P-R Odds

"chris" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

So, Hincapie was left stranded again at Flanders, and now
no 'Slava' for Roubaix. I say he's got no chance in hell.
I've heard George say Postal was his best option, but
someone has to be telling him they can't support him...

Ekimov out

US Postal Service's Viatcheslav Ekimov, third place in
last year's Paris-Roubaix, has been forced to forfeit his
place in this year's team. Ekimov injured his wrist in the
Dwars door Vlaanderen on March
24. He returned to race last week in De Panne, but
abandoned early. Once again back on the road at the
Tour of Flanders, the tough Russian found the going
too tough and decided to take a pass for the coming
classics.

I thought Max VH was supposed to be flying now. Haven't seen
much of him in the last two weeks.

I keep wondering what would happen if Riis could get his
hands on George.

Bob C.

it doesnt matter if he has support or not. remember when
boonan was towing him to the finish last year? he ended up
in a ditch on his back. boonen said screw this clown, im
going on to a podium finish. he cannot and will not ever win
P-R. he doesn't have the abilities necessary for such
victory. in his own words, "forgot to eat", yea, after your
fifth or sixth P-R you should have this figured out.....

"chris" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

So, Hincapie was left stranded again at Flanders, and now
no 'Slava' for Roubaix. I say he's got no chance in hell.
I've heard George say Postal was his best option, but
someone has to be telling him they can't support him...

Ekimov out

US Postal Service's Viatcheslav Ekimov, third place in
last year's Paris-Roubaix, has been forced to forfeit his
place in this year's team. Ekimov injured his wrist in the
Dwars door Vlaanderen on March
24. He returned to race last week in De Panne, but
abandoned early. Once again back on the road at the
Tour of Flanders, the tough Russian found the going
too tough and decided to take a pass for the coming
classics.

If he could turn timid Tyler into a champion who
knows...but George seems stuck with USPS. Too bad, he has
the physical talents.

CH

"psycholist" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

"chris" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

So, Hincapie was left stranded again at Flanders, and
now no 'Slava' for Roubaix. I say he's got no chance in
hell. I've heard George say Postal was his best option,
but someone has to be telling him they can't support
him...

Ekimov out

US Postal Service's Viatcheslav Ekimov, third place in
last year's Paris-Roubaix, has been forced to forfeit
his place in this year's team. Ekimov injured his wrist
in the Dwars door Vlaanderen on March
24. He returned to race last week in De Panne, but
abandoned early. Once again back on the road at the
Tour of Flanders, the tough Russian found the going
too tough and decided to take a pass for the coming
classics.

I thought Max VH was supposed to be flying now. Haven't
seen much of him in the last two weeks.

I keep wondering what would happen if Riis could get his
hands on George.

Bob C.

"JTN" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

it doesnt matter if he has support or not. remember when
boonan was towing him to the finish last year? he ended up
in a ditch on his back. boonen said screw this clown, im
going on to a podium finish. he cannot and will not ever
win P-R. he doesn't have the abilities necessary for such
victory. in his own words, "forgot to eat", yea, after
your fifth or sixth P-R you should have this figured
out.....

"chris" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

So, Hincapie was left stranded again at Flanders, and
now no 'Slava' for Roubaix. I say he's got no chance in
hell. I've heard George say Postal was his best option,
but someone has to be telling him they can't support
him...

Ekimov out

US Postal Service's Viatcheslav Ekimov, third place in
last year's Paris-Roubaix, has been forced to forfeit
his place in this year's team. Ekimov injured his wrist
in the Dwars door Vlaanderen on March
24. He returned to race last week in De Panne, but
abandoned early. Once again back on the road at the
Tour of Flanders, the tough Russian found the going
too tough and decided to take a pass for the coming
classics.

George is lifelong friends and connected with Lance. George
isn't going anywhere until Lance retires, and then there
might be a move, but until then... He's got Eki (well not
this weekend, but normally), Joachim, Max, and several
others. He's got the team support, he just hasn't lived up
to his potential, quite yet. He's still got time.

Tom

[email hidden] (chris) wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

If he could turn timid Tyler into a champion who
knows...but George seems stuck with USPS. Too bad, he has
the physical talents.

All is not lost. He has at least 5 more good years in him,
and postal doesn't.

chris said:

I've heard George say Postal was his best option, but
someone has to be telling him they can't support him...

Here is George's palmares page:
hincapie.combiography.cfmOpen ↗

He has a win in a midweek semi-classic. He has zero (that's
ZERO folks) podium finishes in big weekend races. Zero.
None. It has never happened.

