Ankling?

Man it's been forever since I heard ankling! I don't think
there is an equivalent in running though!

---

Tuesday, March 23, 2004 Chateau Grand Lakewood, New Jersey

THE VICE PRESIDENT:

Our strategy has several elements. We've strengthened our
defenses here at home, organizing the government to protect
the homeland. But a good defense is not enough. The
terrorist enemy holds no territory, defends no population,
is unconstrained by rules of warfare, and respects no law of
morality. Such an enemy cannot be deterred, contained,
appeased, or negotiated with -- it can only be destroyed.
And that, ladies and gentlemen, is the business at hand.

Quoted message said:

Man it's been forever since I heard ankling! I don't think
there is an equivalent in running though!

I thought perhaps I had heard this term applied at least to
sprinting technique, but I could well be wrong -- perhaps it
is exclusively a cycling thing. Nonetheless, I do practice
something akin to it when on my feet!

[email hidden] (TopCounsel) wrote in
:"]news:[email hidden]:

Quoted message said:

I recently picked up the amount of cycling I'm doing in
order to diversify my workouts, and doing so reminded me
of something we always were told was important: "Ankling"
-- affirmatively hinging your ankle consciously all the
way around your cycle, to maximize your push at all points
of the stroke, and to enhance your ability to pull back or
up, as well as push down, where appropriate.

The question I have is this: Is there an "equivalent" to
"ankling" in the contemplation of running form? Is it
discussed? Perhaps because of my cycling background, it
has often occurred to me to consciously remember to treat
my feet as living and active organs while landing and
pushing off, rather than treating them like 2x4's rigidly
hinged to the end of my legs and just slamming them down
over and over. I know I run faster and with less
discomfort if I am sort of "ankling" my way through each
stride. How does this concept fit into running?

If you were to perform a similar ankling technique while
running, I believe it would cause excessive heel strike.
Also, a certain degree ankling while running is natural.
After all, think about not bending the ankles while running.
It would be nearly impossible to not bend the ankles and
continute to run.

-Phil

"TopCounsel" <[email hidden]> wrote

Quoted message said:

The question I have is this: Is there an "equivalent" to
"ankling" in the contemplation of running form? Is it
discussed?

I went to a seminar put on by a 2:14 marathoner, and he said
that he consciously gave a strong flick with his forefoot
and toes with each stride. He thought that was the key to a
powerful stride.

When running uphill (my specialty), most of the effort seems
to come from the ankles/calves in a springing push-off. On
steeper hills, my heels don't even touch the ground. I
thought everyone did that. You can push off mainly from your
heels -- eg, when you have Achilles problems -- but it's not
very powerful.

--Dan

Dan Stumpus said:

"TopCounsel" <[email hidden]> wrote

Quoted message said:

The question I have is this: Is there an "equivalent" to
"ankling" in the contemplation of running form? Is it
discussed?

I went to a seminar put on by a 2:14 marathoner, and he
said that he consciously gave a strong flick with his
forefoot and toes with each stride. He thought that was
the key to a powerful stride.

When running uphill (my specialty), most of the effort
seems to come from the ankles/calves in a springing push-
off. On steeper hills, my heels don't even touch the
ground. I thought everyone did that. You can push off
mainly from your heels -- eg, when you have Achilles
problems -- but it's not very powerful.

Hmmm, am I misinterpreting something here or are we talking
about different things. If a person has achilles issues
(that would include me, although they are behaving
themselves at the moment), they probably have limited
flexibility in calves, so they may not have the flexibility
to have their heels touch while going up hill - at least on,
say 15-30% slopes. Or are you talking about a sideways gait,
where you plant your foot across the slope and push up with
the whole foot (what my GP had me do to walk hills when my
AT/PF was really bad a number of years ago).

I'm a long ways from springing up hills, but working on
strengthening that motion (calf raises on ramp to simulate
hill). I also make a point of dorsiflexing, so the achilles
is extended, ready to spring back when pushing off when
going up hill. For some reason, that also eliminates any
shin problems that have popped up in the past.

Dot

--
"Success is different things to different people" -Bernd
Heinrich in Racing the Antelope

Phil M. said:

[email hidden] (TopCounsel) wrote in news:20040323171814.26284.00000264@mb-
m23.aol.com:

Quoted message said:

I recently picked up the amount of cycling I'm doing in
order to diversify my workouts, and doing so reminded me
of something we always were told was important: "Ankling"
-- affirmatively hinging your ankle consciously all the
way around your cycle, to maximize your push at all
points of the stroke, and to enhance your ability to pull
back or up, as well as push down, where appropriate.

The question I have is this: Is there an "equivalent" to
"ankling" in the contemplation of running form? Is it
discussed? Perhaps because of my cycling background, it
has often occurred to me to consciously remember to treat
my feet as living and active organs while landing and
pushing off, rather than treating them like 2x4's rigidly
hinged to the end of my legs and just slamming them down
over and over. I know I run faster and with less
discomfort if I am sort of "ankling" my way through each
stride. How does this concept fit into running?

Some speculation to consider:

To the extent that you recruit other muscles to reduce the
burden on the primary propellers, could we not achieve some
equivalence? This might involve achieving good form, without
overstriding, with minimal vertical bounce, quiet foot
plant, more knee flex on the swing, developing and
recruiting the lower leg to get good spring, rapid turnover,
proper arm motion ... And, also, one could learn to depend
less on shoes with thick cushioned heels by gradually
developing the support muscles.

A faster cadence increases the burden on the antagonists, in
a manner similar to ankling. It adds spring, increases
stride length by lengthening trajectory, carries more
momentum by reducing the range of horiztonal speed variation
in different parts of the stride cycle ... Ankling recruits
the antagonists to help cyclists achieve higher rpm and
insure that the weight of the recovering leg does not itself
pose a burden on the propeller. Similaly, by recuiting
corporal, running-support muscles to eliminate overstride
and increase cadence, the runner insures that the foreward
leg does not slow forward motion. In both ankling and
running the thigh lifts play similar roles.

The articles on how the foot functions in running in those
online materials about barefoot running, irrespective of our
interest in the objective, offers insight in how the two
motions compare.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

If you were to perform a similar ankling technique while
running, I believe it would cause excessive heel strike.
Also, a certain degree ankling while running is natural.
After all, think about not bending the ankles while
running. It would be nearly impossible to not bend the
ankles and continute to run.

-Phil