OT Fuel protests

Simon Mason said:

"Pyromancer" <[email hidden]> wrote
in message

Quoted message said:

Arrghh - yes, that drives me up the wall! Whenever I know
I'll be stopped for more than a minute or so I switch the
engine off (and if the jam is on a slope, leave it off
and roll slowly down using the footbrake), but everyone
else just seems to sit there, idling away, engines
turning over at 900-ish RPM, burning fuel to no purpose
and pumping out huge quantities of exhaust.

I do the same, but you have to be careful with modern
brakes that are servo assisted since once the engine is
off, you need a lot more foot pressure to keep the car
still. Also, if you leave your ignition on you will dazzle
rear traffic with the high intensity brake lights.

In The Netherlands there is a sign before bridges and
railway lines that says "bridge up?, motor off!". It
might even be an offence there to idle your engine to
excess IIRC.

I think it is in the UK as well:

From the CCN:

Legislation introduced on 2nd February 1998 made it an
offence to cause unnecessary emissions by leaving a
vehicle's engine running unnecessarily whilst stationary.
This extended an existing offence of causing unnecessary
noise by the same means. Enforcement is predominantly by the
police and the offence carries a maximum fine on conviction
of £1,000. In addition, regulations in December 1997 enabled
seven local authorities – Birmingham, Bristol, Canterbury,
Glasgow, Middlesbrough, Swansea and Westminster – to issue
fixed penalty notices in relation to any vehicle with an
engine running unnecessarily whilst stationary. The fixed
penalty is £20. It is proposed that these powers by extended
more widely in England and Wales.

Apparently Scotland's ahead of the game:

edinburghnews.scotsman.comindex.cfmOpen ↗

Never heard of anyone getting done, though.

gavin said:

We may hate trucks and wish more goods were sent by rail.
However, they are a vital element of our society. I
believe that the fuel should be cheaper for trucks and
more expensive for cars. The majority of Europe agrees
with this and discounts diesel relative to petrol. However
in sad little Britain, we have it the other way round.

Drive lorries much?

Simonb said:

Colin Blackburn said:

This applies to other users of red diesel.

I seem to remember that the yachting fraternity still
benefits from red diesel. It's used by trawlers and the
like and the yachties buy it from the same pontoons.

We have our own pontoons round here.

Sometimes you get asked to fill in a form when you fill up;
to track that the marina is really selling it for marine
use, I assume.

I remember that there used to be a lot of C&E men dipping
tanks at just about any rural gathering in the past.
Caused a bit of a stir. Haven't seen that happen for a
while, though.

"Pyromancer" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Upon the miasma of midnight, a darkling spirit identified
as Sam Salt
<[email hidden]> breathed:

Quoted message said:

Ran a Half Marathon in Leeds this morning.Of course the
majority of the roads were closed/blocked off.With a few
exceptions cars were stood with their engines running in
the resulting long queues.Petrol too expensive ? Not too
expensive to waste evidently.

Arrghh - yes, that drives me up the wall! Whenever I know
I'll be stopped for more than a minute or so I switch the
engine off (and if the jam is on a slope, leave it off and
roll slowly down using the footbrake), but everyone else
just seems to sit there, idling away, engines turning over
at 900-ish RPM, burning fuel to no purpose and pumping out
huge quantities of exhaust.

Then again when the engine is running I'm aware of pistons
going up and down, valves opening and closing, and fuel
flowing in and burning - I get the impression many people
think of turning on a car as the same as turning on a
radio, and just leave it on till they've finished with it.
:-(

--
- Pyromancer.
- inkubus-sukkubus.co.ukinkubus-sukkubus.co.ukOpen ↗ <-- Pagan Gothic
Rock!
- littlematchgirl.co.uklittlematchgirl.co.ukOpen ↗ <-- Electronic Metal!
- revival.stormshadow.comrevival.stormshadow.comOpen ↗ <-- The Gothic
Revival.

We'll know when fuel is too expensive. As well as switching
off the engine when waiting, you'll see:

Mothers sharing the school run when they live as far as 100m
apart from each other... Supermarkets not shipping Scottish
mineral water to Devon, and Welsh water to East Anglia An
average of more than 1.0000001 person per car in the rush-
hours People in their gas-guzzling FYFWDs (you work it out)
choosing to down-grade to a vehicle which consumes a litre
in more than 4 miles People driving at economical speeds
(i.e. well, less than 90mph anyway.)

Judging from all the mumies running their dears to the local
schools today, I conclude that we're not there yet, so
Prudent Gordon can afford to lob a few more pence per litre.
Roll on the blockades!

Peter.

"Pyromancer" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Upon the miasma of midnight, a darkling spirit identified
as Sam Salt
<[email hidden]> breathed:

Quoted message said:

Ran a Half Marathon in Leeds this morning.Of course the
majority of the roads were closed/blocked off.With a few
exceptions cars were stood with their engines running in
the resulting long queues.Petrol too expensive ? Not too
expensive to waste evidently.