If you were looking for a star to build a classics team
around, why would you pick George? The list of guys with
better records as classics riders is really long.

Don't get me wrong. I like George. But I cannot imagine
anyone giving him a better deal than USP. That would be a
crazy-ass thing to do. If he were Belgian he would be
expected to ride in support of one of the many Belgian
riders with better records in cobbled classics than he
has. If Boonen hadn't left USP George wouldn't even be
team leader.

So if George is saying that USP is his best option I would
take him at his word. He is very lucky that there are no
other options for an American team that wishes to be led in
the classics by an American rider.

If I were George and someone was telling me that there were
better options for me than USP I would check them for
bloodshot eyes.

Bob Schwartz [email hidden]

time? I just don't have that feeling. I think he has always
been a top 5-10 finisher, just no a champion. after seeing
the amateur mistakes in his PR he should have placed top 2,
I gave up hope.... not eating and not being able to keep the
wheel of your domo is not a mistake a leader makes.

"Tom Arsenault" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"JTN" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

it doesnt matter if he has support or not. remember when
boonan was

towing

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

him to the finish last year? he ended up in a ditch on
his back. boonen

said

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

screw this clown, im going on to a podium finish. he
cannot and will not ever win P-R. he doesn't have the
abilities necessary for such victory. in his own words,
"forgot to eat", yea, after your fifth or sixth P-R

you

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

should have this figured out.....

"chris" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

So, Hincapie was left stranded again at Flanders, and
now no 'Slava' for Roubaix. I say he's got no chance
in hell. I've heard George say Postal was his best
option, but someone has to be telling him they can't
support him...

Ekimov out

US Postal Service's Viatcheslav Ekimov, third place in
last year's Paris-Roubaix, has been forced to forfeit
his place in this year's team. Ekimov injured his
wrist in the Dwars door Vlaanderen on March
24. He returned to race last week in De Panne, but
abandoned early. Once again back on the road at
the Tour of Flanders, the tough Russian found the
going too tough and decided to take a pass for the
coming classics.

George is lifelong friends and connected with Lance.
George isn't going anywhere until Lance retires, and then
there might be a move, but until then... He's got Eki
(well not this weekend, but normally), Joachim, Max, and
several others. He's got the team support, he just hasn't
lived up to his potential, quite yet. He's still got time.

Tom

I wonder if Americans would start to pay more attention to
the major classics, rather than Le Tour, if Hincapie won
Paris-Roubaix.

-Sonarrat.

Bob Schwartz said:

If you were looking for a star to build a classics team
around, why would you pick George? The list of guys with
better records as classics riders is really long.

"He is the strongest rider in the peloton and could ride
Museeuw, Boonen, van Petegem, Bettini et al off his wheel
any time he chooses." --anon

We'll probably never know the answer to that. But if he, or
another American did, it's somewhat doubtful. Too much of a
cultural difference between the Tour and the Classics.

"Sonarrat" <[email hidden]..> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I wonder if Americans would start to pay more attention to
the major

classics,

Quoted message said:

rather than Le Tour, if Hincapie won Paris-Roubaix.

-Sonarrat.

"Roubaix" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Sonarrat" <[email hidden]..> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I wonder if Americans would start to pay more attention
to the major classics, rather than Le Tour, if Hincapie
won Paris-Roubaix.

Quoted message said:

We'll probably never know the answer to that. But if he,
or another American did, it's somewhat doubtful. Too much
of a cultural difference between the Tour and the
Classics.

Well, I think of the styles of races that we have in
America. Besides the criteriums, which are emblematic of
American cycling in the world view, we've got these things
which resemble the Criterium International, many of them
amateur/professional affairs... we've got small-scale stage
races in the style of the Tour de Suisse or Pais Vasco...

But then, we've got our own World Cup, too, namely the PCT
(Pro Cycling Tour), and the single biggest crowd ever
assembled for an American bike race was for its season
finisher last year, the T-Mobile International/SF Grand
Prix... which I believe qualifies as a kind of American
Classic. (BTW, it seems this race has been downgraded from
UCI 1.3 to 1.9.1. Why? Too popular?)

-Sonarrat.

Roubaix said:

We'll probably never know the answer to that. But if he,
or another American did, it's somewhat doubtful. Too much
of a cultural difference between the Tour and the
Classics.

Quoted message said:

"Sonarrat" <[email hidden]..> wrote in message

Quoted message said:

I wonder if Americans would start to pay more attention
to the major classics, rather than Le Tour, if Hincapie
won Paris-Roubaix.

