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Question for Andrew re: Religious Discussion on SMC

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General fitness, health and nutrition
Published
9 March 2004
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15 March 2004
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Mozz
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  1. Hi Andrew,

    I thought these points might give you some pause for thought
    regarding the 'structure' of our 'discussions' and depending
    on your view point, a guage as to whether or not they are
    worthwhile continuing for either of us.

    Respectfully and with love,

    Christianity has a built-in defense system that effectively
    wards off attackers with the flick of a cliché or pat answer
    and a retreat to Bible verses considered relevant for
    supporting 'proof'. Here are a few examples.

    (1)The non-believer cannot understand the things of God
    because he doesn’t believe; if you would only believe,
    then you would understand. This is clearly a circular
    argument, but one usually used with confidence
    nonetheless. Such a statement further presupposes that
    there is some mystical, epistemological window of
    understanding opened up in the mind of the believer
    because he or she has taken the “leap of faith”. Thus
    according to most Christians, anyone, regardless of
    their education, will a priori have a deficient
    understanding of reality unless and until they become a
    believer in the Bible.

    (2)The Bible is the Word of God; therefore, anyone who
    disagrees with it must be wrong. This, again, presupposes
    the very thing it sets out to prove. Nevertheless, it
    serves as a very effective shield against rational and
    critical thinking that might undermine the believer’s
    trust in the Bible. To undermine this presupposition, one
    would have to convince the Christian to doubt the
    veracity of the Bible, but then this presupposition
    automatically dismisses any such argument to do so
    outright. So, we end up going in a vicious circle:
    Christian: “The Bible is the Word of God.” Critic: “But
    what about verse x and it’s blatant contradiction with
    verse y?” Christian: “The deficiency is not with the
    Bible, but with our understanding of it. After all, it is
    the Word of God and thus cannot be in error.”

    (3)Jesus said we should expect unbelievers to try and lead
    us astray. This might be stated in any number of ways
    using words like “persecution”, “deceive” and “Satan” to
    give additional support to the idea that Christianity is
    the truth and anything that seems to be subversive
    should instantly be relegated as a “lie”. The Christian
    worldview tends to be very dualistic: that is, most
    things are interpreted as either God’s will or Satan’s
    doing. The everyday events of life are often perceived
    as either being orchestrated by God or the Devil, and
    often believed to contain warnings or messages to help
    guide one through his or her day. Thus, anything you
    present as contrary to biblical truth (however they
    might interpret it) is often automatically interpreted
    as deceptive, originating from some evil source, since
    it could not be from God.

    (4) The Bible is backed by scientific proof. There is a
    great deal of Christian literature that tries to
    establish the Bible’s truthfulness using evidence from
    various scientific fields: physics, astronomy and
    cosmology, medicine, microbiology and archaeology just
    to name a few. But again, most of these writings are
    fueled by the same adamant presuppositions that they are
    setting out to prove (i.e., that the Bible simply must
    be literally true). Thus, the “evidence” is almost
    always very selective, very biased and often
    inaccurately interpreted. Christian professionals are
    quoted and non-Christian professionals often misquoted
    (or taken out of context) in order to shift empirical
    weight to whatever biblical claim being staked. In
    brief, this answer is often given with a cluster of
    quotations and “did you know…?” trivia, but it hardly
    has the kind of backing Christians would like to think.
    Nevertheless, the literature available to buttress this
    kind of defense of the Bible is plentiful and gives the
    Christian the rather confident feeling that they’re
    using their opponent’s arsenal against him while giving
    strength to their own position. Pseudo-science and
    misapplied good science supply a false sense of
    certainty to beliefs, but don’t expect it to go away
    anytime soon. And don’t expect to change too many minds
    set in this way…no matter how much evidence you bring to
    the table.

  2. Mozz...... you forgot some points here a Christian is really
    being "persecuted" in any of his conversations and as such
    has the right to behave in a condescending and arrogant
    manner ensuring your words are twisted so as to have no
    relation to their original meaning and intent/context

    at least "this christian" (no capitals... i have yet to see
    Christian behaviour)

    "Mozz" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    Hi Andrew,

    I thought these points might give you some pause for
    thought regarding the 'structure' of our 'discussions' and
    depending on your view point, a guage as to whether or not
    they are worthwhile continuing for either of us.

