Costs of chip timing on either side of the pond.

Quoted message said:

Our club has looked into the costs but it has usually
seemed prohibitive. Can anyone west of the atlantic give
approximate costs of chip timing over there? Just judging
from the prevelance I'm guessing it's considerably cheaper
than on our side.

I can't address costs because I don't work with the
organizers, but it seems the chip races don't always cost
more in entry fees than the non-chip ones, so I'd assume
that once you've bought the mats and so forth and a few
hundred chips, the ongoing costs aren't much.

Every year here (Dallas-Fort Worth, Texas) it seems more
races use chip timing. In fact a lot of people, including
me, have bought their own personal chips so they can skip
the chip line at sign-in.

--
Brian P. Baresch Fort Worth, Texas, USA Professional editing
and proofreading

If you're going through hell, keep going. --Winston
Churchill

"Tim Downie" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I'm intrigued by how many races on the US side of the
atlantic use chip timing (or at least how many that get
reported here).

Our club has looked into the costs but it has usually
seemed prohibitive. Can anyone west of the atlantic give
approximate costs of chip timing over there? Just judging
from the prevelance I'm guessing it's considerably cheaper
than on our side.

I'm also amazed at how many races use chip timing now. It
almost seems as though the race organizers think chip timing
somehow legitimizes their race. There's a small marathon
close to where I live that is using chip timing for the
first time this year and they'll only have 200-300 entries.
They also nearly doubled their entry fee because of it so
I'm assuming the cost is a flat fee plus about $10-15 per
runner (that's also the figure I've been quoted a couple of
times from people in the know).

Jim Johnson

A race I was once on the organizing committee looked into
chip timing. There was a flat fee of several hundred dollars
and then a per runner fee. We decided that for our event of
less than 500 runners, it was not worth it. The event was a
marathon so timing 500 people is not a big deal.

The cost is absorbed somewhere however. It might not show in
entry fees, but then it means that either the organizer is
not making as much money or the charity is not get as much
money (not that they get that much money anyway) or some
corners are being cut elsewhere (T shirt quality is an easy
place to cut costs).

"Brian Baresch" <[email hidden]>
wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Our club has looked into the costs but it has usually
seemed prohibitive. Can anyone west of the atlantic give
approximate costs of chip timing

over

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

there? Just judging from the prevelance I'm guessing it's
considerably cheaper than on our side.

I can't address costs because I don't work with the
organizers, but it seems the chip races don't always cost
more in entry fees than the non-chip ones, so I'd assume
that once you've bought the mats and so forth and a few
hundred chips, the ongoing costs aren't much.

Every year here (Dallas-Fort Worth, Texas) it seems more
races use chip timing. In fact a lot of people, including
me, have bought their own personal chips so they can skip
the chip line at sign-in.

--
Brian P. Baresch Fort Worth, Texas, USA Professional
editing and proofreading

If you're going through hell, keep going. --Winston
Churchill

Well if its any help.. I just ran Bloomsday in Spkane Wa. A
little run with 40,000 people. No chips used, results posted
in 24 hrs, cost $10.

JM

"Tim Downie" <[email hidden]> wrote in
message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I'm intrigued by how many races on the US side of the
atlantic use chip timing (or at least how many that get
reported here).

Our club has looked into the costs but it has usually
seemed prohibitive. Can anyone west of the atlantic give
approximate costs of chip timing over there? Just judging
from the prevelance I'm guessing it's considerably cheaper
than on our side.

Tim

--
Remove the *obvious* to reply by mail

Jim Johnson said:

"Tim Downie" <[email hidden]> wrote in
message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I'm intrigued by how many races on the US side of the
atlantic use chip timing (or at least how many that get
reported here).

Our club has looked into the costs but it has usually
seemed prohibitive. Can anyone west of the atlantic give
approximate costs of chip timing over there? Just judging
from the prevelance I'm guessing it's considerably
cheaper than on our side.

I'm also amazed at how many races use chip timing now. It
almost seems as though the race organizers think chip
timing somehow legitimizes their race.

Well, given that IMO that two of the most important
attributes a race ought to have are [1] accurate distance
and [2] accurate timing, I would say yes, it does
legitimize a race.

Quoted message said:

There's a small marathon close to where I live that is
using chip timing for the first time this year and
they'll only have 200-300 entries. They also nearly
doubled their entry fee because of it so I'm assuming the
cost is a flat fee plus about $10-15 per runner (that's
also the figure I've been quoted a couple of times from
people in the know).

For a race of that size it does seem overkill. I'm surprised
at just how much they've increase the fee though. Seems hard
to believe it adds *that* much.

