Friendly police encounter

On Mon, 24 May 2004 14:56:53 -0400, "Roger Zoul" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Hey - keep riding. It's your right and you did nothing
wrong. I rode my bike early Sunday am and saw a police
officer in his car along side the rode waiting for
speeders. I passed him several times, but waved at him the
first time. He waved back. It was obvoius to him that I was
no threat to anyone (and I'm a large scary looking black
dude) and was just out getting

But...loveable and kindest to his motherest...eh? <g>

Turns out what happened was called a 'Terry Frisk' per
"Terry vs Ohio", and they and I did the perfect response -
open, honest, compliant on my part and gentle plus humor at
the end on their part.

Quoted message said:

in some exercise (heck, is about like 8 am on a Sunday
morn) -- not too many trouble makers out then. Also, I
firmly believe that most police officers DO NOT want
to go looking for trouble because there is very low
payoff in that.

ps...I'm always wondering about the ID thing, too. I don't
carry my drivers license because I'm afraid I'll get it
misplaced due to moving it around. So I carry a business
car with other vital info on the back, but no picture
ID.

Business card is good idea b/c if you knock yerself silly
they'll know whom to call.

Thanks for the, as usual, caring, Roger-like support and pat
on my pointed little bike helmet-like heed.

Best, -B

Quoted message said:

You're not far from me? I'm in Central Va. You? THought it
was Texas?

DC. We're in the middle of a cicada invasion.

Have a look at this, you may be safely out of the
affected areas.

msj.educicadaOpen ↗

Very many bugs, very interesting bicycling. They weigh about
eight pounds apiece and are apparently unguided when it
comes to any other moving object.

--

_______________________ALL AMIGA IN MY
MIND_______________________ ------------------"Buddy Holly,
the Texas Elvis"------------------ __________306.350.357.38-

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

[email hidden]__________

Terry Morse wrote:
:: Roger Zoul wrote:
::
::: ps...I'm always wondering about the ID thing, too. I
::: don't carry my drivers license because I'm afraid
::: I'll get it misplaced due to moving it around. So I
::: carry a business car with other vital info on the
::: back, but no picture ID.
::
:: I have a folded card with a copy of my driver's license,
:: emergency contact info, medical insurance card, vital
:: medical info, and a calling card number. It comes in very
:: handy when I'm in the hospital or being tended to by
:: paramedics.

Thanks...I think I'll work up something similar to put
in my bag.

Roger Zoul said:

Terry Morse wrote:
:: I have a folded card with a copy of my driver's
:: license, emergency contact info, medical insurance
:: card, vital medical info, and a calling card number. It
:: comes in very handy when I'm in the hospital or being
:: tended to by paramedics.

Thanks...I think I'll work up something similar to put
in my bag.

Better in your jersey pocket than in your saddle bag. The
bag may not make the same trip to the hospital as you do.
--
terry morse Palo Alto, CA bike.terrymorse.combike.terrymorse.comOpen ↗

On Mon, 24 May 2004 14:56:53 -0400 in rec.bicycles.misc, "Roger

Zoul said:

Also, I firmly believe that most police officers DO NOT
want to go looking for trouble because there is very low
payoff in that.

the ones that do are usually newbies on the force, or bigots
that just can't avoid hassling any minority persons that get
anywhere near them. these days, many police forces do a good
job of weeding out the bigots, but not the ambitious kids
who want a lot of busts on their record, not realizing that
it's not the number arrested, but reducing or preventing
crimes that counts the most.

On 25 May 2004 03:39:37 GMT in rec.bicycles.misc, [email hidden]

(Hunrobe) said:

Flight equals guilt

what [censored]! many minority people have experienced enough
gratuitous brutality on the part of police that it's not at
all surprising that they may flee an approaching officer or
police car. even those that have nothing to hide and are
here legally may have experienced police brutality in their
home country and may be rightfully wary of *any* authority.

i get along very well with *most* members of my local force,
in part because it's part of my job: i manage close to 500
rental units, including 3 mobile home parks. i have no
problems with any of them when out riding, since all but the
newest patrolmen know and recognize me. it does help that
there's a 90+ mile ferry ride to the nearest part of the
continental road system.

and especially in relation to kids, flight does *not* equal
guilt. to them, it may be just a game.

