Gag speaks...Monex drops the ball.

You can send your comments to Monex at [email hidden]

"chris" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

From Cyclingnews. Apparently, Monex doesn't give a [censored]
about attempted assault, so maybe they should add a good
doping program as well. Gag sounds pretty much like a kid
making excuses.

After a disciplinary hearing found Team Monex rider Robert
Gaggioli guilty of assault for attacking fellow rider
Jonny Sundt with a 2x4 at the Cheaha Challenge, the
outspoken Italian-American has defended his actions,
saying he only wanted to "scare" Sundt and described his
six-month suspension as "excessive". In addition, Gaggioli
has indicated "I'm going to manage the team, no matter
what", despite the ban encompassing participating as a
rider or a manager in any USA Cycling or UCI events from
May 31 to December 31, 2004.

"I don't know if it was for defending myself or what, I
just grabbed a two-by-four," Gaggioli recalled in an
interview with Cyclingnews' Mark Zalewski on the eve of
the USPRO Championships. "Everyone knows about it, I'm not
lying - I admitted it. I grabbed it to scare him. I hit
the bike. I didn't try to hurt him. If I wanted to hurt
him I would hurt in hin the race, you know? That's the
easy way. We were two people involved in the incident, and
I'm the only one to pay for it."

Speaking about the numerous defamatory articles that have
being posted about him in Internet newsgroups, Gaggioli
retorted by saying, "I feel sorry for them because I am
going to be there a longer time than them. I think these
people there don't have any life. That is why they are
posting there."

Nevertheless, Gaggioli is determined to continue managing
the Monex team, who, according to himself, are right
behind him.

"I'm going to manage the team, no matter what. I am
suspended from anything requiring a USCF or UCI license.
So I can't follow the race in the car, or pick numbers up
at the meeting, but I am still managing the team, I am
still the director. Monex is still after me and I'm the
only one who can do the job. They don't really care what's
happening, because they know if it happened, that there is
a reason for it," he said

B. Lafferty said:

You can send your comments to Monex at [email hidden]

Already did........

And I hope everyone else does too.

--
le Vent a Dos Davey Crockett Six-Day site:
members.rogers.comsixday.htmlOpen ↗ Please address
all replies to the list

In article <[email hidden]>, chris

Quoted message said:

From Cyclingnews. Apparently, Monex doesn't give a [censored]
about attempted assault, ...

How would you characterize Sundt's actions during the
preceding races that lead to this confrontation?

-WG

Davey Crockett <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

B. Lafferty said:

You can send your comments to Monex at [email hidden]

Already did........

And I hope everyone else does too.

Also be sure to mention what a gentleman and a sport/class
act that that Johnny Sundt is.

No one should threten anyone with a 2x4 nor should they
swing it at someone's bike; but then, no one races like
Sundt, according to published reports.

-Ken

Quoted message said:

From: warren [email hidden]

Quoted message said:

How would you characterize Sundt's actions during the
preceding races that lead to this confrontation?

-WG

The same thing we tell our 10 year old, got tell a teacher,
or in this case an official. Punching people out is not the
answer, and using a deadly weapon is even stupider. It got
him suspended just like it does our 10 year old. Bill C

In article <[email hidden]>, TritonRider

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

From: warren [email hidden]

Quoted message said:

How would you characterize Sundt's actions during the
preceding races that lead to this confrontation?

-WG

The same thing we tell our 10 year old, got tell a
teacher, or in this case an official. Punching people out
is not the answer, and using a deadly weapon is even
stupider. It got him suspended just like it does our 10
year old.

You didn't answer the question. And do you really think
telling an official would have stopped Sundt from doing what
he apparently does often?

-WG

"warren" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

In article <[email hidden]>,

TritonRider said:

Quoted message said:

From: warren [email hidden]

Quoted message said:

How would you characterize Sundt's actions during the
preceding races that lead to this confrontation?

-WG

The same thing we tell our 10 year old, got tell a
teacher, or in this

case

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

an official. Punching people out is not the answer, and
using a deadly

weapon is

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

even stupider. It got him suspended just like it does
our 10 year old.

You didn't answer the question. And do you really think
telling an official would have stopped Sundt from doing
what he apparently does often?

-WG

Ahh jeezus Warren, I can't take the anticipation! Tell
us...what does Johnny "apparently do often"?? I would really
like to hear the other side of the story because all I've
heard is that Gaglioli attacked him with a 2x4. I can't
imagine (even as much of an ass I "hear" Roberto is) that he
would just do it for the hell of it.. Johnny must have
provoked him (either intentionally or by accident) somehow.

By the way, it also sounds like you're defending Roberto?
(side issue..)

Danny Callen

On Tue, 08 Jun 2004 01:23:30 GMT, warren <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

You didn't answer the question. And do you really think
telling an official would have stopped Sundt from doing
what he apparently does often?

If he got DQ'd a couple times and lost money/places it
would.

