Chief wants police in cruiser, not on bike

Hmmm. If I had put a call in for help and the nearest cop
was a mile away I'd want him in a squad car and not on a
bike, too. I think anyone would.

--

- GRL

"It's good to want things."

Steve Barr (philosopher, poet,
humorist, chemist, Visual Basic
programmer) "Garrison Hilliard"
<[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:Pine.SUN.4.56.0406141039530.1130-
[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Monday, June 14, 2004 Chief wants police in cruiser,
not on bike

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Quoted message said:

The Associated Press

COLUMBUS - The police chief wants to get rid of foot,
bicycle and mounted patrols to put more officers in
cruisers.

Police Chief James Jackson, who also wants to take
officers out of high schools, outlined the proposal last
month in a memo to Safety Director Mitchell Brown.

He said he has tried repeatedly to put more officers in
patrol cars but has been overruled by Brown and Mayor
Michael Coleman.

"A walking officer is good within about 50 feet of where
he's walking or standing," Jackson said.

Brown said his office is evaluating whether certain units
can be eliminated, adding that the city eliminated the
DARE program last year and an anti-crime rock band in 2001
at Jackson's urging.

City Councilman Michael Mentel, chairman of the council's
safety committee, said the mounted, bicycle, high-school
and foot patrols should be retained. Mentel said they
encourage more direct contact between police and citizens.

But an expert on community policing said it's more
important that police be available promptly.

"The highest priority for any police department is
adequate response to calls for public service," said
Hubert Williams, president of the Police Foundation, a
nonprofit research organization in Washington, D.C. "If
you don't have adequate resources to do that, you have to
make decisions about cutting back in other areas."

Jackson cites a consultant's 2001 recommendation that
the city deploy 420 cruisers a day. The city has 337,
Jackson said.

Jackson announced last month that he won't allow nonpatrol
positions to be filled because of the need for more
officers in cruisers.

"We have shortages out there, no doubt about it," said
Bill Capretta, president of the Fraternal Order of Police
Lodge No. 9. "But not everybody can be in a cruiser. You
need support people, you need people investigating
homicides and rapes."

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"GRL" <[email hidden]> wrote in
:"]news:[email hidden]:

Quoted message said:

Hmmm. If I had put a call in for help and the nearest cop
was a mile away I'd want him in a squad car and not on a
bike, too. I think anyone would.

Which was the argument of the Monson, MA police officers. I
really can't blame them. Additional patrols by bicyle and
foot are really great when you have enough man power in
cruisers already.

--
William H. O'Hara KB1LEH

"GRL" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Hmmm. If I had put a call in for help and the nearest cop
was a mile away I'd want him in a squad car and not on a
bike, too. I think anyone would.

True, but I'd also want an officer who can silently
sneak up on a situation, pursue the suspect down an
alleyway and through the park, and outrun him while
toting 25 lbs of gear.

Bike mounted cops are also more personable. More
neighborhood friendly. In a car, they're more isolated from
the environment and the citizens.

Some situations cars are better, some bikes are better.
Sometimes horses are better.

Pete

"Hunrobe" <[email hidden]> wrote

Quoted message said:

All of that is true but it seems that the city in question
(Columbus

where?) is

Quoted message said:

faced with an either/or proposition- keep the foot beats,
bike patrol, and mounted patrol and suffer slower response
times because of a shortage of

beat

Quoted message said:

cars or eliminate them to maintain adequate staffing in
motor patrol.

Reading

Quoted message said:

between the lines, I'd guess there's a political element
to the proposed

cuts

Quoted message said:

as well. It sounds like the chief is painting the public
safety director

and

Quoted message said:

mayor into a corner to force them to hire more officers.
That may or may

not be

Quoted message said:

a bad thing. It depends on the accuracy and reasonableness
of their

proposed

Quoted message said:

minimum staffing goals.

Right. Overall response times shouldn't suffer so a city can
have bike or foot patrols, but they do have their place.

Pete

(Hunrobe) said:

All of that is true but it seems that the city in question

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

>(Columbus where?)