"Q." <LostVideos-AT-hotmail.com> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Let me just give you a piece of advice that I learned the
hard way ... police officers ARE NOT YOUR FRIENDS. They
consider you their enemy. They have to, in order to be
safe. However, they look for any excuse to mess with you
and they are looking to bust you for something. That's
their job. Don't trust them, and don't fall for their
sickly sweet smiles.

C.Q.C.

You have to be enemy for filling up their job. Their job
is busting you, giving citation, arresting you. It's their
job not necessarily for protecting society but mostly
protecting their job or promoting their position.

Badger_South <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

David L. Johnson said:

El Calaverada said:

You must be a pretty mild mannered guy to take that
incident so lightly, and that's cool. But, you said the
cops actually patted you down? That's not cool. That's
harsh! I'd be seriously [censored]!

If you had listened to the news lately, you may have
heard that there is some sort of generalized, panic-
inducing warning from the friendly folks at Homeland
Security about the possibility of suicide bombers. We are
all supposed to be on the lookout for people wearing
baggy coats on a warm day, or people disguised as
pregnant women.

You probably caught their attention with the raincoat,
along with the skimask. Heck, if you had walked into a
convenience store dressed like that the clerk might well
have shot first, asked questions later.

Well someone should tell Performance Bike Shop that they
have a Terrorist on their web pages (lol):

performancebike.comlarge photo.cfmOpen ↗
7538&Store=Bike

-B

HAHA... he does looks like a terrorist!

(Hunrobe) said:

Quoted message said:

Badger_South [email hidden]

I never leave home without ID. The one form of ID I always
have is a silver ID bracelet with my name, department name,
and badge number engraved on it. I call it my, "Hey, look.
We found body parts" ID.

Quoted message said:

What if I had not pulled over, but had gone back into the
woods on the lower trail? Would I have had officers
running to try and intercept me?

Flight equals guilt and no matter how much fun it may seem
to be to imagine leading the police on a merry chase and
cleverly evading them on your trusty bike, imagine instead
how embarrassing it would be to be caught by a cop on
foot. ;-)

Yeah - Actually I was not thinking of evading...normally I
will go right from my upper trail past a short section of
the park, through the gates and back into the bottom
trail. They may not have time to 'squawk' me. But yeah,
what you said.

Good reply Bob. I think what we may get out of this sitch
is:

1. Always be cordial, salute, wave, say thanks, on 'recovery
days' intro yourself to the fellow users - actually stop
the bike and learn - I met the 60 y.o. Boston runner with
the 3:04 times.

I'm often so into the discipline and pushing and pain that
I'm oblivious to the surroundings on parts of many rides.

2. Carry some kind of ID - helps ID yourself, helps show you
are a solid citizen. Give out friendly biker guy business
cards. It can help them know who to notify in the event
of an accident.

I like the idea of a dog tag.

Quoted message said:

Regards, Bob Hunt

Thanks a bunch.

-B

"Hunrobe" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

"Q." LostVideos-AT-hotmail.com

wrote in part:

Quoted message said:

Let me just give you a piece of advice that I learned the
hard way ... police officers ARE NOT YOUR FRIENDS. They
consider you their enemy.

They

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

have to, in order to be safe. However, they look for any
excuse to mess with you and they are looking to bust you
for something. That's their

job.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Don't trust them, and don't fall for their sickly sweet
smiles.

Okay, I'll bite...

No, we are not your friends. Friendship entails both a
knowledge of the

other

Quoted message said:

person and a mutual respect/regard for that person so
while we can be

friendly,

Quoted message said:

even cordial, simply meeting you does not make us
"friends". But you are

not

Quoted message said:

our enemy either. You are a stranger and we meet most
strangers in less

than

Quoted message said:

ideal circumstances so of course we are cautious. It's not
a police

officer's

Quoted message said:

job to "look for an excuse to mess with you".

Quoted message said:

If as you seem to imply, you've been busted for something
my only question is, did you do it?

You claim the average citizen is not your enemy, yet that
last statement speaks volumes. You already have me tried and
convicted of a crime. Interesting.

Let me give you an idea of my experience with the police
in this area. My "neck of the woods" is Pawtucket RI and I
was a teenager here in the 80's. Both the Chief of Police
and the Mayor of the city at that time were so corrupted,
and commited such serious crimes that they both ended up
in jail. I took no small satisfaction in that, beleive you
me. It took a hell of a lot of crimes for them to get
there though, and the system left a hell of a lot of
victims behind.