Tim

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Remove the obvious to reply by email.

"JM" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Well if its any help.. I just ran Bloomsday in Spkane Wa.
A little

run with

Quoted message said:

40,000 people. No chips used, results posted in 24 hrs,
cost $10.

It would be more helpful if you told us how they recorded
the 40K numbers in 24 hours. I've worked a lot of finish
lines and the bigger the race the longer(and usually more)
chutes are needed. If your playing with tearing off tags and
keeping people in line the chances for an accurate set of
results decrease as the numbers increase. The last big race
I worked had the chip and what a pleasure to work.

Last week I put on a small mid-week trail run for my club
with 60 folks and the old clip board and index cards work
great. Paper chips so the speak and enty fee was $2 to cover
the cost of the lime to mark the course and some cups. 😉

-DougF

Brian Baresch said:

Quoted message said:

Our club has looked into the costs but it has usually
seemed prohibitive. Can anyone west of the atlantic give
approximate costs of chip timing over there? Just judging
from the prevelance I'm guessing it's considerably
cheaper than on our side.

I can't address costs because I don't work with the
organizers, but it seems the chip races don't always cost
more in entry fees than the non-chip ones, so I'd assume
that once you've bought the mats and so forth and a few
hundred chips, the ongoing costs aren't much.

I don't think many clubs here can afford to buy the
mats/computers/chips etc. I think it's more usual to lease
the whole lot from specialist companies who then provide the
whole results service and people to run the system.

It'd be interesting to know what it actually costs to
buy though.

Quoted message said:

Every year here (Dallas-Fort Worth, Texas) it seems more
races use chip timing. In fact a lot of people, including
me, have bought their own personal chips so they can skip
the chip line at sign-in.

Virtually unknown over here I believe. Just not enough chip
races to justify it.

Tim

--
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JM said:

Well if its any help.. I just ran Bloomsday in Spkane Wa.
A little run with 40,000 people. No chips used, results
posted in 24 hrs, cost $10.

Having been involved with producing race results I know that
there can be a big difference between "producing race
results" and "producing accurate race results". ;-)

I'm not saying their's weren't accurate but I'd love to
know more about how they time and log everyones' numbers
quickly enough.

Tim

--
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Quoted message said:

A race I was once on the organizing committee looked into
chip timing. There was a flat fee of several hundred
dollars and then a per runner fee.

A couple of the organizers here, I think, have invested in
their own systems, so they may be saving a bit there in
the long run. Chip timing is one of the things they hype
in the race flyers so apparently they think it boosts
turnout somewhat.

--
Brian P. Baresch Fort Worth, Texas, USA Professional editing
and proofreading

If you're going through hell, keep going. --Winston
Churchill

"Tim Downie" <[email hidden]> wrote
in message

Quoted message said:

Virtually unknown over here I believe. Just not enough
chip races to justify it.

Interesting - I would say that 9 out of 10 races I enter are
chip timed, but it was a rarity when I first started running
in 2000. There are now a few comapies in the area that
specialize in chip timing. The largest is www.sportstats.ca
(I'm sure Cam is familiar with them too, their office is in
Ottawa). They time most of our races. Another local one for
me is www.chiptimeresults.com . There's quite a few more,
but these are the two common ones for my neck of the woods.

cheers,
--
David (in Hamilton, ON) www.allfalldown.org "The most
insecure people are the ones you see putting other people
down constantly."

Tim Downie said:

JM said:

Well if its any help.. I just ran Bloomsday in Spkane Wa.
A little run with 40,000 people. No chips used, results
posted in 24 hrs, cost $10.

Having been involved with producing race results I know
that there can be a big difference between "producing race
results" and "producing accurate race results". ;-)

I'm not saying their's weren't accurate but I'd love to
know more about how they time and log everyones' numbers
quickly enough.

They could use the tag system, but that's not much good for
giving a "net time" (aka "chip time"😉. So even ignoring the
issues in trying to get everyone to turn in their tag in
finishing order, and double-checking that the system doesn't
get out of sync (e.g. when a bandit crosses the line), it
still doesn't address the issue of assigning net times. And
when you're in a 40,000 per son race, you probably care
about net time.

Cheers,
--
Donovan Rebbechi pegasus.rutgers.edu~elflordOpen ↗

"Tim Downie" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Brian Baresch said:

Quoted message said:

Our club has looked into the costs but it has usually
seemed prohibitive. Can anyone west of the atlantic
give approximate costs of chip timing over there? Just
judging from the prevelance I'm guessing it's
considerably cheaper than on our side.