    Respectfully and with love,

    Quoted message said:


    Christianity has a built-in defense system that
    effectively wards off attackers with the flick of a cliché
    or pat answer and a retreat to Bible verses considered
    relevant for supporting 'proof'. Here are a few examples.

    (1)The non-believer cannot understand the things of God
    because he doesn't believe; if you would only believe,
    then you would understand. This is clearly a circular
    argument, but one usually used with confidence
    nonetheless. Such a statement further presupposes that
    there is some mystical, epistemological window of
    understanding opened up in the mind of the believer
    because he or she has taken the "leap of faith". Thus
    according to most Christians, anyone, regardless of
    their education, will a priori have a deficient
    understanding of reality unless and until they become a
    believer in the Bible.

    (2)The Bible is the Word of God; therefore, anyone who
    disagrees with it must be wrong. This, again,
    presupposes the very thing it sets out to prove.
    Nevertheless, it serves as a very effective shield
    against rational and critical thinking that might
    undermine the believer's trust in the Bible. To
    undermine this presupposition, one would have to
    convince the Christian to doubt the veracity of the
    Bible, but then this presupposition automatically
    dismisses any such argument to do so outright. So, we
    end up going in a vicious circle: Christian: "The Bible
    is the Word of God." Critic: "But what about verse x
    and it's blatant contradiction with verse y?"
    Christian: "The deficiency is not with the Bible, but
    with our understanding of it. After all, it is the Word
    of God and thus cannot be in error."

    (3)Jesus said we should expect unbelievers to try and lead
    us astray. This might be stated in any number of ways
    using words like "persecution", "deceive" and "Satan"
    to give additional support to the idea that
    Christianity is the truth and anything that seems to be
    subversive should instantly be relegated as a "lie".
    The Christian worldview tends to be very dualistic:
    that is, most things are interpreted as either God's
    will or Satan's doing. The everyday events of life are
    often perceived as either being orchestrated by God or
    the Devil, and often believed to contain warnings or
    messages to help guide one through his or her day.
    Thus, anything you present as contrary to biblical
    truth (however they might interpret it) is often
    automatically interpreted as deceptive, originating
    from some evil source, since it could not be from God.

    (4) The Bible is backed by scientific proof. There is a
    great deal of Christian literature that tries to
    establish the Bible's truthfulness using evidence from
    various scientific fields: physics, astronomy and
    cosmology, medicine, microbiology and archaeology just
    to name a few. But again, most of these writings are
    fueled by the same adamant presuppositions that they
    are setting out to prove (i.e., that the Bible simply
    must be literally true). Thus, the "evidence" is
    almost always very selective, very biased and often
    inaccurately interpreted. Christian professionals are
    quoted and non-Christian professionals often misquoted
    (or taken out of context) in order to shift empirical
    weight to whatever biblical claim being staked. In
    brief, this answer is often given with a cluster of
    quotations and "did you know.?" trivia, but it hardly
    has the kind of backing Christians would like to
    think. Nevertheless, the literature available to
    buttress this kind of defense of the Bible is
    plentiful and gives the Christian the rather confident
    feeling that they're using their opponent's arsenal
    against him while giving strength to their own
    position. Pseudo-science and misapplied good science
    supply a false sense of certainty to beliefs, but
    don't expect it to go away anytime soon. And don't
    expect to change too many minds set in this way.no
    matter how much evidence you bring to the table.

  3. Hi Tiger Lilly,

    Quoted message said:

    Mozz...... you forgot some points here a Christian is
    really being "persecuted" in any of his conversations and
    as such has the right to behave in a condescending and
    arrogant manner ensuring your words are twisted so as to
    have no relation to their original meaning and
    intent/context

    at least "this christian" (no capitals... i have yet to see
    Christian behaviour)

    Point taken!

