General fitness, health and nutrition · Public discussion

Freedom of choice?

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General fitness, health and nutrition
Published
7 April 2004
Last activity
10 April 2004
Original author
Peter Moran
Posts
46
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  1. The man referred to at
    sumeria.netrectcan.html has died. He has
    been mentioned here before. All should read his story.

    Neil used alternative treatments, and dozens of them, for a
    rectal cancer. I feel rather sad at his death, as I got to
    know him quite well through his posts, and corresponded with
    him on a couple of occasions. I once tried to get him to
    reconsider surgery.

    This is what the person mostly responsible for Neil's
    selection of treatments has to say about it ----

    "Neil Jensen died about a month ago I am sad to say. He
    was very generous in trying to help out other cancer
    patients, but having been independent all his life, he
    found it very difficult to ask others for help. He could
    be rather stoic about his situation and he did not
    discuss his rapid deterioration. Previously he did well
    using a variety of natural treatments from many sources.
    He long out all the predictions of his conventional VA
    physicians."

    Neil left a full enough account of his progress for us to
    know that the only treatment among dozens that produced even
    temporary objective benefit was an incomplete debulking of
    the tumour by a quack Mexican surgeon, who should be shot at
    dawn for performing surgery that he should know would
    produce only temporary benefits.

    The fact that Neil lived on for three years with only local
    symptoms such as pain, bleeding, bowel difficulties
    (including incontinence) and bladder symptoms simply
    suggests that he had a very slowly growing tumour with
    little metastatic potential. He thus had an excellent chance
    of being cured by surgery. Note that within alternative
    medicine medical opinion is held to be worthless and
    dominated by venal self-interest unless it happens include
    unwise predictions regarding the progress of a newly
    diagnosed cancer. It can then be employed to make
    alternative treatments look as though they did something,
    when the progress is well within the range of rates of
    progression of cancers..

    Neil was a strong believer in conspiracies of various types,
    including the one about the suppression of effective cancer
    cures. He embarked on his program of self-cure with great
    confidence.

    He had, of course, an absolute right to reject the offered
    surgery with its probable need for a colostomy. Yet it is
    fair to ask what his choice would have been if he had access
    to more accurate information about his prospects with the
    alternatives. He certainly got to test them out exhaustively
    under quite favourable conditions (no prior chemotherapy or
    radiotherapy). He even had the guidance of a self-proclaimed
    "expert" who presents himself as being up with the latest
    and greatest of the "alternatives" (Sorry, Vince, if you get
    to read this).

    This is not a clear example of patient choice. It might be
    if the prospects of cure with alternative treatments were
    not such a closely guarded secret. I don't blame him for
    wanting to avoid a colostomy, but his ultimate misery was
    far worse.

    Peter Moran

  2. Quoted message said:

    Subject: Freedom of choice? From: "Peter Moran"
    [email hidden] Date: 4/7/2004 1:17 PM Pacific Standard
    Time Message-id: <40746fd7$0$26953$61c65585@uq-127creek-reader-
    02.brisbane.pipenetworks.com.au>

    The man referred to at
    sumeria.netrectcan.html has died. He has
    been mentioned here before. All should read his story.

    Neil used alternative treatments, and dozens of them, for a
    rectal cancer. I feel rather sad at his death, as I got to
    know him quite well through his posts, and corresponded
    with him on a couple of occasions. I once tried to get him
    to reconsider surgery.

    This is what the person mostly responsible for Neil's
    selection of treatments has to say about it ----

    This person's description tells all.

    Quoted message said:

    incomplete debulking of the tumour by a quack Mexican
    surgeon, who should be shot at dawn

    Quoted message said:

    Note that within alternative medicine medical opinion is
    held to be worthless and dominated by venal self-interest
    unless it happens include unwise predictions regarding the
    progress of a newly diagnosed cancer

    Quoted message said:

    It can then be employed to make alternative treatments look
    as though they did something, when the progress is well
    within the range of rates of progression of cancers..

    As none of that is true, there is no need to go on with this
    kind of lying opinion.

    So very like, you. Peter.

    Had he not been told all about shiny pink colons, he might
    have indeed lived longer by not being told lies.

    He may have even tried some cleanses before he condiion
    deterioriated.

