macaroni and french fries. Mixing up the carbs to
give false findings.

TC

TC, you have been insisting for as long as I have been reading this ng that a carb is a carb is a
carb. What happened?

I've always stressed that we eat too many carbs. The villain has always been the high-carb-dense
refined carbs like sugar and refined white flour. Without these carb dense refined foods it would
actually be difficult to eat enough carbs to make much difference.

Try to get 100 grams of carbs from a salad, you'll be full way before you even approach 100 grams,
yet many small young kids daily and routinely walk out of convenience stores carrying at least that
many carbs in a large jug in one hand.

TC

tcomeau said:

jmk <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

tcomeau said:

The "high carb" diet seems to have less refined grains and other high-GI foods than the
supposedly "low carb" diet. Talk about fudging a study. The test group ate whole-wheat spaghetti
and high fiber cereal. The control group ate macaroni and french fries. Mixing up the carbs to
give false findings.

TC

TC, you have been insisting for as long as I have been reading this ng that a carb is a carb is a
carb. What happened?

I've always stressed that we eat too many carbs. The villain has always been the high-carb-dense
refined carbs like sugar and refined white flour. Without these carb dense refined foods it would
actually be difficult to eat enough carbs to make much difference.

I'm not sure that is the case. I get most of my carbs from fruits and dairy (milk and yogurt). I
don't have a problem with moderate to low carb diets at all, I just don't think that's the WOE for
me at the moment, you know? I also eat a lot of whole grains on some days but most days it's the
fruits that make up most of the carbohydrates in my diet.

--
jmk in NC

jmk said:

tcomeau said:

jmk <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

tcomeau wrote:

> The "high carb" diet seems to have less refined grains and other high-GI foods than the
> supposedly "low carb" diet. Talk about fudging a study. The test group ate whole-wheat
> spaghetti and high fiber cereal. The control group ate macaroni and french fries. Mixing up the
> carbs to give false findings.
>
> TC

TC, you have been insisting for as long as I have been reading this ng that a carb is a carb is
a carb. What happened?

Wrong. Do not put words in my mouth. I have always diferentiated between junk carbs and good
carbs. The only way to get too many carbs in the diet in general is by consuming junk carbs.

A diet with only whole-food carbs, minus starchy tubers and highly genetically modified carbs
(like super-sweet corn), makes it virtually impossible to consume too many carbs.

OK, this is interesting. Could you please classify the following items into good or junk?

Kashi Good Friends cereal (kashi.comgoodfriends.htmlOpen ↗) Milk (skim) Grapefruit Orange
Apple Banana Blueberry Carrot (baby) Wasa crispbread
(us.wasa.comproduct.jspOpen ↗) Plain yogurt
(stonyfield.comLabel.cfmOpen ↗)

TC, I would seriously like your thoughts on these foods. You say that foods are either good carbs or
junk carbs, is that right? In your opinion, which category do the above foods fall into?

--
jmk in NC

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I've always stressed that we eat too many carbs. The villain has always been the high-carb-
dense refined carbs like sugar and refined white flour. Without these carb dense refined foods
it would

actually

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

be difficult to eat enough carbs to make much difference.

I'm not sure that is the case. I get most of my carbs from fruits and dairy (milk and yogurt). I
don't have a problem with moderate to low carb diets at all, I just don't think that's the WOE for
me at the moment, you know? I also eat a lot of whole grains on some days but most days it's the
fruits that make up most of the carbohydrates in my diet.

Then you might be on LC WOE without knowing it 🙂

It could be hard to eat significantly above 100g of carbs a day on diet you are suggesting...

100g of carbs is about 2 lb of plain yogurt or 8 oranges etc...

Of course, any grains or sugar sweetened yougurt will take you over rather easily.

Mirek

jmk <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

<snip>

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

OK, this is interesting. Could you please classify the following items into good or junk?

Kashi Good Friends cereal (kashi.comgoodfriends.htmlOpen ↗) Milk (skim) Grapefruit Orange
Apple Banana Blueberry Carrot (baby) Wasa crispbread
(us.wasa.comproduct.jspOpen ↗) Plain yogurt
(stonyfield.comLabel.cfmOpen ↗)

TC, I would seriously like your thoughts on these foods. You say that foods are either good carbs
or junk carbs, is that right? In your opinion, which category do the above foods fall into?