JT

In article <[email hidden]>, Danny Callen

Quoted message said:

Ahh jeezus Warren, I can't take the anticipation! Tell
us...what does Johnny "apparently do often"?? I would
really like to hear the other side of the story because
all I've heard is that Gaglioli attacked him with a 2x4. I
can't imagine (even as much of an ass I "hear" Roberto is)
that he would just do it for the hell of it.. Johnny must
have provoked him (either intentionally or by accident)
somehow.

Descriptions of that appeared here and elsewhere
(cyclingnews, velonews) about Sundt's riding style, and what
happened before the 2 x 4 came into play.

Quoted message said:

By the way, it also sounds like you're defending Roberto?
(side issue..)

I've said the 2x4 is not the way to do it, but discouraging
Sundt's behavior, or discouraging anybody else who's
getting too agressive is something that has to be done
sometimes. People get all upset if it happens outside the
racing but at least if it's outside the racing the two
combatants aren't going to cause any problems (crashes) for
the other guys in the race.

And Bill thinks the officials will handle it... How well did
they handlle what preceded the 2 x 4? Or the untold numbers
of other incidents with these and other racers that aren't
punished because the officials didn't see it for themselves?

As far as I'm concerned, since Gaggioli and Sundt are okay
with how they worked it out between themselves and they
didn't hurt anybody else then it's a done deal. I read also
that Sundt agreed that he shouldn't be taking his hands off
his bars to shove people off the road during races.

-WG

In article <[email hidden]>, John Forrest

Tomlinson said:

warren said:

You didn't answer the question. And do you really think
telling an official would have stopped Sundt from doing
what he apparently does often?

If he got DQ'd a couple times and lost money/places
it would.

I agree. How many times do you think Gaggioli or other
riders would get threatened or injured before that would
happen? Hasn't even happened to Gaggioli yet and he's had
more than a few incidents over the years. How about a former
Olympic sprinter who's occasionally pushing guys out of his
way during the finales of local-level 35+ races?

-WG

On Tue, 08 Jun 2004 02:16:39 GMT, warren <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

And Bill thinks the officials will handle it... How well
did they handlle what preceded the 2 x 4? Or the untold
numbers of other incidents with these and other racers that
aren't punished because the officials didn't see it for
themselves?

The officials can't be everywhere, but it'd the sport
would be better off it riders reported horrendous
behaviour more often.

JT

Quoted post said:

Originally posted by John Forrest To
On Tue, 08 Jun 2004 02:16:39 GMT, warren <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

And Bill thinks the officials will handle it... How well
did they handlle what preceded the 2 x 4? Or the untold
numbers of other incidents with these and other racers that
aren't punished because the officials didn't see it for
themselves?

The officials can't be everywhere, but it'd the sport
would be better off it riders reported horrendous
behaviour more often.

JT

You can report it all you want. The officials will always say "well, we didn't see it, sorry".

From what I have heard from people who have had first hand experiences with Sundt, I think Warren's comments are spot-on. It's like hockey - if the refs don't control the little incidents with small penalties, you wind up with a bench-clearing brawl and everyone gets booted out of the game.

pedalchick said:

John Forrest To said:

warren said:

And Bill thinks the officials will handle it... How
well did they handlle what preceded the 2 x 4? Or the
untold numbers of other incidents with these and other
racers that aren't punished because the officials
didn't see it for themselves?

The officials can't be everywhere, but it'd the sport
would be better off it riders reported horrendous
behaviour more often. JT

You can report it all you want. The officials will always
say "well, we didn't see it, sorry".

I've heard that. I've also head "Get a few more people to
talk to us." And after awhile, officials keep their eyes
open more for certain guys. That might not be effective on
the national circuit with different officials every weekend,
but it can help.

JT

warren <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

In article <[email hidden]>,

John Forrest Tomlinson said:

warren said:

You didn't answer the question. And do you really think
telling an official would have stopped Sundt from doing
what he apparently does often?

If he got DQ'd a couple times and lost money/places it
would.

I agree. How many times do you think Gaggioli or other
riders would get threatened or injured before that would
happen? Hasn't even happened to Gaggioli yet and he's
had more than a few incidents over the years. How about
a former Olympic sprinter who's occasionally pushing
guys out of his way during the finales of local-level
35+ races?

Is his name Ken? Ken pushed me out of the way at Burlingame
last year on the final lap.

-the other Ken

Quoted message said:

-WG

Sundt would be alone here. A friend of mine had "issues"
with Nothstein who likes to use his mass to push people
around. The solution to his problem was to crash Nothstein
out of the race. He never ran into this problem again.

The problem is that this stuff goes on no matter where you
are, its racing (for better or worse). What I was always
told is that you leave your hands on the bars, end of story;
if you can't "muscle people around" with your hands on the
bars, then you should step back. It doesn't make any of this
right, but officials can't always, and sometimes don't want
to do anything about even when there are witnesses.

Personally, a good old fist fight isn't always a bad thing
if you can resolve things, but when 2x4's, knives or other
things get involved then things get out of control...Maybe
we should set up a boxing ring.

"Its all fun and games..."

