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Is There No End to the Supply of Idiot Mountain Bikers?

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01 / Original postIs There No End to the Supply of Idiot Mountain Bikers?Mike Vandeman · 21 Apr 2004 02 / This pagePosts 1–14Page 1 of 1 · chronological order 03 / Latest replyPost #14Mike Vandeman · 28 Apr 2004

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Mountain Bikes
Published
21 April 2004
Last activity
28 April 2004
Original author
Mike Vandeman
Posts
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  1. Original post
    Mike Vandeman
    Archived post
    #1
    At 06:27 PM 4/20/04 -0700 said:

    Ok,

    Quoted message said:

    You may not realize this, but the vast majority of mountain
    bikers are on your


    side.

    Not even CLOSE. Sentiment isn't enough. ACTIONS must match.
    Mountain biking is the most destructive activity allowed in
    any of our parks.

    Quoted message said:

    They care a great deal about the environment, and are
    actively working to


    protect it.

    Quoted message said:

    Have you ever actually thought what a MTB (not downhill)
    only trail would look


    like? Heres a hint. 8-12 inches wide.

    Impossible. Two bikes can't pass each other in that
    narrow space.

    Quoted message said:

    Adapting to the terrain, not making the terrain adapt to
    it. Natural features


    like rocks, trees, etc. left in place. No steps carved into
    the mountainside. Smooth.

    Yeah, with V-shaped ruts.

    Quoted message said:

    How many bike only trails are there in most cities? (hint
    rhymes with gyro)

    Of course.

    Quoted message said:

    Now, compare this to an equestrian or mixed use trail.

    Irrelevant, since I don't advocate those.

    Quoted message said:

    4-8 feet wide. Steps carved anytime the slope goes over
    20%. Rocks removed


    and terrain adapted for equestrians and strollers. Horse and
    dog [censored] everywhere. Trail either dusty or pitted all to
    hell. (take one look at any equestrian trail and tell me Im
    wrong). Bikes do not require 8 feet to pass a hiker. Only a
    horse does.

    Quoted message said:

    Which one of these has a greater effect on the environment?

    Mountain bikers, who ENORMOUSLY outnumber equestrians.

    Quoted message said:

    Is 18too close for a biker and a hiker to pass? Sure, but
    its also too close


    for two hikers to pass, especially if they are
    carrying packs.

    There are no backpackers where bikes are allowed.

    Quoted message said:

    If a hiker steps off the trail to let a bike pass, there is
    absolutely no


    difference from a hiker stepping off to let another hiker
    pass. The only reason bikers would ride off trail to pass
    is if they were forced to by rude or unaware hikers
    refusing to yield.

    You are crazy. Hikers don't have to "yield"; they have the
    right of way!

    Quoted message said:

    Also, have you ever tried to pass a horse on an 18trail?

    Quoted message said:

    As far as bikes belonging on the pavement; not unless
    youre suicidal.


    Mountain bikers may have a lot of injuries, but they have
    very few deaths.

    Not true. I have heard of several, and I'm not looking for
    them.

    Quoted message said:

    Compare that to how many people die every week riding on
    the road. Too many


    close calls are the exact reason I stopped riding on the
    road.

    Irrelevant, since they don't go to the same places. You
    can't mountain bike to the grocery store.

    Quoted message said:

    There are millions of mountain bikers out there. Doesnt it
    make more sense to


    fight urban sprawl, pollution, and horses than just randomly
    attacking each other?

    I don't attack anyone. I just tell the truth. That's what
    mountain bikers call an "attack"!

    Quoted message said:

    Ben

    ===
    I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits
    to humans ("pure habitat"😉. Want to help? (I spent the
    previous 8 years fighting auto dependence and road
    construction.)

    home.pacbell.netmjvande

    Report
  2. Splat Graphics
    Archived post
    #2
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    You may not realize this, but the vast majority of
    mountain bikers are on


    your

    Quoted message said:

    side.

    Not even CLOSE. Sentiment isn't enough. ACTIONS must
    match. Mountain


    biking is

    Quoted message said:

    the most destructive activity allowed in any of our parks.

    I think spark ball is. Far more destrective 🙂

    CS

    Report
  3. Jeff Strickland
    Archived post
    #3

    "Mike Vandeman" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    At 06:27 PM 4/20/04 -0700, "Ben Huffman"

    Quoted message said:

    Ok,

    Quoted message said:

    You may not realize this, but the vast majority of
    mountain bikers are on


    your

    Quoted message said:

    side.

