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Reconsidering attitude to footy flags..

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UK and Europe
Published
20 June 2004
Last activity
25 June 2004
Original author
Velvet
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22
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  1. Well, was a little surprised by this, but...

    Whilst we were out cycling on sat from home to east
    grinstead (first half was most unpleasant - mostly my mental
    state/mood I think but just didn't feel part of the bike,
    tense, nervous, etc - but the second half things improved
    vastly and I was happily whooshing down nice sweeping
    downhills etc), we were overtaken by three cars in rapid
    succession.

    One and two passed rather closer than they might, and cut
    back in fairly close. The third gave plenty of room all
    round as it passed, though did then look to be attempting to
    climb into boot of car preceding it!

    Out of the three, we were a bit suprised to note that it was
    the one that overtook with plenty of room to spare which had
    the twin ingerland mini-flags flying from the rear
    windows...

    Just goes to show that the rule doesn't hold for all
    instances :-)

    Oh, and something else to note: I now have a heart rate
    monitor that has altitude, and it seems I'm not the only one
    to have invested in a height-aware new toy, t'other half
    (unknown to me at the time) has ordered a GPS too
    (ostensibly to be able to save time spent looking at maps
    when cycling through unfamiliar areas)...

    Surely nothing to do with them that say there's no hills[1]
    in cambridgeshire (though in my case that was just a handy
    frill - I wanted to be able to download the data to the PC
    and graph my HR over a longer ride to see how it changes in
    ability to recover after hills[1] once I've been out there
    for an hour or two)... *grin*

    So far very impressed with the ability to look back over a
    ride and compare how it felt at the time with what the heart
    was doing, in a number of different places. Have already
    realised that doing this for a ride of more than 30-60 mins
    is a LOT of info to look at, but the ability to get the
    resolution on a small stretch is very helpful.

    [1] - feel free to *mentally* substitute your own
    descriptive word for a range of contours you may or may
    not have cycled, but just don't tell me my description's
    wrong, ta very much :-P

    --

    Velvet

  2. Velvet <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

    Quoted message said:

    Well, was a little surprised by this, but...

    Whilst we were out cycling on sat from home to east
    grinstead.

    Quoted message said:

    [1] - feel free to *mentally* substitute your own
    descriptive word for a range of contours you may or
    may not have cycled, but just don't tell me my
    description's wrong, ta very much :-P

    I can vouch that any gradients in the vicinity count as
    hills. Any particular reason to be in Land of the
    Scientologists? (and Mormons seventh day whatevers and New
    Life church)

  3. Velvet said:

    Surely nothing to do with them that say there's no
    hills[1] in cambridgeshire (though in my case that was
    just a handy frill - I wanted to be able to download the
    data to the PC and graph my HR over a longer ride to see
    how it changes in ability to recover after hills[1] once
    I've been out there for an hour or two)... *grin*

    Actually I want to use it to demonstrate that the height
    profiles in the Ultimate C2C Guide are a work of fiction.

  4. On 20/6/04 11:28 pm, in article
    [email hidden], "Velvet"

    Quoted message said:

    Surely nothing to do with them that say there's no
    hills[1] in cambridgeshire

    But hills is just an acronym for 'height increment leaving
    legs shattered', which then becomes relative to the legs
    concerned..

    Strangely enough, Cambridge has a hills road wheras Dundee
    doesn't (but does have a hilltown which *will* leave legs
    shattered)

    ..d

  5. MartinM said:

    Velvet <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<IcoBc.1349$6e.12120131@news-
    text.cableinet.net>...

    Quoted message said:

    Well, was a little surprised by this, but...

    Whilst we were out cycling on sat from home to east
    grinstead.

    Quoted message said:

    [1] - feel free to *mentally* substitute your own
    descriptive word for a range of contours you may or
    may not have cycled, but just don't tell me my
    description's wrong, ta very much :-P

    I can vouch that any gradients in the vicinity count as
    hills. Any particular reason to be in Land of the
    Scientologists? (and Mormons seventh day whatevers and New
    Life church)

    Other than it being relatively easy to get trains back
    towards home from, and the fact that had I started out in a
    better frame of mind we'd have gone further, and further
    from east grinstead lies forest row and the chance to drool
    over recumbents... no, not really any particular reason :-)

    Oh, apart from the fact that the other direction leads to
    busier roads and/or bigger hills, of course...

