Dealing with Wrong-Way Riders

Curtis L. Russell said:

Pedestrians OTOH are a different story. The first couple of
days in Britain evidently can be deadly, or at least
frightening, for U.S. pedestrians. Habit is habit...

Living in China a couple years cured me of any problem with
looking for traffic. I now always look both ways (plus often
over my shoulder) before stepping out onto ANY road,
regardless of the direction of traffic. If there were
traffic rules in China, they weren't obvious.

Mark Hickey Habanero Cycles habcycles.comhabcycles.comOpen ↗ Home of
the $695 ti frame

"AustinMN" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Q. wrote: <snip>

Quoted message said:

If they're only looking in one direction before pulling
out they're

stupid

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

too ... don't forget, joggers are supposed to be on the
"wrong" side of

the

Quoted message said:

road. Any driver should always look both ways, and all
around them all

the

Quoted message said:

time.

Do you look back over your left shoulder (behind you) when
turning left

into

Quoted message said:

a side street?

Yes, in fact I do. I use my mirrors as well. I live in a
place that's full of little kids playing, runners, power
walkers, dogs, cats, coyotes, deer, wrong way riders, and
the occasional hot rodder teeny bopper passing on the left
in a no passing zone. Heck, I've seen people stop dead in
the road and back up because they want to turn into the same
street I'm turning into, and they missed it the first time.

I don't consider situational awareness to be that difficult
... but then again I refuse to talk on the cell phone, or
eat, or read the paper while I drive, so I have time to look
around every once in a while. (c:

C.Q.C.

"Kevan Smith" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

And then you can twist words and argue over fine nuances
of meaning while innocent people get sent to the butcher.
Either way is not very good. The

best

Quoted message said:

thing is to take a personal vow to not harm another human
being. A few

million

Quoted message said:

here, a few million there, pretty soon there's a sea
change.

While I agree with you *in principle* ... what scares the
[censored] out of me, is that evil people are the ones who
traditionally come out ahead. It doesn't matter if it's
business, or the slaughter of millions of Native Americans,
the SOB's usually win. It's unfortunate, but if a few
million people decided to take your personal vow, then those
will be the innocent people sent to the butcher when the few
million people left who don't hold such lofty morals decide
they want to take over. It sucks, but hey.

C.Q.C.

On Thu, 8 Apr 2004 08:37:23 +1000, "DRS" <[email hidden]> from Ihug

Limited said:

Justification for a war and conduct of a war are two
different things. WWII wasn't a standard kind of power grab
between two equally greedy, amoral groups simply struggling
for their own advantage. Naziism was unambiguously evil and
there could be no honourable compromise or settlement with
it. Either democracy prevailed or Naziism did, there could
be no inbetween.

We're living in the in between.

The Hegelian dialectic proves true again!

--
[email hidden]
Go outside. Shut the door.
103

Claire Petersky said:

"Tom Keats" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Interestingly, I've never, ever seen a female WWR.

There was one in my neighborhood that you'll never see --
she was struck by a truck that was turning right as she was
riding in the crosswalk.

Well, I have one in my neighborhood. For some reason she is
always coming up the hill when I am trying to build speed
before my final climb on the leg home. If you speak to her
she gets a look of near panic, as if she is in the vicinity
of a nut. (OK, so sometimes she's right.)

Thought it was because I was an unknown male, but my wife
got the same look, riding alone. Our final guess is that she
may not speak English at all and is riding as she was
taught, wherever she is from. Never have heard a word from
her in four or five years, nor has any other rider in the
area I've talked to. Whether we yelled or talked, we all
evidently get the same near-panic look.

Curtis L. Russell Odenton, MD (USA) Just someone on
two wheels...

On Wed, 7 Apr 2004 09:12:25 -0500, "Kyralessa"

ryan_lundy@spamless_hotmail.com said:

"DRS" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Bestest Handsander <[email hidden]> wrote in message OM-dndJUvsL5Ru3dRVn-
[email hidden]

Quoted message said:

I second this approach. People are free to be idiots in
this country, and it has been my experience that idiots
get awfully upset when you question their idiocy.

Like when people point out how bad top-posting is? In any
event, people

are

Quoted message said:

not free to be idiots when their idiocy puts others
at risk.

Yes, just like that. Most people who top-post aren't aware
that it's considered a faux pas. You can catch more flies
with molasses...

or their use of USENET dates to the time when the top
posting crowd didn't exist.