    Not even CLOSE. Sentiment isn't enough. ACTIONS must
    match. Mountain


    biking is

    Quoted message said:

    the most destructive activity allowed in any of our parks.

    Lie.

    Report
  4. Ken in KC
    Archived post
    #4
    Quoted post said:

    Originally posted by Mike Vandeman

    Quoted message said:

    Have you ever actually thought what a MTB (not downhill)
    only trail would look


    like? Heres a hint. 8-12 inches wide.

    Impossible. Two bikes can't pass each other in that
    narrow space.

    Lie

    Report
  5. Mike Vandeman
    Archived post
    #5

    On Wed, 21 Apr 2004 21:00:06 GMT, Ken in KC <[email hidden]>
    wrote:

    .Mike Vandeman wrote:
    . > >Have you ever actually thought what a MTB (not
    downhill) only trail
    . > >would look
    . > like? Heres a hint. 8-12 inches wide.
    . > Impossible. Two bikes can't pass each other in that
    narrow space. . . . .Lie

    It's true. It's physically impossible for two bikers to pass
    each other on a 12 inch trail.
    ===
    I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits
    to humans ("pure habitat"😉. Want to help? (I spent the
    previous 8 years fighting auto dependence and road
    construction.)

    home.pacbell.netmjvande

    Report
  6. S O R N I
    Archived post
    #6
    Mike Vandeman said:

    It's true. It's physically impossible for two bikers to
    pass each other on a 12 inch trail.

    BWAHAHAHHAHHAHAHAHHA.

    (But rather than call you a LIAR, DUH!, I think it's just a
    case of utter blind stupidity.)

    Bill "do your research, do(r)c" S.

    Report
  7. Mike Vandeman
    Archived post
    #7

    On Sat, 24 Apr 2004 15:33:02 GMT, " S o r n i" <[email hidden]> wrote:

    .Mike Vandeman wrote: . .> It's true. It's physically
    impossible for two bikers to pass each .> other on a 12 inch
    trail. . .BWAHAHAHHAHHAHAHAHHA. . .(But rather than call you
    a LIAR, DUH!, I think it's just a case of utter .blind
    stupidity.)

    Then explain.

    .Bill "do your research, do(r)c" S. .

    ===
    I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits
    to humans ("pure habitat"😉. Want to help? (I spent the
    previous 8 years fighting auto dependence and road
    construction.)

    home.pacbell.netmjvande

    Report
  8. S O R N I
    Archived post
    #8
    Mike Vandeman said:

    On Sat, 24 Apr 2004 15:33:02 GMT, " S o r n i" <sorni@bite-
    me.san.rr.com> wrote:

    .Mike Vandeman wrote: . .> It's true. It's physically
    impossible for two bikers to pass each .> other on a 12
    inch trail. . .BWAHAHAHHAHHAHAHAHHA. . .(But rather than
    call you a LIAR, DUH!, I think it's just a case of utter
    .blind stupidity.)

    Then explain.

    .Bill "do your research, do(r)c" S.

    Well first of all, that's why I said do your research.

    However, I realize that's one of your weakest skills, so...
    🙂

    Experienced, responsible mountain bikers avoid riding off-
    trail at all costs. Therefore, when two riders approach
    each other on a narrow sliver of singletrack (our most
    cherished of terrains), one will invariably yield to the
    other by coming to a stop, putting the outside foot down,
    and leaning the bike to the right to allow the other rider
    to pass safely. (Usually the uphill cyclist yields to the
    lower one, as the latter is working harder and the former
    can restart easier.)

    I can understand why you can't grasp this concept: after
    all, hikers like to walk TWO AND THREE ABREAST -- thus
    widening trails until they're effectively jeep roads.

    Bill "don't expect you to admit I'm right" S.

    Report
  9. Mike Vandeman
    Archived post
    #9

    On Sun, 25 Apr 2004 06:11:45 GMT, " S o r n i" <[email hidden]> wrote:

    .Mike Vandeman wrote: .> On Sat, 24 Apr 2004 15:33:02 GMT, "
    S o r n i" .> <[email hidden]> wrote: .> .> .Mike
    Vandeman wrote: .> . .> .> It's true. It's physically
    impossible for two bikers to pass each .> .> other on a 12
    inch trail. .> . .> .BWAHAHAHHAHHAHAHAHHA. .> . .> .(But
    rather than call you a LIAR, DUH!, I think it's just a case
    of .> utter .blind stupidity.) .> .> Then explain. .> .>
    .Bill "do your research, do(r)c" S. . .Well first of all,
    that's why I said do your research. . .However, I realize
    that's one of your weakest skills, so... 🙂 . .Experienced,
    responsible mountain bikers avoid riding off-trail at all
    .costs. Therefore, when two riders approach each other on a
    narrow sliver of .singletrack (our most cherished of
    terrains), one will invariably yield to .the other by coming
    to a stop, putting the outside foot down, and leaning .the
    bike to the right to allow the other rider to pass safely.