Columbus, Ohio

On 15 Jun 2004 03:24:56 GMT in rec.bicycles.misc, [email hidden]

(Hunrobe) said:

All of that is true but it seems that the city in question
(Columbus where?) is faced with an either/or proposition-
keep the foot beats, bike patrol, and mounted patrol and
suffer slower response times because of a shortage of beat
cars or eliminate them to maintain adequate staffing in
motor patrol. Reading between the lines, I'd guess there's
a political element to the proposed cuts as well. It
sounds like the chief is painting the public safety
director and mayor into a corner to force them to hire
more officers. That may or may not be a bad thing. It
depends on the accuracy and reasonableness of their
proposed minimum staffing goals.

if the goal is *preventing* crimes, then it's far better to
keep officers on foot and on bikes, where they get to know
the neighborhood and aren't isolated in cages.

if the goal is responding to crimes because the community
doesn't practice good crime prevention policing (including
providing an adequate budget for officers in schools and in
neighborhoods), it won't make much difference how many cars
of cops are out riding around, if they don't get out and
talk to the folks they supposedly work for at times other
than when responding to a crime.

this is yet another area where the cheap guy spends more ---
prevention is almost always cheaper than spending more later
to catch the criminals and keep them locked up.

On 15 Jun 2004 03:48:30 GMT, [email hidden] (James S. Prine)

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

True, but I'd also want an officer who can silently sneak
up on a situation, pursue the suspect down an alleyway
and through the park, and outrun him while toting 25 lbs
of gear.

That's why they're called 'foot patrols' <g>.

Quoted message said:

Some situations cars are better, some bikes are better.
Sometimes horses are better.

Indeed. Check out how the New Orleans Police Department
uses its Mounted Division during Mardi Gras. Ironically,
the Bike Division is worthless in the French Quarter at
that time, because of pedestrian density.

James S. Prine hometown.aol.comjsprineOpen ↗

I got used to seeing mounted policemen in Central London.
They'd clop away, two abreast in the bus lane, and everyone
had to yield to the horses. The horses themselves were
remarkably well-behaved and well-disciplined animals: they
would stop obediently at the stoplights, and were not
alarmed when overtaken by even the loudest, clattering
London doubledecker bus.

I also got to know them in their crowd-control capacities,
at large demonstrations and occasionally breaking up
potential fights between football supporters at pubs.
They're quite imposing.

From a cyclist's point of view, they really compel you to
use mudguards on your bicycle . Having to ride at speed over
a fresh horseapple will convince you quickly of the value of
mudguards.

=-Luigi

For the most part, I can see the point about wanting cops to be in cars as far as response times go. One place where that's unlikely to apply, however, is in the centre on the city. In Melbourne, which is neither a particularly large, nor particularly congested city, I can move about a great deal faster and more effectively by bike than I could in a car. Still, while it lacks some of the social aspects, in environments like that I'd probably be tempted to start looking at using more motorcycle cops. hard to say without looking at where the specific trouble areas are in the city. Response time may not even be an issue. If problem areas are things like assaults involving homeless people or car theft or vandalism, faster cops aren't going to help. More observant ones are. So...do you need your cops to be faster or more aware or what? There ain't no one single cure for ever't'ang.

Quoted message said:

More observant ones are. So...do you need your cops to be
faster or more aware or what? There ain't no one single
cure for ever't'ang.

So true. For instance, a Bike Officer can get to a scene and
take appropriate action very swiftly, but if that action
involves a physical arrest, the Bike unit still has to wait
for a motor transport vehicle to take the prisoner to
Central Lockup. That can be a lengthy wait sometimes....

James S. Prine hometown.aol.comjsprineOpen ↗

GRL said:

Hmmm. If I had put a call in for help and the nearest cop
was a mile away I'd want him in a squad car and not on a
bike, too. I think anyone would.

"Dial 911 and Die" is true whether response time is 2
minutes or 20. The TV scenario of cops getting a call,
pulling a bootlegger turn in the middle of traffic and
arriving just in the nick of time to save the day is
mostly fantasy.

A couple of weeks ago late at night somebody drove by and
threw a rock through my neighbor's car window. The police
response was something like four minutes. The perps were
probably in the next county by the time the cops arrived to
fill out paperwork.

RFM

Quoted post said:

Originally posted by James S. Prine
>More observant ones are. So...do you need your cops to be

Quoted message said:

faster or more aware or what? There ain't no one single
cure for ever't'ang.

So true. For instance, a Bike Officer can get to a scene and
take appropriate action very swiftly, but if that action
involves a physical arrest, the Bike unit still has to wait
for a motor transport vehicle to take the prisoner to
Central Lockup. That can be a lengthy wait sometimes....

James S. Prine hometown.aol.comjsprineOpen ↗

I was really thinking of proactive vs. reactive police work. The best police work is the stuff that prevents crimes rather than trying to apprehend someone once the crime has already been committed.

Garrison said:

Monday, June 14, 2004 Chief wants police in cruiser, not
on bike...

COLUMBUS (Ohio)- The police chief wants to get rid of
foot, bicycle and mounted patrols to put more officers in
cruisers...