    Quoted message said:


    "Mozz" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    Hi Andrew,

    I thought these points might give you some pause for
    thought regarding the 'structure' of our 'discussions'
    and depending on your view point, a guage as to whether
    or not they are worthwhile continuing for either of us.

    Respectfully and with love,

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:


    Christianity has a built-in defense system that
    effectively wards off attackers with the flick of a
    cliché or pat answer and a retreat to Bible verses
    considered relevant for supporting 'proof'. Here are a
    few examples.

    (1)The non-believer cannot understand the things of God
    because he doesn't believe; if you would only believe,
    then you would understand. This is clearly a circular
    argument, but one usually used with confidence
    nonetheless. Such a statement further presupposes that
    there is some mystical, epistemological window of
    understanding opened up in the mind of the believer
    because he or she has taken the "leap of faith". Thus
    according to most Christians, anyone, regardless of
    their education, will a priori have a deficient
    understanding of reality unless and until they become
    a believer in the Bible.

    (2)The Bible is the Word of God; therefore, anyone who
    disagrees with it must be wrong. This, again,
    presupposes the very thing it sets out to prove.
    Nevertheless, it serves as a very effective shield
    against rational and critical thinking that might
    undermine the believer's trust in the Bible. To
    undermine this presupposition, one would have to
    convince the Christian to doubt the veracity of the
    Bible, but then this presupposition automatically
    dismisses any such argument to do so outright. So, we
    end up going in a vicious circle: Christian: "The
    Bible is the Word of God." Critic: "But what about
    verse x and it's blatant contradiction with verse y?"
    Christian: "The deficiency is not with the Bible, but
    with our understanding of it. After all, it is the
    Word of God and thus cannot be in error."

    (3)Jesus said we should expect unbelievers to try and
    lead us astray. This might be stated in any number of
    ways using words like "persecution", "deceive" and
    "Satan" to give additional support to the idea that
    Christianity is the truth and anything that seems to
    be subversive should instantly be relegated as a
    "lie". The Christian worldview tends to be very
    dualistic: that is, most things are interpreted as
    either God's will or Satan's doing. The everyday
    events of life are often perceived as either being
    orchestrated by God or the Devil, and often believed
    to contain warnings or messages to help guide one
    through his or her day. Thus, anything you present as
    contrary to biblical truth (however they might
    interpret it) is often automatically interpreted as
    deceptive, originating from some evil source, since it
    could not be from God.

    (4) The Bible is backed by scientific proof. There is a
    great deal of Christian literature that tries to
    establish the Bible's truthfulness using evidence
    from various scientific fields: physics, astronomy
    and cosmology, medicine, microbiology and archaeology
    just to name a few. But again, most of these writings
    are fueled by the same adamant presuppositions that
    they are setting out to prove (i.e., that the Bible
    simply must be literally true). Thus, the "evidence"
    is almost always very selective, very biased and
    often inaccurately interpreted. Christian
    professionals are quoted and non-Christian
    professionals often misquoted (or taken out of
    context) in order to shift empirical weight to
    whatever biblical claim being staked. In brief, this
    answer is often given with a cluster of quotations
    and "did you know.?" trivia, but it hardly has the
    kind of backing Christians would like to think.
    Nevertheless, the literature available to buttress
    this kind of defense of the Bible is plentiful and
    gives the Christian the rather confident feeling that
    they're using their opponent's arsenal against him
    while giving strength to their own position. Pseudo-
    science and misapplied good science supply a false
    sense of certainty to beliefs, but don't expect it to
    go away anytime soon. And don't expect to change too
    many minds set in this way.no matter how much
    evidence you bring to the table.


  4. Hi Mozz,

    The truth remains that God's purpose for my being here is
    to inform.

    That purpose has been and will continue to be fulfilled.

    Sorry, all you have is emptiness.

    You remain in my prayers to God, neighbor, in Christ's name.

