Yet another "downtube to STI conversion" question

On 13 Mar 2004 08:17:06 -0800, [email hidden] (Curt Wiederhoeft)

Quoted message said:

over with a new bike. I'll present what I think the options
are, in order from lowest to highst cost, and perhaps one
of the experts here can advise, I could:

1. Do nothing, and stay in complete retro-grouch mode with
the downtube shifters. I'm turning 40 this year, and
it's not like I'm getting faster and *need* a speed
advantage.

If you were getting faster, you wouldn't *need* an equipment-
caused speed advantage, as you'd already have a speed
advantage from getting faster.

Because you're not getting any faster, you'll have to get
your speed advantage somewhere else...if you want to go
faster, anyway.

Quoted message said:

2. Track down a set of used RSX or Sora brifters (~$100 on
eBay?), and install those.

Pros: Relatively cheap. Stays in the Shimano "family," so
everything should work together well.

...as long as they're 7-speed brifters.

Quoted message said:

Cons: They don't seem to be too durable. Lots of complaints
in the on-line groups about ratchet mechanisms breaking
down. No warranty. It

I don't think durability should be a big issue. Consider the
amount of people for which they work properly. If/when they
break, used replacements may be difficult to find, but very
cheap when you find them. You could stock up like you have
done with cassettes, too, as you see them on ebay and
rec.bicycles.marketplace.

Quoted message said:

looks like there's limited ability to trim the front
derailleur (which I have to do now--don't know if this is
intrinsic to the old 105's, or if it's a bad install).

I can't speak for low end 7 speed, but with my mid-range 9
speed (2001 105), I had all the trim I could ask for. I
then converted from double to triple, which used the same
left brifter but a new derailer, and found I _continue_ to
have all the trim I could want. I really expected to have
no trim, but I've got a few positions. I've got it
adjusted well enough that, in the little riding I've done
since the upgrade, I've found it works well while rarely
trimming at all.

Er, IIRC, anyway. I haven't ridden for a few weeks...this
weather is depressing me more than it's directly preventing
me from riding.

Quoted message said:

3. Buy and install the Modolo Morphos ($180 at
Performance).

Cons: Lots of compliaints about installs, sensitivity to
tiny misalignments, and Modolo non-response to problems.
None of my LBS's has ever dealt with these.

I too stumbled across these the other day at Performance's
site, and thought they look really cool, but too many
reviews claiming they work badly or break easily. If you do
get them, here's some seemingly important info I also
stumbled on: sjscycles.commodolomorphosreset.aspOpen ↗

Quoted message said:

4. Buy a recent vintage 9-speed 105 system, and just
install 8 cogs (per advice of Sheldon Brown at Harris
web site). $230 at Performance gets the dreailleur,
shifters, cogs and chain. Will also need to buy
compatible chainring.

You may not need the chainring.

Quoted message said:

Cons: Starting to get expensive, with a slippery slope.
Will this require a new front derailleur as well? As long
as I'm looking at

Nearly anything one might do requires a new front
derailer, it seems.

Quoted message said:

chainrings, I might as well get a whole crankset and bottom
bracket, too. And so on.

Yep, the new rings probably cost as much as the new
crankset, unless Nashbar is still selling rings for $3.

...they've only got 24t rings for $3 now. They do have some
options that might be cheaper than a whole new crank.

Quoted message said:

5. Cold-set the stays to 130 mm, and go 9-speed whole hog.

Cons: Costs even more. New wheels. Brakes? Better to try
option 4 first, and go there in stages if desired?

Try option 4 first.

Quoted message said:

6. 9-speed the "right way." Go back to my framebuilder, and
have him re-weld the stays to 130 ($500 including new
paint job and decals).

Why? Don't bother.

Quoted message said:

7. Others that i haven't mentioned? I did see one post
saying that the

Consider that ALL of the options above that consider new
parts could also be done with used parts.

How about bar-end shifters? Cheap, even brand new Dura Ace;
can be set to friction now, and used later for 8 or 9 speed
indexed too.

If you're happy with 7 speeds, and you feel that you can
keep up with your group just by changing the shifters
(without upgrading to 9 speed with the same total range but
closer ratios), I'd say just change the shifters, either to
bar-end or used 7 speed brifters.
--
Rick Onanian

Curt Wiederhoeft said:

I have a beautiful, 15-year-old, custom Reynolds 531
frame that's still equipped with its original 7-speed,
downtube-shifter 105 gruppo.

