Road bikes

How cheap is cheap BTW?

Cheap in a bike shop is £200 - that'll get you a perfectly reasonable bottom of their range. It
should be ahead of anything from a supermarket. If you want something with drop bars it'll be a lot
more than that - economies of scale & stuff. One good thing about good bike shops is the after
sales service. See www.bicycledoctor.co.uk - they give you some free services on your bike in the
first year so everything will still be running like clockwork. Try and wrangle something like that
if you get your bike from your LBS. Free lights is worth going for as well. You save on the full
price, they lose only the trade price so they prefer that to an equivalent discount on the bike.
You might need to add extra for mudguards and rack. If you get 'em from the shop they'll fit it for
you, if you get it from Argos or similar you'll save a few squid (ad have some fun trying to bolt
them on :-)

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in message <[email hidden]>, anonymous coward

(') said:

Doki said:

Quoted message said:

Not really bothered about luggage (assuming it's halfway sane to ride a bike with a small
rucksack with your lunch in).

It'd probably be very worthwhile buying a saddle-bag or handlebar bag. If you're going far enough
to need lunch, you'll want to take a small repair kit, waterproofs and a few other items. These
really begin to weigh on your shoulders after a while, and your back gets clammy.

I'd *strongly* recommend a bar bag. Most of the modern ones have nice quick release clips which
unclip from the bike without difficulty, and a shoulder strap for when off the bike. They also
mostly have map pockets or map holders on top, which is mucho convenient when you're somewhere you
don't know very well. Finally you can keep cereal bars or whatever in your bar bag and get them out
without stopping, which is considerably more difficult with a rucksack or saddle bag.

Indeed, I often swap gloves from my winter gloves to my track mits without stopping, and in my less
cautious youth I would often take my pullover off (yes, ovef my head) and stuff it in my bar bag
while spinning down the road at a good pace.

Oh, and - if paying full price for a new bike at a bike shop, get them to let you try several
different saddles before you decide which one to have. And, if you aren't yet used to 'clipless'
pedals, get them to fit pedals with SPD fittings on at least one side and give them a try.

--
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Simon Brooke said:

I'd *strongly* recommend a bar bag. Most of the modern ones have nice quick release clips which
unclip from the bike without difficulty

Look for the "Klickfix" design, which is something of a de-facto standard with all sorts of
manufacturers making bags in all sorts of shapes and sizes with the fittings.

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch University of Dundee Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Medical Physics, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK net [email hidden]
dundee.ac.uk~pjclinchOpen ↗

Peter Clinch said:

Look for the "Klickfix" design, which is something of a de-facto standard with all sorts of
manufacturers making bags in all sorts of shapes and sizes with the fittings.

Except Halfords!

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Peter Clinch said:

Look for the "Klickfix" design, which is something of a de-facto standard with all sorts of
manufacturers making bags in all sorts of shapes and sizes with the fittings.

Klickfix (rixen + Kaul ?) is very good. some bags have built in fittings, more traditional bags can
use a wire frame. I also have a klickfix basket which is great for shopping. At one point I had the
klickfix mounting on the handlebar of the spark[1] for shopping.

..d

[1] spark from teh norse word to kick is a sled that looks like a normal chair with long flexible
runners. You steer by holding the handlebars and standing on the runners. A lot of fun in the
right circumstances and very painful when you crash on a steep hill.

On Tue, 02 Mar 2004 23:29:53 +0000, in
<[email hidden]>, anonymous coward

Quoted message said:

They used to be completely daft, as you couldn't reach the brakes from certain positions. Now they
normally have several brake levers. Apart from

Noooooo! Unless you are referring to the retro-fitted secondary levers reviewed some months ago in
C+ then drop handlebars have only one pair of levers. Older bikes with drops (e.g. "gents 10 speed
racer"😉 had a set of secondary "safety" levers but common opinion seems to be that these were
downright dangerous (hand position when braking was near the centre of the bars thus removing
manouverability, and also the 2ndry levers didn't directly activate the brakes: they activated the
primary levers which in turn activated the brakes (so long as the 2ndry lever hadn't come into
contact with the handlebar by then).

Drops are IMHO terribly comfy and brake levers can be operated from two different hand positions.

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On Tue, 02 Mar 2004 23:29:53 +0000, in
<[email hidden]>, anonymous coward

Quoted message said:

It'd probably be very worthwhile buying a saddle-bag or handlebar bag. If you're going far enough
to need lunch, you'll want to take a small repair kit, waterproofs and a few other items. These
really begin to weigh on your shoulders after a while, and your back gets clammy.

Be aware that with STI levers on drop bars, handlebar bags don't always fit due to Shimano's cable
direction and the fact that the levers need to swing inwards.
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Richard Bates said:

On Tue, 02 Mar 2004 23:29:53 +0000, in <[email hidden]>, anonymous

coward said:

It'd probably be very worthwhile buying a saddle-bag or handlebar bag. If you're going far enough
to need lunch, you'll want to take a small repair kit, waterproofs and a few other items. These
really begin to weigh on your shoulders after a while, and your back gets clammy.