    Servant to the humblest person in the universe,

    Andrew

    --
    Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
    Board-Certified Cardiologist
    heartmdphd.comheartmdphd.com

    **
    Who is the humblest person in the universe?
    makeashorterlink.commakeashorterlink.com

    What is all this about?
    makeashorterlink.commakeashorterlink.com

    Is this spam?
    makeashorterlink.commakeashorterlink.com

    Mozz said:

    Hi Andrew,

    I thought these points might give you some pause for thought regarding
    the 'structure' of our 'discussions' and depending on your view point,
    a guage as to whether or not they are worthwhile continuing for either
    of us.

    Respectfully and with love,

    Quoted message said:


    Christianity has a built-in defense system that effectively wards off
    attackers with the flick of a cliché or pat answer and a retreat to
    Bible verses considered relevant for supporting 'proof'. Here are a
    few examples.

    (1)The non-believer cannot understand the things of God because he
    doesn’t believe; if you would only believe, then you would understand.
    This is clearly a circular argument, but one usually used with
    confidence nonetheless. Such a statement further presupposes that
    there is some mystical, epistemological window of understanding opened
    up in the mind of the believer because he or she has taken the “leap
    of faith”. Thus according to most Christians, anyone, regardless of
    their education, will a priori have a deficient understanding of
    reality unless and until they become a believer in the Bible.

    (2)The Bible is the Word of God; therefore, anyone who disagrees with
    it must be wrong. This, again, presupposes the very thing it sets out
    to prove. Nevertheless, it serves as a very effective shield against
    rational and critical thinking that might undermine the believer’s
    trust in the Bible. To undermine this presupposition, one would have
    to convince the Christian to doubt the veracity of the Bible, but then
    this presupposition automatically dismisses any such argument to do so
    outright. So, we end up going in a vicious circle:
    Christian: “The Bible is the Word of God.”
    Critic: “But what about verse x and it’s blatant contradiction with
    verse y?”
    Christian: “The deficiency is not with the Bible, but with our
    understanding of it. After all, it is the Word of God and thus cannot
    be in error.”

    (3)Jesus said we should expect unbelievers to try and lead us astray.
    This might be stated in any number of ways using words like
    “persecution”, “deceive” and “Satan” to give additional support to the
    idea that Christianity is the truth and anything that seems to be
    subversive should instantly be relegated as a “lie”. The Christian
    worldview tends to be very dualistic: that is, most things are
    interpreted as either God’s will or Satan’s doing. The everyday events
    of life are often perceived as either being orchestrated by God or the
    Devil, and often believed to contain warnings or messages to help
    guide one through his or her day. Thus, anything you present as
    contrary to biblical truth (however they might interpret it) is often
    automatically interpreted as deceptive, originating from some evil
    source, since it could not be from God.

    (4) The Bible is backed by scientific proof. There is a great deal of
    Christian literature that tries to establish the Bible’s truthfulness
    using evidence from various scientific fields: physics, astronomy and
    cosmology, medicine, microbiology and archaeology just to name a few.
    But again, most of these writings are fueled by the same adamant
    presuppositions that they are setting out to prove (i.e., that the
    Bible simply must be literally true). Thus, the “evidence” is almost
    always very selective, very biased and often inaccurately interpreted.
    Christian professionals are quoted and non-Christian professionals
    often misquoted (or taken out of context) in order to shift empirical
    weight to whatever biblical claim being staked. In brief, this answer
    is often given with a cluster of quotations and “did you know…?”
    trivia, but it hardly has the kind of backing Christians would like to
    think. Nevertheless, the literature available to buttress this kind of
    defense of the Bible is plentiful and gives the Christian the rather
    confident feeling that they’re using their opponent’s arsenal against
    him while giving strength to their own position. Pseudo-science and
    misapplied good science supply a false sense of certainty to beliefs,
    but don’t expect it to go away anytime soon. And don’t expect to
    change too many minds set in this way…no matter how much evidence you
    bring to the table.

  5. Mozz <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

    Quoted message said:

    Hi Andrew,

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    >>>>>>> Nevertheless, the literature available to
    >>>>>>> buttress this


    kind of

    Quoted message said:

    defense of the Bible is plentiful and gives the Christian
    the rather confident feeling that they?re using their
    opponent?s arsenal against him while giving strength to
    their own position. <<<<<<<<<<

    Why do you seek to create a disharmonious world through
    attack? Christians believe in Satan and know how he makes
    last desperate attempts to use people who are coming closer
    to knowing the love of Jesus.