I figure that I have several options, all with their own
advantages and disadvantages. I *think* that I've pretty
much scoured this group and the other discussion areas,
but I still can't infer the "best" approach.

Curt, you're thinking way too much (you sound like me). I
was in this same position a few years ago. I have a mid '80s
Columbus SL bike (originally 6-sp Campy NR) that I upgraded
to 9 speed.

First, I would *not* go with used brifters, or 8 speed
stuff.

As a minimum, buy or build a new rear wheel with a 9 speed
freehub. Buy a set of new 9-sp 105 STI brifters, a 105 rear
der, a cassette, and a 9-sp chain. You should be able to
keep your existing crankset and front der. No need to cold
set the rear end to go from 126 to 130 mm (but it shouldn't
cost more than $25 or so at a good LBS, and they can check
your der hanger alignment).

When I upgraded my bike, I also installed a new crankset, BB
and front der. Modern chainrings have ramps and pins that
really make shifting smooth and reliable.

The complete STI brifter set with cables, stops, etc. is
often on sale at ~$120 at Nashbar. I bought a set of brand
new 105 "brifters only" on eBay for my wife's bike for $71
last year.

If you're concerned about durability/repairabilty, you might
consider Campagnolo. The only problem I ever had with a
Shimano brifter was with a used one I bought on eBay, and
even that wasn't a hard failure.

Of course, you may be better off staying with your DT
shifters or maybe going to bar cons. I've become dependent
on those darn brifters now, and Shimano/Campy have me right
where they want me! 10 speed anyone?

Art Harris

Curt Wiederhoeft said:

As you can see, I'm in a massive dilemma here.
Please help!!

I have wrestled with the same dilema - well sort of. I have
a 1989 Reyolds 531 frame with 105 7 speed and a 1997
Columbus SLX with Ultegra 9 speed STi, of course the STi
bike is much better.

I have decided to switch the 7 speed to 8 using 8 from 9 on
7 as per Sheldons site but use DT shifters. Of course I
could use STi in this configuration but as you say they are
expensive. Even if you go this route, with STi you are not
changing the back end of your frame or wheel and you provide
an upgrade path to full 9 speed if you later decide you need
to (by getting a new wheel and the frame cold set) or can
afford to. I think a wise choice of ratios would alleviate
the need to be honest.

I believe you have another option, I think certain Campag.
Ergo 9s will index Shimano 7s so you get the benefit you
want with little faffing around. I suspect though that
your fellow riders have better ratios to choose from that
you, perhaps they have 9 or 10 speeds with close blocks
that your 7 ?

On 13 Mar 2004 08:17:06 -0800, [email hidden] (Curt Wiederhoeft)

Quoted message said:

I have a beautiful, 15-year-old, custom Reynolds 531 frame
that's still equipped with its original 7-speed, downtube-
shifter 105 gruppo. Every spring, I go through the internal
debate of whether to upgrade the drivetrain to include an
STI-type system, and every year in the past, I've just
stuck with the status quo. This year, however, I'm riding
with a group of guys from work at lunch, and I'm noticing
that they do a more shifting than I do, seem to settle into
cadences quicker, and generally respond better to changes
in our paceline. I think it's time to take the pluge, but
I'm still confused about how exactly to accomplish the
conversion.

I figure that I have several options, all with their own
advantages and disadvantages. I *think* that I've pretty
much scoured this group and the other discussion areas, but
I still can't infer the "best" approach. At this point, I'm
not ready to retire the frame and start over with a new
bike. I'll present what I think the options are, in order
from lowest to highst cost, and perhaps one of the experts
here can advise, I could:

1. Do nothing, and stay in complete retro-grouch mode with
the downtube shifters. I'm turning 40 this year, and
it's not like I'm getting faster and *need* a speed
advantage.

Pros: Cheap! I've hoarded enough 7-speed cassettes to make
this work for 10 more years. Utterly reliable.

Cons: I'm starting to look like the group dunce in these
rides, and at least a small part of it is the time it takes
me to respond to changing road conditions.

2. Track down a set of used RSX or Sora brifters (~$100 on
eBay?), and install those.

Pros: Relatively cheap. Stays in the Shimano "family," so
everything should work together well.