Chris

pedalchick <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

John Forrest To said:

warren said:

And Bill thinks the officials will handle it... How
well did they handlle what preceded the 2 x 4? Or the
untold numbers of other incidents with these and
other racers that aren't punished because the
officials didn't see it for themselves?

The officials can't be everywhere, but it'd the sport
would be better off it riders reported horrendous
behaviour more often. JT

You can report it all you want. The officials will always
say "well, we didn't see it, sorry".

From what I have heard from people who have had first
hand experiences with Sundt, I think Warren's comments
are spot-on. It's like hockey - if the refs don't control
the little incidents with small penalties, you wind up
with a bench-clearing brawl and everyone gets booted out
of the game.

--

"warren" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

In article <[email hidden]>, Danny

Callen said:

Ahh jeezus Warren, I can't take the anticipation! Tell
us...what does

Johnny

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

"apparently do often"?? I would really like to hear the
other side of

the

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

story because all I've heard is that Gaglioli attacked
him with a 2x4. I can't imagine (even as much of an ass
I "hear" Roberto is) that he would just do it for the
hell of it.. Johnny must have provoked him (either
intentionally or by accident) somehow.

Descriptions of that appeared here and elsewhere
(cyclingnews, velonews) about Sundt's riding style, and
what happened before the 2 x 4 came into play.

Quoted message said:

By the way, it also sounds like you're defending
Roberto? (side

issue..)

Quoted message said:

I've said the 2x4 is not the way to do it, but
discouraging Sundt's behavior, or discouraging anybody
else who's getting too agressive is something that has to
be done sometimes. People get all upset if it happens
outside the racing but at least if it's outside the racing
the two combatants aren't going to cause any problems
(crashes) for the other guys in the race.

And Bill thinks the officials will handle it... How well
did they handlle what preceded the 2 x 4? Or the untold
numbers of other incidents with these and other racers
that aren't punished because the officials didn't see it
for themselves?

As far as I'm concerned, since Gaggioli and Sundt are
okay with how they worked it out between themselves and
they didn't hurt anybody else then it's a done deal. I
read also that Sundt agreed that he shouldn't be taking
his hands off his bars to shove people off the road
during races.

-WG

Again, thankds for the info. Admittedly, I've been riding my
desk at work more than being up on the details of the
incident. I really wish officials would take more agressive
action towards riders that exhibit behaviours of both these
gentleman. I still can't say Roberto was justifiied but I
was not there! It is certainly safer than swinging at each
other in the middle of a sprint..

Danny Callen

In article <[email hidden]>,

(chris) said:

Personally, a good old fist fight isn't always a bad thing
if you can resolve things, but when 2x4's, knives or other
things get involved then things get out of control...Maybe
we should set up a boxing ring.

"Its all fun and games..."

Chris

The thing that's kind of surprising about this incident
(Sundt v. Gag) is that it was done (apparently) with both
of 'em still in their cycling shoes. So if setting up a
boxing ring is the answer, then I propose it have a
polished concrete floor for max slipperiness. Shoes with
cleats (no covers!) would be a requirement, of course.

--
tanx, Howard

"Copper will never be gold" Shellac

remove YOUR SHOES to reply, ok?

Danny Callen said:

I don't think anyone is saying that all officials act a
certain way , etc, etc...but only that when there is
dangerous riding (especially in multiple incidents)
that the officials need to take a mored direct / harder
line with the "suspect" and potentially investigate the
issue a bit??

Except that some people seem to feel that the official
saying either, "I didn't see it," or "get another
witness," is a cop-out. It doesn't take many races as an
official to hear a fair share of "he said, he said'
situations, especially when a couple of racers decide to
dump the race and focus on the argument (I've seen two
leaders slow down and play wheel games as the peloton
passed them more than once).

And everyone else decides it isn't worth holding up their
ride or their or a beer to stay around for the protest or
whatever it turns into. So the official has to [censored]
people with two versions of the same incident and damn
little else.

Hell, more officials may be great, but sometimes it would be
enough if people didn't just [censored] about it as they raced
for the parking lot and hung around long enough to say
something when the referee is free. No wonder the parking
lot is where everything gets settled - that's where everyone
is 5 minutes after the results are posted.

Maybe they can have a "next day on ARBR" as a protest
option.

Curtis L. Russell Odenton, MD (USA) Just someone on
two wheels...

PERFECT! That would make for better entertainment to boot.

Howard Kveck <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:<YOURhoward-
[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

In article
<[email hidden]>,

(chris) said:

Personally, a good old fist fight isn't always a bad
thing if you can resolve things, but when 2x4's, knives
or other things get involved then things get out of
control...Maybe we should set up a boxing ring.

"Its all fun and games..."

Chris

The thing that's kind of surprising about this incident
(Sundt v. Gag) is that it was done (apparently) with
both of 'em still in their cycling shoes. So if setting
up a boxing ring is the answer, then I propose it have
a polished concrete floor for max slipperiness. Shoes
with cleats (no covers!) would be a requirement, of
course.