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Bad News for T-1 beta cell regeneration from Stem Cells

Started by J.C. Hartmann · · Last activity · 11 posts · 518 views

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General fitness, health and nutrition
Published
8 May 2004
Last activity
17 May 2004
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J.C. Hartmann
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  1. hhmi.orgmelton5.html

    Synopsis: Researchers have learned that adult stem cells are
    not effective in re-growing islet beta cells in Type-1
    diabetics. By marking beta cells, they have learned that new
    ones are regenerated from remaining betas. So, a T-1 would
    have to have some remaining betas for regeneration to occur.
    There may still be hope using embryonic stem cells.

    The research is based on mice.

    Jim

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  2. sigh......

    thanks for the update, Jim
    --
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    "J.C. Hartmann" <[email hidden]> wrote in message -"]news:[email hidden]-
    berlin.de...

    Quoted message said:

    hhmi.orgmelton5.html

    Synopsis: Researchers have learned that adult stem cells
    are not effective in re-growing islet beta cells in Type-
    1 diabetics. By marking beta cells, they have learned
    that new ones are regenerated from remaining betas. So, a
    T-1 would have to have some remaining betas for
    regeneration to occur. There may still be hope using
    embryonic stem cells.

    The research is based on mice.

    Jim

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  3. Jim, Arghhhhh and ##$&*#$(&*. Thanks for the news...wish it
    was better. Steph

    "J.C. Hartmann" <[email hidden]> wrote in message -"]news:[email hidden]-
    berlin.de...

    Quoted message said:

    hhmi.orgmelton5.html

    Synopsis: Researchers have learned that adult stem cells
    are not effective in re-growing islet beta cells in Type-
    1 diabetics. By marking beta cells, they have learned
    that new ones are regenerated from remaining betas. So, a
    T-1 would have to have some remaining betas for
    regeneration to occur. There may still be hope using
    embryonic stem cells.

    The research is based on mice.

    Jim

    --
    Join us in the Diabetic-Talk Chatroom on UnderNet /server
    irc.undernet.org --- /join #Diabetic-Talk More info: diabetic-diabetic-
    talk.org/

  4. J.C. Hartmann said:

    hhmi.orgmelton5.html

    Synopsis: Researchers have learned that adult stem cells
    are not effective in re-growing islet beta cells in Type-1
    diabetics.

    Upcoming online discussions at www.DiabetesStation.com. Open
    to all who are interested.
    ____________________________________

    ISLET CELL REGENERATION Thursday, May 6th from 9-10 PM U.S.
    East Coast Time Michael German, MD Clinical Chief, Diabetes
    Center University of California in San Francisco

    Dr. Michael German and his colleagues at UCSF are interested
    in the cascade of gene activation underlying the
    development of insulin-producing beta cells from less
    differentiated cells during embryogenesis, and in how
    these genes function in mature beta cells. They also
    study where these processes break down in diabetes, and
    how to translate their increasing knowledge of the beta
    cell into novel strategies for curing diabetes.

    While the short-term goal of Dr. German and his fellow
    researchers is the creation of beta cells to be used in
    transplantation (a discovery that would be exciting, but
    still require use of immunosuppressive drugs), the long-term
    goal is much greater. It is that of regeneration of new beta
    cells in the pancreas of people with Type 1 diabetes. Dr.
    German will talk about his research in islet regeneration
    and its potential for a cure online at
    www.DiabetesStation.com.

    To join the program, go to diabetesstation.comdiabetesstation.com
    Thursday, May 6th at 9 PM U.S. East Coast Time

    BACKGROUND READING:
    insulinfreetimes.orgregen.htm

    Frank

  5. JC,

    Not so fast.

    Susan Bonner-Weir from Joslin Diabetes Center was one of the
    speakers at the AACE meetings last week in Boston last week
    on this. Her husband, Gordon Weir, is the head of islet
    transplantation at Harvard Medical School and gave a
    separate presentation at the AACE meetings. (FYI, Gordon was
    my boss when I was at Joslin.)