    --

    Velvet

  6. Simon Proven said:
    Velvet said:

    Surely nothing to do with them that say there's no
    hills[1] in cambridgeshire (though in my case that was
    just a handy frill - I wanted to be able to download the
    data to the PC and graph my HR over a longer ride to see
    how it changes in ability to recover after hills[1] once
    I've been out there for an hour or two)... *grin*

    Actually I want to use it to demonstrate that the height
    profiles in the Ultimate C2C Guide are a work of fiction.

    Well, yes, that too :-)

    --

    Velvet

  7. Velvet <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

    Quoted message said:
    MartinM said:

    Velvet <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<IcoBc.1349$6e.12120131@news-
    text.cableinet.net>...

    Quoted message said:

    Well, was a little surprised by this, but...

    Whilst we were out cycling on sat from home to east
    grinstead.

    Quoted message said:

    [1] - feel free to *mentally* substitute your own
    descriptive word for a range of contours you may or
    may not have cycled, but just don't tell me my
    description's wrong, ta very much :-P

    I can vouch that any gradients in the vicinity count as
    hills. Any particular reason to be in Land of the
    Scientologists? (and Mormons seventh day whatevers and
    New Life church)

    Other than it being relatively easy to get trains back
    towards home from, and the fact that had I started out in
    a better frame of mind we'd have gone further, and further
    from east grinstead lies forest row and the chance to
    drool over recumbents... no, not really any particular
    reason :-)

    A very good reason for coming back is the CTC Southern
    Challenge
    12.9.04 starts in town, see you there.

    Quoted message said:

    Oh, apart from the fact that the other direction leads to
    busier roads and/or bigger hills, of course...

    But East Grinstead has bigger hils than (that's
    enough, Ed);-)

  8. David Martin said:

    On 20/6/04 11:28 pm, in article IcoBc.1349$6e.12120131@news-
    text.cableinet.net, "Velvet"

    Quoted message said:

    Surely nothing to do with them that say there's no
    hills[1] in cambridgeshire

    But hills is just an acronym for 'height increment leaving
    legs shattered', which then becomes relative to the legs
    concerned..

    Strangely enough, Cambridge has a hills road wheras Dundee
    doesn't (but does have a hilltown which *will* leave legs
    shattered)

    Hills Road of course is flat. I think it points in the
    general direction of hills (or undulations for some of you).
    There's a short, sharpish climb if you keep going that way
    though it is not a pleasant road, turning as it does into a
    dual carriageway with a blind summit just after it does, and
    a hidden entrance just beyond the summit. I've only cycled
    over there once, coming the other way, and wouldn't use that
    route out of choice again.

    This weekend's Cambridge DA run is to Helions Bumpstead
    (where do they get the names from). This should provide a
    few more ups and downs. Though I may be taking it easy as I
    got a knock on the thigh playing football tonight, and it
    seems to have managed to get a nerve, judging by the pain
    reaching as far as my foot at times.

  9. On 21/6/04 11:03 pm, in article
    [email hidden], "Simon Proven"

    Quoted message said:

    Hills Road of course is flat. I think it points in the
    general direction of hills (or undulations for some of
    you). There's a short, sharpish climb if you keep going
    that way

    That's the kerb at the next junction.

    ..d

  10. I've seen a few messages from people here about the subject
    of England flags in cars. What is the problem exactly? I
    can't believe that anybody can be bothered about that. I
    even saw a message of somebody calling a driver a [censored] b/c
    he had a flag on the window of the car? I just don't get
    it. There's a big football tournament going on, and whether
    you like football or not (I get the impression that the
    majority of cyclists don't like football. WHY?), what's
    wrong with showing support for your team? And you know
    what's the greatest thing? Here in London I see Asian kids
    wearing the England shirt and black drivers waving the St
    George's flag on the roof of their cars. As a foreigner, I
    find that such a possitive attitude. It never occured to me
    to make a relation between the flag thing and the quality
    of the driving!

