RR: Heil Valley Ranch

Monique Y. Mudama said:

I finally got off my duff and went riding on a real live
trail today.

(snip)

Nice RR...and now I'm craving a salad!

Bill "Hidden meaning" S.

On 2004-05-09, S o r n i penned:

Quoted message said:

Monique Y. Mudama said:

I finally got off my duff and went riding on a real live
trail today.

(snip)

Nice RR...and now I'm craving a salad!

Bill "Hidden meaning" S.

I'm too dense to catch the hidden meaning =/ Care to
enlighten?

--
monique

Monique Y. Mudama said:

On 2004-05-09, S o r n i penned:

Quoted message said:

Monique Y. Mudama said:

I finally got off my duff and went riding on a real live
trail today.

(snip)

Nice RR...and now I'm craving a salad!

Bill "Hidden meaning" S.

I'm too dense to catch the hidden meaning =/ Care to
enlighten?

Hidden Valley Ranch = dressing, yes?

Bill "always a good sign when ya gots to 'splain 'em" S.

On 2004-05-09, S o r n i penned:

Quoted message said:

Monique Y. Mudama said:

On 2004-05-09, S o r n i penned:

Quoted message said:

Nice RR...and now I'm craving a salad!

Bill "Hidden meaning" S.

I'm too dense to catch the hidden meaning =/ Care to
enlighten?

Hidden Valley Ranch = dressing, yes?

Bill "always a good sign when ya gots to 'splain 'em" S.

Oh!

It all makes sense now ...

--
monique

"Monique Y. Mudama" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

On 2004-05-09, S o r n i penned:

Quoted message said:

Monique Y. Mudama said:

On 2004-05-09, S o r n i penned:
>
> Nice RR...and now I'm craving a salad!
>
> Bill "Hidden meaning" S.

I'm too dense to catch the hidden meaning =/ Care to
enlighten?

Hidden Valley Ranch = dressing, yes?

Bill "always a good sign when ya gots to 'splain 'em" S.

Oh!

It all makes sense now ...

As intelligent as one may be, sometimes something just does
not click. For me, it's wimmen.

"Monique Y. Mudama" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I finally got off my duff and went riding on a real live
trail today.

The three of us (friend, my hubby, and me) had a good
time. It's about three miles uphill, a loop of two and a
half miles, and then back down. We actually did the loop
twice, once in each direction. The loop up top
definitely seemed rockier than the last time I was there
-- I think any dirt is thanks to trail builders, not
nature, and it disappears pretty quickly. I had my
fastest downhill run ever, thanks to a relative dearth
of people and some ominous rumblings from the sky. Only
one really scary moment, suddenly finding my bike at a
45 degree angle to the trail, but I managed to get
things under control again.

The thing is, I'm starting to see why so many people have
a dim view of people on mountain bikes.

Before we got out of the parking lot, we saw two guys
purposely skidding for about ten feet before their car,
sending gravel spraying.

As I was wending my way up a steep rocky spot, a guy came
flying down from above. Now, granted, I should never have
been so absorbed in the ground beneath my wheels that I
didn't see him coming, but he didn't even slow down as he
shot past me, shouting something I couldn't make out. As I
caught up to my group, my friend informed me that the guy
had purposely gone off the path to skid several feet on
pristine ground ...

Still going uphill, we stopped for some equestrians coming
down. They seemed quite gratified and surprised. I told
them that I didn't know how well their horses liked
mountain bikes; one told me that, while this horse has no
such problem, she couldn't say the same about her other
one. Now, this just amazes me -- how stupid do you have to
be to fail to realize that, regardless of right of way,
you don't want to startle an extremely large animal in a
narrow space? Are bikers really just cruising past horses
without giving them some space?

While we were resting up top, Eric noted that, of the 20
or so mtn bikers we'd seen so far, five had done something
lame while we saw them. He said that we should make an
effort to educate them. I offered that it's hard to say
anything constructive when they're screaming past you at
20 mph. He suggested a stick through the spokes. Neither
our friend nor I were comfortable with that threat, which
I know he'd never carry out, anyway. Still, we need to
find a way. Not only are these people

Quoted message said:

mountain bikers are all about.