Arrghh - yes, that drives me up the wall! Whenever I know
I'll be stopped for more than a minute or so I switch the
engine off (and if the jam is on a slope, leave it off and
roll slowly down using the footbrake), but everyone else
just seems to sit there, idling away, engines turning over
at 900-ish RPM, burning fuel to no purpose and pumping out
huge quantities of exhaust.

Then again when the engine is running I'm aware of pistons
going up and down, valves opening and closing, and fuel
flowing in and burning - I get the impression many people
think of turning on a car as the same as turning on a
radio, and just leave it on till they've finished with it.
:-(

--
- Pyromancer.
- inkubus-sukkubus.co.ukinkubus-sukkubus.co.ukOpen ↗ <-- Pagan Gothic
Rock!
- littlematchgirl.co.uklittlematchgirl.co.ukOpen ↗ <-- Electronic Metal!
- revival.stormshadow.comrevival.stormshadow.comOpen ↗ <-- The Gothic
Revival.

We'll know when fuel is too expensive. As well as switching
off the engine when waiting, you'll see:

Mothers sharing the school run when they live as far as 100m
apart from each other... Supermarkets not shipping Scottish
mineral water to Devon, and Welsh water to East Anglia An
average of more than 1.0000001 person per car in the rush-
hours People in their gas-guzzling FYFWDs (you work it out)
choosing to down-grade to a vehicle which consumes a litre
in more than 4 miles People driving at economical speeds
(i.e. well, less than 90mph anyway.)

Judging from all the mumies running their dears to the local
schools today, I conclude that we're not there yet, so
Prudent Gordon can afford to lob a few more pence per litre.
Roll on the blockades!

Peter.

al_Mossah said:

Roll on the blockades!

Hear, hear! The last 'blockade' was the only time we've ever
sat in our garden during the daytime without hearing the
noise of traffic from the A335, apart from Southampton's FA
cup final last(?) year.

Simonb said:

Hear, hear! The last 'blockade' was the only time we've
ever sat in our garden during the daytime without hearing
the noise of traffic from the A335, apart from
Southampton's FA cup final last(?) year.

I need time still to get my fitness up to being able to do
the 30 mile round trip involving a big valley with steep
sides 5 days a week.

I seem to have gone slower today - maybe a side effect of
carrying an ex bathroom suite to the local tip on Sunday.
The thought of putting wheels on the bath and towing it
behind a trike did cross my mind, but in the end it was
quicker to carry it between us.

- Richard

gavin said:

Truck drivers are not the middle classes. The trucks they
drive, which are becoming increasingly expensive to
operate, are the arteries of the economy. The costs of the
additional truck drivers required by the Working Time
Directive and increased fuel costs are simply passed on to
us all - whether you buy your potatoes at Lidl or
Sainsbury.

Among the other fruits in the supermarket near my office are
apples from the USA and pears from New Zealand. Perhaps the
additional transport costs could be reduced by sourcing
these items somewhere /closer/?

-dan

--
"please make sure that the person is your friend before
you confirm"

"Pyromancer" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Arrghh - yes, that drives me up the wall! Whenever I know
I'll be stopped for more than a minute or so I switch the
engine off (and if the jam is on a slope, leave it off and
roll slowly down using the footbrake), but everyone else
just seems to sit there, idling away, engines turning over
at 900-ish RPM, burning fuel to no purpose and pumping out
huge quantities of exhaust.

Air conditioning (esp. yesterday)? Rolling on the footbrake
is fine but with power assisted brakes and steering its not
always a good idea to use them without.

Tony

"Simonb" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Drive lorries much?

In previous jobs I have managed transport but not
driven them.

Gavin

Richard Corfield said:

Simonb said:

Hear, hear! The last 'blockade' was the only time we've
ever sat in our garden during the daytime without hearing
the noise of traffic from the A335, apart from
Southampton's FA cup final last(?) year.

I need time still to get my fitness up to being able to do
the 30 mile round trip involving a big valley with steep
sides 5 days a week.

I seem to have gone slower today - maybe a side effect of
carrying an ex bathroom suite to the local tip on Sunday.
The thought of putting wheels on the bath and towing it
behind a trike did cross my mind, but in the end it was
quicker to carry it between us.

- Richard

Does not compute.

[email hidden] (MartinM) wrote in message I'm an NHS
worker and was not

Quoted message said:

allowed to buy it last time; good thing I commute by
train ;-)

I should add that in 2000 I was not allowed to take my bike
on the train to make room for the displaced car drivers
(which never actually materialised, confronted by no
guzzoline they presumably stayed at home, or cycled ;-)

"Daniel Barlow" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Among the other fruits in the supermarket near my office
are apples from the USA and pears from New Zealand.
Perhaps the additional transport costs could be reduced by
sourcing these items somewhere /closer/?

We could go back to the days I still remember where you
could only get apples and pears in season. International
shipping means we can now enjoy them and lots of other foods
year round.

Tony

in message <[email hidden]>, gavin

(') said:

Truck drivers are not the middle classes. The trucks they
drive, which are becoming increasingly expensive to
operate, are the arteries of the economy. The costs of the
additional truck drivers required by the Working Time
Directive and increased fuel costs are simply passed on to
us all - whether you buy your potatoes at Lidl or
Sainsbury.