Uh, Tyler Hamilton won Liege-Bastogne-Liege last year. Okay,
so it isn't as singular as P-R, but it is the oldest classic
and one of the five monuments (he was the first American to
win one). I didn't notice a huge upsurge of American
interest in the classics; even you guys seem to have
forgotten about it. Although OLN has started same day (not
live) coverage of several classics, not just Paris-Roubaix,
which is nice. Perhaps we have Tyler to thank for that.

"Sonarrat" <[email hidden]..> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Roubaix" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:miD-
[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Sonarrat" <[email hidden]..> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I wonder if Americans would start to pay more
attention to the major classics, rather than Le Tour,
if Hincapie won Paris-Roubaix.

Quoted message said:

We'll probably never know the answer to that. But if he,
or another American did, it's somewhat doubtful. Too
much of a cultural difference between the Tour and the
Classics.

Well, I think of the styles of races that we have in
America. Besides the criteriums, which are emblematic of
American cycling in the world view,

we've

Quoted message said:

got these things which resemble the Criterium
International, many of them amateur/professional
affairs... we've got small-scale stage races in the

style

Quoted message said:

of the Tour de Suisse or Pais Vasco...

But then, we've got our own World Cup, too, namely the PCT
(Pro Cycling

Tour),

Quoted message said:

and the single biggest crowd ever assembled for an
American bike race was

for

Quoted message said:

its season finisher last year, the T-Mobile
International/SF Grand Prix...

which

Quoted message said:

I believe qualifies as a kind of American Classic. (BTW,
it seems this

race has

Quoted message said:

been downgraded from UCI 1.3 to 1.9.1. Why? Too popular?)

-Sonarrat.

What cycling 'stars' does the American public know if you
went into a 'sports bar' and said their names? Hampsten
(Grand Tour winner), Hamilton (LBL winner)? Nothstein (Oly
Gold Medal winner)? Horner?

Probably none of the above.

Both Armstrong and LeMond became popularized partially
because they overcame tremendous adversity, i.e. lots o'
juicy up close and personal type stuff. The next closest
thing is Hamilton w/ his broken bones, and he's barely on
the radar, and not because of his LBL win either.

Your average Joe doesn't discern Paris-Roubaix from your
local road race.

The best way for Americans to pay more attention to the
classics, or any bike race for that matter, would be to have
the major sports network producers and announcers and print
media editors see a couple of _good_ US races to learn some
racing concepts, then fly them on an all expense (read:
unlimited beer) paid junket to Belgium for the two weeks
leading up to and including Paris-Roubaix.

For the media, you have real sports (pretty much anything
consistently covered on mainstream networks and major
newspapers, even if it is NASCAR) and you have freak shows.
As long as the powers-that-be in the sports media don't
understand bicycle racing, it will remain a freak show in
their minds.

"JTN" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

time? I just don't have that feeling. I think he has
always been a top 5-10 finisher, just no a champion.

I remember some butt-sucking moron saying the same thing
about Andre Tschmil.

"Carl Sundquist" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

What cycling 'stars' does the American public know if you
went into a 'sports bar' and said their names? Hampsten
(Grand Tour winner), Hamilton (LBL winner)? Nothstein (Oly
Gold Medal winner)? Horner?

Probably none of the above.

And why is that Carl? When was the last time that you went
into a sports bar, bought a beer and made them put on a
bike race? This is a new way to popularize bicycle racing -
try it some time. Damned if it didn't even work in France
during Le Tour - which most people here think is the
national French pastime and which most French are only
vaguely aware of.

Quoted message said:

Both Armstrong and LeMond became popularized partially
because they

overcame

Quoted message said:

tremendous adversity, i.e. lots o' juicy up close and
personal type stuff.

That's because the only people paying any attention were lard-
asses sitting in front of the TV and gulping beer and saying
"Gee whizz honey, that guy overcame a gunshot to the heart
to win that there Tour de France thing! Maybe there's hope
for my hardened arteries after all!" The actual exercise
part of it was what was so off-putting.

Sooner or later some idea starved network executive is going
to notice more and more cyclists are turning up on the roads
all over the USA. A glimmer of an idea may just break
through, that this represents a segment of the population to
which Sunday afternoon may be spent recovering from the
morning ride while watching Liege-Bastogne-Leige and
drinking upscale beer.

Quoted message said:

Your average Joe doesn't discern Paris-Roubaix from your
local road race.