Sigh.

--
monique

Monique,

Nice RR. I have to deal with lots of horses on the trails
around here (Central MD) and I'm also amazed that people
don't give ground to 2000+ pounds of stupid. I ALWAYS do
and I've still had hooves flying past my face in a tight
single track when one kicked out for (what seemed to me)
no apparent reason.

The riders are always grateful for it.

When someone comes down a hill towards me at mach 2 I wait
until they are right next to me then yell right in their ear
hole "SLOW THE HELL DOWN!!". They usually wobble to a stop
and stutter something along the lines of an apology.

Marty "not much patience these days"

On 2004-05-09, Marty penned:

Quoted message said:

When someone comes down a hill towards me at mach 2 I wait
until they are right next to me then yell right in their
ear hole "SLOW THE HELL DOWN!!". They usually wobble to a
stop and stutter something along the lines of an apology.

Heh.

In this case, it was a "two wrongs" situation -- I
definitely should have been paying more attention.

I'll bear that tactic in mind for next time, though =)

--
monique

Monique Y. Mudama said:

I finally got off my duff and went riding on a real live
trail today.

The three of us (friend, my hubby, and me) had a good
time. It's about three miles uphill, a loop of two and a
half miles, and then back down. We actually did the loop
twice, once in each direction. The loop up top
definitely seemed rockier than the last time I was there
-- I think any dirt is thanks to trail builders, not
nature, and it disappears pretty quickly. I had my
fastest downhill run ever, thanks to a relative dearth
of people and some ominous rumblings from the sky. Only
one really scary moment, suddenly finding my bike at a
45 degree angle to the trail, but I managed to get
things under control again.

The thing is, I'm starting to see why so many people have
a dim view of people on mountain bikes.

Before we got out of the parking lot, we saw two guys
purposely skidding for about ten feet before their car,
sending gravel spraying.

As I was wending my way up a steep rocky spot, a guy came
flying down from above. Now, granted, I should never have
been so absorbed in the ground beneath my wheels that I
didn't see him coming, but he didn't even slow down as he
shot past me, shouting something I couldn't make out. As I
caught up to my group, my friend informed me that the guy
had purposely gone off the path to skid several feet on
pristine ground ...

Still going uphill, we stopped for some equestrians coming
down. They seemed quite gratified and surprised. I told
them that I didn't know how well their horses liked
mountain bikes; one told me that, while this horse has no
such problem, she couldn't say the same about her other
one. Now, this just amazes me -- how stupid do you have to
be to fail to realize that, regardless of right of way,
you don't want to startle an extremely large animal in a
narrow space? Are bikers really just cruising past horses
without giving them some space?

While we were resting up top, Eric noted that, of the 20
or so mtn bikers we'd seen so far, five had done something
lame while we saw them. He said that we should make an
effort to educate them. I offered that it's hard to say
anything constructive when they're screaming past you at
20 mph. He suggested a stick through the spokes. Neither
our friend nor I were comfortable with that threat, which
I know he'd never carry out, anyway. Still, we need to
find a way. Not only are these people

Quoted message said:

mountain bikers are all about.

Sigh.

I chalk a lot of it to Front Range riding, so many people
moving in from other areas of the country, very few trails
available, lots of rich college kids from out of state. I
had a friend in town this weekend from Boulder, the first
thing he said to me was "you can actually go when the light
turns green, not wait for 5 cars to run it". You probably
had the frat boys from CU. Heil, while a nice little trail,
it not very interesting to most mountain bikers, just too
short and dull. And if you choose to ride to the trail head,
you get to take your chances with the nuts on 36. Come on
out to the otherside sometime, much more civilized.

--
Craig Brossman, Durango Colorado (remove ".nospam" to reply)

On 2004-05-10, Craig Brossman penned:

Quoted message said:

I chalk a lot of it to Front Range riding, so many people
moving in from other areas of the country, very few trails
available, lots of rich college kids from out of state. I
had a friend in town this weekend from Boulder, the first
thing he said to me was "you can actually go when the
light turns green, not wait for 5 cars to run it". You
probably had the frat boys from CU. Heil, while a nice
little trail, it not very interesting to most mountain
bikers, just too short and dull. And if you choose to ride
to the trail head, you get to take your chances with the
nuts on 36. Come on out to the otherside sometime, much
more civilized.