Quoted message said:

That's rhetorical of course because I sincerely doubt that
anyone posting anonymously that

*did*

Quoted message said:

break the law has the required cojones to admit they
deserved the trouble

they

Quoted message said:

got.

Rhetorical shmorical. I don't hide my identity that hard,
only from casual observers. Anyone with a working knowledge
of the internet beyond AOL's handholding can figure out who
I am and where I live pretty damn quick. Besides, who the
hell cares? What's with this obsession the police have with
ID's anyway??? Hopefully, the supreme court will be taking
care of that one soon:

papersplease.orghiibelOpen ↗

You know, life isn't fair and nobody said it was. People get
all sorts of trouble they don't deserve, and get away with
stuff they shouldn't. Once again though, it seems you've
already decided that anyone who has had trouble with the law
deserved what they got. OKay, so it's my turn to bite ... a
couple of times cops have screwed me for no good reason,
sometimes I do bad things and get away scott clean, very
very rarely when the planets are aligned and I've sacrificed
the necessary poultry I get exactly what I deserve but most
of the time I don't do anything of consequence and nothing
happens to me either way.

Perhaps I'm being a bit harsh though. I have experience on
both sides of the law, and I do know there are some real
good cops out there. Unfortunately, those good cops aren't
the ones most good people know ... it's the hypocrites with
the televangelist smiles pretending to be your bum chum who
I despise and who'll roll up on you and ruin your day (or
life for that matter). I stand by my original sentiment: If
you're a good person and have committed no crimes, then if
you're approached by a police officer don't be fooled into
thinking he is your friend and that you can trust him to
have your best interests at heart. Be damn careful of what
you say, and how you act. In other words: hope for the best
and prepare for the worse.

I wish things were different in this country, and I wish I
could trust every police officer I met. For that to happen
though, good honest police officers have to step up and grow
the "required cojones" to turn in bad cops instead of
tolerating them and looking away. Quite frankly, I don't
think that will happen anytime soon but until then the rest
of us never know what to expect when we're confronted by
Johnnie Law. Hell, I'd be happy if the police union just
admitted the reason they're opposed to drug testing is that
"a whole bunch of us like to smoke the chronic dude" (c:

C.Q.C.

On Mon, 24 May 2004 23:36:15 -0400, "Eric S. Sande" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

DC. We're in the middle of a cicada invasion.

Have a look at this, you may be safely out of the
affected areas.

We've got the Japanese monster movie noises coming from the
trees, but so far not that many bugs flying around. Guess
they come out at different times in different places. Saw a
few more on U.S.50 coming into DC, but still not what
everyone is talking about.

Curtis L. Russell Odenton, MD (USA) Just someone on
two wheels...

Q.' LostVideos-AT-hotmail.com said:

Hell, I'd be happy if the police union just admitted the
reason they're opposed to drug testing is that "a whole
bunch of us like to smoke the chronic dude" (c:

C.Q.C.

Interesting post...

Uh, what does that last sentence mean? You mean they like to
beat up minor drug sellers? (smoke someone?)

They may get off on the chase and capture and street
punishment as a form of a game of football...dunno. Same
thing with the adrenaline rush of the car chase and gang up.

I'd guess that although the adrenaline is nice for some, as
one said 'they just want to go home alive at night'.

-B

"Q." <LostVideos-AT-hotmail.com> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

with ID's anyway??? Hopefully, the supreme court will be
taking care of that one soon:

papersplease.orghiibelOpen ↗

Wow, I hadn't head anything about this before your post. The
implications seems large, and I believe, under the current
cloud of post 9/11, that it will be one more thing added
onto the pile. Walking my dog and going to get a newspaper I
have to carry ID, and produce it if asked? Scary.

--
Cheers!
Duke

In article <[email hidden]>,
DontSpamMedukes909 @PleaseYahoo.com says...

Quoted message said:

"Q." <LostVideos-AT-hotmail.com> wrote in message news:HeidneBTVsgHsS7dRVn-
[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

with ID's anyway??? Hopefully, the supreme court will be
taking care of that one soon:

papersplease.orghiibelOpen ↗

Wow, I hadn't head anything about this before your post.
The implications seems large, and I believe, under the
current cloud of post 9/11, that it will be one more
thing added onto the pile. Walking my dog and going to
get a newspaper I have to carry ID, and produce it if
asked? Scary.

