Fatso ain't looking that bad....

Tuschinski said:

The Tour de Suise isn't the TdF. But I think the people
writing of JU should eat crow. Or should that be a
laxative as they were full of it? 🙂

Looks like there was a massive split and the sprinters,
McEwen notably, were way behind. Jan effectively outsprinted
the other sprint non-specialists. At least he's showing good
tactics by not starting the race 18 minutes down.

Richard Adams said:

Jan effectively outsprinted the other sprint non-
specialists.

Still, Camenzind is no sukkelaar.

Richard Adams said:

Tuschinski said:

The Tour de Suise isn't the TdF. But I think the people
writing of JU should eat crow. Or should that be a
laxative as they were full of it? 🙂

Looks like there was a massive split and the sprinters,
McEwen notably, were way behind. Jan effectively
outsprinted the other sprint non-specialists. At least
he's showing good tactics by not starting the race 18
minutes down.

There was a break of two riders with 35K to go. Ullrich
bridged up (with Camenzind on his wheel) at 25K and then did
a lot of work to keep the break away. Jeker made it up with
10K to go.

This was not a "sprint" win for Ullrich, but an impressive
win in a small break with some very good riders. Maybe he
has learned something from Zurich finally, where he often
is the main factor in the break but always looses the few-
up sprint.

I wonder what will be going on now in T-Mobile's camp
though, as they must have been supporting Vinokourov for the
TdS. Ullrich cannot afford to alienate Vino right now,
unless he feels like superman. I expect to see some serious
domestique action from Ulle until the final time trial.

steve

Richard Adams said:

Tuschinski said:

The Tour de Suise isn't the TdF. But I think the people
writing of JU should eat crow. Or should that be a
laxative as they were full of it? 🙂

Looks like there was a massive split and the sprinters,
McEwen notably, were way behind. Jan effectively
outsprinted the other sprint non-specialists. At least
he's showing good tactics by not starting the race 18
minutes down.

Jan was doing some big turns early on today too, while Vino
enjoyed a bit more protection. "Suffer you
sow/pig/swine/farm animal".

Jeff

steve robertson said:

[...] Maybe he has learned something from Zurich finally,
where he often is the main factor in the break but always
looses the few-up sprint.

Indeed, that happened few times in Zürich. Last year, it
was a bit different, and Nardello won in a solo break.
Wasn't it similar 2 years ago? Jan must hate Zürich, but
for some reason, he still likes it. Perhaps similar to TdF
(he never won Zürich, but got almost the same number of
second places).

BTW. Zürich is a phantastic race to watch at the street.
With a bike, you can see the racers twice each round. Then
you can watch the finish at some TV close to the road.

Quoted message said:

I wonder what will be going on now in T-Mobile's camp
though, as they must have been supporting Vinokourov
for the TdS. Ullrich cannot afford to alienate Vino
right now, unless he feels like superman. I expect to
see some serious domestique action from Ulle until the
final time trial.

I guess, we will exactly see this.

Regards, Dieter

Dieter Buerssner schreibt: [snip]

Quoted message said:

BTW. Zürich is a phantastic race to watch at the street.

[snup]

I think you mean pfannentastic.

"Tuschinski" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

The Tour de Suise isn't the TdF. But I think the people
writing of JU

should eat crow. Or should that be a laxative as they were
full of it? 🙂

Quoted message said:

Do some searches from years past and you will see that
picking on Jan is a well established part of the traditional
rivalry between Jan and any other Tour contender. The worst
years for actual weight gain are long past, but tradition
must be upheld (I guess). Some people just can't manage to
come up with new material and Jan being "fat" is too
tempting for envious wannabes to pass up.

Quoted post said:

Originally posted by Chris

Do some searches from years past and you will see that
picking on Jan is a well established part of the traditional
rivalry between Jan and any other Tour contender. The worst
years for actual weight gain are long past, but tradition
must be upheld (I guess). Some people just can't manage to
come up with new material and Jan being "fat" is too
tempting for envious wannabes to pass up.

I know... But as I actually have met JU a few years ago I am very annoyed about the nonsense sprouted about him. Anyone calling a pro cyclist "fat" (Dario Pieri is supposed to be the exception, LOL) needs to get a grip on reality. When I met him (it was an April in wich he was once again called "fat"😉 I was a little bit shocked. I am called thin by most people. But I look like a body builder compared to JU.

Sure LA looked like a stickfigure (And Dekker is just plain scary!), but somehow I can't shake the feeling 1-2 kilos more wouldn't hurt a TdF racer. I saw quite a few tests wich pointed out bike weigth isn't an important factor at all... so how come two extra kilos would make winning the TdF improbable?

Tuschinski said:

I saw quite a few tests wich pointed out bike weigth isn't
an important factor at all...

What tests and where?

JT

Quoted post said:

Originally posted by John Forrest To
On Mon, 14 Jun 2004 08:00:27 GMT, Tuschinski

Quoted message said:

I saw quite a few tests wich pointed out bike weigth isn't
an important factor at all...

What tests and where?

JT

The Dutch magazine Fiets had quite a few articles a few years ago on bike weigth. Adrie van Diemen did something similar on rider weigth (if you wonder, he had among other Danny Nelissen under his wing when he became Worldchampion).

I could try to reason to it (but I'm no expert in this area): if you take of one Kilo of the bike of a 75 kg pro you would get *approx*

Bike+ gear(shoes, helmet, socks etc)= 8.5kgs->7.5 kgs
Rider =75kgs

Percentage weigth lost- 1.2%

Now how much would this effectively count towards friction? Friction is minor compared to air resistance (more when climbing for sure, but would it be over 0.1%?). And would you ascend somewhat faster (conservation of energy)?

I agree that every little thing counts, but we are entering the realm of myth here.

To complicate it:*extra kg bodyweigth=could mean Extra KG fuel/muscle?*

Tuschinski <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

John Forrest To said:

Tuschinski usenet- said:

I saw quite a few tests wich pointed out bike weigth
isn't an important factor at all...

What tests and where? JT

The Dutch magazine Fiets had quite a few articles a few
years ago on bike weigth. Adrie van Diemen did something
similar on rider weigth (if you wonder, he had among other
Danny Nelissen under his wing when he became
Worldchampion).

I could try to reason to it (but I'm no expert in this
area): if you take of one Kilo of the bike of a 75 kg pro
you would get *approx*

Bike+ gear(shoes, helmet, socks etc)= 8.5kgs->7.5 kgs
Rider =75kgs

Percentage weigth lost- 1.2%

Now how much would this effectively count towards
friction? Friction is minor compared to air resistance
(more when climbing for sure, but would it be over 0.1%?).
And would you ascend somewhat faster (conservation of
energy)?

I agree that every little thing counts, but we are
entering the realm of myth here.

To complicate it:*extra kg bodyweigth=could mean Extra KG
fuel/muscle?*

--

Acording to www.analyticcyling.com the difference at 400
watts on a 6% slope is 7 cm/sec a fairly substanial amount.
I.E for a one hour uphill TT, the difference is 252 meters;
roughly 35 seconds.

The website also explains the calculations.