    Jan

  3. It's sad to see anyone die of cancer, but some of us have
    a dark empty holes in their souls which came from
    medicine. My mam had freedom of choice (mainstream
    medicine), and they murdered her in the name of
    palliation, they didn't have a clue.. I want a choice when
    I get cancer, not some monopolistic stifled organisation
    run by stupid MD thieves. Anth

    "Peter Moran" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:40746fd7$0$26953$61c65585@uq-127creek-reader-
    02.brisbane.pipenetworks.com.au...

    Quoted message said:

    The man referred to at
    sumeria.netrectcan.html has


    died.

    Quoted message said:

    He has been mentioned here before. All should read
    his story.

    Neil used alternative treatments, and dozens of them, for
    a rectal


    cancer.

    Quoted message said:

    I feel rather sad at his death, as I got to know him quite
    well through


    his

    Quoted message said:

    posts, and corresponded with him on a couple of occasions.
    I once tried


    to

    Quoted message said:

    get him to reconsider surgery.

    This is what the person mostly responsible for Neil's
    selection of treatments has to say about it ----

    "Neil Jensen died about a month ago I am sad to say.
    He was very generous in trying to help out other
    cancer patients, but having been independent all his
    life, he found it very difficult to ask others for
    help. He could be rather stoic about his situation and
    he did not discuss his rapid deterioration. Previously
    he did well using a variety of natural treatments from
    many sources. He long out all the predictions of his
    conventional VA physicians."

    Neil left a full enough account of his progress for us to
    know that the


    only

    Quoted message said:

    treatment among dozens that produced even temporary
    objective benefit


    was

    Quoted message said:

    an incomplete debulking of the tumour by a quack Mexican
    surgeon, who


    should

    Quoted message said:

    be shot at dawn for performing surgery that he should know
    would produce only temporary benefits.

    The fact that Neil lived on for three years with only
    local symptoms such


    as

    Quoted message said:

    pain, bleeding, bowel difficulties (including
    incontinence) and bladder symptoms simply suggests that he
    had a very slowly growing tumour with little metastatic
    potential. He thus had an excellent chance of being


    cured

    Quoted message said:

    by surgery. Note that within alternative medicine medical
    opinion is


    held

    Quoted message said:

    to be worthless and dominated by venal self-interest
    unless it happens include unwise predictions regarding the
    progress of a newly diagnosed cancer. It can then be
    employed to make alternative treatments look as though
    they did something, when the progress is well within the
    range of rates of progression of cancers..

    Neil was a strong believer in conspiracies of various
    types, including the one about the suppression of
    effective cancer cures. He embarked on his program of self-
    cure with great confidence.

    He had, of course, an absolute right to reject the offered
    surgery with


    its

    Quoted message said:

    probable need for a colostomy. Yet it is fair to ask what
    his choice


    would

    Quoted message said:

    have been if he had access to more accurate information
    about his


    prospects

    Quoted message said:

    with the alternatives. He certainly got to test them out
    exhaustively under quite favourable conditions (no prior
    chemotherapy or


    radiotherapy).

    Quoted message said:

    He even had the guidance of a self-proclaimed "expert" who
    presents


    himself

    Quoted message said:

    as being up with the latest and greatest of the
    "alternatives" (Sorry, Vince, if you get to read this).

    This is not a clear example of patient choice. It might
    be if the


    prospects

    Quoted message said:

    of cure with alternative treatments were not such a
    closely guarded


    secret.

    Quoted message said:

    I don't blame him for wanting to avoid a colostomy, but
    his ultimate


    misery

    Quoted message said:

    was far worse.

    Peter Moran

  4. (Jan) said:
    Quoted message said:

    Subject: Freedom of choice? From: "Peter Moran"
    [email hidden] Date: 4/7/2004 1:17 PM Pacific Standard
    Time Message-id: <40746fd7$0$26953$61c65585@uq-127creek-reader-
    02.brisbane.pipenetworks.com.au>

    The man referred to at
    sumeria.netrectcan.html has died. He
    has been mentioned here before. All should read his story.

    Neil used alternative treatments, and dozens of them, for
    a rectal cancer. I feel rather sad at his death, as I got
    to know him quite well through his posts, and corresponded
    with him on a couple of occasions. I once tried to get him
    to reconsider surgery.

    This is what the person mostly responsible for Neil's
    selection of treatments has to say about it ----

    This person's description tells all.