My opinion? This is just my opinion.

****************
Kashi Good Friends cereal

Nutrition Facts Serving Size 30g = approx. 3/4 cup Serving Per Container:12 Calories: 90 Calories
From Fat: 10

*Percent Daily Values (DV) are based on a 2,000 calorie diet. Amount/Serving %DV*
Amount/Serving %DV*

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Total Fat 1g* 2% Total Carb 24g 8% Saturated Fat 0g 0% Dietary Fiber 8g 32% Cholesterol 0mg 0%
Sugars 6g Sodium 70mg 3% Protein 3g

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Vitamin A 0% Vitamin C 0% Calcium 0% Iron 2%

Fairly high in carbs. Few vitamins. Eat sparingly if at all. Little or no nutritional value. * Skim
milk. Fine. Milk can be a problem for digestion but if you can tolerate it, go ahead. Neither here
nor there. Note that the countries with the highest consumption of dairy have the highest incidence
of osteoporosis. * Grapefruit. Fine. Its a whole carb. * Orange. Fine. * Apple. Fine. Kinda empty of
much nutrition, though. * Banana. high GI. I wouldn't make a meal of nothing but bananas. But I'll
have one once in a while. * Blueberry. I love 'em. Watch them pies though, lots of added sugar. *
Carrot (baby). Not bad. I prefer the big carrots, eat them regularly. Baby carrots contain a bit
more sugars. * Wasa crispbread (us.wasa.comproduct.jspOpen ↗) 9 grams
of carbs per slice. Little in vitamins. Eat sparingly. Rye bread has a lower Glycemic load than
wheat. If I eat bread, I eat pretty much only rye bread and rarely more than one slice in a meal. *
Plain yogurt, OK. Watch the yogurts with the added sugars.

More importantly is in the context that you eat these foods. A typical meal should contain from 2 to
4 oz. of protein - fish, chicken, pork, beef, etc. Along with this goes a good serving of veggies
such as broccoli, cauliflower, carrots, peas, etc. All the green salad you want with lots of good
fats like olive oil (home made vinaigrettes are great, no added sugars).

Carbs to avoid:

-soda and other sugar or sugar added drinks, completely lacking in nutritional value, also sweetened
juices, especially those targetted towards kids like Sunny Dee orange/sugar syrup -potatoes (eat in
smaller portions) -refined white nutritionally bereft wheat flour- spaghetti, pizza crust, bread,
cake, donuts, cookies, etc.

Oh yeah, drink enough H2O and get regular exercise. Does this not sound like a reasonable diet? This
is what low-carbing is about.

TC

Mirek Fidler said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I've always stressed that we eat too many carbs. The villain has always been the high-carb-dense
refined carbs like sugar and refined white flour. Without these carb dense refined foods it would

actually

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

be difficult to eat enough carbs to make much difference.

I'm not sure that is the case. I get most of my carbs from fruits and dairy (milk and yogurt). I
don't have a problem with moderate to low carb diets at all, I just don't think that's the WOE for
me at the moment, you know? I also eat a lot of whole grains on some days but most days it's the
fruits that make up most of the carbohydrates in my diet.

Then you might be on LC WOE without knowing it 🙂

It could be hard to eat significantly above 100g of carbs a day on diet you are suggesting...

100g of carbs is about 2 lb of plain yogurt or 8 oranges etc...

Of course, any grains or sugar sweetened yougurt will take you over rather easily.

Hmm, I tend to be on a "whole food" diet -- whole fruit, veggies and some whole grains as well. I do
fine on added sugars, I think, but my total carb count is well over 100 g per day. I'm not really
trying to be on a low-carb diet.

--
jmk in NC

tcomeau said:

Carbs to avoid:

-soda and other sugar or sugar added drinks, completely lacking in nutritional value, also
sweetened juices, especially those targetted towards kids like Sunny Dee orange/sugar syrup -
potatoes (eat in smaller portions) -refined white nutritionally bereft wheat flour- spaghetti,
pizza crust, bread, cake, donuts, cookies, etc.

What are your thoughts on whole wheat pastas, sweet potatoes and squashes (acorn, butternut,
spaghetti)?