Even if the police win the case (which I think is unlikely),
nothing in that incident would require you to *carry* ID;
only to produce it if you have it.

--
Remove the ns_ from if replying by e-mail (but keep posts in
the newsgroups if possible).

"David Kerber" <ns_dkerber@ns_ids.net> wrote in message

Quoted message said:

Even if the police win the case (which I think is
unlikely), nothing in that incident would require you to
*carry* ID; only to produce it if you have it.

My mistake. The crux of it is having to identify yourself
upon request by police; ID, or not, and a refusal to do so
would be a crime.

--
Cheers!
Duke

In article <[email hidden]>,
DontSpamMedukes909 @PleaseYahoo.com says...

Quoted message said:

"David Kerber" <ns_dkerber@ns_ids.net> wrote in message

Quoted message said:

Even if the police win the case (which I think is
unlikely), nothing in that incident would require you to
*carry* ID; only to produce it if you have it.

My mistake. The crux of it is having to identify yourself
upon request by police; ID, or not, and a refusal to do so
would be a crime.

True. But I still think that the conviction will be thrown
out for situations where there's no other evidence of wrong-
doing. We'll see in a few months...

--
Remove the ns_ from if replying by e-mail (but keep posts in
the newsgroups if possible).

(whinds) said:

In article <[email hidden]>,

Badger_South said:

During the spring one gets pelted relentlessly with
summer mosquitos, gnats, flying beetles, a various
smorgasbord, unexpected, and makes it hard to breathe if
you're riding through them on a bike.

See the 'Bugs' thread, started by Claire - we talked about
homemade mosquito nets, inhaling gnats.

Thanks for your concern.

-B

Yeah we get these no-see-ums here in Southern CA on the
Santa Ana River Trail. I wear sun glasses or clear lense
glasses as well as one of those large neckerchiefs cut in
half diagnally around my face they work great. I'm sorta of
concerned about mosquitos this year, the West Nile Virus is
already here. keep riding, Bill

Bandit on a bike look, eh? Got a link to the Santa Ana River
Trail map or schematic?

Always keep on!

Best,

-Badger

(Hunrobe) said:

What I was attempting to say was that most people assume
that running away from anything implies a certain fear of
being "caught".

Whatever the assumption, glad to have your input Bob.

Do you think it would be a good idea for someone to
suggest that one of the LEOs who do bike patrol in the
city occasionally ride down the trail to get a look at
what's going on?

Would that be inviting more problems than it's worth?

How would one suggest this expansion of the bike patrol? Now
I'm not suggesting a constant police presence, mind you.

The officer would eventually meet the unruly dog walkers,
and be able to note that the 'regulars' are being nice. The
bikers could stop and intro themselves, etc.

Best, -Badger

(whinds) said:

Gee why wouldn't you carry I.D.? I've nothing to hide and I
would want some one to know who I am if unconsious. Times
have changed. Years ago I was pulled over driving a rental
car with torn license tags

That's the point Bill - ppl are asking 'should we?' it's not
about 'hiding' anything.

I didn't have an ID b/c the trail literally abutts my back
yard, and I walk 10 feet and I'm there.

If I'm in my basement putting on bike gear I think
"Sunglasses, gloves, helmet, chewing gum, wrist sweat
bands, bug netting face protection" and not wallet, ID,
checkbook car keys. Those are in my other jacket when I go
out in the car.

But as you say there's a decent reason - ID if you're
injured - so maybe dog tags.

I tend to get everything I carry wet and sweaty, and I can
lose things. Last thing I want is to drop my wallet or
forget to move the license back upstairs, etc.

-Badger

"Badger_South" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

On Tue, 25 May 2004 07:22:55 -0400, "Q." <LostVideos-AT-
hotmail.com>

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Hell, I'd be happy if the police union just admitted the
reason they're opposed to drug testing is that "a whole
bunch of us like to smoke the chronic dude" (c:

C.Q.C.

Interesting post...

Uh, what does that last sentence mean? You mean they like
to beat up minor drug sellers? (smoke someone?)

It's slang for smoking marijuana. I just think it's funny
the police union is viciously opposed to drug testing in the
workspace yet many of us have to deal with it. We're all
free just some of us are more free than others (c:

C.Q.C.