    She is quoted in today's Wall Street Journal as follows:

    "Some scientists said they aren't convinced that embryos are
    the only route. "We still believe there may be other cells
    in the body that give rise to (the needed) beta cells," says
    Susan Bonner-Weir, also a Harvard researcher based at the
    Joslin Diabetes Center in Boston.
    Dr. Bonner-Weir and others who disagree with Dr. Melton's
    analysis say the new report confirms another important
    finding. The new report suggests insulin-making cells
    regenerate themselves in the body, although they do so
    in only small amounts. This means scientists also may be
    able to make islets in the lab from existing beta cells,
    suggesting another way to avoid the embryo controversy."

    Bear in mind that islet cell research has become mired in
    the political controversy over fetal stem cells. That is
    REALLY unfortunate.

    AACE polled its members on taking an active stance in favor
    of liberalizing the restrictions on fetal stem cell
    research. I haven't heard the results yet, but I would be
    extremely surprised if it didn't carry with a vast majority.

    Most Americans have the misunderstanding that aborted
    fetuses are the source for stem cells. In fact, the origins
    of the fetal stem cell lines are "unused" embryos from in-
    vitro fertilizations.

    Here are the pros & cons to fetal vs adult stem cells:

    Fetal

    Pro: Probably easier to grow and differentiate into islets.

    Possibly could grow large batches serving multiple
    patients for transplant.

    Con: Religious and Political problems in US

    Could be rejected as transplanted tissue or need
    long term immunosuppression.

    Adult Stem Cell

    Pro: If harvested from the person needing the transplant,
    there would be no rejection and no need for anti-
    rejection drugs.

    No political problems

    Con: Finding enough stem cells in adult, getting them to
    differentiate into islets is likely to be harder to do.

    IMHO, if we could have either method, I would prefer getting
    adult stem cells from the person who needs the transplant.
    They free of the need for anti-rejection drugs, but would
    still need protection from the autoimmunity that caused the
    type 1 diabetes to begin with.

    ALSO, most of the articles you read talk about treating only
    TYPE 1 with islets. Only 10% of DM patients are type 1, so
    there is a smaller constituency interested in seeing the
    technology advance.

    The truth of the matter is that TYPE 2 could also benefit
    from transplants. Type 2 patients all have a relative
    deficiency of insulin and premature demise of the islets.
    They too would benefit from this technology.

    My opinion: Push both fetal and adult stem research as much
    as possible, and ignore the squabbling between the two
    camps. Raise the awareness that type 2's (the other 90%)
    will benefit from this as well. You will need the political
    muscle they add.

    William C Biggs, MD

    "J.C. Hartmann" <[email hidden]> wrote in message -"]news:[email hidden]-
    berlin.de...

    Quoted message said:

    hhmi.orgmelton5.html

    Synopsis: Researchers have learned that adult stem cells
    are not effective in re-growing islet beta cells in Type-
    1 diabetics. By marking beta cells, they have learned
    that new ones are regenerated from remaining betas. So, a
    T-1 would have to have some remaining betas for
    regeneration to occur. There may still be hope using
    embryonic stem cells.

    The research is based on mice.

    Jim

    --
    Join us in the Diabetic-Talk Chatroom on UnderNet /server
    irc.undernet.org --- /join #Diabetic-Talk More info: diabetic-diabetic-
    talk.org/

  6. J.C. Hartmann wrote:

    [snip]

    Quoted message said:

    The research is based on mice.

    Therein lies the problem.

    --
    John38 : t2 since 11/03 : 6mg amaryl 1.5g metaformin :
    aspirin Hb1Ac@dx=11.9% now=7.4% : FBG@dx=14mmol/l now
    7mmol/l : no starch!

  7. On Thu, 6 May 2004 21:55:20 -0500, "William C Biggs MD"
    <[email hidden]> wrote: <snip>

    Quoted message said:

    My opinion: Push both fetal and adult stem research as much
    as possible, and ignore the squabbling between the two
    camps. Raise the awareness that type 2's (the other 90%)
    will benefit from this as well. You will need the political
    muscle they add.