Cons: They don't seem to be too durable. Lots of complaints
in the on-line groups about ratchet mechanisms breaking
down. No warranty. It looks like there's limited ability to
trim the front derailleur (which I have to do now--don't
know if this is intrinsic to the old 105's, or if it's a
bad install).

3. Buy and install the Modolo Morphos ($180 at
Performance).

Pros: The ergonomics look good. Only slightly more
expensive. Full warranty. Adaptable to 9-speed later if I
decide to go that way. Reviews say that ability to trim
that finicky front derailleur is excellent.

Cons: Lots of compliaints about installs, sensitivity to
tiny misalignments, and Modolo non-response to problems.
None of my LBS's has ever dealt with these.

4. Buy a recent vintage 9-speed 105 system, and just
install 8 cogs (per advice of Sheldon Brown at Harris
web site). $230 at Performance gets the dreailleur,
shifters, cogs and chain. Will also need to buy
compatible chainring.

Pros: Great long-term parts availability. Is chainring
spacing on 9-speeds tighter, so there'd be less trimming
required?

Cons: Starting to get expensive, with a slippery slope.
Will this require a new front derailleur as well? As long
as I'm looking at chainrings, I might as well get a whole
crankset and bottom bracket, too. And so on.

5. Cold-set the stays to 130 mm, and go 9-speed whole hog.

Pros: Just like having a new bike.

Cons: Costs even more. New wheels. Brakes? Better to try
option 4 first, and go there in stages if desired?

6. 9-speed the "right way." Go back to my framebuilder, and
have him re-weld the stays to 130 ($500 including new
paint job and decals).

Pros: ?

Cons: Full conversion would cost as much as a new bike.

7. Others that i haven't mentioned? I did see one post
saying that the Campy Ergo 8-speed system has the same
center-to-center cog spacing as Shimano's 105, and that
this works well, but even the used shifters are pretty
expensive. I haven't seriously considered it, but I'm
willing to try.

As you can see, I'm in a massive dilemma here. Please
help!!

So many questions! Here are some of my observations,
and I've done an upgrade starting from the same base;
late '80s 105.

I see absolutely NO reason to consider re-welding the frame.
Framebuilders "cold set" frames after welding to get things
into proper allignment, so why re-weld the rear stays only
to then have them cold set back into position. In fact
(while some would disagree) I wouldn't even cold set the
rear triangle if I was going from 126mm to 130mm. I've been
riding around for over four years on a 126mm bonded aluminum
frame with a 130mm hub. If it works with aluminum it will
certainly work with 531.

If adding cogs, wheel replacement is not necessary. I
converted my 7-speed Uniglide 105 hub to 8/9 speed
Hyperglide by replacing the freehub body with one I took off
an STX (FH-MC38) hub. While probably not necessary I
replaced the axle with the one from the STX hub, cut down by
5mm. The STX is for a 135mm rear triangle.

Of course I then had to re-dish the rear wheel by 2mm,
shifting the rim to the right. This did not require new
spokes, just a few turns of the spoke wrench.

My old single pivot 105 calipers work just fine with the
Dura Ace STI levers I used.

In another thread someone mentioned that Performance is
selling an Ultegra 8 to 9 speed conversion kit for $280.
With the addition of a new freehub body you can have a 9-
speed STI equipped bike for something around $300 (plus
shipping). Check with Sheldon about a cheap (about $20) rear
hub from which the freehub body can be scavanged. It was
recently mentioned in yet another thread.

People have said that the old 105 front derailleur (FD-1050)
wouldn't work properly with later model STI levers, but that
has not been my experience.

jeverett3<AT>earthlink<DOT>net
home.earthlink.net~jeverett3Open ↗

(Curt Wiederhoeft) said:

I have a beautiful, 15-year-old, custom Reynolds 531 frame
that's still equipped with its original 7-speed, downtube-
shifter 105 gruppo. Every spring, I go through the
internal debate of whether to upgrade the drivetrain to
include an STI-type system, and every year in the past,
I've just stuck with the status quo. This year, however,
I'm riding with a group of guys from work at lunch, and
I'm noticing that they do a more shifting than I do, seem
to settle into cadences quicker, and generally respond
better to changes in our paceline. I think it's time to
take the pluge, but I'm still confused about how exactly
to accomplish the conversion.