    I don't think I need to tell anyone this, but not all
    drivers showing support for England are football hooligans.
    They are just football fans, happy that England is getting
    through to the finals.

    So, good luck for tonight against Portugal.

    COME ON ENGLAND!

    --
    Vivian
    -------
    "We learned more from a three minute record than we ever learned in school".
    No Surrender

    "Velvet" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    Well, was a little surprised by this, but...

    Whilst we were out cycling on sat from home to east grinstead (first
    half was most unpleasant - mostly my mental state/mood I think but just
    didn't feel part of the bike, tense, nervous, etc - but the second half
    things improved vastly and I was happily whooshing down nice sweeping
    downhills etc), we were overtaken by three cars in rapid succession.

    One and two passed rather closer than they might, and cut back in fairly
    close. The third gave plenty of room all round as it passed, though did
    then look to be attempting to climb into boot of car preceding it!

    Out of the three, we were a bit suprised to note that it was the one
    that overtook with plenty of room to spare which had the twin ingerland
    mini-flags flying from the rear windows...

    Just goes to show that the rule doesn't hold for all instances :-)

    Oh, and something else to note: I now have a heart rate monitor that has
    altitude, and it seems I'm not the only one to have invested in a
    height-aware new toy, t'other half (unknown to me at the time) has
    ordered a GPS too (ostensibly to be able to save time spent looking at
    maps when cycling through unfamiliar areas)...

    Surely nothing to do with them that say there's no hills[1] in
    cambridgeshire (though in my case that was just a handy frill - I wanted
    to be able to download the data to the PC and graph my HR over a longer
    ride to see how it changes in ability to recover after hills[1] once
    I've been out there for an hour or two)... *grin*

    So far very impressed with the ability to look back over a ride and
    compare how it felt at the time with what the heart was doing, in a
    number of different places. Have already realised that doing this for a
    ride of more than 30-60 mins is a LOT of info to look at, but the
    ability to get the resolution on a small stretch is very helpful.

    [1] - feel free to *mentally* substitute your own descriptive word for a
    range of contours you may or may not have cycled, but just don't tell me
    my description's wrong, ta very much :-P

    --

    Velvet

  11. I suspect that most comments on the correlation
    (usually inverse) between driving skills and flags are
    tongue in cheek...

    HOWEVER,

    I did hear on the radio the other day someone phone in to
    say that the flags should be banned because they scared
    her horse!

    As a cyclist living in a rural area I've been used to
    getting less respect and consideration than horse riders
    from drivers, and am relatively happy with that because
    horses are daft, and the riders do have further to fall.
    I've often wondered whether it was also down to us being a
    nation of animal lovers, or more to do with the perception
    that a horse could do a lot more damage to the motor!

    Then again, I've seen horses spooked by such threatening
    articles as an empty black bucket in the ditch (and come
    galloping down the road and nearly flatten me on my bike as
    a result), and that, together with the lady on the radio's
    expectation that everybody should modify their behaviour to
    accommodate her mount's psychological frailties, sets me to
    thinking whether we expect too little from horse riders.
    Are their mounts fit for purpose, or even roadworthy? When
    horses were used as a genuine method of transport, I
    believe they were chosen for their temperament,
    reliability, utility etc. Nowadays the roads round here
    have horses on them which are the equine equivalent of a
    Formula One car, and about as temperamental. Now of course
    it wouldn't be legal to drive an F1 car on the road, but
    I'm not suggesting that there should be construction and
    use regs for horses, just wondering aloud whether the horse
    lobby should educate themselves and their horses better on
    the subject of road use.

    Perhaps, also, there might be a way getting the same respect
    for cyclists. Anyone for taping a fluffy kitten to the
    carrier? ;-)

    "Vivian" <[email hidden]> wrote in message -"]news:[email hidden]-
    net.net...