And that's because the average Joe hasn't watched much of
it. Unfortunately it occurs on Easter Sunday this year or
else you all could go down to the local Sports Bar and make
them put it on the big screen and sit in front of it with a
burger, fries and a draft with a bunch of friends and shout
at the screen for the whole race. You'd be surprised how
many times it takes to break through the bone in the head of
your average Joe but once converted you're in for life.

In article <[email hidden]>, "Carl Sundquist"
<[email hidden]> wrote:

<snip>

Quoted message said:

The best way for Americans to pay more attention to the
classics, or any bike race for that matter, would be to
have the major sports network producers and announcers and
print media editors see a couple of _good_ US races to
learn some racing concepts, then fly them on an all
expense (read: unlimited beer) paid junket to Belgium for
the two weeks leading up to and including Paris-Roubaix.

For the media, you have real sports (pretty much anything
consistently covered on mainstream networks and major
newspapers, even if it is NASCAR) and you have freak
shows. As long as the powers-that-be in the sports media
don't understand bicycle racing, it will remain a freak
show in their minds.

I spent a lot of years working for various newspapers,
including one short stint as an assistant sports editor. The
sports editor was a major prep-sports booster and very
knowledgeable, played a mean game of tennis, knew next to
nothing about bicycle racing. Since I was a race fiend, I
started writing up some of the local and regional races,
shot a few pix, did an occasional cycling-related column,
and slipped AP and NYT wire-service copy about the Tour into
the rag whenever I could. The editor gradually got
interested, recognizing that these folks were athletes, not
just traffic impediments, and eventually became a real
cycling fan and gave racing a little ink from time to time.

Newspapers are no different than any other organization.
They're comfortable with routine, and rich in inertia; it
takes a fair amount of effort -- and some friends on the
inside -- to get one to change direction, even slightly.

You may find this interesting: I don't believe I've ever
worked for a paper whose sports section had a healthy ads-to-
news ratio. I have a copy of today's Colorado Springs
Gazette here in front of me, and in the 12-page Sports
section, I count five smallish ads: one house ad (for the
paper itself); one for a strip club; one for a massage
parlor; one for a car dealership; and one for a "golf and
games" outfit. Nine pages have no ads at all. Makes you
think. Or maybe not.

Cheers,

Patrick O'Grady Mad Dog Media maddogmedia.commaddogmedia.comOpen ↗

"Tom Kunich" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Carl Sundquist" <[email hidden]> wrote in
message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

What cycling 'stars' does the American public know if
you went into a 'sports bar' and said their names?
Hampsten (Grand Tour winner),

Hamilton

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

(LBL winner)? Nothstein (Oly Gold Medal winner)? Horner?

Probably none of the above.

And why is that Carl? When was the last time that you went
into a sports bar, bought a beer and made them put on a
bike race? This is a new way to popularize bicycle racing
- try it some time. Damned if it didn't even

work

Quoted message said:

in France during Le Tour - which most people here think is
the national French pastime and which most French are only
vaguely aware of.

Last time I checked, the TdF was going strong long before
somebody came up with the bright idea of putting a TV in a
bar. Probably well before any live radio broadcasts of the
race too. IIRC, the reason for the yellow jersey is because
Le Equipe was/is printed on yellow paper, likely the only
form of mass media covering the event for quite some time.

Bob Schwartz <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

chris said:

I've heard George say Postal was his best option, but
someone has to be telling him they can't support him...

Here is George's palmares page:
hincapie.combiography.cfmOpen ↗

He has a win in a midweek semi-classic. He has zero
(that's ZERO folks) podium finishes in big weekend races.
Zero. None. It has never happened.

If you were looking for a star to build a classics team
around, why would you pick George? The list of guys with
better records as classics riders is really long.

selections for RVV and PR, but he doesn't have the sprint
(like PVP or Bettini) to finish it off with any certainty.

He's up there enough that if things go his way he can win,
which is how he won G-W.

Moose is 39, Tafi is 38, Tchmil won his first World Cup race
in '94 at the age of 31. George is 30, if he sticks around
can have another 7-8 tries at the classics.

Carl Sundquist said:

Your average Joe doesn't discern Paris-Roubaix from your
local road race.

Last night my wife's 19-year-old cousin came over for dinner
and I mentioned that Paris-Roubaix was Sunday. He stopped
kicking my daughter's toy soccer ball long enough to give me
a quizzical look and say, "Paris What?" My wife explained
that it was a bicycle race between Paris and (ta da!)
Roubaix and he looked at me again and asked, "You're riding
this on Sunday?"