I can't address costs because I don't work with the
organizers, but it seems the chip races don't always
cost more in entry fees than the non-chip ones, so I'd
assume that once you've bought the mats and so forth and
a few hundred chips, the ongoing costs aren't much.

I don't think many clubs here can afford to buy the
mats/computers/chips etc. I think it's more usual to lease
the whole lot from specialist companies who then provide
the whole results service and people to run the system.

It'd be interesting to know what it actually costs to
buy though.

I just googled to see if there was any mention of the cost
to purchase a chip timing system. I came up with minutes
from the Anchorage Running Club, where they were discussing
purchasing a (second) chip system, at a cost of $40,000. I
have no idea however of how many chips that included, timing
mats, etc. It sounded as though (is this true, Anchorage
runners?) that they manage many of the local races.

The local club here in Nashville has their own system, and
it seems their standard race fees (as listed for all
upcoming races of varying sizes) is $20/runner, which
includes the cost of the chip use. I don't really recall how
much of a change in fees that is since being chipless. They
charge you a $30 fee for not returning the chip at the end
of the race. Certainly once a club owns the system, they are
likely to use it for as many events as possible, which is
nice for the runners, and can get the club more money if
they up their race fees. (This club does not handle the
Country Music Marathon/Half Marathon, which is managed by
Elite Racing.)

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Every year here (Dallas-Fort Worth, Texas) it seems more
races use chip timing. In fact a lot of people,
including me, have bought their own personal chips so
they can skip the chip line at sign-in.

I have a chip of my own, purchased in a fit of ferver when I
thought I might run the Chicago Marathon. I've never had
good results trying to use my own chip with the races run by
my local group. I've run in a local half marathon twice, and
both times my chip number never got entered into the system.
Problem with volunteers who just don't understand the system
(oh, the computer will automatically know your chip
number!), or the sheet of paper doesn't make it to the
computer. The club does seem to distribute the chips pretty
efficiently, so it's not really a bother using their chip.

Try and contact the great people who run this race. Heres
the website.

www.bloomsday.org

Jim

"Tim Downie" <[email hidden]> wrote in
message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

JM said:

Well if its any help.. I just ran Bloomsday in Spkane
Wa. A little run with 40,000 people. No chips used,
results posted in 24 hrs, cost $10.

Having been involved with producing race results I know
that there can be

a

Quoted message said:

big difference between "producing race results" and
"producing accurate

race

Quoted message said:

results". ;-)

I'm not saying their's weren't accurate but I'd love to
know more about

how

Quoted message said:

they time and log everyones' numbers quickly enough.

Tim

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"Tim Downie" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Every year here (Dallas-Fort Worth, Texas) it seems more
races use chip timing. In fact a lot of people,
including me, have bought their own personal chips so
they can skip the chip line at sign-in.

Quoted message said:

Virtually unknown over here I believe. Just not enough
chip races to justify it.

Personal chips are common in Germany, too. It would almost
appear as if it was recommended to bring one´s own.

(The above snippet of useless information is motivated
mainly by my desire to tell a small anecdote: a few years
ago, chíp timing was quite unknown on these far shores
until´it was used in the Helsinki City Marathon. So, the
runners had gathered in the starting area, when a fellow
marathoner pointed to a Mr N that he had no chip attached to
his shoe. "The rules say: No chip, no time!" Mr N had ran
the event since its inception and now he was going to miss
it because he hadn´t remembered the chip! But it was still
in the envelope and the envelope was in his car and the car
was parked just 50m from the start!

Where were the car keys? They were with the other valuables
in safekeeping inside the stadium! Too far away to fetch
them in time! And no chip, no time!

So, Mr N pondered the situation, put his priorities in
order and picked up a heavy rubbish bin and smashed in the
side window of his car - and returned happily and in time
for the start!

After all, the cost of the new window was peanuts when you
split the sum over the years he´d ran the event!

Well, at one point in the race the idea of chip timing and
the alternative avenue of action it would´ve offered hit him
- but when all was said and done, he was still sort of proud
of his decision.

Anders

"Brian Baresch" <[email hidden]>
wrote in message

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

A race I was once on the organizing committee looked into
chip timing. There was a flat fee of several hundred
dollars and then a per runner

fee.

Quoted message said:

A couple of the organizers here, I think, have invested in
their own systems, so they may be saving a bit there in
the long run. Chip timing is one of the things they hype
in the race flyers so apparently they think it boosts
turnout somewhat.