Having STI/Ergo shifters does result in people shifting a
lot more- unnecessarily more, IMHO. In large goups,
annoyingly more with the rattle-rattle-shift noises and the
frequent dropped chains endemic to the Shimano STI system.
Of course, I'm prejudiced as I just don't like the
ergonomics of the STI system and prefer Ergo- and I prefer
Option One below even more:

Get some 7 speed Shimano bar end shifters. Or, perhaps even
simpler and easier would be a set of Kelly TakeOffs, which
would mount your existing shifters up at the brake levers.

Quoted message said:

6. 9-speed the "right way." Go back to my framebuilder,
and have him re-weld the stays to 130 ($500 including
new paint job and decals).

That's the "right way" only for your framebuilder's bank
account. Cold setting the stays 2 mm wider is not a problem
in any way.

Curt Wiederhoeft said:

I have a beautiful, 15-year-old, custom Reynolds 531 frame
that's still equipped with its original 7-speed, downtube-
shifter 105 gruppo. Every spring, I go through the
internal debate of whether to upgrade the drivetrain to
include an STI-type system, and every year in the past,
I've just stuck with the status quo. This year, however,
I'm riding with a group of guys from work at lunch, and
I'm noticing that they do a more shifting than I do, seem
to settle into cadences quicker, and generally respond
better to changes in our paceline. I think it's time to
take the pluge, but I'm still confused about how exactly
to accomplish the conversion.

I figure that I have several options, all with their own
advantages and disadvantages.

-snip-

Here's one approach you didn't cover.
yellowjersey.orgergokit.htmlOpen ↗

We did almost 60 of these last year. Your 531 frame is
easily aligned from 126 to 130mm ( a spoke's breadth per
side - nothing to a good steel frame)

--
Andrew Muzi www.yellowjersey.org Open every day since 1
April, 1971

i say go option 5. only need one wheel, possibly just the
freehub if you follow the sheldon route, and only need brake
levers, not calipers. sticking with a frame you love is a
good thing.

i was a retro grouch refusing to upgrade until about 3 years
ago. now i wonder what the heck i was thinking. ero/sti is
the best thing since sliced bread.

Curt Wiederhoeft said:

I have a beautiful, 15-year-old, custom Reynolds 531 frame
that's still equipped with its original 7-speed, downtube-
shifter 105 gruppo. Every spring, I go through the
internal debate of whether to upgrade the drivetrain to
include an STI-type system, and every year in the past,
I've just stuck with the status quo. This year, however,
I'm riding with a group of guys from work at lunch, and
I'm noticing that they do a more shifting than I do, seem
to settle into cadences quicker, and generally respond
better to changes in our paceline. I think it's time to
take the pluge, but I'm still confused about how exactly
to accomplish the conversion.

I figure that I have several options, all with their own
advantages and disadvantages. I *think* that I've pretty
much scoured this group and the other discussion areas,
but I still can't infer the "best" approach. At this
point, I'm not ready to retire the frame and start over
with a new bike. I'll present what I think the options
are, in order from lowest to highst cost, and perhaps one
of the experts here can advise, I could:

1. Do nothing, and stay in complete retro-grouch mode with
the downtube shifters. I'm turning 40 this year, and
it's not like I'm getting faster and *need* a speed
advantage.

Pros: Cheap! I've hoarded enough 7-speed cassettes to make
this work for 10 more years. Utterly reliable.

Cons: I'm starting to look like the group dunce in these
rides, and at least a small part of it is the time it
takes me to respond to changing road conditions.

2. Track down a set of used RSX or Sora brifters (~$100 on
eBay?), and install those.

Pros: Relatively cheap. Stays in the Shimano "family," so
everything should work together well.

Cons: They don't seem to be too durable. Lots of
complaints in the on-line groups about ratchet mechanisms
breaking down. No warranty. It looks like there's limited
ability to trim the front derailleur (which I have to do
now--don't know if this is intrinsic to the old 105's, or
if it's a bad install).

3. Buy and install the Modolo Morphos ($180 at
Performance).

Pros: The ergonomics look good. Only slightly more
expensive. Full warranty. Adaptable to 9-speed later if I
decide to go that way. Reviews say that ability to trim
that finicky front derailleur is excellent.

Cons: Lots of compliaints about installs, sensitivity to
tiny misalignments, and Modolo non-response to problems.
None of my LBS's has ever dealt with these.