    Have ears for God's Word, become wise to the wisdom of your
    Father in His way Mozz and know the love Christ had for all
    others. It was not a love born out of the selfish needs of
    the self, but love from one who would give up His life for
    _you_ personally.

    "Jesus said to them, "If God were your Father, you would
    love Me, for I proceeded forth and have come from God, for
    I have not even come on My own initiative, but He sent Me.
    "Why do you not understand what I am saying? {It is}
    because you cannot hear My word. You are of your father the
    devil, and the desires of your father you want to do. He
    was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in
    the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaks
    a lie, he speaks from his own resources, for he is a liar
    and the father of it. "But because I speak the truth, you
    do not believe Me. Which of you convicts Me of sin? And if
    I tell the truth, why do you not believe Me? He who is of
    God hears God's words; therefore you do not hear, because
    you are not of God." NKJ John 8: 42-47

    Carol T

  6. Hi Carol,

    Quoted message said:

    Why do you seek to create a disharmonious world
    through attack?

    I think you are mistaking my questions and observations as
    'attacking'. That's very interesting, that you seem to feel
    threatened by questions.

    Respectfully, there seems little point in you and I
    discussing religious beliefs any further as you just throw
    Bible passages around out of context without any sensible
    rationale.

    I hope you find happiness with your beliefs.

    Mozz x

    Quoted message said:

    Christians believe in Satan and know how he makes last
    desperate attempts to use people who are coming closer to
    knowing the love of Jesus.

    Have ears for God's Word, become wise to the wisdom of your
    Father in His way Mozz and know the love Christ had for all
    others. It was not a love born out of the selfish needs of
    the self, but love from one who would give up His life for
    _you_ personally.

    "Jesus said to them, "If God were your Father, you would
    love Me, for I proceeded forth and have come from God, for
    I have not even come on My own initiative, but He sent Me.
    "Why do you not understand what I am saying? {It is}
    because you cannot hear My word. You are of your father
    the devil, and the desires of your father you want to do.
    He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand
    in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he
    speaks a lie, he speaks from his own resources, for he is
    a liar and the father of it. "But because I speak the
    truth, you do not believe Me. Which of you convicts Me of
    sin? And if I tell the truth, why do you not believe Me?
    He who is of God hears God's words; therefore you do not
    hear, because you are not of God." NKJ John 8: 42-47

    Carol T

  7. "Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD" schrieb:

    Quoted message said:


    Hi Mozz,

    Hi Andrew,

    Quoted message said:

    The truth remains that God's purpose for my being here is
    to inform.

    That purpose has been and will continue to be fulfilled.

    Sorry, all you have is emptiness.

    And all you seem to have is an illusion. And not even a
    happy one. How can you live with the knowledge (from your
    point of view) that the vast majority of mankind is doomed
    for eternal hell? How can there be happiness in heaven while
    all those people suffer in hell?

    Thorsten

    --
    "Nothing in biology makes sense, except in the light of
    evolution"

    (Theodosius Dobzhansky)

  8. Hi Thorsten,

    Thorsten Schier said:

    Hi Andrew,

    Quoted message said:

    The truth remains that God's purpose for my being here
    is to inform.

    That purpose has been and will continue to be fulfilled.

    Sorry, all you have is emptiness.

    And all you seem to have is an illusion.

    That's not what I discern.

    Quoted message said:

    And not even a happy one.

    God fills me with joy.

    Quoted message said:

    How can you live with the knowledge (from your point of
    view) that the vast majority of mankind is doomed for
    eternal hell?

    I do not believe that the vast majority of mankind are
    doomed for eternal hell.

    Everyone can choose at any moment to accept Christ as their
    Lord and Savior.

    Quoted message said:

    How can there be happiness in heaven while all those
    people suffer in hell?

    Greater unhappiness comes from separation from God.

    Quoted message said:


    Thorsten

    Truly, you remain in my prayers, Thorsten, in Christ's name.