    Quoted message said:

    I've seen a few messages from people here about the
    subject of England


    flags

    Quoted message said:

    in cars. What is the problem exactly? I can't believe that
    anybody can be bothered about that. I even saw a message
    of somebody calling a driver a [censored] b/c he had a flag on
    the window of the car? I just don't get it. There's a big
    football tournament going on, and whether you like
    football


    or

    Quoted message said:

    not (I get the impression that the majority of cyclists
    don't like


    football.

    Quoted message said:

    WHY?), what's wrong with showing support for your team?
    And you know


    what's

    Quoted message said:

    the greatest thing? Here in London I see Asian kids
    wearing the England shirt and black drivers waving the St
    George's flag on the roof of their cars. As a foreigner, I
    find that such a possitive attitude. It never occured to
    me to make a relation between the flag thing and the
    quality of the driving!

    I don't think I need to tell anyone this, but not all
    drivers showing support for England are football
    hooligans. They are just football fans, happy that England
    is getting through to the finals.

    So, good luck for tonight against Portugal.

    COME ON ENGLAND!

    --
    Vivian
    -------
    "We learned more from a three minute record than we ever
    learned in


    school".

    Quoted message said:

    No Surrender

    "Velvet" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:IcoBc.1349$6e.12120131@news-
    text.cableinet.net...

    Quoted message said:

    Well, was a little surprised by this, but...

    Whilst we were out cycling on sat from home to east
    grinstead (first half was most unpleasant - mostly my
    mental state/mood I think but just didn't feel part of
    the bike, tense, nervous, etc - but the second half
    things improved vastly and I was happily whooshing down
    nice sweeping downhills etc), we were overtaken by three
    cars in rapid succession.

    One and two passed rather closer than they might, and
    cut back in fairly close. The third gave plenty of room
    all round as it passed, though did then look to be
    attempting to climb into boot of car preceding it!

    Out of the three, we were a bit suprised to note that it
    was the one that overtook with plenty of room to spare
    which had the twin ingerland mini-flags flying from the
    rear windows...

    Just goes to show that the rule doesn't hold for all
    instances :-)

    Oh, and something else to note: I now have a heart rate
    monitor that has altitude, and it seems I'm not the only
    one to have invested in a height-aware new toy, t'other
    half (unknown to me at the time) has ordered a GPS too
    (ostensibly to be able to save time spent looking at
    maps when cycling through unfamiliar areas)...

    Surely nothing to do with them that say there's no
    hills[1] in cambridgeshire (though in my case that was
    just a handy frill - I wanted to be able to download the
    data to the PC and graph my HR over a longer ride to see
    how it changes in ability to recover after hills[1] once
    I've been out there for an hour or two)... *grin*

    So far very impressed with the ability to look back over
    a ride and compare how it felt at the time with what the
    heart was doing, in a number of different places. Have
    already realised that doing this for a ride of more than
    30-60 mins is a LOT of info to look at, but the ability
    to get the resolution on a small stretch is very
    helpful.

    [1] - feel free to *mentally* substitute your own
    descriptive word for a range of contours you may or
    may not have cycled, but just don't tell me my
    description's wrong, ta very much :-P

    --

    Velvet

  12. Quoted message said:

    what's wrong with showing support for your team? And you
    know what's the greatest thing? Here in London I see Asian
    kids wearing the England shirt and black drivers waving
    the St George's flag on the roof of their cars.

    Quoted message said:

    I don't think I need to tell anyone this, but not all
    drivers showing support for England are football
    hooligans. They are just football fans, happy that England
    is getting through to the finals.

    Took me a couple of days to realise that the flags were up
    because of the football - thought it was something to do
    with the European elections & UKIP/BNP at first!

    However, I do think that the presence of flags on the car
    does correlate with driving style but simply because most
    football supporters will be young men. I'm not sure that
    this justifies the disparaging remarks made about the flags
    so I will brand you all looney lefties until you give me
    proper reasons for despising them.

  13. On Thu, 24 Jun 2004 11:30:58 +0000 (UTC), "Richard Pattle"
    <[email hidden]> wrote:

    [snip]

    As an aside, I have often thought of carrying a sign on the
    rear of my bike saying:

    "Slow down. Pass wide. Pretend I'm a horse".