4. Buy a recent vintage 9-speed 105 system, and just
install 8 cogs (per advice of Sheldon Brown at Harris
web site). $230 at Performance gets the dreailleur,
shifters, cogs and chain. Will also need to buy
compatible chainring.

Pros: Great long-term parts availability. Is chainring
spacing on 9-speeds tighter, so there'd be less trimming
required?

Cons: Starting to get expensive, with a slippery slope.
Will this require a new front derailleur as well? As long
as I'm looking at chainrings, I might as well get a whole
crankset and bottom bracket, too. And so on.

5. Cold-set the stays to 130 mm, and go 9-speed whole hog.

Pros: Just like having a new bike.

Cons: Costs even more. New wheels. Brakes? Better to try
option 4 first, and go there in stages if desired?

6. 9-speed the "right way." Go back to my framebuilder,
and have him re-weld the stays to 130 ($500 including
new paint job and decals).

Pros: ?

Cons: Full conversion would cost as much as a new bike.

7. Others that i haven't mentioned? I did see one post
saying that the Campy Ergo 8-speed system has the same
center-to-center cog spacing as Shimano's 105, and that
this works well, but even the used shifters are pretty
expensive. I haven't seriously considered it, but I'm
willing to try.

As you can see, I'm in a massive dilemma here.
Please help!!

Curt

On 13 Mar 2004 08:17:06 -0800, [email hidden] (Curt Wiederhoeft) wrote:

<I have a beautiful, 15-year-old, custom Reynolds 531 frame
that's <still equipped with its original 7-speed, downtube-
shifter 105 gruppo. <Every spring, I go through the internal
debate of whether to upgrade <the drivetrain to include an
STI-type system, and every year in the <past, I've just
stuck with the status quo. This year, however, I'm <riding
with a group of guys from work at lunch, and I'm noticing
that <they do a more shifting than I do, seem to settle into
cadences <quicker, and generally respond better to changes
in our paceline. I <think it's time to take the pluge, but
I'm still confused about how <exactly to accomplish the
conversion. < <I figure that I have several options,

Cheapest alternative would be to get a 9 speed hub, rebuild
and re-dish the rear wheel and shift<groan> to friction
shifting. The wider 9sp hub will fit your steel frame with
very little persuasion. There'll be some der stop
adjustments. No need to go brifters to find out if a tighter
cluster would improve your ride.

jim beam said:

i was a retro grouch refusing to upgrade until about 3
years ago. now i wonder what the heck i was thinking.
ero/sti is the best thing since sliced bread.

Well, I still prefer my semi-indexed bar-end shifters.
However, I'm also still dubious about the merits of sliced
bread. I like being able to control slice thickness to suit
my mood, and I also suspect that unsliced bread remains
fresh longer.

--
Benjamin Lewis

Seeing is deceiving. It's eating that's believing.
-- James Thurber

Curt Wiederhoeft said:

6. 9-speed the "right way." Go back to my framebuilder,
and have him re-weld the stays to 130 ($500 including
new paint job and decals).

Did you actually get a quote? You can pull them out yourself
for nothing. It's only 4mm, and it's a steel frame, so cold-
setting is all that is required. No welding, no brazing, no
repainting required. Just pull both sides evenly - you can
check this by running a thread around the head tube and the
rear dropouts, and checking the distance between the thread
and the seat tube is equal on both sides. That's all a
framebuilder would do and it should cost about $10-20.

Disclaimer: this will put the dropout faces and the rear
mech hanger very slightly out of vertical unless they are
tweaked afterwards, but the angle is so small that it is
unlikely to cause a problem - plus the dropouts often aren't
perfect to start with!

William Holiday said:

On 13 Mar 2004 08:17:06 -0800, [email hidden] (Curt
Wiederhoeft) wrote:

<I have a beautiful, 15-year-old, custom Reynolds 531
frame that's <still equipped with its original 7-speed,
downtube-shifter 105 gruppo. <Every spring, I go through
the internal debate of whether to upgrade <the drivetrain
to include an STI-type system, and every year in the
<past, I've just stuck with the status quo. This year,
however, I'm <riding with a group of guys from work at
lunch, and I'm noticing that <they do a more shifting than
I do, seem to settle into cadences <quicker, and generally
respond better to changes in our paceline. I <think it's
time to take the pluge, but I'm still confused about how
<exactly to accomplish the conversion. < <I figure that I
have several options,

Cheapest alternative would be to get a 9 speed hub,
rebuild and re-dish the rear wheel and shift<groan> to
friction shifting. The wider 9sp hub will fit your steel
frame with very little persuasion. There'll be some der
stop adjustments. No need to go brifters to find out if a
tighter cluster would improve your ride.