Michael J. Klein

On Wed, 07 Apr 2004 22:08:46 -0700, Mark Hickey <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Curtis L. Russell said:

Pedestrians OTOH are a different story. The first couple
of days in Britain evidently can be deadly, or at least
frightening, for U.S. pedestrians. Habit is habit...

Living in China a couple years cured me of any problem with
looking for traffic. I now always look both ways (plus
often over my shoulder) before stepping out onto ANY road,
regardless of the direction of traffic. If there were
traffic rules in China, they weren't obvious.

The rule for motorists in China is: right hand on wheel,
left hand on horn. As far as I can tell, the crosswalks in
China are simply convenient places to run over multiple
pedestrians with a single pass. Its gotten a lot better in
Taiwan though - almost civil.

Michael J. Klein

On Sun, 4 Apr 2004 21:07:28 +0000 (UTC), [email hidden]

Quoted message said:

helmet, he hauls a large load in a backpack, and he
invariably rides on the wrong side of the road. (This being
in the USA, that's on the left.) Question One: What's the
best way to pass this bozo?

Play chicken. Hold your line. He'll have to go somewhere...

Quoted message said:

Question Two: What, if anything, would you say to him
about his illegal, inefficient, unsafe, stupid way of
riding?

There's nothing you can say that will help unless you can
engage him in a pleasant conversation and drift the topic to
safe riding practices...and even then you'll probably be
ineffective.

Twice today, I saw side-by-side wrong-way cyclists
taking the lane.

That is, wrong-way cyclist, in the middle of the wrong-
way lane, with another cyclist next to him sharing the
same lane.

The second pair had a beautiful Alaskan Malamute (sic)
running on the opposite side from them (proper side). The
cyclists were a child and either an older sibling or a
parent. As automotive traffic on this narrow road approached
from both directions, they converged into single-file wrong-
way shoulder riding...

Eek.

When I was a child, my parents had me riding the wrong way.
I don't know how I ever had the balls to do that...it's
scary, having an effective closing speed of 40 to 60 mph on
what should be a 25mph road, with no shoulder, and a big
truck barreling towards you.
--
Rick Onanian

Others said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

WWII was a righteous war. The Nazis were not just an
enemy, they were genuinely evil.

Many inhabitants of our fair planet who think about such
things feel the same way about George W. Bush.

DRS said:

For all his faults, which are many and egregious, even
Shrub has yet to declare any intention much less instituted
any actual policy to commit genocide. He is a bad man but
he's not even close to [censored] and nobody is served by such
loose and inappropriate comparisons. WWII was arguably
unique in history in that it was the closest war to being
morally black and white as there ever has been.

Now that Nazis have been discussed and compared to GWB,
isn't this thread supposed to die?
--
Rick Onanian

"Curtis L. Russell" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Well, I have [a WWR] in my neighborhood. For some reason
she is always coming up the hill when I am trying to build
speed before my final climb on the leg home. If you speak
to her she gets a look of near panic, as if she is in the
vicinity of a nut. (OK, so sometimes she's right.)

Thought it was because I was an unknown male, but my wife
got the same look, riding alone. Our final guess is that
she may not speak English at all and is riding as she was
taught, wherever she is from. Never have heard a word from
her in four or five years, nor has any other rider in the
area I've talked to. Whether we yelled or talked, we all
evidently get the same near-panic look.

Imagine the number of near-death experiences she's
surely had due to her habitual wrong-way riding. I'd be
skittish too.

"Curtis L. Russell" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Pedestrians OTOH are a different story. The first couple
of days in Britain evidently can be deadly, or at least
frightening, for U.S. pedestrians. Habit is habit...

'Cept for in London, where at many crosswalks is painted, as
appropriate, LOOK LEFT or LOOK RIGHT. When I was there for a
day those came in very handy, I couldn't rewire my brain
enough to get used to looking the wrong way (or was that the
right way?).

Michael J. Klein said:

As far as I can tell, the crosswalks in China are simply
convenient places to run over multiple pedestrians with a
single pass.

As long as everyone knows the rules and is sporting
about it...

Curtis L. Russell Odenton, MD (USA) Just someone on
two wheels...

Quoted message said:

This dope is a regular commuter.

Arrogant and disrespectful to call someone a dope. By
regular commuter, do you see him cycling daily?

Quoted message said:

but he doesn't wear a helmet

Not your issue. It is his insurance/injury issue.

