Improving Stride Rate--Daniels' comments

[email hidden] (Lyndon) wrote in
:"]news:[email hidden]:

Quoted message said:

There was a discussion elsewhere recently about a hs
runner with a very slow stride rate and how to improve
this. The quoted paragraphs below were posted by Jack
Daniels PhD himself. As this is a fairly common discussion
item here, I thought this might be of some interest.

I have noticed during my occasional track workouts, that the
younger runners (guessing high school age) tend to have
longer, slower strides (maybe over striding). I also noticed
a lot of up and down movement as opposed to the straight
ahead movement of an efficient distance runner. This is of
course based on my small sampling of runners that happened
to be working out when I was working out. Do kids tend to do
this if they aren't coached properly?

Phil M.

--
"I gotta go. You're killin' me."

In article <[email hidden]>, Phil M.

Quoted message said:

[email hidden] (Lyndon) wrote in news:20040527115318.29983.00000010@mb-
m28.aol.com:

Quoted message said:

There was a discussion elsewhere recently about a hs
runner with a very slow stride rate and how to improve
this. The quoted paragraphs below were posted by Jack
Daniels PhD himself. As this is a fairly common
discussion item here, I thought this might be of some
interest.

I have noticed during my occasional track workouts, that
the younger runners (guessing high school age) tend to
have longer, slower strides (maybe over striding). I also
noticed a lot of up and down movement as opposed to the
straight ahead movement of an efficient distance runner.
This is of course based on my small sampling of runners
that happened to be working out when I was working out. Do
kids tend to do this if they aren't coached properly?

Phil M.

Phil,

Over the years, I've found over the years of observing and
coaching that what Jack said regarding "voluntary" is
important.

For some thinkers, the idea of a bigger stride to cover more
ground makes sense. So they take bigger steps and overstride
thereby slowing themselves in the process of attempting to
go forward.

When I give them the image of a foot touchdown as being a
bean bag, or a tennis ball, or a superball they get the idea
that they need to run lightly over the ground.

When they play the ouch-ouch-ouch running image, that is
running over a hot asphalt road barefoot, they get the idea
of quickly picking up the feet.

When they remember being told to walk not run around the
pool, they get the idea that the body/center of gravity is
moving horizontal with minimal verttical movement.

Then adding some of Danny Dreyer's chi running concepts that
you don't lift the knees rather the idea of bringing the
lower leg up to less than 090 degrees in relationship to the
hamstring.

And adding some of my own imaging that the legs start below
the rib cage, and that one is being catapulted off the
placed foot, the runners begin to get a sense of what it
means that running is falling and catching oneself
gracefully, or like a skateboarder catapulting the
skateboard forward with each kickback on the ground.

Most of us are visual learners. This is where the eye plays
tricks on what we think we see is going on and the reality
of what is actually happening. e.g. The elbows down swing
backward, the body goes forward past the elbow which from
the viewers perspective looks as if the elbow is swing
backwards and then forwards.

Just some thoughts.

In health and on the run, Ozzie Gontang Maintainer -
rec.running FAQ Director, San Diego Marathon Clinic, est.
1975

Mindful Running: mindfulness.commr.aspOpen ↗ faqs.orgrunningOpen ↗
faq/

Lyndon said:

One of the best examples of why NOT to take longer strides
(overstriding) can be found in the womens 400 at the Home
Depot Invitational. Jearl Miles-Clark (one of the all-time
best) was in the race. The women who led for most of the
race had a big lead at 200, but as she got more tired, the
kept opening up her stride. Miles-Clark maintained her
stride. closed the gap and pulled ahead just before the
tape. The other woman would have won the race if she just
kept the same stride length.

Whilst I'm a fan of the shorter stride/180 cadence, I hardly
think one race proves anything. All you can say is that the
other woman *might* have won if she just kept the same
stride length.

Tim
--
Remove the obvious to reply by email.

In article <[email hidden]>, Tim Downie

Quoted message said:

Lyndon said:

One of the best examples of why NOT to take longer
strides (overstriding) can be found in the womens 400 at
the Home Depot Invitational. Jearl Miles-Clark (one of
the all-time best) was in the race. The women who led
for most of the race had a big lead at 200, but as she
got more tired, the kept opening up her stride. Miles-
Clark maintained her stride. closed the gap and pulled
ahead just before the tape. The other woman would have
won the race if she just kept the same stride length.

Whilst I'm a fan of the shorter stride/180 cadence, I
hardly think one race proves anything. All you can say is
that the other woman *might* have won if she just kept the
same stride length.

Tim

I think there's some misconception regarding shorter
stride/180 cadence.

The shorter stride in my mind's eye means there is no
overstriding and the runner lands ball/heel
(instantaneously) or mid sole or flat footed with the center
of gravity over or slightly in front of the foot placement.
If I am running fast the shorter stride is still covering a
larger stride length.

In a shorter race, the gap between someone leading and the
runner catching up and passing them is often the fact that
the behind-runner increases the cadence while maintaining
the same stride length. From our spectator point of view it
looks like the lead runner is almost standing still as the
behind-runner accelerates.

In your observations above, Tim, often the front runner is
keeping the same stride length however her stride rate is
slowing. Often because it is so fast we can't see it.
However when slowed greatly one can see the changes in
decrease or increase of stride rate.

In health and on the run, Ozzie Gontang Maintainer -
rec.running FAQ Director, San Diego Marathon Clinic, est.
1975

Mindful Running: mindfulness.commr.aspOpen ↗ faqs.orgrunningOpen ↗
faq/