    Quoted message said:

    incomplete debulking of the tumour by a quack Mexican
    surgeon, who should be shot at dawn

    Quoted message said:

    Note that within alternative medicine medical opinion is
    held to be worthless and dominated by venal self-interest
    unless it happens include unwise predictions regarding the
    progress of a newly diagnosed cancer

    Quoted message said:

    It can then be employed to make alternative treatments
    look as though they did something, when the progress is
    well within the range of rates of progression of cancers..

    As none of that is true, there is no need to go on with
    this kind of lying opinion.

    So says Jan Drew, psychopathic liar. Btw, how can an opinion
    be a lie. In order to be a lie the statement must not only
    be false but the person making the claim *knows* it to be
    false *and* it is said in order to deceive.

    For example when Jan Drew claimed that she did not begin to
    regain her health until *after* her mercury level declined
    this is a lie because
    1) It is false since Jan Drew began to regain her health
    when her mercury level was the highest in her life.
    2) Jan Drew knew that she began to regain her health before
    her mercury level dropped because she admitted that her
    feeling better than she had in two years was because of
    RELIEF and had absolutely nothing to do with her mercury
    level lowering
    3) Jan Drew deliberately lied in order to deceive people
    into thinking she really had mercury poisoning when she
    knows that she did not.

    This is just one example of how Jan DRew lied about her
    allegation of mercury poisoning. There are many other
    equally egregious examples. Jan Drew is one to call
    others liars. She would not know the truth if it bit her
    in her nose.

    Quoted message said:


    So very like, you. Peter.

    Had he not been told all about shiny pink colons, he might
    have indeed lived longer by not being told lies.

    He may have even tried some cleanses before he condiion
    deterioriated.

    Yeah, someone else might have cleaned him out of more of his
    money before he died. There is absolutely no evidence that
    cleaning out his colon would do anything for his cancer
    despite what Jan Drew claims.

    Aloha,

    Rich

    PS: If Jan responds to this post it will be ONLY to make a
    personal attack. Just watch. She will certainly not
    reconcile her allegation that she knows it was the
    mercury because she did not begin to regain her health
    until after the mercury level dropped.

    Quoted message said:


    Jan

    -------------------------------------------------
    -------------------------------------------------

    The best defense to logic is ignorance

  5. Quoted message said:

    It's sad to see anyone die of cancer, but some of us have
    a dark empty holes in their souls which came from
    medicine. My mam had freedom of choice (mainstream
    medicine), and they murdered her in the name of
    palliation, they didn't have a clue.. I want a choice when
    I get cancer, not some monopolistic stifled organisation
    run by stupid MD thieves. Anth

    Anth, I'm sure you can get as many apricot kernels as you'd
    care to eat in your cancer therapy. Alternately, you have
    access to alternating current to run your zapper, rife
    machine, or orgonon generator.

    You'll be checking into a proper hospital when you come to
    your senses.

  6. As if I would take apricot kernals llsa, or essiac or
    whatever quack treatments out there. Anth

    "Unfiltered Ilsa" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    It's sad to see anyone die of cancer, but some of us have
    a dark empty


    holes

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    in their souls which came from medicine. My mam had
    freedom of choice (mainstream medicine), and they
    murdered her


    in

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    the name of palliation, they didn't have a clue.. I want
    a choice when I get cancer, not some monopolistic stifled
    organisation run by stupid MD thieves. Anth

    Anth, I'm sure you can get as many apricot kernels as
    you'd care to eat in


    your

    Quoted message said:

    cancer therapy. Alternately, you have access to
    alternating current to


    run

    Quoted message said:

    your zapper, rife machine, or orgonon generator.

    You'll be checking into a proper hospital when you come to
    your senses.

  7. Quoted message said:

    Subject: Re: Freedom of choice?
    From: "Anth" [email hidden]
    Date: 4/7/04 6:29 PM Eastern Daylight Time
    Message-id: <[email hidden]>

    I feel sorry for you Anth.

    At her age of 54, the docs got my mother as well. They
    misdiagnosed a case of peritonitis caused by a clumsy and
    incompentent surgeon.

    I did win the lawsuit, but it is of little solace, and I
    doubt that the docs ever learned a thing from her death.

    Keep in mind that the most arrogant of the MDs are those who
    are in the teaching hospitals. They truly are treated as,
    and act like, medical gods.