Be aware that with STI levers on drop bars, handlebar bags don't always fit due to Shimano's cable
direction and the fact that the levers need to swing inwards.

Though you can get an extender for the Rixen and Kaul Klickfix system which may help.

Colin
--

anonymous coward said:

They used to be completely daft, as you couldn't reach the brakes from certain positions.

A bit like bar ends on flat handlebars then? This really doesn't matter: notice how you have to move
your foot to reach the brake pedal in a car, and in the same way having to move a hand to brake on a
bike isn't really an issue.

Quoted message said:

Now they normally have several brake levers.

IME they usually just have the one set. Back over a decade or so "safety levers" were the norm on
many drop bar bikes. Taking them *off* my bike actually improved the safety IMHO, because I was
never tempted to try and use the damn things!

Quoted message said:

aerodynamic thing they let you change hand position which can be welcome on longer rides.

Indeed. The only real problem with drops is they do take a little getting used to. I rode nothing
but a drop bar bike for years so I was very well acquainted, but having gone to the Dark Side and
not ridden them for about a year I found I suffered terribly with a sore neck after a 10 mile run on
the bike I used to ride everywhere, even trying to sit back and upright as much as I could.

Pete.
--
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Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK net [email hidden]
dundee.ac.uk~pjclinchOpen ↗

Richard Bates said:

Doki said:

Any ideas on what lamps to get? I don't want one of those naff flashing LED things on the back or
something that gives out as much light as one of those photon lights strapped to the front.
Proper lights please, preferably as bright as a car tail light at the back (15W Halogen IIRC) and
at least 30W facing forwards...

30W up front will require a battery almost as heavy as the bike itself! I would seriously consider
LEDs for the rear, and I would also recommend investigating Cateye front LEDs - These are white
rather than the naff green ones that you may be thinking of.

Yes, the LEDs have improved enormously over the past few years. IMO you are much more visible with
the brightest of the flashing ones than would be with car power steady one.

In article <[email hidden]>,

Richard Bates said:

30W up front will require a battery almost as heavy as the bike

If by 30W the poster meant ``30W Halogen equivalent'', they can go HID from Lumicycle, Lupine and
others. Not cheap, though.

ian

On Wed, 3 Mar 2004 16:20:15 -0000, in
<[email hidden]>, "Doki"

Quoted message said:

Any ideas on what lamps to get? I don't want one of those naff flashing LED things on the back or
something that gives out as much light as one of those photon lights strapped to the front. Proper
lights please, preferably as bright as a car tail light at the back (15W Halogen IIRC) and at least
30W facing forwards...

30W up front will require a battery almost as heavy as the bike itself! I would seriously consider
LEDs for the rear, and I would also recommend investigating Cateye front LEDs - These are white
rather than the naff green ones that you may be thinking of.

Hope this helps.

Love and lumens from Rich x

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and binding contract.

Richard Bates said:

Doki said:

Any ideas on what lamps to get? I don't want one of those naff flashing LED things on the back or
something that gives out as much light as one of those photon lights strapped to the front.
Proper lights please, preferably as bright as a car tail light at the back (15W Halogen IIRC) and
at least 30W facing forwards...

30W up front will require a battery almost as heavy as the bike itself!

I'm only guessing... 2.5 amps at 14V just needs a lot of NiMH cells and won't last very long 🙂.
I've just remembered that car brake lights aren't halogens, so you'd probably get by with 5W of
halogen at the back...

Quoted message said:

I would seriously consider LEDs for the rear, and I would also recommend investigating Cateye
front LEDs - These are white rather than the naff green ones that you may be thinking of.

Hope this helps.

I drive a car and know how difficult it is to see idiot cyclists who think that 5 candle power is
going to show up against street lamps, headlamps and car brake lamps 🙂. I don't want to end up
under a car, and unless you have a mass of superbright LEDs you're not very easy to see. The
majority of cyclists I see have a few normal dim LEDs or no lamps at all.

Ian G Batten said:

In article <[email hidden]>, Richard Bates

Quoted message said:

30W up front will require a battery almost as heavy as the bike

If by 30W the poster meant ``30W Halogen equivalent'', they can go HID from Lumicycle, Lupine and
others. Not cheap, though.

More than the cost of the Dawes bike he suggested in fact.

Colin
--

Colin Blackburn said:

Ian G Batten said:

In article <[email hidden]>, Richard Bates

Quoted message said:

30W up front will require a battery almost as heavy as the bike

If by 30W the poster meant ``30W Halogen equivalent'', they can go HID from Lumicycle, Lupine and
others. Not cheap, though.

More than the cost of the Dawes bike he suggested in fact.

Or I could just bolt on a BFO battery and a Hella lamp and have as much light as I like for a tenner
or so... It'll be heavy but that doesn't really matter.

Doki said:

Simon Brooke said:

And, if you aren't yet used to 'clipless' pedals, get them to fit pedals with SPD fittings on at
least one side and give them a try.