Or use 9 Speed DA Downtube levers instead of friction

Zog The Undeniable <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<4054244d.0@entanet>...

Quoted message said:

Curt Wiederhoeft said:

6. 9-speed the "right way." Go back to my framebuilder,
and have him re-weld the stays to 130 ($500 including
new paint job and decals).

Did you actually get a quote?

Yep. They said they would be replace the brake support with
a slightly longer unit. Half of the cost quoted was
metalwork, and half was a new (all-over) paint job. This is
about what I expected, as the price of the original bike was
$1250 in 1990.

jim beam said:

i was a retro grouch refusing to upgrade until about 3
years ago. now i wonder what the heck i was thinking.
ero/sti is the best thing since sliced bread.

Before living in France, I might have agreed with you, but
I'm no longer convinced that sliced bread is such a
fabulous idea.

However I do like Ergo/STI very much.

Sheldon "Baguettes Are Better" Brown +------------------------------------------------
+
| Every normal man must be tempted, at times, | to spit on
| his hands, hoist the black flag, | and begin slitting
| throats. -- H.L. Mencken |
+------------------------------------------------+ Harris
Cyclery, West Newton, Massachusetts Phone 617-244-9772 FAX
617-244-1041 harriscyclery.comharriscyclery.comOpen ↗ Hard-to-find parts
shipped Worldwide captainbike.comcaptainbike.comOpen ↗
sheldonbrown.comsheldonbrown.comOpen ↗

There is another alternative, see if you can find some 7Sp
"Bar-Cons" These are shift levers like your DT's but they
are mounted on the ends of the handlebars, where the tape
plugs now sit.

Much lighter, almost as easy to use, much less expensive and
much more reliable/durable then STI's. They also have a
friction backup on the rear. The front is friction only,
allowing you to trim your derailer to compensate for
changing chain angle.

"May you have the wind at your back. And a really low gear
for the hills!"

Chris Zacho ~ "Your Friendly Neighborhood Wheelman"

Chris'Z Corner geocities.comczcornerOpen ↗

In article <[email hidden]>,

Benjamin Lewis said:

jim beam said:

i was a retro grouch refusing to upgrade until about 3
years ago. now i wonder what the heck i was thinking.
ero/sti is the best thing since sliced bread.

Well, I still prefer my semi-indexed bar-end shifters.
However, I'm also still dubious about the merits of sliced
bread. I like being able to control slice thickness to
suit my mood, and I also suspect that unsliced bread
remains fresh longer.

What, you people still eat bread? Atkins! Atkins!

Ate a coconut-paste-filled "cocktail bun" during a race
yesterday,
--
Ryan Cousineau, [email hidden]
sfu.cawiredcolaOpen ↗ President, Fabrizio
Mazzoleni Fan Club

[email hidden] (Curt Wiederhoeft) wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

I have a beautiful, 15-year-old, custom Reynolds 531 frame
that's still equipped with its original 7-speed, downtube-
shifter 105 gruppo. Every spring, I go through the
internal debate of whether to upgrade the drivetrain to
include an STI-type system, and every year in the past,
I've just stuck with the status quo. This year, however,
I'm riding with a group of guys from work at lunch, and
I'm noticing that they do a more shifting than I do, seem
to settle into cadences quicker, and generally respond
better to changes in our paceline. I think it's time to
take the pluge, but I'm still confused about how exactly
to accomplish the conversion.

I figure that I have several options, all with their own
advantages and disadvantages. I *think* that I've pretty
much scoured this group and the other discussion areas,
but I still can't infer the "best" approach. At this
point, I'm not ready to retire the frame and start over
with a new bike. I'll present what I think the options
are, in order from lowest to highst cost, and perhaps one
of the experts here can advise, I could:

If I understand your post you have a 7s cassette now. I
would go the Sheldon Brown route with 9s shifters, cassette
and chain set up as an 8s on your existing hub. This is the
most cost effective and quickest way to get there. No need
to buy a new freehub/axle, hub and rebuild, or buy a new
wheel. This has something of an upgrade path to 9s/130mm
spacing if and when you want to go that route.