    Servant to the humblest person in the universe,

    Andrew

    --
    Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
    Board-Certified Cardiologist
    heartmdphd.comheartmdphd.com

    **
    Who is the humblest person in the universe?
    makeashorterlink.commakeashorterlink.com

    What is all this about?
    makeashorterlink.commakeashorterlink.com

    Is this spam?
    makeashorterlink.commakeashorterlink.com

  9. What all this has to do with cardiology is beyond me. I
    still continue to be amazed at the depths this group has
    descended to.

  10. Mozz <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    >>>>> I think you are mistaking my questions and
    >>>>> observations as


    'attacking'. That's very interesting, that you seem to
    feel threatened by questions. <<<<<<<<<

    Absolutely no threat at all to me. I was simply asking you
    to question your own beliefs by asking why you sought to
    create a disharmony. The content of your post is
    irrelevant to the reasoning for it.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    >>>>> Respectfully, there seems little point in you and I


    discussing

    Quoted message said:

    religious beliefs any further as you just throw Bible
    passages around out of context without any sensible
    rationale. <<<<<<<<<<,

    Why, if your faith is built on solid foundations it will
    stand in the face of God's Word. God wants peace and harmony
    for all people at a level of all understandings, he wants
    wisdom to be utilised for all too. You cannot
    compartmentalise God's Word into your own rationale, He's
    more than yourself.

    You say that you seek enlightenment, yet to be enlightened
    you have to understand the deeper meanings of wisdom to the
    context of the world around you, not within yourself. It is
    not yourself who rights a world if you become a self
    sufficient statute in a tumultuous environment. You have
    simply built a barrier against your responsibities to the
    rest of the universe and to God.

    "And He said, "To you it has been given to know the
    mysteries of the kingdom of God, but to the rest it is
    given in parables, that 'Seeing they may not see, And
    hearing they may not understand.' "Now the parable is this:
    The seed is the word of God. Those by the wayside are the
    ones who hear; then the devil comes and takes away the word
    out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be
    saved." NKJ Luke 8: 10-12

    I don't need to tell you that it is with love I give you
    God's Word. It's a gift from Him for _you_, because He loves
    you too. It's through His Word that He tells you that you
    don't need to be self sufficient or to suppress your
    intellectual gifts. What is in you has been lived the world
    over and can be given to future generations for their
    benefit. In all his wisdom the Buddha never understood this.
    Jesus has alread born the pain for your sins.

    The seed _is_ the Word of God.

    Carol T

  11. George <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

    Quoted message said:

    What all this has to do with cardiology is beyond me. I
    still continue to be amazed at the depths this group has
    descended to.

    Ahh, the affairs of the heart!

    "For if our heart condemns us, God is greater than our
    heart, and knows all things." NKJ 1John 3:20

    Carol T

  12. Carol T said:

    Mozz <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:<[email hidden]>...

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    >>>>>> I think you are mistaking my questions and
    >>>>>> observations as


    'attacking'. That's very interesting, that you seem to
    feel threatened by questions. <<<<<<<<<

    Absolutely no threat at all to me. I was simply asking
    you to question your own beliefs by asking why you
    sought to create a disharmony. The content of your post
    is irrelevant to the reasoning for it.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    >>>>>> Respectfully, there seems little point in you and
    >>>>>> I


    discussing

    Quoted message said:

    religious beliefs any further as you just throw Bible
    passages around out of context without any sensible
    rationale. <<<<<<<<<<,

    Why, if your faith is built on solid foundations it will
    stand in the face of God's Word. God wants peace and
    harmony for all people at a level of all understandings,
    he wants wisdom to be utilised for all too. You cannot
    compartmentalise God's Word into your own rationale, He's
    more than yourself.

    You say that you seek enlightenment, yet to be enlightened
    you have to understand the deeper meanings of wisdom to
    the context of the world around you, not within yourself.
    It is not yourself who rights a world if you become a self
    sufficient statute in a tumultuous environment. You have
    simply built a barrier against your responsibities to the
    rest of the universe and to God.