    So, AS I SAID, you can't pass each other ON THE TRAIL
    without going off-trail. What a liar!

    (Usually the .uphill cyclist yields to the lower one, as
    the latter is working harder and .the former can restart
    easier.) . .I can understand why you can't grasp this
    concept: after all, hikers like .to walk TWO AND THREE
    ABREAST -- thus widening trails until they're .effectively
    jeep roads.

    I have never seen that, except on roads. On narrow trails,
    it makes no sense, since it's much easier to walk on the
    trail. DUH! Learn to tell the truth, for once.

    .Bill "don't expect you to admit I'm right" S. .

    ===
    I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits
    to humans ("pure habitat"😉. Want to help? (I spent the
    previous 8 years fighting auto dependence and road
    construction.)

    home.pacbell.netmjvande

    Report
  10. S O R N I
    Archived post
    #10
    Mike Vandeman said:

    On Sun, 25 Apr 2004 06:11:45 GMT, " S o r n i" <sorni@bite-
    me.san.rr.com> wrote:

    .Mike Vandeman wrote: .> On Sat, 24 Apr 2004 15:33:02 GMT,
    " S o r n i" .> <[email hidden]> wrote: .> .>
    .Mike Vandeman wrote: .> . .> .> It's true. It's
    physically impossible for two bikers to pass each .> .>
    other on a 12 inch trail. .> . .> .BWAHAHAHHAHHAHAHAHHA.
    .> . .> .(But rather than call you a LIAR, DUH!, I think
    it's just a case of .> utter .blind stupidity.) .> .> Then
    explain. .> .> .Bill "do your research, do(r)c" S. . .Well
    first of all, that's why I said do your research. .
    .However, I realize that's one of your weakest skills,
    so... 🙂 . .Experienced, responsible mountain bikers avoid
    riding off-trail at all .costs. Therefore, when two riders
    approach each other on a narrow sliver of .singletrack
    (our most cherished of terrains), one will invariably
    yield to .the other by coming to a stop, putting the
    outside foot down, and leaning .the bike to the right to
    allow the other rider to pass safely.

    So, AS I SAID, you can't pass each other ON THE TRAIL
    without going off-trail. What a liar!

    Where did I say anything about "going off-trail", liar
    (imbecile, jerk-face, incomprehendonesshood)?!? I
    specifically pointed out that we AVOID going off trail at
    all costs ("we" being experienced, responsible riders -- not
    the occasional doofus who doesn't know any better)...

    Quoted message said:


    (Usually the .uphill cyclist yields to the lower one, as
    the latter is working harder and .the former can restart
    easier.) . .I can understand why you can't grasp this
    concept: after all, hikers like .to walk TWO AND THREE
    ABREAST -- thus widening trails until they're
    .effectively jeep roads.

    I have never seen that, except on roads. On narrow trails,
    it makes no sense, since it's much easier to walk on the
    trail. DUH! Learn to tell the truth, for once.

    LIAR! I *know* you've seen hikers walking side-by-side on
    narrow trails, because IT'S OBVIOUS! DUH!!! (They do it in
    order to talk to each other; perhaps no one wants to listen
    to YOU?!?)

    Quoted message said:

    .Bill "don't expect you to admit I'm right" S.

    Bill "see, I knew it" S.

    Report
  11. Mike Vandeman
    Archived post
    #11

    On Sun, 25 Apr 2004 18:17:16 GMT, " S o r n i" <[email hidden]> wrote:

    .Mike Vandeman wrote: .> On Sun, 25 Apr 2004 06:11:45 GMT, "
    S o r n i" .> <[email hidden]> wrote: .> .> .Mike
    Vandeman wrote: .> .> On Sat, 24 Apr 2004 15:33:02 GMT, " S
    o r n i" .> .> <[email hidden]> wrote: .> .> .> .>
    .Mike Vandeman wrote: .> .> . .> .> .> It's true. It's
    physically impossible for two bikers to pass .> each .> .>
    other on a 12 inch trail. .> .> . .> .>
    .BWAHAHAHHAHHAHAHAHHA. .> .> . .> .> .(But rather than call
    you a LIAR, DUH!, I think it's just a case .> of .> utter
    .blind stupidity.) .> .> .> .> Then explain. .> .> .> .>
    .Bill "do your research, do(r)c" S. .> . .> .Well first of
    all, that's why I said do your research. .> . .> .However, I
    realize that's one of your weakest skills, so... 🙂 .> . .>
    .Experienced, responsible mountain bikers avoid riding off-
    trail at .> all .costs. Therefore, when two riders approach
    each other on a .> narrow sliver of .singletrack (our most
    cherished of terrains), one .> will invariably yield to .the
    other by coming to a stop, putting the .> outside foot down,
    and leaning .the bike to the right to allow the .> other
    rider to pass safely. .> .> So, AS I SAID, you can't pass
    each other ON THE TRAIL without going .> off-trail. What a
    liar! . .Where did I say anything about "going off-trail",

    "putting the outside foot down". You weren't HONEST enough
    to say "going off-trail". Mountain bikers never are.

    liar (imbecile, jerk-face, .incomprehendonesshood)?!? I
    specifically pointed out that we AVOID going .off trail at
    all costs ("we" being experienced, responsible riders --
    not .the occasional doofus who doesn't know any better)...
    .> .> (Usually the .> .uphill cyclist yields to the lower
    one, as the latter is working .> harder and .the former can
    restart easier.) .> . .> .I can understand why you can't
    grasp this concept: after all, .> hikers like .to walk TWO
    AND THREE ABREAST -- thus widening trails .> until they're
    .effectively jeep roads. .> .> I have never seen that,
    except on roads. On narrow trails, it makes .> no sense,
    since it's much easier to walk on the trail. DUH! Learn to
    .> tell the truth, for once. . .LIAR! I *know* you've seen
    hikers walking side-by-side on narrow trails, .because IT'S
    OBVIOUS! DUH!!! (They do it in order to talk to each other;
    .perhaps no one wants to listen to YOU?!?)

    BS. We walk single-file,and are able to talk just fine. DUH!

    .> .Bill "don't expect you to admit I'm right" S. . .Bill
    "see, I knew it" S. .

    ===
    I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits
    to humans ("pure habitat"😉. Want to help? (I spent the
    previous 8 years fighting auto dependence and road
    construction.)

    home.pacbell.netmjvande

    Report
  12. Nate
    Archived post
    #12

    Mike Vandeman <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

    Quoted message said:

    On Sun, 25 Apr 2004 18:17:16 GMT, " S o r n i" <sorni@bite-
    me.san.rr.com> wrote:

    .Mike Vandeman wrote: .> On Sun, 25 Apr 2004 06:11:45 GMT,
    " S o r n i" .> <[email hidden]> wrote: .> .>
    .Mike Vandeman wrote: .> .> On Sat, 24 Apr 2004 15:33:02
    GMT, " S o r n i" .> .> <[email hidden]> wrote:
    .> .> .> .> .Mike Vandeman wrote: .> .> . .> .> .> It's
    true. It's physically impossible for two bikers to pass .>
    each .> .> other on a 12 inch trail. .> .> . .> .>
    .BWAHAHAHHAHHAHAHAHHA. .> .> . .> .> .(But rather than
    call you a LIAR, DUH!, I think it's just a case .> of .>
    utter .blind stupidity.) .> .> .> .> Then explain. .> .>
    .> .> .Bill "do your research, do(r)c" S. .> . .> .Well
    first of all, that's why I said do your research. .> . .>
    .However, I realize that's one of your weakest skills,
    so... 🙂 .> . .> .Experienced, responsible mountain bikers
    avoid riding off-trail at .> all .costs. Therefore, when
    two riders approach each other on a .> narrow sliver of
    .singletrack (our most cherished of terrains), one .> will
    invariably yield to .the other by coming to a stop,
    putting the .> outside foot down, and leaning .the bike to
    the right to allow the .> other rider to pass safely. .>
    .> So, AS I SAID, you can't pass each other ON THE TRAIL
    without going .> off-trail. What a liar! . .Where did I
    say anything about "going off-trail",

    "putting the outside foot down". You weren't HONEST enough
    to say "going off-trail". Mountain bikers never are.