It may be short and dull for most mountain bikers, but for
me it's about perfect. I've cleared everything on it, but
never all in the same run, and I definitely huff and puff my
way through the uphill and half of the loop. (Yes, I know,
many people will say "What's there to clear?"😉 We can always
add loops at the top for more of a workout, if desired.

Can you suggest trails of similar calibre that would be
less infested?

Anyway, I'd rather find a way to educate/castrate the
problem children than to ignore them and hope they'll go
away. Heil is a 10 minute drive from my house, so I'd be
really bummed if my riding privileges were revoked there
because others were being jackasses.

--
monique

Monique Y. Mudama said:

On 2004-05-10, Craig Brossman penned:

Quoted message said:

It may be short and dull for most mountain bikers, but for
me it's about perfect. I've cleared everything on it, but
never all in the same run, and I definitely huff and puff
my way through the uphill and half of the loop. (Yes, I
know, many people will say "What's there to clear?"😉 We
can always add loops at the top for more of a workout, if
desired.

Please don't take offense, there was none intended.

Quoted message said:

Can you suggest trails of similar calibre that would be
less infested?

I can't, perhaps Betasso, but that has closure days, and
probably a similar frat crowd. Miller Rock (St. Varain) is a
fairly easy trail, and a beautiful area. Just about 15 mile
further up the canyon past Jamestown.

Quoted message said:

Anyway, I'd rather find a way to educate/castrate the
problem children than to ignore them and hope they'll go
away. Heil is a 10 minute drive from my house, so I'd be
really bummed if my riding privileges were revoked there
because others were being jackasses.

That is a fair attitude, and you are correct, eventually, a
few will ruin it for many. Unfortunately when that happens,
the frat boys will be back in California or Texas or where
ever they came from.

--
Craig Brossman, Durango Colorado (remove ".nospam" to reply)

Monique Y. Mudama said:

On 2004-05-09, Marty penned:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

When someone comes down a hill towards me at mach 2 I
wait until they are right next to me then yell right in
their ear hole "SLOW THE HELL DOWN!!". They usually
wobble to a stop and stutter something along the lines
of an apology.

Quoted message said:

Heh. In this case, it was a "two wrongs" situation -- I
definitely should have been paying more attention.

Paying attention is good, but uphill riders have the right
of way over downhill riders, always. Not negotiable, no
excuse for his behavior.

On 2004-05-10, Craig Brossman penned:

Quoted message said:

Monique Y. Mudama said:

On 2004-05-10, Craig Brossman penned:

Quoted message said:

It may be short and dull for most mountain bikers, but
for me it's about perfect. I've cleared everything on it,
but never all in the same run, and I definitely huff and
puff my way through the uphill and half of the loop.
(Yes, I know, many people will say "What's there to
clear?"😉 We can always add loops at the top for more of a
workout, if desired.

Please don't take offense, there was none intended.

None taken. I'm just saying that the more interesting rides
may be out of my reach for a while.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Can you suggest trails of similar calibre that would be
less infested?

I can't, perhaps Betasso, but that has closure days, and
probably a similar frat crowd. Miller Rock (St. Varain) is
a fairly easy trail, and a beautiful area. Just about 15
mile further up the canyon past Jamestown.

I did Betasso several times last year; it's not bad.
I've also done Rabbit mountain. I think I like Rabbit
and Heil better than Betasso, which works out well,
given the closures.

I've never heard of Miller Rock. I'll have to check it out.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Anyway, I'd rather find a way to educate/castrate the
problem children than to ignore them and hope they'll go
away. Heil is a 10 minute drive from my house, so I'd be
really bummed if my riding privileges were revoked there
because others were being jackasses.

That is a fair attitude, and you are correct, eventually,
a few will ruin it for many. Unfortunately when that
happens, the frat boys will be back in California or Texas
or where ever they came from.