--
jmk in NC

jmk <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Mirek Fidler said:

Quoted message said:

>I've always stressed that we eat too many carbs. The villain has always been the high-carb-
>dense refined carbs like sugar and refined white flour. Without these carb dense refined foods
>it would

actually

Quoted message said:

>be difficult to eat enough carbs to make much difference.

I'm not sure that is the case. I get most of my carbs from fruits and dairy (milk and yogurt). I
don't have a problem with moderate to low carb diets at all, I just don't think that's the WOE
for me at the moment, you know? I also eat a lot of whole grains on some days but most days it's
the fruits that make up most of the carbohydrates in my diet.

Then you might be on LC WOE without knowing it 🙂

It could be hard to eat significantly above 100g of carbs a day on diet you are suggesting...

100g of carbs is about 2 lb of plain yogurt or 8 oranges etc...

Of course, any grains or sugar sweetened yougurt will take you over rather easily.

Hmm, I tend to be on a "whole food" diet -- whole fruit, veggies and some whole grains as well. I
do fine on added sugars, I think, but my total carb count is well over 100 g per day. I'm not
really trying to be on a low-carb diet.

Following the Zone Diet a full grown typical male will eat a max of around 110 grams of carbs per
day. Eating whole foods it is easy to do. Eating donuts, pasta, sugar loaded [censored], soda, potatoes,
fries, etc, it is virtually impossible.

The other factor is glycemic index. The faster the absorption of the carb the higher the insulin
spike and the more the body wants to store everything and anything as fat. Guess which carbs have a
high glycemic load..... refined sugars, grains and some starchy veggies such as potatoes. Hence the
term *junk carbs*.

TC

Quoted message said:

Hmm, I tend to be on a "whole food" diet -- whole fruit, veggies and some whole grains as well. I
do fine on added sugars, I think, but my total carb count is well over 100 g per day.

Have counted ? 🙂

Quoted message said:

I'm not really trying to be on a low-carb diet.

Does not matter. From my perspective, your diet is pretty close to what LC should be. Remove
grains, add some protein and you will get what I believe my maintainance phase should look like.

Mirek

jmk <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

tcomeau said:

Carbs to avoid:

-soda and other sugar or sugar added drinks, completely lacking in nutritional value, also
sweetened juices, especially those targetted towards kids like Sunny Dee orange/sugar syrup -
potatoes (eat in smaller portions) -refined white nutritionally bereft wheat flour- spaghetti,
pizza crust, bread, cake, donuts, cookies, etc.

What are your thoughts on whole wheat pastas,

Better than refined white wheat pasta but still fairly high glycemic load. Eat small portions
if at all.

Quoted message said:

sweet potatoes and

I don't eat these so I've never checked the carb content. My guess is that one ought to keep the
portions small if you eat them at all. I would treat them like regular potatoes.

Quoted message said:

squashes (acorn, butternut, spaghetti)?

Again, I don't know the carb content off the top of my head, but being a whole food veggy, I'd say
go for it. Sounds good to me, nutritionally anyways, I was never a fan of the taste of squashes.

TC

tcomeau said:

Quoted message said:

sweet potatoes and

I don't eat these so I've never checked the carb content. My guess is that one ought to keep the
portions small if you eat them at all. I would treat them like regular potatoes.

Actually, I don't even think that they are in the same family as the white potato -- like russets,
yukon gold. Ah, they are in the morning glory family.

--
jmk in NC

(tcomeau) said:

I don't eat these so I've never checked the carb content. My guess is that one ought to keep the
portions small if you eat them at all. I would treat them like regular potatoes.

Boil it max 6-7 minutes. If boiled for longer time, GI increases dramatically. Important for
diabetics who want to eat pasta.

jmk <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

tcomeau said:

Quoted message said:

sweet potatoes and

I don't eat these so I've never checked the carb content. My guess is that one ought to keep the
portions small if you eat them at all. I would treat them like regular potatoes.

Actually, I don't even think that they are in the same family as the white potato -- like russets,
yukon gold. Ah, they are in the morning glory family.

Sweet potato, baked w/skin (large) 44g carbs

Potatoes, baked, flesh and skin, without salt, 1 potato, 42.72 grams carbs

TC