Quoted message said:

he hauls a large load in a backpack

His business not yours. So what?

Quoted message said:

he invariably rides on the wrong side of the road.

Broad statement. Does he cycle for miles on the wrong side
of the road or just a small portion that permits easy access
to a bridge or shopping mall? Details about what this
cyclist does and for how long would assist in understanding
his conduct.

Quoted message said:

best way to pass this bozo

Bozo is again disrespectful. If you give/gave all the
particulars of where you were and where he was, we may be
able to make some suggestions. Anyone who is cycling or
driving a vehicle who does not clearly indicate their
intention requires other cyclists and vehicle operators to
slow down and proceed with caution until out of danger.

Quoted message said:

what would you say to him about his illegal, inefficient,
unsafe, stupid way of riding?

Given your use of language, I would say nothing because your
tone of voice would likely be less than polite and possible
offensive. You are entitled to your view that his riding was
illegal, inefficient, unsafe and stupid but it may be your
perspective and not fact.

Let me give you an example. I believe it is perfectly legal
for a cyclist to commute on almost any normal street where
vehicles are permitted. We all see these cyclists who
exercise their right to ride on the major streets all decked
out in the proper riding equipment, all holding up (slowing
down) buses and cars, all perfectly legal because as a well
trained cyclist in good standing with the finest of local
bike clubs, he is doing everything legal and by the book. No
tickets for this guy.

Then we have the guy who is cycling in hiking boots,
backpack, travelling on side streets whenever possible,
riding no hands most of the way. His route take him across
parking lots at an angle, on the occasional sidewalk, wrong
way down a one-way alley to get to the office.

Who do you think causes more traffic problems, danger, and
is more hated, the Fred or the legally riding cyclist?

If you are not sure, ask your colleagues at work. They
complain about these perfectly legally riding cyclists all
the time on the major routes, especially the truckers.

"Q." <LostVideos-AT-hotmail.com> wrote

Quoted message said:

If they're only looking in one direction before pulling
out they're stupid too ... don't forget, joggers are
supposed to be on the "wrong" side of

the

Quoted message said:

road. Any driver should always look both ways, and all
around them all

the

Quoted message said:

time.

I think people tend to: Take in about 50' to the right as
they approach the intersection (noone in that area, I don't
have to think about it anymore) Look left Glance right (is
there a ped or jogger? ok..assume they're moving at 3mph. no
problem) Look left hard to see if there is space to pull
out. Pull out.

In that last interval, they've not expecting anything moving
faster than a walking pace to enter their space from the
right A WWC violates this. I had a fast sidewalk 'blader do
this to me once. I looked right, saw him "way down there",
didn't realize his speed...looked left to get ready to pull
out. Way faster than I expected, the 'blader was at my right
front corner.

Pete

"occupant" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Let me give you an example. I believe it is perfectly
legal for a cyclist to commute on almost any normal street
where vehicles are permitted. We all see these cyclists
who exercise their right to ride on the major streets all
decked out in the proper riding equipment, all holding up
(slowing down) buses and cars, all perfectly legal because
as a well trained cyclist in good standing with the finest
of local bike clubs, he is doing everything legal and by
the book. No tickets for this guy.

Then we have the guy who is cycling in hiking boots,
backpack, travelling on side streets whenever possible,
riding no hands most of the way. His route take him across
parking lots at an angle, on the occasional sidewalk,
wrong way down a one-way alley to get to the office.

Who do you think causes more traffic problems, danger, and
is more hated, the Fred or the legally riding cyclist?

If you are not sure, ask your colleagues at work. They
complain about these perfectly legally riding cyclists all
the time on the major routes, especially the truckers.

Were you a cyclist yourself, you'd know that cycling on
roads does NOT hold up traffic. The only place where I hold
up cars is where it's not safe for them to pass me, and
there are very few of those places on the roads I ride. I
will say this as gently as I can (noting your aversion to
harsh language): Please go out and do some road riding on a
bike yourself, and then come back when you've learned a few
things from it. Until then your opinions will not count for
much here.

occupant said:

We all see these cyclists who exercise their right to
ride on the major streets all decked out in the proper
riding equipment, all holding up (slowing down) buses and
cars, all perfectly legal because as a well trained
cyclist in good standing with the finest of local bike
clubs, he is doing everything legal and by the book. No
tickets for this guy.