This is going to sound rather weird coming from me, but I
have to say
it. My husband's a frat boy, or at least, he was in college
... and while I myself have used "frat boy" in just the
context you're using right now, I've realized since
then that some frat boys aren't so bad. Mine in
particular has always been careful about trail damage,
and when I started riding he made damn sure (still
does, actually) that I didn't do anything to mess up
the trails or to antagonize fellow trail users.

Anyway, when I see "frat boy" used in a derogatory way and
don't speak up about it, I feel like I'm complicit, so now
I've said my piece and I'm all done.

--
monique

On 2004-05-11, Benjamin Weiner penned:

Quoted message said:

Monique Y. Mudama said:

On 2004-05-09, Marty penned:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

When someone comes down a hill towards me at mach 2 I
wait until they are right next to me then yell right in
their ear hole "SLOW THE HELL DOWN!!". They usually
wobble to a stop and stutter something along the lines
of an apology.

Quoted message said:

Heh. In this case, it was a "two wrongs" situation -- I
definitely should have been paying more attention.

Paying attention is good, but uphill riders have the right
of way over downhill riders, always. Not negotiable, no
excuse for his behavior.

But there's no sign to tell you that -- unlike the prominent
signs everywhere to indicate that mountain bikers must give
way to others, even if I'm puffing my way up a steep grade
with enough loose stuff that I'll never get started again if
I stop, and the person coming down the hill is on a horse
who's doing all the work for them.

--
monique

Monique Y. Mudama said:

On 2004-05-11, Benjamin Weiner penned:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Paying attention is good, but uphill riders have the
right of way over downhill riders, always. Not
negotiable, no excuse for his behavior.

Quoted message said:

But there's no sign to tell you that --

There's never (well, hardly ever) a sign for it. It's
basic trail etiquette. That doesn't mean everyone knows
it, but they should. There's also, for example, no sign
that tells people to stop and ask somebody fixing a flat
in the middle of nowhere if they need anything. It's just
something to learn to do while getting into the sport (and
basic common sense).

Quoted message said:

unlike the prominent signs everywhere to indicate that
mountain bikers must give way to others, even if I'm
puffing my way up a steep grade with enough loose stuff
that I'll never get started again if I stop, and the
person coming down the hill is on a horse who's doing all
the work for them.

Price we pay for trail access (in part because of idiots
like the guy who blew by you). One can always yield the
right of way, and courteous people often will, whether it's
biker/hiker, up/down, etc. Of course not everyone on a trail
bothers to be courteous.

On 2004-05-12, Benjamin Weiner penned:

Quoted message said:

Monique Y. Mudama said:

On 2004-05-11, Benjamin Weiner penned:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Paying attention is good, but uphill riders have the
right of way over downhill riders, always. Not
negotiable, no excuse for his behavior.

Quoted message said:

But there's no sign to tell you that --

There's never (well, hardly ever) a sign for it. It's
basic trail etiquette. That doesn't mean everyone knows
it, but they should. There's also, for example, no sign
that tells people to stop and ask somebody fixing a flat
in the middle of nowhere if they need anything. It's just
something to learn to do while getting into the sport (and
basic common sense).

I guess I'm just looking for some way to explain people
being jerks, other than "people are jerks." I'd hate to
think that people would realize they're being rude and/or
destructive and yet continue with their behavior ...

On the practical side of things, you can educate the
ignorant, but what do you do about those who know better and
just don't care?

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

unlike the prominent signs everywhere to indicate that
mountain bikers must give way to others, even if I'm
puffing my way up a steep grade with enough loose stuff
that I'll never get started again if I stop, and the
person coming down the hill is on a horse who's doing all
the work for them.

Price we pay for trail access (in part because of idiots
like the guy who blew by you). One can always yield the
right of way, and courteous people often will, whether
it's biker/hiker, up/down, etc. Of course not everyone on
a trail bothers to be courteous.

I usually yield, just because it's better to have two
people stop on a narrow track than to have neither do so.
And, while I can't make up for the extreme screwups of so
many jerks, maybe at least when someone is thinking about
whether they want mountain bikes on the trails they use or
not, they'll remember me smiling politely and think, well,
sure, there are some bad apples, but there are some nice
folks, too.

--
monique