    --
    Young Musician of the Year 2004 was a fiddle

  14. Mark Thompson said:
    Quoted message said:

    what's wrong with showing support for your team? And you
    know what's the greatest thing? Here in London I see Asian
    kids wearing the England shirt and black drivers waving
    the St George's flag on the roof of their cars.

    Quoted message said:

    I don't think I need to tell anyone this, but not all
    drivers showing support for England are football
    hooligans. They are just football fans, happy that England
    is getting through to the finals.

    Took me a couple of days to realise that the flags were up
    because of the football - thought it was something to do
    with the European elections & UKIP/BNP at first!

    However, I do think that the presence of flags on the car
    does correlate with driving style but simply because most
    football supporters will be young men. I'm not sure that
    this justifies the disparaging remarks made about the
    flags so I will brand you all looney lefties until you
    give me proper reasons for despising them.

    I have to say, a lot of the flagged cars are driven by
    idiots (I can tell from how they're being driven) - getting
    home to watch the match is NOT a valid excuse for throwing
    caution to the wind, performing dangerous overtaking
    maneuvres, exceeding all speedlimits, intimidating other
    drivers, etc.

    Then again, there are some who seem sane and normal.

    And one last weekend who was the ONLY one out of the
    three cars to pass that both had flags on it AND left
    ample room when passing, even though it did then try and
    climb in the boot of the second of the three... the other
    two had no flags and passed closer and faster than they
    really should have.

    --

    Velvet

  15. On Thu, 24 Jun 2004 11:30:58 +0000 (UTC), "Richard Pattle"
    <[email hidden]> wrote (more or less):

    Quoted message said:

    but I'm not suggesting that there should be construction
    and use regs for horses,

    Why not? We have such for dogs, nowadays, after all.

    Quoted message said:

    just wondering aloud whether the horse lobby should
    educate themselves and their horses better on the subject
    of road use.

    --
    Cheers, Euan Gawnsoft: gawnsoft.co.srgawnsoft.co.sr
    Symbian/Epoc wiki: html.dnsalias.nethtml.dnsalias.net Smalltalk
    links (harvested from comp.lang.smalltalk)
    html.dnsalias.netsmalltalk

  16. Vivian said:

    I've seen a few messages from people here about the
    subject of England flags in cars. What is the problem
    exactly? I can't believe that anybody can be bothered
    about that. I even saw a message of somebody calling a
    driver a [censored] b/c he had a flag on the window of the car?

    If the flag was obscuring his vision in any way then he
    *was* a [censored].

    Of course the comments are largely tongue in cheek, although
    observation suggests that a lot of bad drivers are
    displaying flags.

    I'm surprised they can afford the extra fuel consumption
    resulting from the drag of the flags, given the way the poor
    dears keep bleating on about the price of petrol.

    Quoted message said:

    (I get the impression that the majority of cyclists don't
    like football. WHY?)

    Possibly because it's very, very dull.

    Quoted message said:

    what's wrong with showing support for your team?

    I have a reflective cross of St George (about 3" long) stuck
    to the boom of my bike. Nothing to do with showing support
    for a football team, though.

    Quoted message said:

    As a foreigner,

    Have you got the hang of the British sense of humour yet?
    All the foreigners I've known who've spent more than a
    couple of months here have managed to pick it up.

    --
    Danny Colyer (the UK company has been laughed out of my
    reply address)
    <URL:http://www.speedy5.freeserve.co.uk/danny/> "He who
    dares not offend cannot be honest." - Thomas Paine

  17. As a horse owner (who is just regaining confidence out hacking) and a recently converted bike rider I have to say I am always totally respectful to drivers who allow plenty of room (I do admit that is not always the case with cyclists or horse riders). I do have to bemoan the "us and them" attitude though - and yes you will find the same complaints on a horse site as well. We both want to be able to ride safely on the roads, we both want access to safe off roads routes, isn't it about time we worked togther?