    William C Biggs, MD

    Thanks for that explanation and comment Dr Biggs.

    I couldn't agree more; it's also worth remembering that
    there are many other conditions that may benefit from this
    field of research. In my own case, controlling my T2 will
    enable me to live long enough to concentrate on my CLL. I
    know that many posting here have seperate non-diabetes
    related afflictions.

    Cheers, Alan, T2 d&e, Australia. Remove weight and
    carbs to email.
    --
    Everything in Moderation - Except Laughter.

  8. William C Biggs MD <[email hidden]> wrote on
    Thu, 6 May 2004
    21:55:20 -0500:

    Quoted message said:

    JC,

    [ .... ]

    Quoted message said:

    Most Americans have the misunderstanding that aborted
    fetuses are the source for stem cells. In fact, the
    origins of the fetal stem cell lines are "unused" embryos
    from in-vitro fertilizations.

    Quoted message said:

    Here are the pros & cons to fetal vs adult stem cells:

    Quoted message said:

    Fetal

    Quoted message said:

    Con: Religious and Political problems in US

    I have to say, that as an atheist outside of the USA, I also
    have reservations about the use of parts of foetuses or
    embryos in medical treatment. I'm not saying I'm definitely
    against it, just that I have reservations - a queasy feeling
    that there's something morally questionable going on - that
    a boundary is in the process of being crossed, without the
    issues having been addressed.

    Funnily enough, I have fewer qualms about the use of aborted
    foetuses - accidents happen, and an aborted foetus is, in a
    way, the result of an accident. But creating lots of embryos
    specifically to produce cells for medical purposes?

    I doubt I'm the only person experiencing moral confusion
    over the issue.

    Quoted message said:

    Adult Stem Cell

    By the way, what exactly is a "stem cell"? How is it
    different from any other sort of cell?

    [ .... ]

    Quoted message said:

    William C Biggs, MD

    --
    Alan Mackenzie (Munich, Germany) Email: [email hidden]; to
    decode, wherever there is a repeated letter (like "aa"😉,
    remove half of them (leaving, say, "a"😉.

  9. William C Biggs MD said:

    JC,

    Not so fast.

    Susan Bonner-Weir from Joslin Diabetes Center was one of
    the speakers at the AACE meetings last week in Boston last
    week on this. Her husband, Gordon Weir, is the head of
    islet transplantation at Harvard Medical School and gave a
    separate presentation at the AACE meetings. (FYI, Gordon
    was my boss when I was at Joslin.)

    She is quoted in today's Wall Street Journal as follows:

    "Some scientists said they aren't convinced that embryos
    are the only route. "We still believe there may be other
    cells in the body that give rise to (the needed) beta
    cells," says Susan Bonner-Weir, also a Harvard researcher
    based at the Joslin Diabetes Center in Boston.
    Dr. Bonner-Weir and others who disagree with Dr. Melton's
    analysis say the new report confirms another important
    finding. The new report suggests insulin-making cells
    regenerate themselves in the body, although they do so
    in only small amounts. This means scientists also may
    be able to make islets in the lab from existing beta
    cells, suggesting another way to avoid the embryo
    controversy."

    Bear in mind that islet cell research has become mired in
    the political controversy over fetal stem cells. That is
    REALLY unfortunate.

    AACE polled its members on taking an active stance in
    favor of liberalizing the restrictions on fetal stem cell
    research. I haven't heard the results yet, but I would be
    extremely surprised if it didn't carry with a vast
    majority.

    Most Americans have the misunderstanding that aborted
    fetuses are the source for stem cells. In fact, the
    origins of the fetal stem cell lines are "unused" embryos
    from in-vitro fertilizations.

    Here are the pros & cons to fetal vs adult stem cells:

    Fetal

    Pro: Probably easier to grow and differentiate into
    islets.

    Possibly could grow large batches serving
    multiple patients for transplant.