Forget about having the rear triangle rebrazed. If you want
to pay an expert, have them cold set it and check the
dropout alignment.

I could almost recommend the Modolo levers. They are
comfortable and they work but the thumb shifting takes
higher effort than some people like, and there can be an
issue with whether your thumbs have the reach for the rear
downshift. Replacement parts are not available and I think
that there is a part in the rachet mechanism that is wearing
out on mine already. I would not count on being able to get
them to honor their warranty. You will have to depend on
Performance to back it up. I use them out of an obstinate
desire to avoid both Campy and Shimano on my French bicycle,
and they do work. They would also give you some flexibility
about future upgrades since they would allow you to change
the drivetrain to Campy or Shimano, anything except 10s. If
you can test them to see if you like the ergonomics, and you
can get them in good working order for $120 you might give
them a shot, but they are a gamble.

If cost were less of an object I would look at Campy Ergo
shifters and derailleurs and whatever else was needed to
make the rest of the drive train Campy compatible (Campy
freehub and cassette, Shimano with Campy spacers, or take a
chance with the Campy overshifting the Shimano cassette
which some people say works just fine), because I don't like
the function of STI, I don't like the way they look, and I
read here that they are not rebuildable, but that's me.

If you ride the drops a lot of the time you might consider
bar-ends but it sounds from your post that you like the
position you get with STI. If you ride on the brake hoods a
lot, I don't see that much difference between bar-end and
downtube shifters- you still have to move your hand to shift
(compare where the bar-ends would be to where your brake
hoods are and where your present downtube shifters are).

JP

Sheldon Brown said:

jim beam said:

i was a retro grouch refusing to upgrade until about 3
years ago. now i wonder what the heck i was thinking.
ero/sti is the best thing since sliced bread.

Before living in France, I might have agreed with you, but
I'm no longer convinced that sliced bread is such a
fabulous idea.

However I do like Ergo/STI very much.

Sheldon "Baguettes Are Better" Brown

They're nice and decadent, yes, but it's not *real* bread if
it doesn't hurt when you drop it on your foot. It's the
Germans who really know what they're doing.

--
Benjamin Lewis

Don't take life so serious, son, it ain't nohow permanent.
-- Walt Kelly

Ryan Cousineau said:

In article <[email hidden]>, Benjamin

Lewis said:

jim beam said:

i was a retro grouch refusing to upgrade until about 3
years ago. now i wonder what the heck i was thinking.
ero/sti is the best thing since sliced bread.

Well, I still prefer my semi-indexed bar-end shifters.
However, I'm also still dubious about the merits of
sliced bread. I like being able to control slice
thickness to suit my mood, and I also suspect that
unsliced bread remains fresh longer.

What, you people still eat bread? Atkins! Atkins!

This hyar's a cyclin' newsgroup, boy.

Even if I thought that was a good idea, isn't that for
people who want to *lose* wait? You've seen me, right?

I see that Subway is now advertising special "Atkins" wraps.
(18% less carb! 75% more fat!)

Quoted message said:

Ate a coconut-paste-filled "cocktail bun" during a race
yesterday,

Had all the carbs I could eat during the rando social
yesterday. I got two pairs of cycling gloves too. Not
bad for $5.

--
Benjamin Lewis

Don't take life so serious, son, it ain't nohow permanent.
-- Walt Kelly

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Curt Wiederhoeft wrote:
>6. 9-speed the "right way." Go back to my framebuilder,
> and have him re-weld the stays to 130 ($500 including
> new paint job and decals).

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Did you actually get a quote?

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Yep. They said they would be replace the brake support
with a slightly longer unit. Half of the cost quoted was
metalwork, and half was a new (all-over) paint job. This
is about what I expected, as the price of the original
bike was $1250 in 1990.

Phil Brown said:

Speaking as a framebuider this is the biggest load of
hooey I've read on this gtoup in a long time. Cutting out
the bridges MIGHT be necessary if you were going from 120
to 135 with Columbus SP chainstays but to open a 126 to
130 no way. And the longest part of the operation is to
strip the BB out so you can put it into the vise. If I
don't have to strip the BB I charge $25 and that's just
because the tools to realign the dropouts cost money. Find
another framebuilder.

I'm with Phil except "hooey" is too polite a word for
that level of dishonesty. And you were his customer
already! Ouch.

--
Andrew Muzi www.yellowjersey.org Open every day since 1
April, 1971