...

Quoted message said:

(Police chief) Jackson cites a consultant's 2001
recommendation that the city > deploy 420 cruisers a day.
The city has 337, Jackson said...

So where does he intend to find the funds to acquire
another 83 police cars? And the fuel for them?? (What do
you call the person who graduated last in his class from
the police academy? "Officer."😉 IPMBA stats indicate that
you can mount up 10 bicycle officers for the price of one
Crown Vic. Columbus is a typical midwestern capital city
with state offices, downtown, neighborhoods, and I hear
there's a college there as well. 😉 I've heard many
stories about the first responder on-scene being on a
bicycle. More support related herein: home.earthl-home.earthl-Open ↗
ink.net/~kmssavage/writing.htm#Police%20Cyclist

HTH

--Karen M.

GRL said:

Hmmm. If I had put a call in for help and the nearest cop
was a mile away I'd want him in a squad car and not on a
bike, too. I think anyone would.

I think cops should all be on foot, armed only with balloon
weapons, and naked except for some kind of humiliating hat.

If they go a whole year without killing anybody we can
consider letting them have pants, and perhaps wiffle bats.

Chalo Colina

"Fritz M" <[email hidden]> wrote

Quoted message said:

A couple of weeks ago late at night somebody drove by and
threw a rock through my neighbor's car window. The police
response was something like four minutes. The perps were
probably in the next county by the time the cops arrived
to fill out paperwork.

4 whole minutes? What do you suggest? Stationing a cop in
everyone's front yard?

Pete

Resound said:

If problem areas are things like assaults involving
homeless people or car theft or vandalism, faster cops
aren't going to help. More observant ones are. So...do you
need your cops to be faster or more aware or what? There
ain't no one single cure for ever't'ang.

Sometimes the problem with cops is that they spend their
time in pursuits of no public benefit, like harassing
members of one or another marginalized group. In my
experience, bike cops are more likely to harass cyclists,
while being basically impotent to deal with dangerous car
drivers. From where I stand this is a reason to put them
back in patrol cars.

Chalo Colina

In article <[email hidden]>,

(Chalo) said:

I think cops should all be on foot, armed only with
balloon weapons, and naked except for some kind of
humiliating hat.

We had a bike ride just like that here (except for the part
about being on foot), a few days ago.

I didn't go. There are some people around by whom I don't
want to be recognized.

cheers, Tom

--
-- Powered by FreeBSD Above address is just a spam midden.
I'm really at: tkeats [curlicue] vcn [point] bc [point] ca

Hunrobe said:

Agreed on both counts. Unfortunately in times of tight
budgets something has to be cut since police don't have
the option of charging more for their services to
temporarily offset lower budgets.
<g> In Columbus OH, the chief has decided those cuts
should take place in the bike and mounted patrols
units. That people in a cycling NG might object is to
be expected just as I'm sure that the officers
currently assigned to those units aren't too happy
either.

I'd be pretty bummed if I was a bike cop, and forced to give
it up for car duty.

I wonder what it costs to maintain horses these days --
probably more than cars.

Matt O.

Chalo said:

Sometimes the problem with cops is that they spend their
time in pursuits of no public benefit, like harassing
members of one or another marginalized group.

It happens, but probably not as much as you think, in the
overall scheme of things. There are knuckleheads in every
profession.

In my experience, bike cops are more

Quoted message said:

likely to harass cyclists, while being basically impotent
to deal with dangerous car drivers. From where I stand
this is a reason to put them back in patrol cars.

It depends on the neighborhood, but by no means are bike
cops impotent in dealing with car drivers. Bikes can move
through traffic, through alleys and walkways, cut across
parking lots, hop curbs and go down sidewalks, and otherwise
take shortcuts not available to cars. I've seen bike cops do
this many times, being very effective where a car would have
been useless.

Matt O.

"Hunrobe" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Imagine a bike messenger that has to carry an additional
20-30 lbs of equipment, wear a very hot ballistic vest,
PLUS wrestle with drunks and knotheads on a semi-regular
basis. Still sound appealing? <g>

Certainly I would think bicycle patrol duty in downtown
Seattle wouldn't be that much of a treat. But a while back I
was at a public park on a summer evening with my kids, and a
patrol officer was riding through -- his life didn't look
that bad :-)

Warm Regards,

Claire Petersky Please replace earthlink for mouse-potato
and .net for .com Home of the meditative cyclist:
home.earthlink.netWelcome.htmOpen ↗ See the
books I've set free at:
bookcrossing.comCpeterskyOpen ↗