    liar (imbecile, jerk-face, .incomprehendonesshood)?!? I
    specifically pointed out that we AVOID going .off trail
    at all costs ("we" being experienced, responsible riders
    -- not .the occasional doofus who doesn't know any
    better)... .> .> (Usually the .> .uphill cyclist yields
    to the lower one, as the latter is working .> harder and
    .the former can restart easier.) .> . .> .I can
    understand why you can't grasp this concept: after all,
    .> hikers like .to walk TWO AND THREE ABREAST -- thus
    widening trails .> until they're .effectively jeep roads.
    .> .> I have never seen that, except on roads. On narrow
    trails, it makes .> no sense, since it's much easier to
    walk on the trail. DUH! Learn to .> tell the truth, for
    once. . .LIAR! I *know* you've seen hikers walking side-by-
    side on narrow trails, .because IT'S OBVIOUS! DUH!!!
    (They do it in order to talk to each other; .perhaps no
    one wants to listen to YOU?!?)

    BS. We walk single-file,and are able to talk just
    fine. DUH!


    You know, as Bill states, yes, as 2 bikes meet each other on
    the trail, the uphill rider stops, places one foot offtrail
    and allows the other rider to pass. So that's a total of 1
    foot placed offtrail. W

    When hikers meet on a 8 to 12 inch trail, you mean to tell
    me that they don't step off trail at all? Do they do a hiker
    hug-and-spin around each other and keep going?

    I got $ saying the advanced hikers take as many or (gasp)
    even more steps off trail than the advanced mountain
    biker creates.

    enjoy... nate

    Quoted message said:

    .> .Bill "don't expect you to admit I'm right" S. . .Bill
    "see, I knew it" S. .

    ===
    I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-
    limits to humans ("pure habitat"😉. Want to help? (I spent
    the previous 8 years fighting auto dependence and road
    construction.)

    home.pacbell.netmjvande

    Report
  13. Marty
    Archived post
    #13

    " S o r n i" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:
    Mike Vandeman said:

    On Sun, 25 Apr 2004 06:11:45 GMT, " S o r n i" <sorni@bite-
    me.san.rr.com> wrote:

    .Mike Vandeman wrote: .> On Sat, 24 Apr 2004 15:33:02
    GMT, " S o r n i" .> <[email hidden]> wrote:
    .> .> .Mike Vandeman wrote: .> . .> .> It's true. It's
    physically impossible for two bikers to pass each .> .>
    other on a 12 inch trail. .> . .> .BWAHAHAHHAHHAHAHAHHA.
    .> . .> .(But rather than call you a LIAR, DUH!, I think
    it's just a case of .> utter .blind stupidity.) .> .>
    Then explain. .> .> .Bill "do your research, do(r)c" S.
    . .Well first of all, that's why I said do your
    research. . .However, I realize that's one of your
    weakest skills, so... 🙂 . .Experienced, responsible
    mountain bikers avoid riding off-trail at all .costs.
    Therefore, when two riders approach each other on a
    narrow sliver of .singletrack (our most cherished of
    terrains), one will invariably yield to .the other by
    coming to a stop, putting the outside foot down, and
    leaning .the bike to the right to allow the other rider
    to pass safely.

    So, AS I SAID, you can't pass each other ON THE TRAIL
    without going off-trail. What a liar!

    Where did I say anything about "going off-trail", liar
    (imbecile,


    jerk-face,

    Quoted message said:

    incomprehendonesshood)?!? I specifically pointed out that
    we AVOID going off trail at all costs ("we" being
    experienced, responsible riders -- not the occasional
    doofus who doesn't know any better)...

    Quoted message said:


    (Usually the .uphill cyclist yields to the lower one,
    as the latter is working harder and .the former can
    restart easier.) . .I can understand why you can't
    grasp this concept: after all, hikers like .to walk TWO
    AND THREE ABREAST -- thus widening trails until they're
    .effectively jeep roads.

    I have never seen that, except on roads. On narrow
    trails, it makes no sense, since it's much easier
    to walk on the trail. DUH! Learn to tell the truth,
    for once.

    LIAR! I *know* you've seen hikers walking side-by-side on
    narrow trails, because IT'S OBVIOUS! DUH!!! (They do it in
    order to talk to each other; perhaps no one wants to
    listen to YOU?!?)

    Quoted message said:

    .Bill "don't expect you to admit I'm right" S.

    Bill "see, I knew it" S.

    Bill,

    You're killing me. Why do you bother?