What are clipless pedals? I've only used the normal variety you get on a boggo bike. I'd prefer
not to wear stupid shoes to ride a bike or any variety of lycra or nylon if at all possible 🙂.

The next step up from ordinary pedals is to use toeclips - this is a pocket on the end of the pedal
that you insert your toe into. It means you are pedalling with the right part of your foot (your toe
rather than your heel - heels feel more 'natural' to me at least, but is less efficient) and it
means you can pull up on the pedals as well as pushing down. If you do this you can go faster &
further because you're exercising muscles that don't otherwise get used in cycling.

'Clipless pedals' sound like they should be a step back from these because they don't have toeclips.
Instead, you wear special shoes that mechanically clip on to the pedals. You can make a good safety
argument for both clipless & toeclips, because if you're standing on the pedals and slip it can be
awkward. Everyone falls off 1ce / 2ce learning to use them, though. SPD shoes that Simon suggested
look normallish. Racing cyclists use 'look' shoes that have hard soles and are anything but.

There's a reason for most things in cycling - I once got caught in a deluge wearing cotton underwear
& synthetic everything else. At the campsite 10 miles later, my nether regions were a perfect
triangle of chafed red raw skin and the rest of me was fine.

Preferring to stay anonymous,

AC

Quoted message said:

bicycledoctor.co.ukp dawesdiscovery101.htmlOpen ↗ looks ok.

You're sure you're not interested in the Dawes Diploma 3 ;-! That's what I'd get.

Quoted message said:

Any ideas on how good it is? I'd rather buy one without mud guards TBH so I can fit some that
don't look quite as bad as the massive alu ones that cover up 1/2 the wheel 😉.

It's a sensible style of bike - the website doesn't seem to say anything more about it.

Quoted message said:

Any ideas on what lamps to get? I don't want one of those naff flashing LED things on the back or
something that gives out as much light as one of those photon lights strapped to the front. Proper
lights please, preferably as bright as a car tail light at the back (15W Halogen IIRC) and at
least 30W facing forwards...

anonymous coward said:

Quoted message said:

bicycledoctor.co.ukp dawesdiscovery101.htmlOpen ↗ looks ok.

You're sure you're not interested in the Dawes Diploma 3 ;-! That's what I'd get.

The Diploma 7 doesn't look too bad. 7-speed hub gear, ideal for city riding. Comes with a rack and
mudguards---though no doubt they aren't the right sort.

Colin
--

Doki said:

I drive a car and know how difficult it is to see idiot cyclists who think that 5 candle power is
going to show up against street lamps, headlamps and car brake lamps 🙂. I don't want to end up
under a car, and unless you have a mass of superbright LEDs you're not very easy to see.

Since the lamps on the cars are a lot brighter, use them to your advantage: reflectives are
your friend!

If you're out at night then reflectives on you and the bike will stick out from a *long* way off. In
conjunction with good lamps a good does of reflectives makes you quite obvious.

For general not-ending-up-under-a-car info where and how you cycle is as important as the
illumination. A highly recommended source of good info and practice is "Cyclecraft" by John
Franklin. Reading and taking it on board will probably help your safety a lot.

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch University of Dundee Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Medical Physics, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK net [email hidden]
dundee.ac.uk~pjclinchOpen ↗

"Doki" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I drive a car

As do the majority of posters here - don't imagine this makes you unique :-)

Quoted message said:

and know how difficult it is to see idiot cyclists who think that 5 candle power is going to show
up against street lamps, headlamps

and

Quoted message said:

car brake lamps 🙂. I don't want to end up under a car, and unless you

have

Quoted message said:

a mass of superbright LEDs you're not very easy to see. The majority of cyclists I see have a few
normal dim LEDs or no lamps at all.

Well that's easy, don't join them.

BS/DIM/a.n.other suitable standard lighting is more than you'll see on the cyclists you're thinking
of. Examples of BS lighting: Dynamo : 0.6W rear, non halogen, 2.4W front, optionally halogen Cateye
AU100-BS LED lamp

If using battery lamps, make sure you replace/recharge the batteries when the lamp goes dim. Cateye
for example quote two running times - one for full light, one for 'getting along'. Make sure you're
still in the full brightness phase. (easier said than done - as it just dims gradually, it's not
necessarily obvious when this happens.)

However more important than getting the brightest possible lamps is riding style. I know it's not an
exciting gadgety solution, but it is worth considering. Cyclecraft is the HMSO book on the subject,
and contains loads of really great advice. If you're not been cycling a lot, it's probably worth a
look. It points out things such as riding position (gutter = very bad, even though at first glance
it appears to put you out of the way of danger. Simply put, you want to be in the way of the motor
vehicles, such that they have to make a positive effort to get past you. Drivers are good at seeing
things in front of them, and are also good at ignoring things they think they're going to miss. LH
tyretrack is a good path to aim for.)

Don't underestimate reflectives either. Your typical motor vehicle has about 100W of light going
forwards - use it to your advantage. You want to appear wide, so having reflective arms is
significantly better than just a reflective body.

cheers, clive