    "And He said, "To you it has been given to know the
    mysteries of the kingdom of God, but to the rest it is
    given in parables, that 'Seeing they may not see, And
    hearing they may not understand.' "Now the parable is
    this: The seed is the word of God. Those by the wayside
    are the ones who hear; then the devil comes and takes away
    the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and
    be saved." NKJ Luke 8: 10-12

    I don't need to tell you that it is with love I give
    you God's Word. It's a gift from Him for _you_, because
    He loves you too. It's through His Word that He tells
    you that you don't need to be self sufficient or to
    suppress your intellectual gifts. What is in you has
    been lived the world over and can be given to future
    generations for their benefit. In all his wisdom the
    Buddha never understood this. Jesus has alread born the
    pain for your sins.

    The seed _is_ the Word of God.

    Carol T

    Your eloquence glorifies God, Carol.

    May God continue to bless you and yours today and every day,
    in Christ's name.

    Servant to the humblest person in the universe,

    Andrew

    --
    Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
    Board-Certified Cardiologist
    heartmdphd.comheartmdphd.com

    **
    Who is the humblest person in the universe?
    makeashorterlink.commakeashorterlink.com

    What is all this about?
    makeashorterlink.commakeashorterlink.com

    Is this spam?
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  13. Carol T said:

    Mozz <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:<[email hidden]>...

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    >>>>>> I think you are mistaking my questions and
    >>>>>> observations as


    'attacking'. That's very interesting, that you seem to
    feel threatened by questions. <<<<<<<<<

    Absolutely no threat at all to me. I was simply asking
    you to question your own beliefs by asking why you
    sought to create a disharmony. The content of your post
    is irrelevant to the reasoning for it.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    >>>>>> Respectfully, there seems little point in you and
    >>>>>> I


    discussing

    Quoted message said:

    religious beliefs any further as you just throw Bible
    passages around out of context without any sensible
    rationale. <<<<<<<<<<,

    Why, if your faith is built on solid foundations it will
    stand in the face of God's Word. God wants peace and
    harmony for all people at a level of all understandings,
    he wants wisdom to be utilised for all too. You cannot
    compartmentalise God's Word into your own rationale, He's
    more than yourself.

    You say that you seek enlightenment, yet to be enlightened
    you have to understand the deeper meanings of wisdom to
    the context of the world around you, not within yourself.
    It is not yourself who rights a world if you become a self
    sufficient statute in a tumultuous environment. You have
    simply built a barrier against your responsibities to the
    rest of the universe and to God.

    "And He said, "To you it has been given to know the
    mysteries of the kingdom of God, but to the rest it is
    given in parables, that 'Seeing they may not see, And
    hearing they may not understand.' "Now the parable is
    this: The seed is the word of God. Those by the wayside
    are the ones who hear; then the devil comes and takes away
    the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and
    be saved." NKJ Luke 8: 10-12

    I don't need to tell you that it is with love I give
    you God's Word. It's a gift from Him for _you_, because
    He loves you too. It's through His Word that He tells
    you that you don't need to be self sufficient or to
    suppress your intellectual gifts. What is in you has
    been lived the world over and can be given to future
    generations for their benefit. In all his wisdom the
    Buddha never understood this. Jesus has alread born the
    pain for your sins.

    The seed _is_ the Word of God.

    Carol T

    Your eloquence glorifies God, Carol.

    May God continue to bless you and yours today and every day,
    in Christ's name.

    Servant to the humblest person in the universe,

    Andrew

    --
    Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
    Board-Certified Cardiologist
    heartmdphd.comheartmdphd.com

    **
    Who is the humblest person in the universe?
    makeashorterlink.commakeashorterlink.com

    What is all this about?
    makeashorterlink.commakeashorterlink.com

    Is this spam?
    makeashorterlink.commakeashorterlink.com

  14. In article <[email hidden]>, Carol T

    Quoted message said:

    You say that you seek enlightenment, yet to be enlightened
    you have to understand the deeper meanings of wisdom to
    the context of the world around you, not within yourself.

    Dear Carol, The kingdom of heaven is within you. Elliott

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