    Dr. C PhD

    Quoted message said:

    It's sad to see anyone die of cancer, but some of us have
    a dark empty holes in their souls which came from
    medicine. My mam had freedom of choice (mainstream
    medicine), and they murdered her in the name of
    palliation, they didn't have a clue.. I want a choice when
    I get cancer, not some monopolistic stifled organisation
    run by stupid MD thieves. Anth

  8. "Anth" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    It's sad to see anyone die of cancer, but some of us have
    a dark empty


    holes

    Quoted message said:

    in their souls which came from medicine. My mam had
    freedom of choice (mainstream medicine), and they
    murdered her


    in

    Quoted message said:

    the name of palliation, they didn't have a clue.. I want a
    choice when I get cancer, .

    No you don't, Anth. You want *informed* choice. Are you
    being offered a cure, or just that you might live a little
    longer? If it is cure, and this is what the testimonials are
    usually intended to convey, what is the actual cure rate?
    What happened to the last ten or twenty patients who used
    this method? How does any claimed cure rate compare with the
    other fifty or so alternative treatments on offer? What is
    the success rate with my particular kind of cancer, as
    compared with readily available data as to the results with
    conventional treatments?

    Unless you can somethow extract that kind of information
    from the alt.med mess, you are not exerting any kind of
    informed choice at all. You are making a emotionally driven
    gamble on terribly scanty information and claims that you
    cannot verify.

    Peter Moran.

    .

  9. Jan said:

    As none of that is true, there is no need to go on with
    this kind of lying opinion.

    Lying? What would you know about lying, other than having
    told so many of them?

    Like this one.

    To see Jan's ORIGINAL POSTING, go here:w.google.com/groups?selm=20040310000815.25804.00001173%40mb-
    m01.aol.com

    Jan said:
    Quoted message said:

    From: Mark Thorson [email hidden]

    Instead of responding to what you say, Jan is trying to
    discredit you by making insinuations about who you are or
    what your motives may be.

    Soon, she may accuse you of being on the payroll of the
    pharmaceutical companies, etc. That's the way Jan works.

    That would be ANOTHER LIE from Mark Thorson. I have
    NEVER accused


    anyone of

    Quoted message said:

    any such thing.

    So do prove your claim Mark!!!!!

    You can't YOU JUST LIED AGAIN!!!!!!!

    ----- example quotes of Jan accusing people of being paid
    shills -----

    Quoting from this ORIGINAL posting from Jan Drew:w.google.com/groups?selm=20030415173745.18794.00000646%40mb-
    fn.aol.com

    Any time alt. health is mentioned the personal trashing
    starts. Mostly comes from paid shill Mark Probert.

    Quoting from this ORIGINAL posting from Jan Drew:w.google.com/groups?selm=20030412210802.08778.00000680%40mb-
    fw.aol.com

    Internet bully Mark Probert who is a paid shill and lives
    off his wife.

    Quoting from this ORIGINAL posting from Jan Drew:w.google.com/groups?selm=20030410170838.14245.00000347%40mb-
    ct.aol.com

    As for Mark, he is a paid shill and lives off his wife.

    Quoting from this ORIGINAL posting from Jan Drew:w.google.com/groups?selm=20030325123827.25124.00000246%40mb-
    mn.aol.com

    As long as Mark is here, the paid shill will call names
    when in fact he is the one who is a bigot. Speaking of his
    own people.

  10. "Jan" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    Subject: Freedom of choice? From: "Peter Moran"
    [email hidden] Date: 4/7/2004 1:17 PM Pacific
    Standard Time Message-id:

    <40746fd7$0$26953$61c65585@uq-127creek-reader-
    02.brisbane.pipenetworks.com.


    au>

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:


    The man referred to at
    sumeria.netrectcan.html has


    died.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    He has been mentioned here before. All should read
    his story.

    Neil used alternative treatments, and dozens of them, for
    a rectal


    cancer.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    I feel rather sad at his death, as I got to know him
    quite well through


    his

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    posts, and corresponded with him on a couple of
    occasions. I once tried


    to

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    get him to reconsider surgery.

    This is what the person mostly responsible for Neil's
    selection of treatments has to say about it ----

    This person's description tells all.

    Quoted message said:

    incomplete debulking of the tumour by a quack Mexican
    surgeon, who


    should

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    be shot at dawn

    Quoted message said:

    Note that within alternative medicine medical opinion is
    held to be worthless and dominated by venal self-interest
    unless it happens include unwise predictions regarding
    the progress of a newly diagnosed cancer

    Quoted message said:

    It can then be employed to make alternative treatments
    look as though they did something, when the progress is
    well within the range of rates of progression of
    cancers..