    Marty

    Report
  14. Mike Vandeman
    Archived post
    #14

    On 27 Apr 2004 12:22:44 -0700, [email hidden] (Nate) wrote:

    .Mike Vandeman <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:<[email hidden]>... .> On
    Sun, 25 Apr 2004 18:17:16 GMT, " S o r n i" <sorni@bite-
    me.san.rr.com> wrote: .> .> .Mike Vandeman wrote: .> .> On
    Sun, 25 Apr 2004 06:11:45 GMT, " S o r n i" .> .> <sorni@bite-
    me.san.rr.com> wrote: .> .> .> .> .Mike Vandeman wrote: .>
    .> .> On Sat, 24 Apr 2004 15:33:02 GMT, " S o r n i" .> .>
    .> <[email hidden]> wrote: .> .> .> .> .> .> .Mike
    Vandeman wrote: .> .> .> . .> .> .> .> It's true. It's
    physically impossible for two bikers to pass .> .> each .>
    .> other on a 12 inch trail. .> .> .> . .> .> .>
    .BWAHAHAHHAHHAHAHAHHA. .> .> .> . .> .> .> .(But rather than
    call you a LIAR, DUH!, I think it's just a case .> .> of .>
    utter .blind stupidity.) .> .> .> .> .> .> Then explain. .>
    .> .> .> .> .> .Bill "do your research, do(r)c" S. .> .> .
    .> .> .Well first of all, that's why I said do your
    research. .> .> . .> .> .However, I realize that's one of
    your weakest skills, so... 🙂 .> .> . .> .> .Experienced,
    responsible mountain bikers avoid riding off-trail at .> .>
    all .costs. Therefore, when two riders approach each other
    on a .> .> narrow sliver of .singletrack (our most cherished
    of terrains), one .> .> will invariably yield to .the other
    by coming to a stop, putting the .> .> outside foot down,
    and leaning .the bike to the right to allow the .> .> other
    rider to pass safely. .> .> .> .> So, AS I SAID, you can't
    pass each other ON THE TRAIL without going .> .> off-trail.
    What a liar! .> . .> .Where did I say anything about "going
    off-trail", .> .> "putting the outside foot down". You
    weren't HONEST enough to say "going .> off-trail". Mountain
    bikers never are. .> .> liar (imbecile, jerk-face, .>
    .incomprehendonesshood)?!? I specifically pointed out that
    we AVOID going .> .off trail at all costs ("we" being
    experienced, responsible riders -- not .> .the occasional
    doofus who doesn't know any better)... .> .> .> .> (Usually
    the .> .> .uphill cyclist yields to the lower one, as the
    latter is working .> .> harder and .the former can restart
    easier.) .> .> . .> .> .I can understand why you can't grasp
    this concept: after all, .> .> hikers like .to walk TWO AND
    THREE ABREAST -- thus widening trails .> .> until they're
    .effectively jeep roads. .> .> .> .> I have never seen that,
    except on roads. On narrow trails, it makes .> .> no sense,
    since it's much easier to walk on the trail. DUH! Learn to
    .> .> tell the truth, for once. .> . .> .LIAR! I *know*
    you've seen hikers walking side-by-side on narrow trails, .>
    .because IT'S OBVIOUS! DUH!!! (They do it in order to talk
    to each other; .> .perhaps no one wants to listen to YOU?!?)
    .> .> BS. We walk single-file,and are able to talk just
    fine. DUH! .> .You know, as Bill states, yes, as 2 bikes
    meet each other on the .trail, the uphill rider stops,
    places one foot offtrail and allows .the other rider to
    pass. So that's a total of 1 foot placed offtrail.

    So all those trails widened by mountain bikers were an
    OPTICAL ILLUSION? Right.

    . W . .When hikers meet on a 8 to 12 inch trail, you mean to
    tell me that .they don't step off trail at all? Do they do
    a hiker hug-and-spin .around each other and keep going? .
    .I got $ saying the advanced hikers take as many or (gasp)
    even more .steps off trail than the advanced mountain
    biker creates. . .enjoy... .nate .> .> .Bill "don't expect
    you to admit I'm right" S. .> . .> .Bill "see, I knew it"
    S. .> . .> .> === .> I am working on creating wildlife
    habitat that is off-limits to .> humans ("pure habitat"😉.
    Want to help? (I spent the previous 8 .> years fighting
    auto dependence and road construction.) .> .>
    home.pacbell.netmjvande

    ===
    I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits
    to humans ("pure habitat"😉. Want to help? (I spent the
    previous 8 years fighting auto dependence and road
    construction.)

    home.pacbell.netmjvande

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