    Con: Religious and Political problems in US

    Could be rejected as transplanted tissue or need
    long term immunosuppression.

    Adult Stem Cell

    Pro: If harvested from the person needing the transplant,
    there would be no rejection and no need for anti-
    rejection drugs.

    No political problems

    Con: Finding enough stem cells in adult, getting them to
    differentiate into islets is likely to be harder to do.

    IMHO, if we could have either method, I would prefer
    getting adult stem cells from the person who needs
    the transplant. They free of the need for anti-
    rejection drugs, but would still need protection from
    the autoimmunity that caused the type 1 diabetes to
    begin with.

    ALSO, most of the articles you read talk about treating
    only TYPE 1 with islets. Only 10% of DM patients are type
    1, so there is a smaller constituency interested in seeing
    the technology advance.

    The truth of the matter is that TYPE 2 could also benefit
    from transplants. Type 2 patients all have a relative
    deficiency of insulin and premature demise of the islets.
    They too would benefit from this technology.

    My opinion: Push both fetal and adult stem research as
    much as possible, and ignore the squabbling between the
    two camps. Raise the awareness that type 2's (the other
    90%) will benefit from this as well. You will need the
    political muscle they add.

    William C Biggs, MD


    Reddy,

    Thanks, as always, for the insightful views. One interesting
    thing I noticed about this particular news release was the
    widely differing approaches taken by the various media in
    reporting it. I originally saw the Howard Hughes release,
    followed by the WSJ, MSNBC, CNN, and the Chicago Tribune.
    Without the similar titles, it was almost as if each was
    reporting a different story. I haven't seen the Nature
    article yet. Does the ABMS recognize a sub-specialty in Spin
    Doctoring?

    Those of us who attempt to decipher materia medica often do
    not have the expertise to understand the spin. How often do
    we see a journal article on a new basal insulin, for
    example, conducted in a Scandinavian country, comparing its
    efficacy against NPH, in a study of n=22, p=0.80, and
    actually believe the conclusions? Even if we figure out who
    paid for the study, and that they "proved" exactly what they
    set out to prove, without knowledge of both the history and
    philosophy of the principal investigator and his academic
    institution's agenda, we may potentially be deceived.

    Recognizing the subtle differences between statisticians,
    politicians and detailmen is a start. Then again, it is an
    election year here in the US, so we should have our BS
    receptors fully stimulated. Unfortunately, while the readers
    here are probably some of the best informed diabetics on the
    planet, we are still for the most part laymen. It takes
    someone with your training, experience, and contacts to help
    us separate the wheat from the chaff.

    Thanks for pointing out the finer details.

    Jim
    --
    Join us in the Diabetic-Talk Chatroom on UnderNet
    /server irc.undernet.org --- /join #Diabetic-Talk More
    info: diabetic-talk.orgdiabetic-talk.org

  10. JC,

    "J.C. Hartmann" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:2g1m21F3l0nqU1@uni-
    berlin.de...

    Quoted message said:


    Thanks, as always, for the insightful views. One
    interesting thing I noticed about this particular news
    release was the widely differing approaches taken by the
    various media in reporting it. I originally saw the Howard
    Hughes release, followed by the WSJ, MSNBC, CNN, and the
    Chicago Tribune. Without the similar titles, it was almost
    as if each was reporting a different story. I haven't seen
    the Nature article yet. Does the ABMS recognize a sub-
    specialty in Spin Doctoring?

    I too, was amazed at the wide variation in reporting on this
    paper. Some portrayed it as a great disappointment for
    diabetics, others as a great advance.

    I had to re-read some of the articles to sure that they were
    discussing the same article.

    Cheers, William C Biggs, MD

  11. Frank Roy said:

    ISLET CELL REGENERATION Thursday, May 6th from 9-10 PM
    U.S. East Coast Time Michael German, MD Clinical Chief,
    Diabetes Center University of California in San Francisco

    A transcript of the programs discussion is available at the
    following: diabetesstation.comedit
    ed/05062004_german.htm

    Frank

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