    As none of that is true, there is no need to go on with
    this kind of lying opinion.

    So very like, you. Peter.

    Had he not been told all about shiny pink colons, he might
    have indeed


    lived

    Quoted message said:

    longer by not being told lies.

    He may have even tried some cleanses before he condiion
    deterioriated.

    Jan


    Good clear observation. Kudos Jan.

  11. "Jan" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    Subject: Freedom of choice? From: "Peter Moran"
    [email hidden] Date: 4/7/2004 1:17 PM Pacific
    Standard Time Message-id:

    <40746fd7$0$26953$61c65585@uq-127creek-reader-
    02.brisbane.pipenetworks.com.


    au>

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:


    The man referred to at
    sumeria.netrectcan.html has


    died.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    He has been mentioned here before. All should read
    his story.

    Neil used alternative treatments, and dozens of them, for
    a rectal


    cancer.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    I feel rather sad at his death, as I got to know him
    quite well through


    his

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    posts, and corresponded with him on a couple of
    occasions. I once tried


    to

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    get him to reconsider surgery.

    This is what the person mostly responsible for Neil's
    selection of treatments has to say about it ----

    This person's description tells all.

    Quoted message said:

    incomplete debulking of the tumour by a quack Mexican
    surgeon, who


    should

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    be shot at dawn

    Quoted message said:

    Note that within alternative medicine medical opinion is
    held to be worthless and dominated by venal self-interest
    unless it happens include unwise predictions regarding
    the progress of a newly diagnosed cancer

    Quoted message said:

    It can then be employed to make alternative treatments
    look as though they did something, when the progress is
    well within the range of rates of progression of
    cancers..

    As none of that is true, there is no need to go on with
    this kind of lying opinion.

    So very like, you. Peter.

    Had he not been told all about shiny pink colons, he might
    have indeed


    lived

    Quoted message said:

    longer by not being told lies.

    He may have even tried some cleanses before he condiion
    deterioriated.

    Jan

    I wonder if there is a special section of Hell for
    Christians who, with no knowledge of the subject matter at
    all, encourage people to entrust their lives to treatments
    with no track record of ever curing or benefiting cancer.

    There should be. It should also apply to those like Jan who
    don't really believe what they say and merely spout such
    stuff to stir others up.

    Peter Moran

  12. Damn my filters are good. Despite her best trolling efforts
    they work everytime!

    Think about it folks. It can be done successfully!

    "Anth" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    As if I would take apricot kernals llsa, or essiac or
    whatever quack treatments out there. Anth

    "Unfiltered Ilsa" <[email hidden]> wrote in
    message news:20040407183349.13686.00000937@mb-
    m10.aol.com...

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    It's sad to see anyone die of cancer, but some of us
    have a dark empty


    holes

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    in their souls which came from medicine. My mam had
    freedom of choice (mainstream medicine), and they
    murdered


    her

    Quoted message said:

    in

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    the name of palliation, they didn't have a clue.. I
    want a choice when I get cancer, not some monopolistic
    stifled organisation run by stupid MD thieves. Anth

    Anth, I'm sure you can get as many apricot kernels as
    you'd care to eat


    in

    Quoted message said:

    your

    Quoted message said:

    cancer therapy. Alternately, you have access to
    alternating current to


    run

    Quoted message said:

    your zapper, rife machine, or orgonon generator.

    You'll be checking into a proper hospital when you come
    to your senses.

  13. "Peter Moran" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    The man referred to at
    sumeria.netrectcan.html has


    died.

    Quoted message said:

    He has been mentioned here before. All should read
    his story.


    ... snip...

    Here is his obituary:
    obits.abqjournal.comresults

  14. "Jan" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    Subject: Re: Freedom of choice? From: "Peter Moran"
    [email hidden] Date: 4/7/2004 4:24 PM Pacific
    Standard Time Message-id:

    <40749bd1$0$26949$61c65585@uq-127creek-reader-
    02.brisbane.pipenetworks.com.


    au>

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    "Jan" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:20040407182231.29754.00000914@mb-
    m11.aol.com...

    Quoted message said:

    >Subject: Freedom of choice? From: "Peter Moran"
    >[email hidden] Date: 4/7/2004 1:17 PM Pacific
    >Standard Time Message-id:

    Quoted message said:

    <40746fd7$0$26953$61c65585@uq-127creek-reader-
    02.brisbane.pipenetworks.com


    .