I think it's a great thing - if you are a mid-to-back of the
pack runner, it must be a boost to know you will be able to
know your exact time. Just because someone is slower does
not mean they aren't just as obsessive about all the
numbers! 🙂

cheers,
--
David (in Hamilton, ON) www.allfalldown.org "The most
insecure people are the ones you see putting other people
down constantly."

mwright said:

I just googled to see if there was any mention of the cost
to purchase a chip timing system. I came up with minutes
from the Anchorage Running Club, where they were
discussing purchasing a (second) chip system, at a cost of
$40,000.

Here's the link for that anchoragerunningclub.orgarcOpen ↗
02182003.htm and it looks like newer digital system was more
expensive than older analog system based on some earlier
meeting notes although the earlier price may have been only
mats. anchoragerunningclub.orgarc 0208.htmOpen ↗

Quoted message said:

It sounded as though (is this true, Anchorage runners?)
that they manage many of the local races.

They're the sponsor for about 7 events (primarily road) in
Anchorage, but apparently contract out their marshalling
services for a fee to additional races. Other groups also do
this for a fee. I have absolutely no idea what this means -
manning aid stations or making sure people don't cut corners
or whatever? Where I am (about 40 miles northeast), we have
volunteers that are, duh, volunteers and mostly just make
sure people turn the correct direction.

The meeting notes sounded like the university (UAA -
University of Alaska Anchorage) was doing the primary
purchase and was looking for some additional funds from the
ARC. It sounded like the university was becoming a timing
system operator. They do sponsor some of the larger races as
well as several trail races, I think. It sounds like ARC had
helped purchase an earlier system that was actually owned by
the municipality of Anchorage and used by a number of events
for a fee by the events, although the paper work on that may
not have worked out very well.

Looking at entry fees for events that use it (only 3 that I
could tell for sure in the present schedule, but others may
use it but not advertise it), the fees are pretty standard.

In the past, there's been some lurkers from Anchorage in
r.r, and one rare poster, so if any of them pop in, they
might be able to tell you more. Heck, we use recycled bibs
on some of my races 😉

Prior to the last couple years, there were no timing or race
directing companies up here, afaik. Most races were run by
various organizations, stores, companies, but some of the
Anchorage athletes formed a company to offer race directing
/ timing services (including chips), but not sure how many
people are using them or if they have their own timing
system or rent one.

Hmm, I guess I coulda just said "no" but I wasn't sure if
that had the needed information 😉

Dot

--
"Success is different things to different people" -Bernd
Heinrich in Racing the Antelope

"SwStudio" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Brian Baresch" <[email hidden]>
wrote in

message

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

A race I was once on the organizing committee looked
into chip timing. There was a flat fee of several
hundred dollars and then a per runner

fee.

Quoted message said:

A couple of the organizers here, I think, have invested
in their own systems, so they may be saving a bit there
in the long run. Chip timing is one of the things they
hype in the race flyers so apparently they think it
boosts turnout somewhat.

I think it's a great thing - if you are a mid-to-back of
the pack runner, it must be a boost to know you will be
able to know your exact time.

... I meant to add here, "and have it publically recorded"

Quoted message said:

Just because someone is slower does not mean they aren't
just as obsessive about all the numbers! 🙂

cheers,
--
David (in Hamilton, ON) www.allfalldown.org "The most
insecure people are the ones you see putting other people
down constantly."

--
David (in Hamilton, ON) www.allfalldown.org "The most
insecure people are the ones you see putting other people
down constantly."

Quoted message said:

I think it's a great thing - if you are a mid-to-back of the pack runner,
it must be a boost to know you will be able to know your exact time.
Just because someone is slower does not mean they aren't just as
obsessive about all the numbers! 🙂

Somewhere (here?) I once saw a "then vs. now" thing:

Then: "My gun time was 20:01, but my watch time was 19:59."

Now: "My watch time was 20:01, but my chip time was 19:59."

--
Brian P. Baresch Fort Worth, Texas, USA Professional editing
and proofreading

If you're going through hell, keep going. --Winston
Churchill

"Brian Baresch" <[email hidden]>
wrote in message

Quoted message said:

Somewhere (here?) I once saw a "then vs. now" thing: Then:
"My gun time was 20:01, but my watch time was 19:59."

... meaning you had to keep repeating this to people if you
wanted them to know, and...

Quoted message said:

Now: "My watch time was 20:01, but my chip time was
19:59."

... your real time is public and anyone can see what you
"really" ran. 🙂

This is why I believe chip timing to be great for back-and
mid-packers, at least those that care about their time.

cheers,
--
David (in Hamilton, ON) www.allfalldown.org "The most
insecure people are the ones you see putting other people
down constantly."