But not if you get them from your local farm.

--
[email hidden] (Simon Brooke)
jasmine.org.uk~simonOpen ↗

Morning had broken, and we had run out of gas for
the welding torch.

you know? said:

Michael MacClancy said:

This is a major contrast with Germany, where people
routinely turn off their engines when waiting. At level
crossings there are often signs instructing you to turn
off your engine.

Ditto Sweden, IIRC.

There's some in Crawley too. "Reduce Pollution" it says, and
a cartoon car belching fumes. I keep meaning to complete the
slogan with a well placed "get on yer bike"

Tim

In article <[email hidden]>,

gavin said:

"Nick Kew" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:m4nkn1-
[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Only when the middle classes start to think about what
they're doing (as opposed to moan about what everyone else
is doing) will we cease to be marginalised.

Quoted message said:

Truck drivers are not the middle classes. The trucks they
drive, which are becoming increasingly expensive to
operate, are the arteries of the economy.

Indeed.

Follow the link in my .sig. It's actually a page about what
the 'net can do for us. OK, I'll quote from it here:

"My dream of the Internet is of a society liberated from the
constraints of geography. The regular centralised office job
of the 19th and 20th centuries should pass into history as
the job moves primarily to the home, or to small local
centres equipped with IT infrastructure. Our overburdened
transport systems will be freed up for those who really need
them - like manual workers and freight transport - and
leisure use."

Yep. Freight transport is an entirely legitimate use of
the roads.

Quoted message said:

The costs of the additional truck drivers required
by the Working Time Directive and increased fuel
costs are simply passed on to us all - whether you
buy your potatoes at Lidl or Sainsbury.

Of course. Ask any of the freight industry bodies about the
cost of congestion caused by the car culture, and offset any
reductions in that against their fuel costs.

Oh, and Tescos may be cheaper than my local shops, but
Tescos + the cost of a car to get there certainly isn't.
Tescos + the cost of cycling there probably is (certainly is
if we consider only the marginal cost of cycling there) -
which is fine for me but not for my elderly neighbours.

--
Nick Kew

Nick's manifesto: htmlhelp.com~nickOpen ↗

In "]news:[email hidden],
Nick Kew <[email hidden]> typed:

Quoted message said:

Follow the link in my .sig. It's actually a page about
what the 'net can do for us.

Entirely tangentially, and purely out of interest, will you
be re-registering webthing.com as webÞing.com now that it's
possible. (That's with a thorn, in case my server decides to
trim the 8 bit bit)

A

Daniel Barlow said:

gavin said:

Truck drivers are not the middle classes. The trucks they
drive, which are becoming increasingly expensive to
operate, are the arteries of the economy. The costs of
the additional truck drivers required by the Working Time
Directive and increased fuel costs are simply passed on
to us all - whether you buy your potatoes at Lidl or
Sainsbury.

Among the other fruits in the supermarket near my office
are apples from the USA and pears from New Zealand.
Perhaps the additional transport costs could be reduced by
sourcing these items somewhere /closer/?

It wouldn't suprise me if the cost of moving them from the
dock to the shop was as much or more than the cost of moving
them on a boat from New Zealand to the dock.

--
Trevor Barton

On Sun, 16 May 2004 19:35:01 +0100, "Just zis Guy, you know?"
<[email hidden]> wrote (more or less):

Quoted message said:

On Sun, 16 May 2004 16:36:10 +0100, "Simon Mason"
<[email hidden]> wrote in message
<[email hidden]>:

Quoted message said:

What? In your Volvo? ;-)

Oh yes, I did drive once this week, I'd forgotten.

I'm going to drive this weekend! (Fourth car hire of the
year)

Mind you, I am going to drive to Millport for a families'
cycling weekend holiday on Cumbrae...

--
Cheers, Euan Gawnsoft: gawnsoft.co.srgawnsoft.co.srOpen ↗
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links (harvested from comp.lang.smalltalk)
html.dnsalias.netsmalltalkOpen ↗

On Mon, 17 May 2004 18:53:30 +0000 (UTC), "al_Mossah"
<[email hidden]> wrote (more or less):

Quoted message said:

Mothers sharing the school run when they live as far as
100m apart from each other...

Mothers stopping school-running when they live only 5 mins
walk from the school.

Quoted message said:

Supermarkets not shipping Scottish mineral water to Devon,
and Welsh water to East Anglia An average of more than
1.0000001 person per car in the rush-hours People in their
gas-guzzling FYFWDs (you work it out) choosing to down-
grade to a vehicle which consumes a litre in more than 4
miles People driving at economical speeds (i.e. well, less
than 90mph anyway.)

Judging from all the mumies running their dears to the
local schools today, I conclude that we're not there yet,
so Prudent Gordon can afford to lob a few more pence per
litre. Roll on the blockades!

Peter.

--
Cheers, Euan Gawnsoft: gawnsoft.co.srgawnsoft.co.srOpen ↗
Symbian/Epoc wiki: html.dnsalias.nethtml.dnsalias.netOpen ↗ Smalltalk
links (harvested from comp.lang.smalltalk)
html.dnsalias.netsmalltalkOpen ↗