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    au>

    Quoted message said:

    >
    >The man referred to at
    >sumeria.netrectcan.html has


    died.

    Quoted message said:

    >He has been mentioned here before. All should read his
    >story.
    >
    >Neil used alternative treatments, and dozens of them,
    >for a rectal


    cancer.

    Quoted message said:

    >I feel rather sad at his death, as I got to know him
    >quite well


    through

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    his

    Quoted message said:

    >posts, and corresponded with him on a couple of
    >occasions. I once


    tried

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    to

    Quoted message said:

    >get him to reconsider surgery.
    >
    >This is what the person mostly responsible for Neil's
    >selection of treatments has to say about it ----

    This person's description tells all.

    > incomplete debulking of the tumour by a quack Mexican
    > surgeon, who


    should

    Quoted message said:

    >be shot at dawn

    >Note that within alternative medicine medical opinion
    >is held to be worthless and dominated by venal self-
    >interest unless it happens include unwise predictions
    >regarding the progress of a newly diagnosed cancer

    >It can then be employed to make alternative treatments
    >look as though they did something, when the progress
    >is well within the range


    of

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    >rates of progression of cancers..

    As none of that is true, there is no need to go on with
    this kind of


    lying

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    opinion.

    So very like, you. Peter.

    Had he not been told all about shiny pink colons, he
    might have indeed


    lived

    Quoted message said:

    longer by not being told lies.

    He may have even tried some cleanses before he condiion
    deterioriated.

    Jan

    I wonder if there is a special section of Hell for
    Christians who, with


    no

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    knowledge of the subject matter at all, encourage people
    to entrust


    their

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    lives to treatments with no track record of ever curing
    or benefiting cancer.

    I wonder about lots of things, one being how people like
    you have such big EGO's and make all kinds of false
    assumptions.

    There are several in the above, care to correct them?

    Quoted message said:

    There should be. It should also apply to those like Jan
    who don't really believe what they say and merely spout
    such stuff to stir others up.

    Peter Moran

    Umm, now you are judging. I am not one to say what I don't
    believe.

    Of course you are. You do it all the time.

    Or are you now going to actually produce some evidence that
    cleanses have an effect on cancer, or any effect in
    preventing cancer? You say this man need not have died of
    cancer if he had used cleanses "before his condiion
    deterioriated". What evidence can you produce for that?
    There is, of course, none whatsoever, and if you look at
    Neil's site you will see endoscopic pictures showing how
    "shiny pink" it was, even around his cancer.

    You are an alt supporter of the common "let's pretend" and
    "let's stir up those awful doctors" persuasion. I am quite
    confident you would not entrust a potentially curable
    cancer, say of the breast, to Hulda Clark, or any other
    alternative pracititoner. You would not have Neil Jensen's
    courage and level of conviction. I am sure that applies to
    Scudamore and many others who like to play the same game.
    The tragedy is when people like Neil fail to see that it is
    all a game and offer up their lives unnecessarily.

    Peter Moran

  15. "Jan" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    Subject: Re: Freedom of choice? From: "Peter Moran"
    [email hidden] Date: 4/7/2004 4:06 PM Pacific
    Standard Time Message-id:

    <40749793$0$26949$61c65585@uq-127creek-reader-
    02.brisbane.pipenetworks.com.


    au>

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    "Anth" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:X5udnaQhj_g1HendRVn-
    [email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    It's sad to see anyone die of cancer, but some of us
    have a dark empty


    holes

    Quoted message said:

    in their souls which came from medicine. My mam had
    freedom of choice (mainstream medicine), and they
    murdered


    her

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    in

    Quoted message said:

    the name of palliation, they didn't have a clue.. I
    want a choice when I get cancer, .

    No you don't, Anth. You want *informed* choice

    *Informed* by whom, and who are YOU to tell Anth what he
    wants?????

    I know exactly what he wants because he has been doing some
    in depth research into alternative treatments of cancer. He
    is not satisfied with just listening to, and regurgitating,
    all the propaganda, as you are.

    Peter Moran

  16. "HCN" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:iO3dc.218511$po.1097720@attbi_s52...

    Quoted message said:


    "Peter Moran" <[email hidden]> wrote in message


    news:40746fd7$0$26953$61c65585@uq-127creek-reader-
    02.brisbane.pipenetworks.com.au...