Then we have the guy who is cycling in hiking boots,
backpack, travelling on side streets whenever possible,
riding no hands most of the way. His route take him across
parking lots at an angle, on the occasional sidewalk,
wrong way down a one-way alley to get to the office.

Who do you think causes more traffic problems, danger,

You won't like the answer, but the guy riding legally is
NOT likely to cause the problems your hiking boot hero
will cause.

I don't object to hiking boots, or backpacks, or side
streets, or even occasionally riding no-hands. But the wrong
way riding, the parking lot riding and the sidewalk riding
are usually way more dangerous than proper road riding.

There can be exceptions, of course. But if you
visualize this chaotic style as being generally safer,
you're far wrong.

Quoted message said:

... and is more hated, the Fred or the legally riding
cyclist?

First, I ride according to the rules of the road, and I
don't get any indication that I'm hated for doing so.
Second, it's a rare thing for me to have to hold up traffic,
and if I do, it's only for a few seconds. But third, it
wouldn't matter to me. I know my riding style is the most
legal, safest, fastest and best. I'm not going to ride in a
way I know to be foolish just because someone else is
intolerant.

Quoted message said:

If you are not sure, ask your colleagues at work.

In my 32-year working life, I had only one colleague at work
who complained about cyclists. In the same rant, he
complained about Amish buggies and people walking on the
side of the road.

Yes, he definitely wanted everyone out of the way of his old
GTO. But he was being an ass, and everyone in earshot seemed
to recognize that. His rant certainly wouldn't change the
mind of anyone with any brain power.

--
-------------+ Frank Krygowski [To reply, omit what's
between "at" and "cc"]

Quoted message said:

occupant [email hidden]

wrote in part:

Quoted message said:

We all see these cyclists who exercise their right to ride
on the major streets all decked out in the proper riding
equipment, all holding up (slowing down) buses and cars,
all perfectly legal because as a well trained cyclist in
good standing with the finest of local bike clubs, he is
doing everything legal and by the book. No tickets for
this guy.

Then we have the guy who is cycling in hiking boots,
backpack, travelling on side streets whenever possible,
riding no hands most of the way. His route take him across
parking lots at an angle, on the occasional sidewalk, wrong
way down a one-way alley to get to the office.

Who do you think causes more traffic problems, danger, and
is more hated, the Fred or the legally riding cyclist?

This is a three part question, right? 1- Who causes more
traffic problems? Answer- The one riding both illegally and
unpredictably. 2- Which riding style is more dangerous to
both the rider and other traffic? Answer- See #1. 3- Which
rider is more hated? Answer- Who knows and who cares?

Quoted message said:

If you are not sure, ask your colleagues at work. They
complain about these perfectly legally riding cyclists all
the time on the major routes, especially the truckers.

Imagine that. People complaining about traffic. Wow.

Regards, Bob Hunt

(Hunrobe) said:

This is a three part question, right? 1- Who causes more
traffic problems? Answer- The one riding both illegally and
unpredictably. 2- Which riding style is more dangerous to
both the rider and other traffic? Answer- See #1. 3- Which
rider is more hated? Answer- Who knows and who cares?

It was the WWR that almost killed me today. Literally. A
whole new approach, and a threat I'd never, ever dealt with.

I took a shortcut through the ASU (Arizona State University)
campus this morning (a nice little section if you do it
before 8:00 when it becomes off limits to bikes). I turned
right on University (a major four lane undivided surface
road). I turned onto the nice wide bike lane just as a bus
was pulling out from a stop - the timing was perfect so I
just clicked off a few gears and jumped into the huge wake.
I knew the bus would be stopping in only a few hundred
yards/meters (another bus stop), so was more than ready when
it started to slow.

I checked over my shoulder for traffic (there was none),
waited for the bus to slow to about 15mph (25km/h) and
pulled out to pass on the left (like any other vehicle).

As I came around, what do I see but a college age kamikaze
riding a drop bar bike with a book bag COMING THE OTHER
WAY... that is, around the driver's side of the bus -
directly at me! I can only assume he was riding down the
bike lane the wrong way, saw the bus pulling in and pulled
around it the wrong way.

I had just enough time to jink to the right (there was only
a couple feet between me and the bus, but it was JUST
enough). It would have been a really, really ugly crash,
with two riders flying around next to a moving bus - I don't
think I'd want to see what would have happened.

Sometimes the Darwin award winners take others with
'em I guess.

Mark Hickey Habanero Cycles habcycles.comhabcycles.comOpen ↗ Home of
the $695 ti frame