    At the end of the day though half a ton of live animal is going to be more temperamental than a piece of metal. I wouldn't dream of going out on the road on a horse that I didn't consider 100% bombproof but the simple fact remains is that they are unpredictable animals and may spook at the strangest things (a blackboard left on the floor for instance - don't ask me why he found that scary yet the 30 tonne truck wasn't!). No amount of training of the horse or experience of the rider is going to change that fact.

  18. Velvet <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

    Quoted message said:
    Mark Thompson said:
    Quoted message said:

    what's wrong with showing support for your team? And you
    know what's the greatest thing? Here in London I see
    Asian kids wearing the England shirt and black drivers
    waving the St George's flag on the roof of their cars.

    Quoted message said:

    I don't think I need to tell anyone this, but not all
    drivers showing support for England are football
    hooligans. They are just football fans, happy that
    England is getting through to the finals.

    Took me a couple of days to realise that the flags were
    up because of the football - thought it was something to
    do with the European elections & UKIP/BNP at first!

    However, I do think that the presence of flags on the
    car does correlate with driving style but simply because
    most football supporters will be young men. I'm not sure
    that this justifies the disparaging remarks made about
    the flags so I will brand you all looney lefties until
    you give me proper reasons for despising them.

    I have to say, a lot of the flagged cars are driven by
    idiots (I can tell from how they're being driven) -
    getting home to watch the match is NOT a valid excuse for
    throwing caution to the wind, performing dangerous
    overtaking maneuvres, exceeding all speedlimits,
    intimidating other drivers, etc.

    Then again, there are some who seem sane and normal.

    And one last weekend who was the ONLY one out of the
    three cars to pass that both had flags on it AND left
    ample room when passing, even though it did then try and
    climb in the boot of the second of the three... the other
    two had no flags and passed closer and faster than they
    really should have.

    So how are we going to spot them now? ps wanna buy a
    flag/duvet cover/blow up armchair/fridge/ ;-(

  19. UEFA have overruled the referee in the England V Portugal
    game and have subsequently allowed the previously disallowed
    goal. This means that England are now through to the next
    round, whereas Portugal are not.

    Carlsberg don't do Usenet but if they did they would
    probably post the best messages in the world.

    --
    DISCLAIMER: My email box is private property.Email which
    appears in my inbox is mine to do what I like with. Anything
    which is sent to me (whether intended or not) may, if I so
    desire, form a legal and binding contract.

  20. [email hidden] (MartinM) wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

    Quoted message said:

    Velvet <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<PjzCc.1474$J97.13638812@news-
    text.cableinet.net>...

    Quoted message said:
    Mark Thompson said:

    >what's wrong with showing support for your team? And
    >you know what's the greatest thing? Here in London I
    >see Asian kids wearing the England shirt and black
    >drivers waving the St George's flag on the roof of
    >their cars.

    >I don't think I need to tell anyone this, but not all
    >drivers showing support for England are football
    >hooligans. They are just football fans, happy that
    >England is getting through to the finals.

    Took me a couple of days to realise that the flags
    were up because of the football - thought it was
    something to do with the European elections & UKIP/BNP
    at first!

    However, I do think that the presence of flags on the
    car does correlate with driving style but simply
    because most football supporters will be young men.
    I'm not sure that this justifies the disparaging
    remarks made about the flags so I will brand you all
    looney lefties until you give me proper reasons for
    despising them.

    I have to say, a lot of the flagged cars are driven by
    idiots (I can tell from how they're being driven) -
    getting home to watch the match is NOT a valid excuse
    for throwing caution to the wind, performing dangerous
    overtaking maneuvres, exceeding all speedlimits,
    intimidating other drivers, etc.

    Then again, there are some who seem sane and normal.

    And one last weekend who was the ONLY one out of the
    three cars to pass that both had flags on it AND left
    ample room when passing, even though it did then try and
    climb in the boot of the second of the three... the
    other two had no flags and passed closer and faster than
    they really should have.

    So how are we going to spot them now? ps wanna buy a
    flag/duvet cover/blow up armchair/fridge/ ;-(

    Where can I buy Portuguese flags cheap?

    cheers

    Jacob

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