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    The man referred to at
    sumeria.netrectcan.html has


    died.

    Quoted message said:

    He has been mentioned here before. All should read his
    story.


    ... snip...

    Here is his obituary:
    obits.abqjournal.comresults

    Thanks. I actually have a lot of respect for him.

    Peter Moran

  17. (Same here ruptured bowel due to stenting operation - killed
    her in 1-2 weeks) Sorry about your mam too. Anth

    "DRCEEPHD" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:20040407192317.27471.00000872@mb-
    m12.aol.com...

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    Subject: Re: Freedom of choice? From: "Anth"
    [email hidden] Date: 4/7/04 6:29 PM Eastern
    Daylight Time Message-id: <X5udnaQhj_g1HendRVn-
    [email hidden]>

    I feel sorry for you Anth.

    At her age of 54, the docs got my mother as well. They
    misdiagnosed a


    case of

    Quoted message said:

    peritonitis caused by a clumsy and incompentent surgeon.

    I did win the lawsuit, but it is of little solace, and I
    doubt that the


    docs

    Quoted message said:

    ever learned a thing from her death.

    Keep in mind that the most arrogant of the MDs are those
    who are in the teaching hospitals. They truly are treated
    as, and act like, medical


    gods.

    Quoted message said:


    Dr. C PhD

    Quoted message said:

    It's sad to see anyone die of cancer, but some of us have
    a dark empty


    holes

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    in their souls which came from medicine. My mam had
    freedom of choice (mainstream medicine), and they
    murdered her


    in

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    the name of palliation, they didn't have a clue.. I want
    a choice when I get cancer, not some monopolistic stifled
    organisation run by stupid MD thieves. Anth

  18. "Peter Moran" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Anth Snipped -

    Quoted message said:

    No you don't, Anth. You want *informed* choice. Are you
    being offered a cure, or just that you might live a little
    longer? If it is cure, and


    this

    Quoted message said:

    is what the testimonials are usually intended to convey,
    what is the


    actual

    Quoted message said:

    cure rate? What happened to the last ten or twenty
    patients who used


    this

    Quoted message said:

    method? How does any claimed cure rate compare with the
    other fifty or so alternative treatments on offer? What is
    the success rate with my particular kind of cancer, as
    compared with readily available data as to


    the

    Quoted message said:

    results with conventional treatments?

    Unless you can somethow extract that kind of information
    from the alt.med mess, you are not exerting any kind of
    informed choice at all. You are making a emotionally
    driven gamble on terribly scanty information and


    claims

    Quoted message said:

    that you cannot verify.

    Peter Moran.


    ................................... Gee Anth if you apply
    that criteria to conventional cancer treatment you will most
    likely run a mile before you let any of em touch you , their
    record is not exactly a huge success is it ? , ya gotta
    laugh at their blinkered vision . What he means by freedom
    of choice is limiting your freedom so you only have one
    choice , their way or their way .

    ....................................

  19. ..and you would take acupuncture for your pain and get zip
    out of it. Anth

    "Unfiltered Ilsa" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    As if I would take apricot kernals llsa, or essiac or
    whatever quack treatments out there. Anth

    You're more of "cleanse & purge" sort of chap. I'd imagine
    that you'd


    start

    Quoted message said:

    with the colonics, coffee enemas, and kombucha mushroom
    tea. Next, you'd graduate to a variety of electronic
    gizmos which may


    drastically

    Quoted message said:

    reduce your sperm count and motility.

    Eventually, you'll go to the conventional guys, but you
    shouldn't hold out


    too

    Quoted message said:

    long.

    Quoted message said:

    "Unfiltered Ilsa" <[email hidden]> wrote in
    message news:20040407183349.13686.00000937@mb-
    m10.aol.com.

  20. Her bowel was being stented to keep it open. Anth

    "Hawki63" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:20040408112038.12498.00000029@mb-
    m26.aol.com...

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    Subject: Re: Freedom of choice? From: "Anth"
    [email hidden] Date: 4/8/2004 6:12 AM Pacific
    Daylight Time Message-id:

    anth..

    Quoted message said:

    (Same here ruptured bowel due to stenting operation -
    killed her in 1-2 weeks)

    curious...what was being stented??

    not defending all medical mistakes...BUT was this a
    mistake..or a risk of


    the

    Quoted message said:

    procedure she needed ...or she would have died otherwise??

    sorry for your loss... hawki.....

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